Jimquisition: Crying Through The Laughs

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what about Mass Effect 3? It was really sad when Thane died (or at least it was for me).

It was sad because it was a poorly written, terrible scene.
It didn't matter if you romanced thane or how nice you were to him, you get the same generic prayer (that actually makes zero sense in the context).
Mordin dying, now THAT was something.

Whats the game where the pig fried its self?




And now some people might not get to feel those awful moments, since you blurted that out unspoilered, good job.

1) The game has been out for almost a year.
2) This entire episode and thread are about the sad moments in games, so spoilers should be expected.
3) Several of the deaths I mentioned do not always happen.
4) Despite all of this, I'll still spoiler it, just for you.

1) 6 months and a bit actually, and I could ruin Spec Ops the line by saying it's been out for a whole [arbitrary date here].
2) Jim doesn't do spoilers that not everyone knows about, and by that I mean have entered it-was-his-sled level of knowledge like Aerith's death, and didn't actually mention ME3. By that logic, I'm not allowed to enter anything discussing sad moments unless I've seen everything that might have a sad in it ever.
3) True, but the first 2 happen if they are alive, or if some very specific circumstances are met. But despite all that
4) is true, so thank you :>

Good to see you are still capable of putting more effort into something than just copy pasting facebook comments and calling it news Jim.

They're letting Elton John into Mississippi, really. Maybe they think it's a lynching.

I guess I'm te opposite to most people when it comes to FFX. I thought Tidus was reasonable in his whining. I mean, he was forced out New York City and sent to Afghanistan (Moving from a culturally and technologically advanced city to a place obsessed with religion and shuns technoogy).

Daddy issues? It's one thing having a horrible dad, but having a dad you hate and everyone else glorifies? Ghandi's son committed suicide, you know.

I also think Auron is a boring, flat character.

That applies to people too. There are a few out there that they are always so gloomy that when something "bad" happens to them, like they lost their job, or flunked school, etc is difficult to feel bad for them.

That is not to say that one is not empathetic; in a true "tragedy" I am there for them... but I just try to avoid being sucked into their misery.

I definitely agree with this. Any amount of brevity, regardless of how tragic the situation, can help nail the emotion home a lot better and make the tragic parts stand out and work better.

Actually, this could work in reverse too if done correctly. Take a look at Portal. This has some very dark imagery, yet comes off as very lighthearted and not to be taken too seriously. The pitch-black humor (as Yahtzee calls it) really helps bring the humor home while still retaining a sort of eerie feel.

Butthead of "Beavis and Butthead" said it best: "You've got to have stuff that sucks to have stuff that's cool."

Soviet Heavy:

Tragedy is when Aerith cuts her finger
Comedy is when Lighting falls into an open sewer and dies.

Mel Brooks directing Final Fantasy? I like it.

I am the Gamemaster, and I approve this idea. In fact, I am picturing such a game...and it is AWESOME!!!

Throughout the whole thing I couldn't help but think about Chibi-Robo. The game is overall very happy, but when its sad it really hits hard. Yet, I've always loved how the game never wallowed in its dark themes, but used them to instead to accent the main moral, spread the happiness.

I am really glad that FFXI is featured in this video. Not only is it one of the most interesting and sprawling story lines in the series, it is also the most underrated FF game. Garnet losing her bloated, power-hungry mother is tragic, Vivi's feelings toward death mirror our own (and he is missing from the end sequence/or so it seems), and Zidane goes through a wash of emotions.
Is it the art style that puts people off?

Nice to see you this weekend, Jim. Thank (insert deity of choice)for you.

I'm probably not the first to mention this.. and i'm expecting the trollfire...


i'm guessing the US version of FFVII had a different spelling for Aeris' name... threw me for about half a second... then i couldn't help but think "did he just mispronounce that? surely not."

well.. i suppose it's not the only change square made when they published it on both sides of the pond.

I'm probably not the first to mention this.. and i'm expecting the trollfire...


i'm guessing the US version of FFVII had a different spelling for Aeris' name... threw me for about half a second... then i couldn't help but think "did he just mispronounce that? surely not."

well.. i suppose it's not the only change square made when they published it on both sides of the pond.

The original US version of FFVII was spelled Aeris, but in all the followup material (Advent children, Crisis Core, all the other sequel stuff) that it was "corrected" to be "Aerith" to be a more accurate translation of the Japanese name.

Personally, I still resent the change. Aeris was perfectly fine to me.

Final Fantasy 9 was my all-time favorite in the Final Fantasy series. The ending always makes me tear up to a certain degree because of how overwhelmingly happy the ending of the game is. Final Fantasy 6 was another one that had happy, slappy moments interspersed between extreme sadness (fucking Doom Train) but I don't think that counts as much since it came out on the Super Nintendo: a console in which half of the player characters were neon personifications of happiness.

Dammit Jim, I fucking love you and your videos! We all know you surpass us Jim in every way Jim: THANK GAWD...FOR YOU.

I think contrast is really what's important. A tragic moment in an otherwise happy game will have a lot of impact, but so will a moment of happiness or hope in an otherwise depressing world.

The Tall Nerd:
ehh, i find when people make this argument against characters like cloud or Leon, the expect them to be happy. why? clouds life is complete shite literally from sun up to down shite mentally scarred shite. why would they be happy, i understand tidus or zadane they never had to be a super soldier engineered for battle having to work for a company that is destroying the planet then having them lie to you and having your girlfriend killed, or under a beyond corrupt murderous government. oh im sorry should they smile should they be jokey, no one asks this of Bruce Wayne or wolverine.why not be happy though all that melancholy that they have the moral compass to do the right thing. and atleast those two dudes have something to do at the end of the day , alot of these characters are left as misplaced murderers in a world that doesn't need them anymore

I understand jims point lightning was a rather good one, but why expect happiness from character who's life is shit. If they do get a bit nicer,like for example wolverine, its nice but you don't expect it and nice but it aint necessarily going to happen to everyone, not everyone who goes though shite just gets happy or even gets better, thats life sometimes people just dont get better. i understand happier stories, but the final fantasy examples were kinda... eh. i could have though of better ones, ryu hayabusa, riku (in the begging of kingdom hearts) and many others.

People call these characters whiny but let me ask you lets take a notoriously dark back story, if you were made as a weapon of mass destruction, and your existence had gotten everyone you had grown to love killed, you were frozen and then revived decided to give everyone a benefit of the doubt and do the right thing for a world who dealt you a bad card, and then though the incompetence of another who is supposed to help you , you almost die and loose your memory just have it brought back by someone who had a hand in your creation showing you how vile your insides actually are, then finding out that being is basically your father, and then having to kill him.

no one, no effing one, would be smiling , his life is a pile of shite on shite wheat and to expect a happy moment is completely insane, showing your complete misunderstanding of the character. they don't have to be happy but learning to be better people is what is important, or descention into madness if that's your thing.

aside from all that jim has a point and the video was funny

I have to disagree with you. A person can not be sad without also, at one point, being happy. It is impossible to always be any one emotion, no matter that person's background.

Lost Odyssey, Shadow Hearts, and Final Fantasy IX are all brilliant examples of great RPGs that told emotional stories, filled with humor, sadness, fear, despair, anger, warmth, love, and resolution.

That's one of the reasons I despise FF13. Lightning is such a bland character (as are most of them in the game), and I'm baffled she's the "poster girl" for the game (and 13 series). She only can respond with violence and scowls, like that abomination of a Wonder Woman TV pilot. It tries so hard to make her "strong" that it makes her utterly unlikable.

Even Cloud in FF7 was a lot of fun; snowboarding, going on carnival dates, crossdressing as a woman... And then Square emo'ed him up in Advent Children, where he complains about how awful his life is (remember, he lives with TIFA) and they had to dedicate an entire song at the end called "Cloud smiles" to the time he actually does smile. When SMILING is a big deal, I think the character and creators need to lighten up. A lot.

Most other gamers need to get some better standards then. Everyone talks about how amazing and mature Heavy Rain is when the only test of maturity it passes is if you're able to get through the first hour without writhing on the floor whining "I'm board!"
Which I was not able to do.
R* does this too (lately) where there's always some "tragedy" at the climax that I really couldn't care less about.

I think that they just need to be a bit more selective about what games need all that melodrama.

What game do I think does it right? Katamari Damacy: I'm having a great time but begin to cry when I realize all the kittens and schoolchildren I rolled up will be immolated in order to create a new star. I hope the people who live under that star appreciate all the sacrifices that were made.

This is a major reason I prefer Persona 4's story and characters over that of 3.

I agree, and I enjoyed both games.

And don't get people started on XII...

Actually, I don't know if anyone showed any emotion in XII. It was a whole lot of "okay, well, lets do this now." In that game, the only person I felt anything towards was Judge Gabranth.

FF9 is by far the most tragic game I've seen to date. The game's a masterpiece, on so many levels. You're perfectly right Jim, but don't limit yourself to the main characters. Remember that what pushes you to love, cheer and cry for the characters is also the slow unveiling of the gloomy truth about Gaia's history and fate. There's nothing more heartbreaking than understanding the pathetic and ultimately doomed struggle for survival of the lighthearted and innocent inhabitants (including the main characters).

After Atomos destroys Linblum, what was cute becomes tragic. You can never look at this cartoony world in the same way. You begin to love it and you begin to share the will to protect it. Think Aeris being killed over and over again. And the more the characters resist the ongoing destruction, the more tragic they become. It's not just dotted moments, it's a continuous spiral. That's why it's so memorable. By the end you start to shed tears in the midst of that funny music, everytime Vivi says something. Heck, I can't even see a picture of Vivi without "getting something in my eye".

But tragic is not the same thing as depressing. FF9 is the type of story that makes you smile while your eyes tear up. FF9 sometimes make me think about "La vita e bella". The first time you see it, you laugh at first, you cry at the end. The second time you see it, you smile and cry from the very first joke.

"Oh, there's something after the credits! Wonder what it will be? *beat* OH DAMMIT WHY??" Gotta love a game that knows how to use emotions and juxtaposition of happy and tragedy for greatest effect.

Hey Jim, I just want to Note, that You're analyzing Final Fantasy XIII Backwards...

Yeah, Final Fantasy wasn't about Tragedy... it was about finding hope where there is none. (And then consequently turning your back on destiny, only to sneak up behind it and stab it in the back).

FFXIII has a general atmosphere of despair, as you put it, but that makes it so much better when everybody is happy at the end... or in the extremely minor moments of levity in the lead up.

Now I'm not going to say it was done perfectly, not by a long shot (Several hours where nothing contributes to anything)...

But I am trying to illustrate that the flip-side of what you're saying is probably also true.

Lufia/Estpolis... there was a game series that knew tragedy.

Illusion of Gaia did a pretty good job of it too, yes.

FFIX? I guess you had to be more invested than I was.

Oh yeah... Final Fantasy Tactics, also (the PS1/PSP game, not Advance, you cretins). That one had rollercoaster timing for its happy/sad flip-flops. Gut-wrenching, really.


Was I the only one who was annoyed with Titus for being a whiny little prick? That he deserved all his hopes and dreams being blown to bits for being a self important whiny water polo celebrity? Just me? Oi....

You're not alone. Tidus is the FF hero I hate the most. Any sense of tragedy was completely lost to me when it came to him. Half of the time it felt like he was complaining about everything. Yeah he was an upbeat character like Zidane, but I found Zidane to be FAR more endearing and likable in the long run. However, I could sympathize and feel for Yuna's tragedy much for what Jim had stated. Not once did Yuna complain about her pilgrimage and always focused on keeping everyone's spirits up, so seeing her break down before Tidus decides to make out with her really tugged at my heart strings. The tragedy worked for her, just not for him.

Tidus wasn't so bad, perhaps he wasn't the best character but he certainly was not the worst, without tidus would there have been any of those quiet, slightly unsettling moments where his ignorance reminds the group of the pilgramage's ultimate goal? that he is so upbeat while everyone else tries to put on a brave face works really well as a part of the story and it is perhaps made better by the fact that on our first playthrough we are as clueless as Tidus himself, the moment of revelation has a decent payoff because suddenly all nagging thoughts we and perhaps he had up until that point finally make sense.

Id really like to be origional and come up with a character to dislike which Jim did not bring up in this video but because you can choose to ignore Quinna for much of the game and since s/he is not a major character they can get away with not being overly fleshed out im going to have to call Squall out on his angst as well, I can't really blame his character alone for this but I really struggled to get into the meat of that game.

Insightful and entertaining as ever, Jim. Well done.

Another game that nails the use of comedy to create good tragedy later is Persona 4. There are entire sequences that are completely useless to the main plot, but get you to care about the characters through comedy, like the field trips, and the stay at the inn, and tons of other bits that would take forever to list. Then, when a certain.....thing....happens near the end, it is AGONIZING in how sad it is because you've seen all of these characters in a number of funny and happy moments together.

Good to see you are still capable of putting more effort into something than just copy pasting facebook comments and calling it news Jim.

Only you are calling it news. I'm calling it fun.

Get it right at least. <3


Also, thank God for you, Jim, for bringing in (ever so shortly) Mother 3 which is pretty much a perfect example of your thesis so far.
Another game everyone should've played but no one did :C
Sad sad sad :c

Whats the game where the pig fried its self?

Illusion of Gaia for SNES - I recently replayed it after beating it when I was like 11 or 12, and I don't remember getting chills from any scenes from it when I was younger. The entire 2nd half of the game (From Angel Village) sets a different pace than the first half.

Anyone else love the fact Jim tags himself twice below the video?

And that laugh... It haunts my dreams.

I liked that he showed Heavy Rain. The first couple of chapters on that game added so much gravitas to everything that comes later because of the effect Jim mentions. If the game started after his family was crumbling apart, he would have been yet another mopey protagonist, but his tragedy is more effective because we get to see him when he had a happy family.

I'd post a video of laughter for the end, but I don't need to, you already did it.

I feel like you should have talked about Heavy Rain a bit, since you used it a lot in your video (clips of it at least). People complained about how long and drawn out the opening is, and it does get tedious, but at the same time, one could argue that it's setting up the tragedy...a bit TOO well, but compare the set of the house of the opening, and when we see Ethan again next. The colors around, the mood, the music, I even think it was raining. The way he looks, you feel for him, and understand the character THAT much more based on the juxtaposition of the two Ethans, and it makes scenes like the Lizard challenge THAT much more intense.

Was I the only one who was annoyed with Titus for being a whiny little prick? That he deserved all his hopes and dreams being blown to bits for being a self important whiny water polo celebrity? Just me? Oi....

He wasn't so bad. I liked that he was (as we) a pilgrim in a strange land, it makes discovering stuff about the world a lot more dynamic when it justifies the exposition.
And, more to the point, not all characters need to be austere and gritty badass (that's what Auron is for)...

I thought the end of Bastion was emotional because it was bitter-sweet.

It was sad because you had two choices:

Reset the world so it wasn't destroyed (risk the problem happening again) but never have met your friends on your adventure.
Fly the Bastion off to new places, with your newly found friends but leaving everyone you once knew dead.

I do like contrasts in games. The graphic style of Bastion was cartoony but the themes were bleak.


Whats the game where the pig fried its self?

Illusion of Gaia for SNES - I recently replayed it after beating it when I was like 11 or 12, and I don't remember getting chills from any scenes from it when I was younger. The entire 2nd half of the game (From Angel Village) sets a different pace than the first half.

Or Illusion of Time if you are European, I loved that game when I was younger, I wish I could play it again but it is one game that has never been re released and that makes me sad.

To be fair the game was pretty sad all the way through, like the ship that is fine and then you go to sleep and it turns out to be a ghost ship, or the guy that gets eaten by a fish and later communicates by banging on a cave wall, says he's ok despite being eaten by a fish. And the ending is the most bittersweet thing ever.

Hey, thejackyl, are you named after the villain from the game?

Thanks Jim, I didn't think I could love you more, then you post a picture from this game. You sir are awesome. Good luck in your new career as the new Elton John.

Anyway, I've written a lot so far so sorry for that but before someone brought up Illusion of Time/Gaia, I had a point to make. I've said so many times that the funeral scene in Valkyria Chronicles has made me cry before. And I think the reason for that is that Isara is such a strong, happy character who finally gets Rosie to stop being a bitch and see that her views are misguided and then is killed off. First time I saw that it was such a shock, then Rosie sings at the funeral, tears were shed. Ok, yeah its a bit cheesey as RPG's tend to be, but I still found it to be a moving part of the game.

Sorry Jimmy my boy, but I must protest. Every Final Fantasy after and including 8 (possibly even 7) has been progressively shittier than the one before it. I see your point about the emotional state of games, but your argument falls flat due to too many references to an officially dead and failed franchise. "It's neither dead nor failed! They're still making games and they're awesome!" FFXIII 1 through 3 beg to differ. Yes, they're still making games, but blast a turkey with a shotgun and it'll keep running and flopping around for a bit...doesn't mean it'll be getting up and flying again any time soon.

The death of Final Fantasy occured when they decided to exchange CGI movies, better graphics in general, and voice acting for the good writing of the past (FF's 1 through 6 and including the original Tactics).

That said, if you play piano half as well as you can ride an exercise bike in your underwear, you could out-perform Elton John any day. :3

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