Jimquisition: Anita Sarkeesian - The Monster Gamers Created

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 . . . 21 NEXT
 

Who is she and do I have to know here? Based on the video I'd say no.

Scrustle:

TAdamson:

And it's not that she talked about the threats, it's how she did.

Yeah that's what I'm talking about. AND JIM for that matter.

"She's been accused of milking her harassment and attacks for publicity, but the gleeful irony of these criticisms is that they ignore the root of the problem: That there were harassment and attacks for her to milk for publicity."

In other words stop complaining that a feminist idealogue milked sexist attacks against her and her work in promotion and attention for her work.

If you don't like her work attack her work. Or better yet, ignore it.

Idiots attacked her. We get it. However she did exploit that attack and reversed it against anyone who criticised her, making them out to be misogynist basement dweller virgins (with pictures!) standing against women in general (because she thinks she speaks for all women). They were bad but so is she. Furthermore after having done that she asks to be taken seriously. If you wont take criticism seriously, of yourself or your work, then you dont deserve to be taken seriously. I dont agree with her but then I dont like anyone who calls themselves a feminist (that word is not about equality, if you think it is then frankly you dont really think)but thats not the point. She has no place in a discussion and she is certainly not a victim. She can still be criticised on her merit, just because she recieved unfair treatment from some doesnt mean she is exempt from critique.

Oh and I support equality, not feminism before anyone thinks im a misogynist.

So, a bunch of trolls attacked a she-troll, and now the she-troll gained a lot sympathy and is famous.

Hopefully she and the 4chan trolls go away as soon possible, and we can get some rational discussion.

Azuaron:
That's not even an argument. Being for women's rights has nothing to do with men's rights. And, by and large, men have all the damn rights anyway (note: I'm a man, a white man. I know what it's like to have all the damn rights. Kind of nauseating, really...)

Therefore, the definition someone posted a while back does not correspond to the real world consensus. That proves the single point I was trying to make.

I take the bike home with me and I'd like to thank the Academy.

Also, being a white male proves absolutely nothing. I should just move in with you because where I live my "White Male Membership Card" doesn't work.

Azuaron:
The word "feminism" sounds about as wrong as "magnetism". Remember: magnets, we don't even know how they work!

Context. Your silly argument doesn't apply here. Magnetism applies to magnetism. Feminism (definition) is about equality which doesn't relate to the general consensus.

So the name stays and the definition changes for something more literal or the word is ditched for something more equal for everyone.

maninahat:
I think feminists operate under the understanding that men's rights don't need defending

They understood wrong, then.

Also, not really a good thing to just assume things and generalize feminism. I'm pretty sure there are people that will defend anything but they are not famous. I am arguing about the etiology of the word and the people who have stained it's image.

maninahat:
as they already have all the rights and privileges the women are after.

I'm also after those privileges. I already have my manly beard, dunno what I need more to finally get what I'm entitled to.

maninahat:
Expecting a feminist to defend male rights is like complaining about how Martin Luthor King didn't spend more time looking out for white guys, or how gays aren't supportive enough of hetrosexual marriage rights. Feminists, by their very definition, are people interested in supporting women's rights. It frankly isn't their job to fight men's battles for them.

Both Martin Luther King and the original feminists lived and operated in the last century. Some things just get outdated. And for the record, MLK was not a "Blackist" and I don't remember any prominent quote of him vilifying other people. He just fought for civil rights, and his work benefited several races.

maninahat:
Feminists, by their very definition, are people interested in supporting women's rights. It frankly isn't their job to fight men's battles for them.

Which contradicts the definition someone posted a while back, helping proving my point.

Like I said, I'm just being anal about it. I usually have no problems but there's certain things that trigger "I'm going to be a prick because I know I am right". And I was - nobody actually gives cares about equality or we'd have Robocop locker rooms by now.

maninahat:
There is a difference between stripping off a woman's clothes

Context: Bayonetta had post-its or whatever promoting the game. She made the pseudo-psychology connection that removing the stickers is comparable to undressing a woman.

By the way, undressing myself before sex is fudging awkward to me. I prefer the mutual undressing and I suppose that I should be demonized for that.

Undressing women. Bad. Take the bike, I'm going home.

maninahat:
I'm assuming she would prefer you to discuss things other than her appearance though, seeing as how most already extend that courtesy to men like Jim.

You're braking at the wrong tree, I'm not the one who came up with that.

Stripes:
Oh and I support equality, not feminism before anyone thinks im a misogynist.

Sarkeesian and her posse will tear you apart for being a misogynist for saying that!

Even if you're a woman. Except if you're totally rational, then everyone will strive to ignore you.

SecretNegative:
and we can get some rational discussion.

That won't happen in the internet, ever. The rationality between two parties in internet discussions is inversely proportional.

I had read a story on the net bout someone offended by ICO, and really I tried to give it a little thought but the arguments just seemed like it was for the sake of it. I consider ICO and SotC to be masterpieces of gaming and to view them as sexist is like saying mona lisa is sexist because it's a painting of a woman, or that Avatar the Last Airbender is sexist because Aang is a male... I think she's missing the point.

As for her receiving threats... I think it is almost identical to what would happen if you walked into any local pub and said the same thing. But it is still sad that there are people who would threaten her.

Don't get me wrong either, there are tons of games where there is blatant sexism, and really she should have gone for those but it wouldn't have garnered the same sort of controversy. Targets like ICO and Bastion are harder to defend because they are games that are more about your personal interpretation of the meanings within the game.

But... I hope she's going after Mario and Peach XD I'd watch that.

ElPatron:

SecretNegative:
and we can get some rational discussion.

That won't happen in the internet, ever. The rationality between two parties in internet discussions is inversely proportional.

I just wanted to be optimistic. :(

Meh, this affects me none at all.

Females in games will always be made attractive, sexy, pleasing to the eye, etc etc because thats what sells. And if all this leads to is a female squaddie for the latest hash out of brown grey shooter 5, who really cares.. because if its lucky thats the most impact this will have on anything.

When did this escalate to such an extent?

I mean, I had seen her Kickstarter, I had commented on it (Nothing to do with the topic of her videos. I just thought it was strange and unsound in an investment perspective that something like that should quote such a production cost, let alone get excess money for it), I had checked out some of her previous videos and that was that.

What she has published so far is a bit uninteresting and biased (not in an aggressive way, but more in a "you are making a stupid and invalid, bloated argument" way).

The topic seemed interesting.

Her execution so far... not so much.

And then, I just left it at that and never gave her much thought until watching this episode of Kickstarter.

How did we get to a point where she is the center of the internet-verse and more importantly... why?

ElPatron:

Azuaron:
That's not even an argument. Being for women's rights has nothing to do with men's rights. And, by and large, men have all the damn rights anyway (note: I'm a man, a white man. I know what it's like to have all the damn rights. Kind of nauseating, really...)

Therefore, the definition someone posted a while back does not correspond to the real world consensus. That proves the single point I was trying to make.

I take the bike home with me and I'd like to thank the Academy.

Also, being a white male proves absolutely nothing. I should just move in with you because where I live my "White Male Membership Card" doesn't work.

Azuaron:
The word "feminism" sounds about as wrong as "magnetism". Remember: magnets, we don't even know how they work!

Context. Your silly argument doesn't apply here. Magnetism applies to magnetism. Feminism (definition) is about equality which doesn't relate to the general consensus.

So the name stays and the definition changes for something more literal or the word is ditched for something more equal for everyone.

Oh! Somewhere along the line I stopped arguing with the silly guy who thought all "-isms" where bad like racism, and someone reasonable came along.

The definition "someone" posted a while back was posted by me, and it still applies. In fact, let's take a look at what I said:

Azuaron:
feminism: A social theory or political movement supporting the equality of both sexes in all aspects of public and private life; specifically, a theory or movement that argues that legal and social restrictions on females must be removed in order to bring about such equality.

Get that? Feminism is for the equality of the sexes.

In particular, recognizing that restrictions are explicitly placed upon women, both legally and socially, feminists want to remove said restrictions. (FREEEEEEDOOOOMMMMMMMMM)

The real world consensus is the same as the definition: unbalanced restrictions are placed upon women, and feminists believe those restrictions should be removed. In this way, equality between the sexes can be achieved. Similarly (as maninahat noted), Martin Luther King, Jr. fought for restrictions upon blacks to be removed so that they could have equal rights, he did not fight for restrictions upon whites to be removed.

Additionally:

ElPatron:

maninahat:
Feminists, by their very definition, are people interested in supporting women's rights. It frankly isn't their job to fight men's battles for them.

Which contradicts the definition someone posted a while back, helping proving my point.

That doesn't contradict the earlier definition: "...[feminism] argues that legal and social restrictions on females must be removed in order to bring about such equality."

i had never heard of this person until this video.

*considers course of options*

*decides to play games*

jokulhaups:
Jim,
What's the game at 5:00?

A very good question, to which I would like to know the answer.

DioWallachia:

daibakuha:

DioWallachia:

She spammed 4Chan with her video, she DELIVERATELY seek out the worst of the worst to make her point. That is like gathering violent and unstable people to a survey and test if videogames make more violent people, and surpricinly enough, the test was positive. Well shiiiiiiiiiet, i wonder if using NON normal people for a test has something to do with it??? naaaaah, must be my imagination.

I would love to see if there is any evidence to actually support this. You do realize people lie on the internet? Especially on 4chan where it's very easy to make something up and have it be believed.

Here, have 5 videos that have been already shown before in this kind of discussions: (remember that as Jim said, she was a nobody before the incident of "Tropes Vs Games: Kickstarter Scam", so i highly doubt that the trolls were just waiting to post the dammed video ASAP she posted it on Youtube, because she was a nobody in the Internet)

Instigative Journalism:

Bill The Man From Kentucky:

You see, here's the thing, some dudes talking over still images on youtube aren't accurate sources of information. And I asked you to prove she spammed her videos on 4chan, which hasn't been done yet.

If you call this investigative journalism, I'd hate to see what you would call actual journalism

Uhm guys, Anita Sarkeesian is indeed _not_ Martin Luther King, just saying. Please stop comparing those two. One fought against real oppression, the other one has "conversations with pop culture"

I for me followed the disscussion but never really participated, since I always felt like people were saying what I wanted to say better.

Only thing I did was asking her on Twitter why she is still collecting donnations right on her site.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A2Dnu2TCAAE8yK1.png

So yeah, I don't like her, I am agreeing with some of her points though and I would like to see a discussion about sexism, not only in games, but in general.
My problem is just that I don't see her being the right one to lead that discussion, seeing how she deletes comments on all videos but her kickstarter video (where she stopped approving comments after they didn't "proved her right" (which they really didn't: sexist people =/= sexist games)
I don't like that she pulls that "only trolls are against me" card and puts herself into an echochamber.

DJ_Bunce:

jokulhaups:
Jim,
What's the game at 5:00?

A very good question, to which I would like to know the answer.

It's Gravity Rush for the PS Vita. Be warned though, Sarkeesian says the protagonist shouldn't be wearing high heels. Please kill me.

Wait, so why does the debate become about disliking women or Sarkeesian herself just because some other people said some awful things? I understand that she was trolled and used the trolls to get people on her side.

But since I didn't troll her, and Jim Sterling didn't troll her, why would our opinions be invalid just because of the trolling? That doesn't follow for me. I say, criticize and discuss away. It don't think that it aligns you with the trolls in anyone's mind.

You don't even have to bring up the trolls. Just make your own arguments and observations. Check over them to make sure you omitted any rape threats and voila, you have a criticism that is unaffected by the antics of trolls!

ccdohl:
Wait, so why does the debate become about disliking women or Sarkeesian herself just because some other people said some awful things? I understand that she was trolled and used the trolls to get people on her side.

But since I didn't troll her, and Jim Sterling didn't troll her, why would our opinions be invalid just because of the trolling? That doesn't follow for me. I say, criticize and discuss away. It don't think that it aligns you with the trolls in anyone's mind.

You don't even have to bring up the trolls. Just make your own arguments and observations. Check over them to make sure you omitted any rape threats and voila, you have a criticism that is unaffected by the antics of trolls!

That's nice and all but I think you are forgetting your opinion is insignificant in the broader scale of things.

The video is true to a level over 9000. She wouldn't have garnered as much attention if no one GAVE IT TO HER. Namely if no gave her negative, uncalled for attention. I don't care much for AS because...well...she's just whiny and upset. Upset at the world for any reason she can find, that odds are doesn't exist where she's looking and thinks the world owes her better, when in fact the world owes no one a single thing. From what I've seen so far in her videos that is. She hasn't matured much as far as her thought process on the subject goes.

But to instigate her and demonize her? It kind of reinforces my thoughts that internet trolls = incredibly stupid.

Now while I have no idea what this Anita Sarkeesian is doing, did you really just say "hung by her own petard" or did I misunderstand that? A petard is a type of bomb, you get blown up by it, not hung.

KDR_11k:
Now while I have no idea what this Anita Sarkeesian is doing, did you really just say "hung by her own petard" or did I misunderstand that? A petard is a type of bomb, you get blown up by it, not hung.

The usualy terminology is hoisted by her own petard, it's just a saying. Probably shakespeare.

On topic, i've heard around here that she/her followers/someone spammed the hell out of Reddit about the kickstarter. Did that happen after most of the fame and trolling or was that the cause? Just wondering.

Hollyday:

@Scrustle and @Helmholtz Watson - could you explain why you believe this, because I'd like to know where you're coming from with this. I know you might think I'm naive, but I really don't think she's a troll - she's just a woman trying to make some internet videos.

Well I didn't really say much about here but..... I'm not very sympathetic to a person that takes a baseball bat to a hornets nest(4chan) and bashes it repeatedly. 4Chan are not nice or good people, of that I have no doubt. However, spamming 4chan and using the negative reaction to garner sympathy isn't a very classy thing to do.

Azuaron:

The definition "someone" posted a while back was posted by me, and it still applies. In fact, let's take a look at what I said:

Azuaron:
feminism: A social theory or political movement supporting the equality of both sexes in all aspects of public and private life; specifically, a theory or movement that argues that legal and social restrictions on females must be removed in order to bring about such equality.

Get that? Feminism is for the equality of the sexes.

In particular, recognizing that restrictions are explicitly placed upon women, both legally and socially, feminists want to remove said restrictions. (FREEEEEEDOOOOMMMMMMMMM)

The real world consensus is the same as the definition: unbalanced restrictions are placed upon women, and feminists believe those restrictions should be removed. In this way, equality between the sexes can be achieved. Similarly (as maninahat noted), Martin Luther King, Jr. fought for restrictions upon blacks to be removed so that they could have equal rights, he did not fight for restrictions upon whites to be removed.

Here's a few gender imbalances that are in favour of women.

Men often receive longer prison sentences based solely on the fact they are male.
Women are much more likely to win custody of children.
Female on male violence is not taken seriously while male on female violence is taken extremely seriously.
Male rape is trivialised and is often portrayed as humorous, not the immensely traumatic act that it actually is.
Men are expected to fight and die in wars and can be legally drafted in many countries when women aren't.
The mere accusation of rape can ruin a man's life, even if he is found innocent. Additionally, women can, in certain situations, decide whether or not sex was rape including if she was intoxicated. Being found guilty of a false rape claim is often punished extremely lightly and there are several instances of where the women is let off altogether.

http://www.itv.com/news/border/story/2012-04-24/false-rape-claim/
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9700226.Student_spared_jail_for_false_rape_claim/
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2855143/Compensation-claim-rape-liar-Sarah-Jane-Hilliard-avoids-prison-sentence.html

ShirowShirow:
If she had blocked the comments right away, people would just have called her a coward who can't take criticism. I think letting them go on for a bit to show people exactly what was happening before shutting them down (And giving everyone a timedate beforehand) before flame wars got out of hand was a really good move.

She blocks and moderates comments on all of her other videos already, so I guess she's earned her "coward" title long before this. Her Kickstarter YouTube video was the only one where she let comments go free reign. And this was AFTER she spammed 4chan with links to the video and her Kickstarter page. Not only is she a coward, but also manipulative.

Father Time:
Oh and Yahtzee's extra punctuation columns (which I'm betting you're getting it from) aren't nearly as popular as Sarkesian became, so less people read it and the criticism of Sarkesian gets made a lot more times than the criticisms of Yahtzee because of it.

Actually, I got it from his video on Shadow of the Colossus. He talks about Team ICO's views of gender politics in both ICO and SotC (and draws a picture of the female character in a dress, chained to a kitchen).

Father Time:
Yahtzee isn't condescending to gaming as an art form or as a hobby, when he exaggerates he does so for comedy and while he does criticize gaming he never acts like it's a worthless den of immaturity.

I have not yet watched any of her videos, having been given no good reason to do so. However, from a cursory glance over her Kickstarter, she seems to like video games, but dislike their portrayal of women, and the gamers who perpetuate those issues.

Maybe she's different in her actual videos. I don't know. Her Kickstarter talks about "redesigning" a few popular female characters in gaming, and that sounds like a positive, creative idea to me.

And anyway, it doesn't matter either way - the point is that when Yahtzee said it, people laughed. When she said it, her LIFE was threatened. Even if he was saying it for a laugh (and he says everything for a laugh, but that doesn't make any of what he says less true) and she was saying it out of spite, that still doesn't justify the extremely different reactions. Reacting differently to the same comment said by people of differing genders is the definition of sexism.

Every gamer who wrote her hate-mail or posted non-intellectual attacks on her is only proving her point. This whole affair has made me agree MORE with her - I honestly didn't believe the gaming community was this bad. She has proven that it is.

I continue to question and critique her choices in games to attack - ICO is a feminist work (it satirizes sexism in gaming) and she missed that fact, which to my mind means she needs to take a class or two on literary theory before she starts pointing fingers at games that agree with her. But, even if she's wrong about individual games, she is apparently right about the gaming community at large.

So congrats Ms. Sarkessian. You've killed a little more of my idealism. If your Kickstarter was still active, I'd give you a dollar (and recommend a class on literary theory so you stop attacking feminist games that are too subtle for you to understand).

I don't know Jim, people have done pretty good articles and videos critiquing Anita in a mature way without too much problem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpFk5F-S_hI

This 2 part video done by Instig8iveJournalism should show that it can be done...

:P

bunji:
I was making an example or, if you feel vicious, making a strawman point. The thing I wanted to get across wasn't that it was racist; it was that the idea that she got the hate she recieved only because she was female has about as much empirical evidence that she got it because she has dark hair. I parroted your line to show how easy it was to replace gender with anything else.

If you do that, then you missed my point. Yes, you can replace the words and the sentence still makes sense... grammatically. Not in context. You can say that it was because she has dark hair, but saying so is incorrect - it is false information that is clearly not true. The reason she was attacked is because she is a woman and self-proclaimed feminist. To say otherwise is to ignore the facts.

If "man says X, people laugh; woman says X, gets death threats" doesn't prove sexism, then I don't know what you expect me to do. That is as simple as the argument can get.

bunji:
Listen; you are a smart guy

Since you bring it up - not a guy. I'm a woman. And a feminist. And, as it happens, a gamer.

bunji:
This kind of person isn't fit for having this debate. She isn't looking for a debate. She want's to climb onto the biggest soapbox in the village and yell that men are pigs untill she croaks. An intellectual critique would fall on deaf ears, not only hers but her fans aswell.

It sounds like she isn't the only one on a soapbox.

She deserves a critique because she missed that ICO is a feminist game. It is on her side - it is critiquing the same thing she is. When you attack an ally because that ally is too subtle for you to understand, then you need a better literary education.

But, as noted, she has succeed in convincing me of one thing - the gaming community is worse that I realized. And not just frat-boys and highschool kids who play games but don't participate in the community - actual gamers who frequent sights like the Escapist. Every person who dismisses her, who attacks her rather than critiquing her work, or who refuses to debate her because she's 'just a feminist on a soapbox' is proving her point.

She's right. It makes me cry, because I love gaming and gamers, but... fuck. She's right. I thought the gaming community was better than this, but apparently... I was wrong.

Bara_no_Hime:

But, as noted, she has succeed in convincing me of one thing - the gaming community is worse that I realized. And not just frat-boys and highschool kids who play games but don't participate in the community - actual gamers who frequent sights like the Escapist. Every person who dismisses her, who attacks her rather than critiquing her work, or who refuses to debate her because she's 'just a feminist on a soapbox' is proving her point.

She's right. It makes me cry, because I love gaming and gamers, but... fuck. She's right. I thought the gaming community was better than this, but apparently... I was wrong.

I feel somewhat the same.

I do not agree with her that the gaming industry is sexist, but the gaming community is another matter entirely. Although having said that, I do not think it is anything exclusive to gaming, it just so happens that we who like games obviously care more about it than other 'communities'.

There are a few things in general I can agree with her about. But, for the most part, if people actually bothered to put some thought into what Anita was saying, they'd realize that a lot of it is just opinionated crap full of holes. As has already been pointed out in this thread, she doesn't actually think her arguments through, which is ironic considering how much time she puts into the videos themselves. Yeah, her videos are well made, and she comes across as well-spoken, but that doesn't mean what she is saying has much substance behind it.

Unfortunately the few idiots drown out the legitimate criticisms made. The thing is there are idiots on the other side too. They are the sad, insecure internet feminists who don't bother to think critically but rather simply agree with other internet feminists like a bunch of sheep.

wait what did i miss?
i mean ive heard of that lass once and that was it she was gonna do a video siries about women in games for what i remember
but why are people accusing her in? why is she hated like that?
i mean i agree that there is an issue to solve with sexism in video games... (dont know her exact position but i guess ill look into that now)
and i know some people dissagree and are afraid that the "feminazis" are going to ruin their games but... threatening to rape her?! what the fuck did she said that made people and im assuming its not just one person cause it wouldve been much quieter if it was, do something so hatefull and offensive?!!

Legion:
I feel somewhat the same.
I do not agree with her that the gaming industry is sexist, but the gaming community is another matter entirely. Although having said that, I do not think it is anything exclusive to gaming, it just so happens that we who like games obviously care more about it than other 'communities'.

Well, the gaming industry is pandering. That's not the same thing as actually being sexist, but it often amounts to almost the same thing. Then again, that says more about the audience that's being pandered to than the company doing the pandering. The company is just trying to make money - to give the audience what they want. I thought they were under-estimating the average gamer.

I pointed this out whent he whole mess was heating up but it deserves some repeating with 202-20 hindsight. After watching a few of Anita Sarkeesian's earlier videos I have to say she is surely the WORST person to bring attention to what in some quarters is a problem.

First, her "research" is at best laughable when it is not totally pathetic. For example, her portrayal of Captain Janeway as a *favorable* female lead character in her "The Smurfette Principle" shows she doesn't do anything even resembling research. Depending on the episode, Janeway is either portrayed as crazier then Captain Garth and Janice Lester combined while being dumber then John Gill of TOS (a point reviewer SF Debris loves to bring up again and again) or Captain Mary Sue.

Second, there is the issue the Over Thinker brought up way back in "Mississippi Pwning 2" (E23)-the brass tax that encourages these tropes because most gamers are young white males. Then you have the whole "Video Games Come From Japan" problem with all -that- entails.

Finally, these first two points would not be so bad if she didn't have the up for approval option on for nearly all her videos. That option allows her to stack the deck by preventing any intelligent opposing views from ever showing up regarding her videos.

From what I understand her video kickstarter really didn't noticed until references to it suddenly (and I might add conveniently) showed up on 4chan. Taking a normal person and adding in anonymity and a guaranteed audience is bad enough but 4chan dials that mess up to about 12.

It was the internet equivalent of waving a red flag in front of a bull while repeatably stabbing a hornet's nest with a sharp stick. Actually, as I think about it it was more on the order of taking a powerkeg, throwing oil on it, shoving the whole thing in a methane and dynamite filled room, and then asking for a match to light a candle in the room.

I use that second analogy because I believe in the long term this will likely have the OPPOSITE effect she intended. The ERA and the message behind it was effectively killed by the extremists who suggested insane things like rename "policeman" to "policeperson" and "manhole cover" to "personhole cover". Rational people took one look at that extreme nonsense and wanted nothing to do with it or anything it supported (ie the ERA).

Anita Sarkeesian's videos are too bias to be taken seriously by all but the most uninformed people and I suspect that this whole thing will implode and whatever good message there was will get lost in the shuffle.

Thanks God for you, Jim!
I was telling this for years to internet people
READ AND FUCKING REMEMBER!!!
Ignorance is our strongest weapon against such people as Anita.
It is our BFG9000/10K, our Ion Cannon and our Excalibur combined!
Stop attacking the flame atronach with fireballs for fucks sake!
Can't you see that such approach makes it only stronger?

P.S. On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some part of those hateful comments were made on Anitas behalf.
P.P.S. And that's it, nobody ever mention her again, I hope this is the last time I hear/read about this zombie >:(

Bara_no_Hime:

Legion:
I feel somewhat the same.
I do not agree with her that the gaming industry is sexist, but the gaming community is another matter entirely. Although having said that, I do not think it is anything exclusive to gaming, it just so happens that we who like games obviously care more about it than other 'communities'.

Well, the gaming industry is pandering. That's not the same thing as actually being sexist, but it often amounts to almost the same thing. Then again, that says more about the audience that's being pandered to than the company doing the pandering. The company is just trying to make money - to give the audience what they want. I thought they were under-estimating the average gamer.

You hit the nail on the head with what I meant, which I am glad. The industry is indeed just pandering to the gamers, and that is why things like Dead or Alive (I think that's the one with jiggle physics?) still exist. It's kind of sad, and it certainly doesn't help outsiders take games seriously, and I am sure it will sometimes make females uncomfortable, but it isn't sexist (at least, I do not believe it is).

That said, I do not see it as a large issue, mainly because I can safely ignore those idiotic games and focus only on the ones that I think will be worth my time. If people really want to buy the crap they make simply because "Sex sells" I can just roll my eyes at them and move on.

As for underestimating the "average" gamer, I am not sure I entirely agree that those kind of games are really popular enough to represent the average gamer, yes they have enough popularity to justify companies continuing to make it, but they are not the kind of game that are really discussed far and wide by gamers in general.

Not a perfect example, but I do not actually know anybody who owns games such as Dead or Alive, or any other game where women are basically just there to ogle at. Not a single person.

If gaming got to the point where those kind of games were the most popular, the most talked about and the most common, then I'd completely agree that it's an issue, but right now they are the equivalent of the crappy spoof films like 'Date Movie', and 'Meet The Spartans', yes they exist and people will go and see them, but they are far from indicative of gaming in general.

Jim is brushing off all those who are "critiquing her work rather than insulting her" as homophobes, haters and sexists. I still think her perception of most female characters in video games is off. I don't think she's contributing to feminism by that video game. Wanna help feminists? How about protesting the ban on abortion and regulating uterus? Call for equal pay? Or protest anything real? Or even use video games with blatant and clear sexism as an example? The matter of whether a video game has sexist tones or offensive is subjective and I think it's unintentional 99% of the time. I don't think people were angry at her because she's a woman who started a fund for her project, I think it's because her perception is extremely off when it comes to women in games specially the examples she used in her project as Samus. That what angered people the most. Again, let us not dismiss anyone who does't agree with her as a hater or sexist or immature or "trying to silence a woman". That's not the case at all Jim.

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 . . . 21 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here