Jimquisition: Why the Wii U May Have Already "Won" Next-gen

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Yeah, not convinced at all, the WiiU looks like another shitbox kiddie gaming console. I'll be right where I belong...playing PC games, where you can still find all the "hardcore" you want to find!

I still think the WiiU will lose, namely do to it's weak graphics, I'm not a graphics snug but looking at the Wii I believe that what hurt it the most the fact that it didn't even have the option to support multiplatform titles which directly led to it's tiny library that so crippled it in the long run. The WiiU may be able to offer a unique experience but if Nintendo doesn't have a plan to up it's capability when Sony and Microsoft come around, every developer is gonna jump the Wii ship again and move to a console that has the power to make what they want instead of a console with a novel gimmick. Not to mention releasing new console without Sony or Microsoft not even releasing rumors of is also gonna hurt it for two reasons that I can see, one it gives Sony and Microsoft a great chance to improve the WiiU idea and have it in the console right off the bat, which the Move and Kinetic proves both companies are willing to and capable of doing. The second reason is I think most people would rather campare consoles to make sure they have the best value I can imagine a lot of people not buying a WiiU simply becuase they want to see it stack up against the PS4 or Xbox720 first.

Mr.Mattress:

ex275w:

Nintendo Land is certainly not as appealing as Wii Sports.

Ma'am (Or Sir), I resent that. I've played Wii Sports and I've played Nintendo Land. And let me assure you, that if I chose to save one and chose to toss another one in a burning Garbage can, I would take Nintendo Land ever time.

I played it at a WiiU Experience in Washington D.C., and it was indeed a shiner there! It used the all of the controllers intelligently, the mini games were amazing, the game looked beautiful, and it was just so much fun no matter what controller you used or what game you played! What does Wii Sports have? Tennis, Boxing, and Bowling... Snore...

OT: Interesting points Mr. Jim. I'm already excited about the WiiU though.

I'm a sir, and what I meant by appeal doesn't reflect the quality of the game, it looks better than Wii Sports, but it doesn't look as appealing (Charismatic) as Wii Sports. Just like the Transformers movies are more appealing to a general public than the Tree of Life, doesn't mean the Tree of Life isn't any good.

Sounds like PC is going to be looked to for dedicated games again. A lot of people saw consoles becoming media hubs with games attached in the early 2000s. The big corps want to make money, not games.

lord.jeff:
I still think the WiiU will lose, namely do to it's weak graphics, I'm not a graphics snug but looking at the Wii I believe that what hurt it the most the fact that it didn't even have the option to support multiplatform titles which directly led to it's tiny library that so crippled it in the long run. The WiiU may be able to offer a unique experience but if Nintendo doesn't have a plan to up it's capability when Sony and Microsoft come around, every developer is gonna jump the Wii ship again and move to a console that has the power to make what they want instead of a console with a novel gimmick. Not to mention releasing new console without Sony or Microsoft not even releasing rumors of is also gonna hurt it for two reasons that I can see, one it gives Sony and Microsoft a great chance to improve the WiiU idea and have it in the console right off the bat, which the Move and Kinetic proves both companies are willing to and capable of doing. The second reason is I think most people would rather campare consoles to make sure they have the best value I can imagine a lot of people not buying a WiiU simply becuase they want to see it stack up against the PS4 or Xbox720 first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_games
1220 games, tiny, + all game cube games.
It's getting very expensive to make a high end game now, I'm not sure everyone wants to risk their entire company to make a single game.

I honestly have no idea how the Wii U will do. It doesn't help that IMHO this is first new generation that nobody really wants(not even Sony or Microsoft). Games are already too expensive, we've all seen how spiraling development costs have bled creativity out of game development and more powerful hardware is only going to make this worse. Why should I spend another £300-£400 if all I'm getting is a shinier Modern Warfare clone? I admit it's easy to laugh at the Wii U although Nintendo have proven they can make an under powered touchscreen console work before, they may just be be able to do it again.

geizr:
The one word counter-argument I can think of to this is "graphics". While I am certain many here on the Escapist are not so unsophisticated as to let graphics be the sole (or even the most significant) criterion by which to judge a game or game system, it is, unfortunately, the primary criterion by which a fairly large segment of the general gamer community does judge a game or game system. It is the single property that is first and most expounded upon by the gaming journalists. It is the single property that often attracts people to the game in the first place or piques interest. It is the one property that is most shown-off in shows and screenshots. A lot of emphasis, unfortunately, even after all this time, is still placed on the graphics, first and foremost, even over gameplay, playability, fun-factor, and replay-value (as an aside, I consider replay-value to be measured by how much you want to play a game again purely for the pleasure of experiencing it again, not by the number of achievements and unlocks in the game; to me, that stuff is just tedious busy-work, like chores). Consequently, it ends up being the graphical prowess of gaming systems that people use to judge the quality and worth of the gaming systems. If the Wii U does not match the graphical prowess of the systems from Sony and Microsoft, then, despite the known wisdom that graphics do no make the game, the larger population of gamers will probably not invest much in the Wii U, especially in light of Nintendo's attitude and actions regarding the Wii.

The PS1 was far, far weaker graphically than the N64. The PS2 was leaps behind the Xbox and Gamecube in terms of graphics. Both consoles torunced the competitions. The Wii was far ,far weaker than either the PS3 or the 360, yet outsold them both at an embarrassing rate. If the most powerful console automatically became the most popular, then the N64 would have trounced the PS1, and the Xbox would have shat all over both the PS2 and the Gamecube.

For all their bitching, gamers don;t care about graphics that much. If a console has good graphics but no games, then it will flop compared to a console with weaker graphics but a bigger library. Just look at the Vita, and compare it to how the 3DS is doing now that its got some games to support it.

TWEWER:
I can't support the direction Nintendo is going with the Wii U and 3DS. Only big name developers will have a chance to make games for the systems do to the technology and support needed to make games that use the bells and whistles of each system. This means there will be less clever new games and more franchise rehashes. You may be excited for new Rayman and Bayonetta games, but how many new IPs are coming out for the Wii U? Bonus points if you can name one without Googling it.

ZombiU? The Wonderful 101? Tank Tank Tank?

To me the release of the Wii U seems a lot like the second coming of the "Dreamcast", and all the mistakes that involved. The same exact business move that pretty much knocked Nintendo's big competitor... SEGA... out of the hardware aspect of things. A rivalry still remembered in all of the Sonic Vs. Mario stuff which endures despite having lost all real relevency.

Basically we've got the least powerful console coming out first hoping to pre-emptively get an install base before the other big consoles come out. It promises all of these innovative things and gimmicks, but it's doubtful if they will work, or even be as great as they sound if they do work. I look at the Dreamcast's own controller/memory card set up which put a display on your memory unit and could even involved mini-games and such attached to the data cards, and I can't help but think that what Nintendo is doing is simply a new, much more advanced, version of doing that. Not to mention how the Dreamcast as supposed to have internet playable games, things like Armada, which were going to present a persistant world enviroment, that just never really panned out, even as far as development goes.

At any rate, I could be wrong, but I suspect this is going to end much the same way. The Wii U will be the big boy on the block for a little while, and then after it's 5 minutes it's going to get it's block knocked off by the rival consoles.

As far as the "entire entertainment experience" thing, I have to agree that it's a pretty bad idea, in the end I don't think these consoles are going to become the household products for non-gamers that the makers want. In the end it's still going to come down to the games, and the core gaming audience, and really it comes down to what titles you have and how powerful the system is. In the final equasion the other consoles are probably going to produce more and better games with their higher capabilities, which means more gamers will gravitate towards them, and admittedly will probably ignore the rest of the stuff being tacked onto it, as will everyone else.

xPixelatedx:

Foolproof:
snip

Tablets, like any PC, aren't gaming specific devices; it just so happens you can play games on them, like phones. You can keep contributing the success of Nintendo to waggle/3D/tablets, but in all honesty gimmicks don't create a loyal gaming fan base, the games do. It is also hilarious how many times we keep have this "History won't repeat itself" topic whenever a Nintendo console comes out, even though it keeps totally repeating itself.

Speaking of which, I hope everyone is enjoying their Vitas, lol.

Yes, because fucking once is a pattern.

The Wii never "repeated itself". In case you hadn't noticed, the Gamecube was a dismal failure, and blind luck made them bounce back from it.

And you wanna know the big difference between tablets and PC's? A tablet isn't complex - you see a game, you can buy it in 3 minutes, have it installed in half a minute, and learn how to play it in 10 seconds. Unlike the PC, where you need a masters degree to work the fucking thing if you want to game on it.

The WiiU is more complicated than its chief rival, not less. That means it will not attract the casuals. And with its main strength lost, it will be right smack back in the position it was with the Gamecube - relying solely on its loyal fans.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

geizr:
The one word counter-argument I can think of to this is "graphics". While I am certain many here on the Escapist are not so unsophisticated as to let graphics be the sole (or even the most significant) criterion by which to judge a game or game system, it is, unfortunately, the primary criterion by which a fairly large segment of the general gamer community does judge a game or game system. It is the single property that is first and most expounded upon by the gaming journalists. It is the single property that often attracts people to the game in the first place or piques interest. It is the one property that is most shown-off in shows and screenshots. A lot of emphasis, unfortunately, even after all this time, is still placed on the graphics, first and foremost, even over gameplay, playability, fun-factor, and replay-value (as an aside, I consider replay-value to be measured by how much you want to play a game again purely for the pleasure of experiencing it again, not by the number of achievements and unlocks in the game; to me, that stuff is just tedious busy-work, like chores). Consequently, it ends up being the graphical prowess of gaming systems that people use to judge the quality and worth of the gaming systems. If the Wii U does not match the graphical prowess of the systems from Sony and Microsoft, then, despite the known wisdom that graphics do no make the game, the larger population of gamers will probably not invest much in the Wii U, especially in light of Nintendo's attitude and actions regarding the Wii.

The PS1 was far, far weaker graphically than the N64. The PS2 was leaps behind the Xbox and Gamecube in terms of graphics. Both consoles torunced the competitions. The Wii was far ,far weaker than either the PS3 or the 360, yet outsold them both at an embarrassing rate. If the most powerful console automatically became the most popular, then the N64 would have trounced the PS1, and the Xbox would have shat all over both the PS2 and the Gamecube.

For all their bitching, gamers don;t care about graphics that much. If a console has good graphics but no games, then it will flop compared to a console with weaker graphics but a bigger library. Just look at the Vita, and compare it to how the 3DS is doing now that its got some games to support it.

TWEWER:
I can't support the direction Nintendo is going with the Wii U and 3DS. Only big name developers will have a chance to make games for the systems do to the technology and support needed to make games that use the bells and whistles of each system. This means there will be less clever new games and more franchise rehashes. You may be excited for new Rayman and Bayonetta games, but how many new IPs are coming out for the Wii U? Bonus points if you can name one without Googling it.

ZombiU? The Wonderful 101? Tank Tank Tank?

Well its clear you didn't google it, since ZombiU and Tank Tank Tank aren't new IPs - the latter is a port of an arcade game from 2009, the former a reboot to a Commodore 64 game called Zombi, where the only thing they've added to ZombiU is the pointless fucking screen gimmicks.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombi_(video_game)

Jim you truly are a gift. Your impersonation of angry gamers, as usual, had me rocking in my chair.

Am I exiting about the WiiU? Nah I am not going out 5 days before launch in a tent outside a shop.

But yeah I see a good future for the WiiU. Why? Well not precisely the hardware but the deeper ideas.

With an Ipad and 4 Ipods you can play those old board games...

With WiiU's pad again you can create the ability to have two different things on two different screens.

And that is exiting

While I usually agree with Jim, I think his criticism over Bayonetta 2 is unjustified. If I were a fan of the game (and I'm not, but if I was) I would be very disappointed. It sucks having to shell out for a whole console that you aren't interested in, just to play ONE game. Maybe Jim can't relate since his job provides him with every console ever. But I can relate: I bought a Japanese Wii just to play Fatal Frame 4. Lame.

i just hope i get more use out of it than my Wii, for many of us the Wii was machine for Mario kart and smash brothers,hacks for those two games,collecting dust, and occasionally a 3rd game.

i got way WAAAAY more use out of my ds. especially with 999+ hours i clocked on Pokemon, well my brother and i anyway.

i would like a full fledged Pokemon game on the wii, with a story and multi regions.

i would throw my money at that right now, and so would alot of people, those games still hit million copy figures really close to the launch date.

seriously do it.

The Tall Nerd:
i just hope i get more use out of it than my Wii, for many of us the Wii was machine for Mario kart and smash brothers,hacks for those two games,collecting dust, and occasionally a 3rd game.

i got way WAAAAY more use out of my ds. especially with 999+ hours i clocked on Pokemon, well my brother and i anyway.

i would like a full fledged Pokemon game on the wii, with a story and multi regions.

i would throw my money at that right now, and so would alot of people, those games still hit million copy figures really close to the launch date.

seriously do it.

True the Wii's "Wii are Different" didn't work out on the long term. Oh sure different type of control method. It works in part, if well programmed. In the end it gave rise to many titles that are just mini games.

Nintendo cannot life alone on Pokemon, Mario and a Zelda

And well a Pokemon game on the WiiU using the full ability would be great

masticina:

True the Wii's "Wii are Different" didn't work out on the long term. Oh sure different type of control method. It works in part, if well programmed. In the end it gave rise to many titles that are just mini games.

Nintendo cannot life alone on Pokemon, Mario and a Zelda

And well a Pokemon game on the WiiU using the full ability would be great

too true i did buy the Kirby game and am getting the 20Th anniversary thing, i like Kirby.
zelda on the other hand, doesn't speak to me, its really samey, and that's coming from a person who clocked 999+ hours on Pokemon,

i know Nintendo prides themselves on nostalgia, but the loz has gone a bit too far, i am all for don't break whats not broken, but loz hasn't even been touched, its just, middle ages, blond kid, princess , bad guy , go nuts.

im just saying at least Mario changes the scenery, he also has several different types of games ranging from rpg's to sports games.

someone suggested to me a long while ago that maybe they should links in different time periods and he could hang out with people, link has unlimited cameo potential, he could be in ainchent Rome or Greece and then hang out with pit, or could be a woman right before western exploration hanging out with assassin's.

sorry guy went a little off topic there
yes he wii got shovel ware-ey

Foolproof:

xPixelatedx:

Foolproof:
snip

Tablets, like any PC, aren't gaming specific devices; it just so happens you can play games on them, like phones. You can keep contributing the success of Nintendo to waggle/3D/tablets, but in all honesty gimmicks don't create a loyal gaming fan base, the games do. It is also hilarious how many times we keep have this "History won't repeat itself" topic whenever a Nintendo console comes out, even though it keeps totally repeating itself.

Speaking of which, I hope everyone is enjoying their Vitas, lol.

Yes, because fucking once is a pattern.

The Wii never "repeated itself". In case you hadn't noticed, the Gamecube was a dismal failure, and blind luck made them bounce back from it.

And you wanna know the big difference between tablets and PC's? A tablet isn't complex - you see a game, you can buy it in 3 minutes, have it installed in half a minute, and learn how to play it in 10 seconds. Unlike the PC, where you need a masters degree to work the fucking thing if you want to game on it.

The WiiU is more complicated than its chief rival, not less. That means it will not attract the casuals. And with its main strength lost, it will be right smack back in the position it was with the Gamecube - relying solely on its loyal fans.

The Gamecube didn't sell a lot, but it still made profits unlike the ps3.

Foolproof:
Sony's slippage into third place was the result of an act of hubris that they are incredibly unlikely to repeat. Besides which, the elements for Microsofts western dominance come basically from the self perpetuating cycle of it being seen as the dominant console. Its strength has lay in the third party games it shares with the Ps3 for years, it only succeeds because of a lower price and because it is seen as the ubiquitous console - both of which could easily change in the next generation.

With an early focus on games to contrast it with Microsofts more-than-likely lack of the same (all of their internal studios, and even most of their third party partners, are working on 360 games, with virtually no-one left over to work on the Xbox 720 exclusives), Sony will likely regain the position of dominance they held for the 5th and 6th generation.

You must admit, the Ps3's lack of success can be attributed largely to a freak case of hubris, one incredibly unlikely to repeat itself.

The Vita does not require me to conclude let alone admit or point to a freak case.
Now I'll give you they may have more lineup...lined up as to the nextbox...but really does it matter?
Again the next gen consoles will not be made over the current limits of PC tech or if they are will become the PS3 all over again. and t he largest problems of development are combination of porting *down* to console limitations and making things to spec in conjunctions with hardware and services. So Third parties, second parties, etc will still be there. Doing more of the same for console players only using the proprietary features of each provider. Again technically the WiiU is a joke with a look at specs its the arrangement and conveniences the layout that makes it possible product out for the masses and something you can't *quite* substitute a PC for without working at it enough specialized equipment purpose is more enticing.

You seriously think MS can't just pullup or dust off or pump up a current project when its been practically snaring the PC market to their standards and so on? Really that's the issue with MS they may not need to make killer app IP. Everyone will gladly, seeing them as the viable alternative for high end and with nintendo's reputation and perceived flaws and market and Sony's lack of western PC relationship, GIVE THEM THEIR OWN. If not the next Halo or GoW (either of them) then the next Minecraft, etc. They have dozens of people they could exalt from the xbla level and again that's assuming they wanna go AAA which is seriously being derided across the board. You can't succeed on the Nintendo console, their IP drowns yours and they have so many demands and I hear they gnaw your bungholes with rats if you suggest you change the temperature of the coffee. MS just has you sell half your first born, regardless if their legitmate or not. So we make two games for them under their thumb my graduation party mistake gets a home in the MS product testing farms, become a big name developer and strike out on our own. Or even better you can be like the half dozen Wii or Kinect modders who get bankrolled or RECRUITED by MS to make them competitive gaming products.

Sony can't bring out the Last Guardian.

So why would I still not buy a Wii U? Simple. What was on the Xbox 360? Halo, Borderlands, Elder Scrolls, Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, etc, etc. All of them missing on the Wii.

GrimHeaper:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_games
1220 games, tiny, + all game cube games.
It's getting very expensive to make a high end game now, I'm not sure everyone wants to risk their entire company to make a single game.

alot of them were ports or mediocre, or crap at worst

the fact is was the Wii was simply not running in the same leauge as the other consoles, the big games that peopel talked about...Assasins creed, Batman AA, Mass Effect were found elsewhere

now weather or not you think this was a problem or not you cant deny that it makes it very unapealing to the "core" market...Ive owned both a PS3 and a PC and you know where its at? not exclusives as far as Im concerned

Infamous series was downright brilliant yes...but aside from that Uncharted is an amusing distraction at best and nothing else interested me....aside from Gears of war I couldnt think of anything I would want as far as the Xbox went

all the games Ive played (and loved) with the exception of Infamous have been multiplatform titles...for me thats important

but then the Wii sold enough anyway...so take that how you will (I still think it was a shitty gaming systm)

Arnoxthe1:
So why would I still not buy a Wii U? Simple. What was on the Xbox 360? Halo, Borderlands, Elder Scrolls, Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, etc, etc. All of them missing on the Wii.

which is sort of my own point. They can only raise the floor (not ceiling forget previous post's phrasing) not push the limits. At the very least they need to pull some sort of holding pattern until all the production tools are in place to keep the costs done and studios from imploding even when they make Modern Warfare or IP like Bayonetta fails to catch on for selling "only" 1.5 million where experiments like Binary Domain and Alpha Protocol and etc get tossed into the FAILURE bin for acheiving their aims and pulling in modest numbers.

WE are at the point EVERY studio is trying to put out Star Wars and Avatar level blockbusters ALL THE DAMN TIME or need to pull in that sort of success to pay for the equivalents of the romcoms and action movies while looking at the indie scene making mad bank hand over fist with production expenses that make corporate heads think only three people and intravenous caffeine is needed to run a company if only to save on costs.

As for the Wii... it was a risky first try that promised Revolution and it won...look at Sony and MS now. But that doesn't mean it will inherit the country to be. Joan of Arc was a revolutionary. Well nationalizing possibly insane demagogue/warlord but still very meaningful and different for her time and aims and effects. She didn't rule france afterwards.

It seems, oddly though I'd never bet on it, MS is taking the Wii's prototypical tries and refinining them to make them out and out.. well further and better (Kinnect is awesome and becoming a pervasive bit of equipment, MS GLass, etc) while courting Western and PC and indie development. Though we all are supposed to pretend that's steam because MS is still the enemey somehow.
Also Nintendo is designing things to further develop game technology for what the customer can use not as much developers and tech geeks want to happen. Motion controls didn't go as far as we originally imagined but they aren't dead they've become, get this, a regular part of the gaming and electronic interface spearheaded to the general public with the help of the white miracle machine. Before motion controls seemed arcane snake oil. Now they aren't the miracle promised but everyone knows what they can do and can expect and they are improving on technical limitations and offers. As robust or meaningful subset gaming they are here and get Also unlike Joan and Sony Nintendo tend to know how to aim if not the highest than a stable bit. The GC was a loss of reputation and support not profits or purpose.

GrimHeaper:

Foolproof:

xPixelatedx:

Tablets, like any PC, aren't gaming specific devices; it just so happens you can play games on them, like phones. You can keep contributing the success of Nintendo to waggle/3D/tablets, but in all honesty gimmicks don't create a loyal gaming fan base, the games do. It is also hilarious how many times we keep have this "History won't repeat itself" topic whenever a Nintendo console comes out, even though it keeps totally repeating itself.

Speaking of which, I hope everyone is enjoying their Vitas, lol.

Yes, because fucking once is a pattern.

The Wii never "repeated itself". In case you hadn't noticed, the Gamecube was a dismal failure, and blind luck made them bounce back from it.

And you wanna know the big difference between tablets and PC's? A tablet isn't complex - you see a game, you can buy it in 3 minutes, have it installed in half a minute, and learn how to play it in 10 seconds. Unlike the PC, where you need a masters degree to work the fucking thing if you want to game on it.

The WiiU is more complicated than its chief rival, not less. That means it will not attract the casuals. And with its main strength lost, it will be right smack back in the position it was with the Gamecube - relying solely on its loyal fans.

The Gamecube didn't sell a lot, but it still made profits unlike the ps3.

So it was a dismal failure that managed to sell a third of what the Ps3 has, but they didn't even try to make a good machine, so they wouldn't sell at a good deal for the consumer.

Darmani:

Foolproof:
Sony's slippage into third place was the result of an act of hubris that they are incredibly unlikely to repeat. Besides which, the elements for Microsofts western dominance come basically from the self perpetuating cycle of it being seen as the dominant console. Its strength has lay in the third party games it shares with the Ps3 for years, it only succeeds because of a lower price and because it is seen as the ubiquitous console - both of which could easily change in the next generation.

With an early focus on games to contrast it with Microsofts more-than-likely lack of the same (all of their internal studios, and even most of their third party partners, are working on 360 games, with virtually no-one left over to work on the Xbox 720 exclusives), Sony will likely regain the position of dominance they held for the 5th and 6th generation.

You must admit, the Ps3's lack of success can be attributed largely to a freak case of hubris, one incredibly unlikely to repeat itself.

The Vita does not require me to conclude let alone admit or point to a freak case.
Now I'll give you they may have more lineup...lined up as to the nextbox...but really does it matter?
Again the next gen consoles will not be made over the current limits of PC tech or if they are will become the PS3 all over again. and t he largest problems of development are combination of porting *down* to console limitations and making things to spec in conjunctions with hardware and services. So Third parties, second parties, etc will still be there. Doing more of the same for console players only using the proprietary features of each provider. Again technically the WiiU is a joke with a look at specs its the arrangement and conveniences the layout that makes it possible product out for the masses and something you can't *quite* substitute a PC for without working at it enough specialized equipment purpose is more enticing.

You seriously think MS can't just pullup or dust off or pump up a current project when its been practically snaring the PC market to their standards and so on? Really that's the issue with MS they may not need to make killer app IP. Everyone will gladly, seeing them as the viable alternative for high end and with nintendo's reputation and perceived flaws and market and Sony's lack of western PC relationship, GIVE THEM THEIR OWN. If not the next Halo or GoW (either of them) then the next Minecraft, etc. They have dozens of people they could exalt from the xbla level and again that's assuming they wanna go AAA which is seriously being derided across the board. You can't succeed on the Nintendo console, their IP drowns yours and they have so many demands and I hear they gnaw your bungholes with rats if you suggest you change the temperature of the coffee. MS just has you sell half your first born, regardless if their legitmate or not. So we make two games for them under their thumb my graduation party mistake gets a home in the MS product testing farms, become a big name developer and strike out on our own. Or even better you can be like the half dozen Wii or Kinect modders who get bankrolled or RECRUITED by MS to make them competitive gaming products.

Sony can't bring out the Last Guardian.

Because as you can tell from how EA, Activision, Sega, Capcom, Konami, Ubisoft etc treat the PC market, that is CLEARLY where the games will be. Yep, thats whats always decided gaming for the last decade - the PC, its been the focus of all of those developers who have made it their primary platform. Its totally the only thing they focus on and care about.

And if you want to talk that kind of crap about indie games, I'd like to point out the relationship Sony has with Indie devs, since you apparently missed it. Tell me, whens The Unfinished Swan, that indie critical darling, coming to the PC? What? Its not? Well, surely you've got Journey - no, you don't have that either? How about Papa and Yo - no, not that either? Sony are the people who actually have a relationship with fostering indie dev creativity and bankrolling them, and devs care more about that than the PC platform? What a shock!

considering that the PC platform is not actually owned by a company, we'd just have to look at valve and steam

hmm looks like we got a fuckton of games here, a lot of them indie, yeah maybe valve isn't the publisher for more than a handful of them but you'd have to admit that most of those developers are living based on how much steam does for them, valve might as well be their rich uncle

there's even more than three good games!

(which is odd considering that valve is not able to count that far)

Vault101:

GrimHeaper:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_games
1220 games, tiny, + all game cube games.
It's getting very expensive to make a high end game now, I'm not sure everyone wants to risk their entire company to make a single game.

alot of them were ports or mediocre, or crap at worst

the fact is was the Wii was simply not running in the same leauge as the other consoles, the big games that peopel talked about...Assasins creed, Batman AA, Mass Effect were found elsewhere

now weather or not you think this was a problem or not you cant deny that it makes it very unapealing to the "core" market...Ive owned both a PS3 and a PC and you know where its at? not exclusives as far as Im concerned

Infamous series was downright brilliant yes...but aside from that Uncharted is an amusing distraction at best and nothing else interested me....aside from Gears of war I couldnt think of anything I would want as far as the Xbox went

all the games Ive played (and loved) with the exception of Infamous have been multiplatform titles...for me thats important

but then the Wii sold enough anyway...so take that how you will (I still think it was a shitty gaming systm)

Are those excuses I hear?
I could say the same for many consoles.
You know what the core market goes towards? Value.

Foolproof:

GrimHeaper:

Foolproof:
Yes, because fucking once is a pattern.

The Wii never "repeated itself". In case you hadn't noticed, the Gamecube was a dismal failure, and blind luck made them bounce back from it.

And you wanna know the big difference between tablets and PC's? A tablet isn't complex - you see a game, you can buy it in 3 minutes, have it installed in half a minute, and learn how to play it in 10 seconds. Unlike the PC, where you need a masters degree to work the fucking thing if you want to game on it.

The WiiU is more complicated than its chief rival, not less. That means it will not attract the casuals. And with its main strength lost, it will be right smack back in the position it was with the Gamecube - relying solely on its loyal fans.

The Gamecube didn't sell a lot, but it still made profits unlike the ps3.

So it was a dismal failure that managed to sell a third of what the Ps3 has, but they didn't even try to make a good machine, so they wouldn't sell at a good deal for the consumer.

Profits aren't determined by sales and the gamecube was more powerful than the ps2 THAT ERA and was sold at a good deal.
You're just being flatout ignorant of what actually happened.
The ps3 is a massive failure even with the huge amount they sold and so is the vita with the small amount they are selling it because they are SELLING AT A LOSS. A huge one at that.
Sony is literally circling the drain because of their tactics regarding their products and it's video game branch is the most profitable, that's sad.

GrimHeaper:
Are those excuses I hear?
I could say the same for many consoles.
You know what the core market goes towards? Value.

what?

yes theres a degree of subjectiviy...but I still maintain that the "crap factor" is much higher in the Wii's 3rd party line-up....but that doesnt matter

I'm not using the Wii as some kind of gauge as to how the Wi-U will do (as for that I'm a little cynical)

Im talking about the Wii on its own and, I still maintain my point, for your "Core" gamer it does not come up to scratch.....

canadamus_prime:
Meh, hardcore gamers are dickheads so what ya gonna do?

BTW, my impression of the Bayonetta WiiU whiners would go a little something more like "Waah waah, I'm a whiny little bitch! Waah waah!"

You know, it's funny.

I love my complex, single-player experiences. I play in the online arena often. I recently got back into competitive gaming. I miss the old games. I miss the old consoles. And I don't like where a good portion of the industry is heading.

YET, as far as gamer monikers go, I would never even consider calling myself "hardcore". Given that the "hardcore" gamers often act like whiny, arrogant, self-entitled, elitist pricks. Ones who will look for anything to bitch about.

So..yeah. You're right. Hardcore gamers are dickheads.

Vault101:

GrimHeaper:
Are those excuses I hear?
I could say the same for many consoles.
You know what the core market goes towards? Value.

what?

yes theres a degree of subjectiviy...but I still maintain that the "crap factor" is much higher in the Wii's 3rd party line-up....but that doesnt matter

I'm not using the Wii as some kind of gauge as to how the Wi-U will do (as for that I'm a little cynical)

Im talking about the Wii on its own and, I still maintain my point, for your "Core" gamer it does not come up to scratch.....

The playstation 3 has 760 games.
360 929.
I'm sure if you actually went thorough them all it isn't as big as a gap as you would think Considering the Wii has the most games out of that gen.

Foolproof:
snip

The hilarity of listing a small handful of "indie games" being on the PS3, and comparing those to the innumerable wealth of indie titles available on PC as a sign of the PS3 being "friendly" to indie devs, aside, I have to point out something:

The moment an "indie" game is funded and published by a major company, like in your example (Sony), it is no longer an "indie" game.

Unless you were under the impression that a game with, at times, "gimmicky" game-play, exaggerated artistic design, and/or unique styling is "indie".

If so, I really think you need to look up the definition of "independent".

Vigormortis:

canadamus_prime:
Meh, hardcore gamers are dickheads so what ya gonna do?

BTW, my impression of the Bayonetta WiiU whiners would go a little something more like "Waah waah, I'm a whiny little bitch! Waah waah!"

You know, it's funny.

I love my complex, single-player experiences. I play in the online arena often. I recently got back into competitive gaming. I miss the old games. I miss the old consoles. And I don't like where a good portion of the industry is heading.

YET, as far as gamer monikers go, I would never even consider calling myself "hardcore". Given that the "hardcore" gamers often act like whiny, arrogant, self-entitled, elitist pricks. Ones who will look for anything to bitch about.

So..yeah. You're right. Hardcore gamers are dickheads.

Well usually I don't like to generalize like that, but until someone shows me a hardcore gamer that isn't a complete dickhead I'm going to stand by that one.

Capcom and several other major publishers are either porting Japanese only or rare portable software (gimmicks prior) to tablets and app stores and the like. Tablet and cell gaming is ALSO kinda here to stay. Remember this time last year and we were predicting the death of the handheld to the smartphone as a whole. Aside from android model confusion and data plan cutoffs what's changed, hmm? So at the least we can't ignore the PC gaming scene and the market is ready for digital and the indies are mostly there so between Steam, Kickstarter, and XBLA a lot of sweetness is coming down the pike.

Many start ups or steam darlings want the distribution and cash that comes with going console. Hence my metaphor getting into bed with Nintendo is percieved as doomed to failure and misreable. Steam is godsent but not quite as much profitable place its more the AA. Console even just digital on Xbox is a step to the majors. Its costly step so you have to be ready to really pay up but the gains the money and the independence/prestige as a serious producer who comades the market are enticing to the indie developer or startup group.

Sony does court some major talent or could when they pretty much invented a 200 dollar DVD player that played exclusive games like KH, FFX, and other franchises that were godly with other developments. It tried to make lightning strike twice with Blu Ray and PS3 and it technically worked... just not as much as needed to make it a major profit.

GrimHeaper:
The playstation 3 has 760 games.
360 929.
I'm sure if you actually went thorough them all it isn't as big as a gap as you would think Considering the Wii has the most games out of that gen.

so were on numbers now?....that doesnt mean jack

the Wii may have had alot of games but how many of them were actually worth one's time? because you can't deny there was mountaints and mountains of shovelware

and ok, taking out the shovel ware what decent 3rd party games were there?

the point I am trying to stress here is that the majority of games I've played have all been 3rd party titles...the Wii had jack shit in terms of 3rd party because hardly anyone was there to develop for it

heres another qustion...did you have a systm aside from the Wii?

GrimHeaper:

Foolproof:

GrimHeaper:

The Gamecube didn't sell a lot, but it still made profits unlike the ps3.

So it was a dismal failure that managed to sell a third of what the Ps3 has, but they didn't even try to make a good machine, so they wouldn't sell at a good deal for the consumer.

Profits aren't determined by sales and the gamecube was more powerful than the ps2 THAT ERA and was sold at a good deal.
You're just being flatout ignorant of what actually happened.
The ps3 is a massive failure even with the huge amount they sold and so is the vita with the small amount they are selling it because they are SELLING AT A LOSS. A huge one at that.
Sony is literally circling the drain because of their tactics regarding their products and it's video game branch is the most profitable, that's sad.

Given it was sold for more than it cost to make, it wasn't a good deal for the consumer by default. Also, no, the Gamecube wasn't more powerful than the Ps2, the Gamecube had a higher CPU clock speed than the PS2 but there is more to a CPU's power than just clock speed, Use AMD vs Intel as an example. AMD's CPU's are almost always far higher clocked than Intel's yet the Intel's completely destroy AMD in every bench test.

Besides that, The PS2 had 32mb of main ram while the Gamecube only had 24mb. Not to mention the fact that it didn't use those stupid fucking smaller discs.

Also, given you're 6 years old, this may come as a suprise to you, but selling consoles at a loss is how you're supposed to do it - you make the profits back through software sales.

Vigormortis:

Foolproof:
snip

The hilarity of listing a small handful of "indie games" being on the PS3, and comparing those to the innumerable wealth of indie titles available on PC as a sign of the PS3 being "friendly" to indie devs, aside, I have to point out something:

The moment an "indie" game is funded and published by a major company, like in your example (Sony), it is no longer an "indie" game.

Oh, so you're a hipster who doesn't like indie games based on them being smaller and more creative, but on the fact that they pointlessly eschew corporate help that comes with no strings attached. That makes this argument a lot simpler.

And no, the Pub Fund is why Sony are more indie friendly, given its literally them giving free money to indie developers.

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