Escapist Expo: Fanboyism

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Fanboyism

Fanboys. We all know one, and some of us may even be one. Like it or not, "fanboyism" is a massive force in nearly all social circles, either online or as part of your local gaming group. But what's the impact the phenomenon really has on our culture? Escape to the Movies host Bob Chipman and Jimquistion star Jim Sterling tackle the issues alongside Dr. Mark Kline, and Paul Saunders from LRR.

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OMG, this was hilarious in person.

Jesus, Escapist, you're killing me with all these hour long videos.

I have other thing to do, you know - Like watching other videos.

Casual Shinji:
Jesus, Escapist, you're killing me with all these hour long videos.

I have other thing to do, you know - Like watching other videos.

Problem is they are so good and entertaining.

Really hope this was popular enough to do again. I will attend. These have been great.

And geeze, Susan, she is just so.. expressive. Need more female writers and editors!

captcha: Move Over

I really enjoyed this one, probably more so than the other ones.
Can I ask what Yahtzee said at the beginning, about being upset over something changing in some way, I believe the word started with inf- or something like that?

"Like perhaps, Nintendo"
Too true, seeing as Bob can be quoted to have said "video games come from Japan" which is clearly not true if you played games on a computer, or an atari, etc.

GAunderrated:

Casual Shinji:
Jesus, Escapist, you're killing me with all these hour long videos.

I have other thing to do, you know - Like watching other videos.

Problem is they are so good and entertaining.

I'm so glad they put these up, because I couldn't go. I just hope that have something on Gavs concert.

furai47:
Can I ask what Yahtzee said at the beginning, about being upset over something changing in some way, I believe the word started with inf- or something like that?

Infinitesimal. A lovely way of saying 'really tiny' or, I guess in this case, 'insignificant'.

So, that thing Yahtzee and Dr Mark were talking about, but couldn't remember what it was called? 'Effort justification'. It's to do with cognitive dissonance; the more you suffer to get something, the more you're forced to reason that you must've *really* wanted that thing. Which is why group initiation and hazing is a thing. (Heeeey, and they said the stuff I learned at university would never come in useful! Though, to be fair, I only remember because one of our coursework assignments was a 2500-word essay on exactly this topic.)

(EDIT: Okay, I really need to stop the whole 'pause video to make comments as I go' thing, turns out they revisited this at the end and said pretty much all of that. Bah.)

Oh, and I'm completely with Yahtzee on the Red Dwarf thing. Everything after series 6 was so bloody awful that I generally don't even acknowledge its existence, but here I am all like "Red Dwarf series 10? OMG YES BRING IT ON!". I'm not even trying to fool myself - the chance of it being any good is very slim - but I won't miss it for anything.

I knew they'd bring ponies up. I just knew it. :p

For me, like they said on the panel, a fanboy is basically someone who constantly goes out of their way to bash those who disagree with them. I actually think the term 'fanboy' is less describing a person that likes the thing in question and rather describing a person who's constantly shitting on those who don't, (for example, Battlefield fans who go on CoD videos to talk crap about it and vice versa) because you can be an obsessed fan while not being intrusive and annoying.

I did the Fanboy thing when I was a kid with my SNES/N64/PS2. I remember the PS2/XB/GC era the best, mostly because it's when the internet started getting big and OH GOD MESSAGE BOARDS. I got IP banned from GameFAQs for losing five accounts in a month to flame wars back in 2000.

Looking back, it wasn't about that one system was definitively better than the other. No matter which console you bought at the start of that generation, you had four to five years of great games and great gaming memories (unless you bought a Dreamcast).

But it didn't look like that in 2002. You just didn't want good games on your console. You wanted EXCLUSIVES. If it wasn't exclusive, you wanted the BETTER version to be on you console. One conversion I had with a friend in school...

XBox owning friend: GTA III is going to be even better on XBox.
PS2 owning me: Sony and Rockstar sighed an exclusivity agreement. GTA isn't coming to XBox for 3 years.
XBox owning friend: Oh... well, GTA III wasn't very good anyway.

There you have it. Games on my console are better. Games not on my console aren't. I remember rationalizing that KOTOR was a shitty game because it was an XBox exclusive.

KOTOR. KOTOR!

Why the hell did this happen? Because your parents would only ever buy you one console per generation and ONLY if your grades were good. You were stuck with that console for five years and GOD HELP YOU if you picked the wrong one. Of course you picked the right one. It's the one that has ALL THE BESTEST GAMES. You have Grand Theft Auto III, Final Fantasy X and Metal Gear Solid 2. What do they have? Halo? More like GAYLO!

Part of it still lives with me today. Sure, I have all three current-gen consoles, but now it's my $1200 gaming PC that I'm in love with. When you've got one of those, there is NO EXCUSE for playing the console version of anything. Pitiful, uncultured, console peasants...

Yahtzee - ~34:30:
If I were to mention the letters 'MLP'.

I love how you can see Dr. Mark Kline quietly ask MovieBob what 'MLP' means, and he goes 'OH!' when he tells him.

Yahtzee's name wasn't mentioned in the OP. Doesn't really matter, but it misled me into believing that something had happened to the man. :D Just thought that you (moderators) should know in case you find this a thing worth fixing!

Just a small remark towards the bit about Mass Effect 3 towards the end; they didn't change the ending. It was a compromise, they elaborated on what they meant by the ending and what the outcome was some more.

But nothing was changed, it was the same ending and they DID show conviction and the balls to stand by their ending while trying to appease fans by at least fleshing it out more (but I don't think that anything was really changed, save for adding one sort of semi-joke ending as a jab at fans).

Oh, I knew Sonic was going to come up in the worst fanboyism question and I totally agree. Although I disagree with Bob's comment about it being terrible for years now. There have definitely been some god-awful titles, but recently (since about Colours) the games have been really good.

Also, so glad you guys put these up. Definitely regretting being x miles away all the way here in Scotland. It needs to come to the UK! =P (eventually of course) You can call it the Escapist Expo Export. It'll be our own little E3!

chozo_hybrid:
Snip

I do believe in one of the comments of the other videos perhaps saying that they had x amounts of videos from the panel still to put up, including one of Gav's concert.

Are We going to get all the panels from day 2 too? please? pretty please?

Religious extremists, Pedophilia, and My Little Pony. These topics are stricken from the record.

Andy Shandy:

chozo_hybrid:
Snip

I do believe in one of the comments of the other videos perhaps saying that they had x amounts of videos from the panel still to put up, including one of Gav's concert.

Thanks for the info, I want to watch all of each of these videos, but I don't have enough time in the day >_<

By the way, your icon is mesmerizing...

One of the fan questions was some sort of long rambling about can the fandom of something be so toxic it can me it better or ruin it. He then refused to name the example he was clearly think of, but makes some cryptic remarks about 4chan. Can someone tell me what the hell he was talking about?

I can only imagine that he was talking about the brony fandom. Since I don't know any other fandom that would be banned in 4chan and be consider poisonous to the very thing they love.

bdcjacko:
One of the fan questions was some sort of long rambling about can the fandom of something be so toxic it can me it better or ruin it. He then refused to name the example he was clearly think of, but makes some cryptic remarks about 4chan. Can someone tell me what the hell he was talking about?

Hey it's the Two Best Friends theme song! Right, guys?

Guys?

The reaction Jim has when fanboyism is compared to pedophilia subculture is priceless.

I have to admit, when I came to this panel and Sonic came up, it kind of hurt me since I consider myself a bit of a Sonic the Hedgehog fan. I'm to Sonic what MovieBob is to Mario I'd like to think. Have a lot of Sonic merchandise, games, comics, and enjoy watching the cartoons. I remember MovieBob once saying the games started getting bad in his GameOverthinker videos starting with Sonic Adventure 2 due to Shadow, but I politely disagree. Despite my love for Sonic, I will humbly say that after Adventure 2, the games did go downhill, with Sonic 2006 being the absolute worst and piece of crap. But I'm glad that since Sonic Colours, that the games are starting to improve.

Saarai-fan:
I have to admit, when I came to this panel and Sonic came up, it kind of hurt me since I consider myself a bit of a Sonic the Hedgehog fan. I'm to Sonic what MovieBob is to Mario I'd like to think. Have a lot of Sonic merchandise, games, comics, and enjoy watching the cartoons. I remember MovieBob once saying the games started getting bad in his GameOverthinker videos starting with Sonic Adventure 2 due to Shadow, but I politely disagree. Despite my love for Sonic, I will humbly say that after Adventure 2, the games did go downhill, with Sonic 2006 being the absolute worst and piece of crap. But I'm glad that since Sonic Colours, that the games are starting to improve.

They were referring to Sonic fanboys, the overzealous, foaming at the mouth, rabid fans who will defend the franchise until their dying day, no matter how bad the games have become.

You are clearly not a fanboy, you are just a fan, because you are able to make clear distinctions between the quality of games and decide for yourself which ones you like and which ones you don't.

Personally, I am a gigantic Transformers fan, the first cartoon series (flawed as it is), has a very special place on my DVD-shelf, I have hundreds of the original toys and naturally I bought the PS2 game Transformers: Energon and both of the recent Transformers games from Highmoon Studios.
That being said, I HATE the Micheal Bay movies. No amount of unconditional love for Transformers can convince me otherwise and I am not defending the movies whatsoever. They are terrible, atrocious, horrendous and a big middle finger to all the fans of the original series. That's the diference between a fan and a fanboy.

You don't need to feel hurt, because they were not referring to you personally. Just the fanboys who were (this actually happened) cry about the longer legs and the different eye color.

I'm not getting sleep tonight, I've got one more thing from the Expo to go through...

Anyway, I guess I agree with Paul's definition of a self-proclaimed Fanboy. I identify myself as a Freelancer Fanboy (its own my profile here) and I love the game dearly. I guess nostalgia makes it easy for me to ignore the older graphics of the characters and I do still want a sequel or another version. I do not get angry over it however so I guess I don't cross that line.

CFL and NHL teams in Canada... There are some very angry Fanboys there. Especially since the lockout.

I'm so glad these Expo events were filmed! :D

Nooo, I've finished all the panels, now something is missing in my life. :(

At least we can have Yahtzee back..

Programme:

1. Talk about how bad fanboyism is.
2. Put non-augmenting scribbles on whatever junk escapist fanboys happen to bring to you.

I personally really enjoyed that, Every expo video. It looks really enjoyable!

Seems the woman just wanted to make her point about what SHE thinks about stuff since she had a microphone. Let's insult MLP and other things you know people will disagree with. THATS JIMS JOB.

I will watch this video tomorrow and I am sure it will be hilarious.

Neko Pounce:
I personally really enjoyed that, Every expo video. It looks really enjoyable!

Seems the woman just wanted to make her point about what SHE thinks about stuff since she had a microphone. Let's insult MLP and other things you know people will disagree with. THATS JIMS JOB.

It's called moderating the panel, giving them new ideas and concepts to discuss.

I'd like to say that without Susan moderating I'd have been twice as nervous as I was -- and I was already pretty nervous. She's a fantastic panel mod and knowing she was there for each one let me know each one would turn out great.

So yeah, here's me sticking up for her!

okay, I just watched it. Was MLP banned on 4Chan or was it something else?

Right, so I have to bring up something Susan said. During the discussion on companies putting out crap because the fanboys will buy wathever they sell, Susan defended it by saying it's just good buisness. I have to bring this up because It's not the first time Susan has said things to similar effect in the podcast, and it always rubs me the wrong way, but ths time, the discussion itself gave me the tools to argue.
First of all, I'm not trying to attack Susan, she's my favorite of the "core staff" (i.e. non video-contributors) and such a great role model. All the love to you<3, I just take issue with this one thing.
Ok, so to the argument, Bob made a valid, though extreeme comparrison, but the point I think he was trying to make, but definately the one I'm trying to make is "good buissness decision doesn't mean morally OK".
Example, the panel compared fanboys to people in love, and since they often love coroporations, love to someone who don't love you back. So if we scale it back, and we have a boy in love with a girl who don't love him back. He will gladly buy her stuff, do things for her even though she has no apparent interest in him. The girl can use this love to get him to buy things. He will not be dissapointed if he does this, even if he gets no love in return for his gifts, as the good doctor said in the panel, the act of loving someone can be a reward in itself, but he is not rich and spends his pocket money on this girl.
Is not a sound economical decicion for the girl to let the boy do so? Yet at least I find the act morally reprehensive. How is this different from if a company exploits it's fan base? Because it's a company's job? Does that make expoitation OK?
Now, I of course think that a company must focus on making money, but laws can never make all immoral acts illegal, that doesn't mean they are OK. We can't ban on-disc DLC but we can call them out for it. And I don't think it's ok to say that "in the end, the bad buisness models will hurt themself in the end" because they might not, they might be making money on online passes forever but that doesn't make it ok in my mind for a company to do so, because they are screwing their costumers over, and even if it's both legal and profitable it's still a shitty thing.
Ok, I'm all ranted out. Appologies if there's a lot of errors, I'm on my iPad so it gets a bit clusterf**ky.

Oh, and great video, really wish I could have been there.

me3 ending was such a mess and changed so easily because it was an ending by committee, that and the o.g. ending dark energy destroying the universe etc was shot to hell and back by anyone reading the codex entries in the first 2 games.

also think bioware is a great case study for fanboyism, since they use extensive data mining to make changes and usually go to such an extreme with it that it tends to piss off the more "hardcore" elements of that base.

me3 90% of a great game ruined by the last 20 minutes.

On behalf of everyone who really wanted to go to the Expo but for whatever reason couldn't, I would just like to thank whoever had the brilliant idea to put these panels up on the site to watch. It really is fun to watch these guys discuss things off-script, and it's been very insightful.

That said, why is Jim always in the middle? He looks like a fat Jesus at the Last Supper. :P

Gah, these panels are really interesting.
I so wish there were viable means for me to attend these.

I could spout endless lines about the subject matter which weren't really addressed, but (to everyone's joy) I will refrain.

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