Jimquisition: Why the Wii U May Have Already "Won" Next-gen

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and yet I still don't want a Wii-U in the slightest, i'll stick to playstation for the time being, besides, the Wii-U looks really uncomfortable to use

The ending summed up how I felt about the Bayonetta complaints as well. I wasn't even a huge fan of the game, it was fine gameplay wise, but the completely bonkers and nonsensical story didn't jive with me. So when I saw people losing their shit over the exclusivity, I just hung my head in shame that these are the kinds of idiots that seem to represent the greater gamer population.

werewolfsfury:
snip

Ah. I guess I should take my brother's views of the old days with a little more salt, considering we never owned one. Sega Genesis for the win!

Foolproof:
snip

Tablets, like any PC, aren't gaming specific devices; it just so happens you can play games on them, like phones. You can keep contributing the success of Nintendo to waggle/3D/tablets, but in all honesty gimmicks don't create a loyal gaming fan base, the games do. It is also hilarious how many times we keep have this "History won't repeat itself" topic whenever a Nintendo console comes out, even though it keeps totally repeating itself.

Speaking of which, I hope everyone is enjoying their Vitas, lol.

Jeremy Monken:
Smart TVs still aren't very close to providing a real hardcore gaming experience. They will, at most, have minigamey little app type games along the lines of Angry Birds or all the cheeseball Kinect games. That's the kind of gameplay the WiiU is likely to offer with a lot of its titles.

So how can the WiiU "win" when it's competing with the Smart TVs while the next entries from MS and Sony will be the hardcore traditional consoles we've come to know and love?

WiiU is trying to take on tablets, consoles and smart TVs all at once while doing nothing to appeal to someone that wants all three. Not to mention the buyers remorse it has to overcome with millions of dusty Wiis out there.

I'm betting on Microsoft in this round.

Congrats, you win the award for paying attention.

No, what he said was that TV's aren't about gaming, they're about everything else (twitter, Facebook, YouTube etc), which both the PS3 and XBOX360 have spent a lot of time and resources working on. If smart TV's really kick off in a big way, it basically means all those resources would have been a waste, while the wii has only focused on games, so loses nothing.

His reasoning then leads him to say it might mean the wii will win, which I feel is a bit of a stretch, but honestly, you have to concede that the wii at least wouldn't lose resources, while the xbox and ps3 would, and I hated the wii myself.

Wow, that was really interesting, I had never thought of things from that perspective before. The idea of smart TVs is really interesting, I never would have thought of TV as competition for consoles. While I'm not sure I care for his style that much, I do love the ideas Jim brings up, and I think he comes up with some really good points.

Either way I'm excited for the Wii U, it looks like it's going to be really interesting. I can't wait to get one!

Could of used a transition of some kind at 1:00 minute mark. Otherwise, I agree in how the Wii U can pose a threat, but they need to keep a steady supply of good games coming. My Wii library isn't very small in any way when compared to my Xbox library, but the Wii went incredibly long times between good releases.

A good point brought up in the comments of Tony Pounces Bayonetta 2 article is that the WiiU may be the better investment on the part of 3rd party developers as the new Sony/Microsoft hardware is going to be more powerful and there for more expensive to develope/sell on. Although this didn't seem to effect this gen to much... even if bitching over money is all big developers seem to do.

I'm not sure that "has no media features" is enough to draw people to the Wii U.

For the first year of it's life, it's got to compete with the Xbox and PS3, which it is only slightly better than, which it is going to mostly have the same games as, but less of them because it's new and won't have that appealing back catalogue of titles now very cheap, and which are both cheaper than it.

That last one is going to be a big deal. The Wii was so successful in part because it was cheaper than its competitors. Cheaper by a good deal, in fact.

The Wii U isn't. It's coming in as the most expensive box on the market, and I think the tablet controller is going to be a harder sell than the original motion controller was, simply because people will look at it and think "but I already have a smartphone", explaining how it integrates with games on the console is going to be a trickier proposition than explaining "wave your arms at the television".

GloatingSwine:
I'm not sure that "has no media features" is enough to draw people to the Wii U.

For the first year of it's life, it's got to compete with the Xbox and PS3, which it is only slightly better than, which it is going to mostly have the same games as, but less of them because it's new and won't have that appealing back catalogue of titles now very cheap, and which are both cheaper than it.

That last one is going to be a big deal. The Wii was so successful in part because it was cheaper than its competitors. Cheaper by a good deal, in fact.

The Wii U isn't. It's coming in as the most expensive box on the market, and I think the tablet controller is going to be a harder sell than the original motion controller was, simply because people will look at it and think "but I already have a smartphone", explaining how it integrates with games on the console is going to be a trickier proposition than explaining "wave your arms at the television".

The most expensive thing on the market by a tiny margin, despite being the next generation. I think it will do fine.

Now there's a problem with this arguement that I think is important to take note of. And that's the idea that something with multiple uses will suffer just because games are not the focus, but are rather one of many things it can do. This is possibly true. But at the same time we already have that going on right now in the form of the current console generation. The Wii is devoted to games while the 360 and PS3 branch out, yet the Wii is generally reguarded as the 'worst' console from what I've seen.

Now that isn't neccessarily a look at things to come and Nintendo's focus on gaming over other features could help it. But only if developers find it more appealing to develop on the Wii U then on other systems for fear that their games will be drowned out past the other features. And as other features get left by the wayside that will become less and less of a concern. Plus these Smart TVs aren't yet a viable alternative as opposed to just buying a $200-300 machine. At least not at the moment. These worries may become a real issue in the coming years. But not enough to stop people from getting used to using either the Xbox 720 or the PS4 in the meantime.

The only one that really has a problem that Jim seemed to focus on is Microsoft. As ways to get these features people are paying $60 for each year become easier and easier to access from other places, the number of people using the Xbox for the features they're 'charging' for will dwindle.

Now, there's one competitor that he left out. The PC. The PC has it's issues and many of it's problems will drive people away. Like trying to get some games to work or having to fiddle with settings for a decent length of time to make something you purchased function. But the PC is the most multi-functional 'gaming system' there is and from what I've seen is growing in popularity. I consider myself a console gamer in nearly every way. Yet I've been playing on the PC more then my 3 systems for likely a year now. Given I can just plug in a controller, boot up a game, and play from my PC, it's a good alternative with a lower price-per-game and, as such, is prefered. And yes. I do use a controller to play PC games. Deal with it. :p

EDIT: Of course, to go back to a point I made before, while the Wii is considered the 'worst' system by many, it's still done the best in the past. Lower price and being more 'casual-friendly' helped it. But the Wii U might actually suffer from the Wii. There are plenty of casual players who bought the Wii for Wii Sports and never used it for other things. This means that, while Nintendo did make money on hardware, it still didn't make a giant profit from software. It also means those same casual players will be less willing to buy another system when they have one they didn't want sitting around now. And of course the Wii has a low reputation with more hardcore players for so much shovelware and less actually good material to play.

Well damn I started watching this thinking, "What nutty way-out case for WiiU is he going to argue?" and by the end he's sold me on the idea I need to buy a WiiU and get behind Nintendo. WTF

The one word counter-argument I can think of to this is "graphics". While I am certain many here on the Escapist are not so unsophisticated as to let graphics be the sole (or even the most significant) criterion by which to judge a game or game system, it is, unfortunately, the primary criterion by which a fairly large segment of the general gamer community does judge a game or game system. It is the single property that is first and most expounded upon by the gaming journalists. It is the single property that often attracts people to the game in the first place or piques interest. It is the one property that is most shown-off in shows and screenshots. A lot of emphasis, unfortunately, even after all this time, is still placed on the graphics, first and foremost, even over gameplay, playability, fun-factor, and replay-value (as an aside, I consider replay-value to be measured by how much you want to play a game again purely for the pleasure of experiencing it again, not by the number of achievements and unlocks in the game; to me, that stuff is just tedious busy-work, like chores). Consequently, it ends up being the graphical prowess of gaming systems that people use to judge the quality and worth of the gaming systems. If the Wii U does not match the graphical prowess of the systems from Sony and Microsoft, then, despite the known wisdom that graphics do no make the game, the larger population of gamers will probably not invest much in the Wii U, especially in light of Nintendo's attitude and actions regarding the Wii.

Meanwhile, PC gamers continue to give precisely zero shits as they continue enjoying games as well as other media services like they have been doing for the past two decades.

I can't support the direction Nintendo is going with the Wii U and 3DS. Only big name developers will have a chance to make games for the systems do to the technology and support needed to make games that use the bells and whistles of each system. This means there will be less clever new games and more franchise rehashes. You may be excited for new Rayman and Bayonetta games, but how many new IPs are coming out for the Wii U? Bonus points if you can name one without Googling it.

That was a side I hadn't considered. Certainly a valid one though. On my PS3 frequently demanded features get ignored, but we get netflix and a youtube app. Can we talk about how you buggered my ability to transfer installed games to a PSP or vita? Maybe if the other features were over and above similar ones found elsewhere, but to date, anything that isn't outright crap still falls a bit flat, and let's not get into how limited the hard drives were originally for this "home multimedia centre". 80 gigs doesn't even hold my game instals anymore. Let's not try and cram video, music, pictures and TV in there as well.

The console market will never be able to keep up with tables, phones and TVs on non game things and probably shouldn't try. I wouldn't give nintendo great points right now. They're trying, but it's still gimmicky, and if the 3DS's history is any indication, may fall flat on its face even if Sony and MS don't follow suit.

Killing_Time:

- Microsoft has next to no big first party games anymore and has proved it by announcing a whole new Halo trilogy and another GOW

Do you know how Ironic that statement is?
Is it bad for Microsoft to announce Halo 4 or Gears 4 but not bad for Nintendo to announce Mario Kart 15 and Super Mario 27? Get real man.

While I do agree Xbox has less exclusive games (which it makes up with exclusive content for multi-platform games), the Halo and Gears franchises are still two big powerhouses that will both sell millions of copies.

My only problem with the Wii U is how painful that control looks to hold simply because it's so big and square. Beyond that, I don't care. I probably wont buy it, but should I get the inkling and I wouldn't have a problem with changing my mind.

The best, most flexible, most powerful experience is still to be had with a PC plugged into the TV. Sure, the Wii-U may be the least offensive of the next generation consoles, but why aim for least offensive?

Our hope for a good and true gaming world is the Wii U.

... Forgive me for sounding cynical, unforgiving, or pessimistic, but where did we go wrong? I mean, the Wii U looks fun but... really?

What happened to us? What happened to when I plugged in a game console because I wanted to be a purple dragon and whack some Rhynocs in the face?

Loved the Bayonetta 2 reaction

Akalabeth:

Killing_Time:

- Microsoft has next to no big first party games anymore and has proved it by announcing a whole new Halo trilogy and another GOW

Do you know how Ironic that statement is?
Is it bad for Microsoft to announce Halo 4 or Gears 4 but not bad for Nintendo to announce Mario Kart 15 and Super Mario 27? Get real man.

While I do agree Xbox has less exclusive games (which it makes up with exclusive content for multi-platform games), the Halo and Gears franchises are still two big powerhouses that will both sell millions of copies.

If by Ironic you mean not at all yes.
Compare Nintendo's 100's of Ip's to just Halo and Gears.
Comparing them and saying it's Ironic is the true Irony here.

This whole console argument that breaks out every generation is really tiring, guys. I have no problem with people saying what they prefer or an analysis like Jim did, an in-depth discussion is always nice to read, but fucking hell, stop being pretentious know-it-all bitching whiny fanboys of one or the other. Some posts in this thread are just unbearable.

ex275w:
PC games and I hate online multiplayer mostly due to living in Mexico and always having horrendous amounts of lag.

If you live in Mexico and have lag problems then it's you, not the location. You either need to get a decent computer, a decent connection or learn how the crap to actually configure your connection; I play most games with servers on US with 200ms at most, 75ms at least and usually 100-150ms lag, not horrible by almost any standard.

As for the PC elitist hating Nintendo. I would say most of us emulated some nintendo console for the nostalgia at some point, and the current nintendo? It's not hate, just utter indifference, they can succeed, die or whatever, don't give a rat's ass.

I can't say I care for Smart TVs I can understand why people might want them but like 3D it seems like another way to try and sell TVs because once you've got 1080p on a reasonably sized screen and why would you need to upgrade.

Most of my entertainment is PC based, it is only games and the odd DVD that I play on consoles now. I get the impression it will be the interfaces that decides who wins the next generation as Microsoft's constant revisions seem to put people off, whilst Sony (which I don't any current gen products of) has remained consistent and easy to use. The recent lawsuits between Apple, HTC and Samsung over things as simple as an "over flow bounce" in a gallery shows that increasingly these sorts of things are becoming worth millions.

Still I'll wait this one out, I had a Nintendo Wii at launch and then there was a dry spell of any decent games for a long time. I won't be doing that again.

webkilla:
I have an uncle who's tv already does web-browsing and youtube streaming quite well.

Whose. Type it with me: W-H-O-S-E. Whose. You have an uncle whose TV already does &c.

Who's, on the other hand, means "who is," as in "Who's to blame for webkilla's education?"

Mr.Mattress:

ex275w:

Nintendo Land is certainly not as appealing as Wii Sports.

I played it at a WiiU Experience in Washington D.C., and it was indeed a shiner there! It used the all of the controllers intelligently, the mini games were amazing, the game looked beautiful, and it was just so much fun no matter what controller you used or what game you played! What does Wii Sports have? Tennis, Boxing, and Bowling... Snore...

Which are easily recognizable mini games that everyone can look at and think "hey, i like tennis, this looks fun!". nintendo land becomes a bit more abstract and not as self explanatory, which i think is a problem when it comes to the most casual of Wii owners. I dont believe that the same people will rush out and buy a Wiiu just to play hide and seek or to throw shurikens.

TWEWER:
I can't support the direction Nintendo is going with the Wii U and 3DS. Only big name developers will have a chance to make games for the systems do to the technology and support needed to make games that use the bells and whistles of each system. This means there will be less clever new games and more franchise rehashes. You may be excited for new Rayman and Bayonetta games, but how many new IPs are coming out for the Wii U? Bonus points if you can name one without Googling it.

Thatīs almost too easy... Zombiu :p, but aside from that?

How does the WiiU focus more on games than xbox 'n ps? It just doesn't have extra media features because Nintendo isn't big in that market at all. The next xbox and ps will have better hardware than the wiiu so it'll be able to play games at least just as well as the wiiu so I don't see how the status quo changes.

MrBaskerville:
Thatīs almost too easy... Zombiu :p, but aside from that?

Lego City Under Cover; Tank! Tank! Tank!; Nintendo Land; The Wonderful 101; Little Inferno.

PC has already won, because it can do all of it and more, and still be gamining oriented if you chose it to be so. And it can connect as many monitors or tvs as you want, so you cna have 8 peopel do different things and still run smoothly.

Strazdas:
PC has already won, because it can do all of it and more, and still be gamining oriented if you chose it to be so. And it can connect as many monitors or tvs as you want, so you cna have 8 peopel do different things and still run smoothly.

*pats on head*....yes johnny...we know that johnny...thats very nice!..why don't you go and play with mr PC in the corner..then its almost time for your nap...

ok ok I'm kidding, while you are right thats completly irrelevent to this video or the points jim is making

he's talking purely about consoles..

Mr Sterling, you make a shockingly good point - I actually sat bolt upright and swore out loud. Insightful!

Thank God for you.

You make some good points, and I generally hadn't thought of most of that, but I'm still cynical about the Wii-u or, in fact, anything nintendo does.

My fear is that once they have the hardcore gamer's money for the console, they'll pull the same shit as they did for the wii and go back to catering to the casuals with family party games and cooking sims. That's not to say that accessible games aren't hardcore, or that hardcore games can't be family friendly, but that nintendo will stop making an effort to provide the sort of variety and depth in games that keep hardcore gamers interested.

It all feels like a bit of a ruse, all these hardcore games being promised both on 3DS and Wii-U, some of them being stuff nintendo fans have been requesting for a really long time, but remembering the Wii launch, this has happened before and it didn't end well for hardcore gamers.

Of course, if the Wii U keeps that variety of games from casual to hardcore (Sorry, I hate using those words so damn much) for a good couple of years or so, I will gladly take back my words and give a warm "welcome back" handshake to nintendo. Until then, I'm cautious to any claims that Wii-U will deliver.

I posted this in the facebook comments (always forget that they dont apply to forum section)

- To touch on Jim's comments about Xbox and Sony's "push to integrate facebook/twitter/netflix", this is pesronally one thing that I don't enjoy/care about these consoles (and by proxy the Wii U's TVii). While I know I am not the "target market" for these products, I do wish that there was some sort of customization available to the user which would alter my Xbox dashboard based on what I do the most. e.g. - if I watch a lot of netflix, then I Would expect to see a lot of video/netflix related stuff on my dashboard. If I use my machine for gaming (which I do) I would like to see news about the game currently in the tray, or top trending game news, or news about the developers who made the game I have in my disc tray at the moment.. something to connect me more to my experience vs giving me a mess of disjointed marketing gobblty-goup for netflix or some movie coming out. -

I think the saddest part about Jim's episode is the fact that we all know what Sony and Microsoft are going to try and do, which at the moment, looks like they are pushing away from gaming innovation and moving towards the netflix/hulu/facebook spam that our culture (north america's) seems to be wallowing in.

Akalabeth:
My only problem with the Wii U is how painful that control looks to hold simply because it's so big and square. Beyond that, I don't care. I probably wont buy it, but should I get the inkling and I wouldn't have a problem with changing my mind.

See that's what I thought, but every "hands on" that I have read/seen have said that the controller is actually quite good, so take what you will from that.

Mr.Mattress:

MrBaskerville:
Thatīs almost too easy... Zombiu :p, but aside from that?

Lego City Under Cover; Tank! Tank! Tank!; Nintendo Land; The Wonderful 101; Little Inferno.

actually TANKS! TANKS! TANKS! is a remake of an arcade game so doesn't count.

I'm actually looking forward to to the WiiU because of Bayonetta 2, Rayman Legends, Monster Hunter and the new Super Smash Bros. game.
What would make it even better is if they release Mario Party 1, 2 & 3 in some kind of all in one remake which combines all 3 (maybe some of 4 if there is space) I wouldn't hesitate to get one if they made that.

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