Jimquisition: Why the Wii U May Have Already "Won" Next-gen

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
 

AzrealMaximillion:

Mr.Mattress:

AzrealMaximillion:

And people have to stop carrying this notion that Nintendo is "printing money" and "laughing to the bank". All 3 console manufacturers have lost money this generation. Nintendo actually lost twice as much money as MS this fiscal year, and after slumping 3rd party sales its not hard to see why.

This is true, but please take into account that this year was Nintendo's first ever fiscal loss. Before that, they were indeed printing money off the DS and the Wii. They were making money while the XBox and PS3 hemorrhaged it. You still have a point, that Nintendo's lack of 3rd Party support on the Wii as well as the Price Cut on the 3DS (Which resulted at them selling the units at a loss) was what caused them to loose money this year. Regardless, they were indeed "Printing Money" and "Laughing To The Bank" via 2006-2011.

I've taken this into account. I still find it hard to justify the use of phrases like that when if Nintendo really were "printing money" they would not have posted a loss. That loss didn't come from one year of lackluster 3rd party support. Wii sales took a massive nosedive 2 years ago and any software sales that weren't a 1st party title didn't move many units for about the same time.

To me "printing money" implies making money enough money to not post a loss for a long time.

Well, also consider that they've been making video games since the late 70's. If this is their first ever fiscal loss ever, then they have indeed been printing money for a long, long time.

Okay, Wii U might win because it won't compete with Smart TVs, point taken.

Anyone care to tell me how this won't compete (and lose) against other consoles (or PCs) that will inevitably connect to Android/iOS devices that we'd already have? Steam's already got a good thing going for its Big Picture platform, and I'd say there's little in the way of them developing a "second screen" expansion for devs that don't want to pay Nintendo's licensing fees, especially when we already have at least one gaming tablet with buttons being released.

That's been the story of Nintendo lately, really. They've always just wanted to make video game platforms, stubbornly refusing to focus too much on anything else. Whatever your opinion of the Wii was, there's no arguing it was able to compete in this increasingly unfocused market.

They're still irritating me to an extent, though, because grouchy old codger that I am, I just want to play a game with a fucking controller. That's all I want! Not to gesture vaguely at the screen or scratch it up stabbing at it with a pen or my finger or whatever the fuck; just buttons. THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH BUTTONS, AND MOST (though admittedly not all) GAMES THAT ESCHEW THEM JUST FORCE US TO USE MORE COMPLICATED AND LESS ACCURATE WAYS OF REPRODUCING WHAT THE BUTTONS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO DO.

UNMITIGATED ANGST.

The PC has ironically become where most of my video games are being played, because due to the variable nature of players' systems, all of the gimmicky bullshit that is seventy five percent of modern console games isn't anywhere near that market.

Joccaren:

lord.jeff:
I still think the WiiU will lose, namely do to it's weak graphics, I'm not a graphics snug but looking at the Wii I believe that what hurt it the most the fact that it didn't even have the option to support multiplatform titles which directly led to it's tiny library that so crippled it in the long run. The WiiU may be able to offer a unique experience but if Nintendo doesn't have a plan to up it's capability when Sony and Microsoft come around, every developer is gonna jump the Wii ship again and move to a console that has the power to make what they want instead of a console with a novel gimmick. Not to mention releasing new console without Sony or Microsoft not even releasing rumors of is also gonna hurt it for two reasons that I can see, one it gives Sony and Microsoft a great chance to improve the WiiU idea and have it in the console right off the bat, which the Move and Kinetic proves both companies are willing to and capable of doing. The second reason is I think most people would rather campare consoles to make sure they have the best value I can imagine a lot of people not buying a WiiU simply becuase they want to see it stack up against the PS4 or Xbox720 first.

If that were the case developers would have switched over to the PC long ago, as its graphics potential is FAR higher than even the Nextbox and PSnext could hope to offer. In general you'll find they probably hold a similar idea to gamers in such cases where whoever has the highest graphics doesn't matter too much. The WiiU has better graphics than the current PS3 and Xbox 360 from memory, so that'll probably count as good enough for most people - seeing as worse graphics count as good enough ATM.

PC is an a different boat then consoles so I really don't count it in the argument. I'm gonna point to the Dreamcast as an example of my point great launch but it got forgotten once the PS2/gamecube/xbox came out because it had no way of competing against the higher teched consoles.

lord.jeff:

PC is an a different boat then consoles so I really don't count it in the argument. I'm gonna point to the Dreamcast as an example of my point great launch but it got forgotten once the PS2/gamecube/xbox came out because it had no way of competing against the higher teched consoles.

Eh, I'm of the opinion that the Playstation, not the PS2, Gamecube or Xbox is what killed the Dreamcast.
That and incompetence on Sega's part.

But that's another topic entirely.

Edit: For one condescending fuckhead in the audience.

Atmos Duality:

lord.jeff:

PC is an a different boat then consoles so I really don't count it in the argument. I'm gonna point to the Dreamcast as an example of my point great launch but it got forgotten once the PS2/gamecube/xbox came out because it had no way of competing against the higher teched consoles.

Eh, I'm of the opinion that the PSX, not the PS2, Gamecube or Xbox is what killed the Dreamcast.
That and incompetence on Sega's part.

But that's another topic entirely.

Actually If I may...it was because a lot of faith was lost with the prior system, Sega had bled money so were unstable (Nintendo's lost money but they have reserves-a-plenty) and the PS2 hype was really fever pitch and offering something of a singular revolution of multi-function livingroom piece at a time with no competition. DVD caught on and people craved players that were affordable. While not *quite* two for one you could justify buying a DVD player that played games AND was backwards comptaible (another MASSIVE benefity). PS2 was a real revelation in gaming tech and affordability offers.

Blu-Ray is here, yes, but well there are now $60 players a plenty not riots at limited release $99 ones ala DVD in early 00s, along with Blu-Ray drives on gaming compatible PCs which are cheaper. Also the new media hotness is streaming and interaction with such services which the WiiU *does* offer. Finally somehow even to my expectation (likely affordability) The Wii won against the massive library backwards compatible behemoth. First it was, originally, BWC itself with gamecube, then made some nice rereleases on Virtual console, finally it marketed to a neglected but primed market, regular consumers intrigued by technogagdetry that ALSO were able to use it intuitively (Wiisports and minigame collection motion control) add in some naff about making you healthy with attendant turn your living room into a party center bits, which WAS a surprising thing. It out fought the impressive higher end behemoth of PS3. So now they can effectively afford to sell one at a lower price with more stats and features.

Darmani:

Actually If I may...it was because a lot of faith was lost with the prior system, Sega had bled money so were unstable (Nintendo's lost money but they have reserves-a-plenty) and the PS2 hype was really fever pitch and offering something of a singular revolution of multi-function livingroom piece at a time with no competition. DVD caught on and people craved players that were affordable. While not *quite* two for one you could justify buying a DVD player that played games AND was backwards comptaible (another MASSIVE benefity). PS2 was a real revelation in gaming tech and affordability offers.

The PS2 was an overpriced DVD player when DVDs were new. That was the only selling point of the PS2 for the first year or two, because I can count on one hand the number of games I remember being worth a shit (Jedi Starfighter, and Armored Core 2).

Of course, right after that we got the Blockbuster Blitz. FF10, MGS2, GTA3. But that was about three years after the Dreamcast.

That said, I say that the PS2 was an extension of the Playstations's success due to backwards compatibility, and that's why I say the Playstation killed the Dreamcast. You lost nothing by nabbing a PS2, because you now effectively owned a Playstation.

Going any further than that would be going WAYYY off-topic.

It out fought the impressive higher end behemoth of PS3. So now they can effectively afford to sell one at a lower price with more stats and features.

That's because the Wii didn't actually fight the PS3.
The market diverged a bit, and Nintendo gobbled it up.

It found a different market entirely, while barely dipping their toes into core gaming.
The WiiU will have access to ports of yesteryear and maybe a neat family game here and there, but if they make actual gains among core-gamers I will be stunned.

The first Wii was a fad, and it bit me once. Burned fast, burned bright, then burnt out with an audible *poof* in late 2010.
I have a Wii, and it is to date, the most useless console I have owned (though the 3DS is a strong contender...but at least I didn't pay for that one).

So color me jaded, but I'm not very hopeful for the WiiU.

Edit: Because you can't make one goddamned mistake on the internet without some pedantic crusader making a scene of it.

It's doubly worse for Xbox since you have to pay to access features and apps that are free on other platforms. Screw Microsoft.

Smart TVs are still slow and cumbersome with only the latest models having the full list of features. TVs are not replaced frequently so they do not provide real competition to consoles as media centers...and they don't play games. So claiming that TVs will have the same list of features as future consoles is simply wrong.

The Wii U's focus may be on the games, but most of those games are already out on the 360 or PS3, meaning that there will not be much incentive to upgrade, and considering the hardware in it, it won't be able to do much beyond what the existing consoles can do.

You also fail to expand on the comparison of the Wii U as a tablet. You say that it prevents fights over the TV, but why not just get a tablet then? A tablet has more functionality and the "cool" factor. This makes the independence point completely irrelevant.

You keep harping on about TV's being the threat...but TV's don't play games! Tablets and phones have all the functionality of the consoles (albiet less power) whilst also having a quick replacement cycle and more profit for devs and publishers. You really are barking up the wrong tree entirely as smartphones & tablets are the competition, not the TV.

Atmos Duality:

lord.jeff:

PC is an a different boat then consoles so I really don't count it in the argument. I'm gonna point to the Dreamcast as an example of my point great launch but it got forgotten once the PS2/gamecube/xbox came out because it had no way of competing against the higher teched consoles.

Eh, I'm of the opinion that the PSX, not the PS2, Gamecube or Xbox is what killed the Dreamcast.
That and incompetence on Sega's part.

But that's another topic entirely.

A console that wasn't released outside of Japan killed the Dreamcast?
It was the bad timing and rediculous price-point. I'm not sure why people try to say otherwise.

Mr.Mattress:

AzrealMaximillion:

Mr.Mattress:

This is true, but please take into account that this year was Nintendo's first ever fiscal loss. Before that, they were indeed printing money off the DS and the Wii. They were making money while the XBox and PS3 hemorrhaged it. You still have a point, that Nintendo's lack of 3rd Party support on the Wii as well as the Price Cut on the 3DS (Which resulted at them selling the units at a loss) was what caused them to loose money this year. Regardless, they were indeed "Printing Money" and "Laughing To The Bank" via 2006-2011.

I've taken this into account. I still find it hard to justify the use of phrases like that when if Nintendo really were "printing money" they would not have posted a loss. That loss didn't come from one year of lackluster 3rd party support. Wii sales took a massive nosedive 2 years ago and any software sales that weren't a 1st party title didn't move many units for about the same time.

To me "printing money" implies making money enough money to not post a loss for a long time.

Well, also consider that they've been making video games since the late 70's. If this is their first ever fiscal loss ever, then they have indeed been printing money for a long, long time.

"Printing money" and making money are two completely different things.

If Nintendo were printing money since the 70s, they would have Microsoft/Apple Inc profits at this point. I doubt that Nintendo was printing money when Sony's Playstation brand slaughtered them in sales for 2 consecutive generations.

Granted, Nintendo wasn't posting losses either, but their 3rd party software has been taking hits since the N64 for various reasons.

I'm not saying that Nintendo has been limping along by any means, but to say that they've been "printing money" is an still a bit of an exaggeration all things considered.

The Cool Kid:

A console that wasn't released outside of Japan killed the Dreamcast?

*glances at US Playstation, and lack of a Dreamcast*
Yeah, I'd say it did. Only, minus that whole bit about it being Japan-only.

Playstation. PSX. Same bloody thing.

Just be glad I didn't call it PS1, because some pedantic asshole might say that it came out after the Playstation as if it fucking mattered.

It was the bad timing and rediculous price-point. I'm not sure why people try to say otherwise

Yeah, that's...half of what I said.
So, bad timing. What does that mean? Who cares? Some random nobody on the Internet told me it doesn't matter, so I shouldn't discuss it any further!

Thanks for the oversimplification.
I was worried I might actually be approaching something resembling discussion.

Atmos Duality:

The Cool Kid:

A console that wasn't released outside of Japan killed the Dreamcast?

*glances at US Playstation, and lack of a Dreamcast*
Yeah, I'd say it did. Only, minus that whole bit about it being Japan-only.

Playstation. PSX. Same bloody thing.

Just be glad I didn't call it PS1, because some pedantic asshole might say that it came out after the Playstation as if it fucking mattered.

It was the bad timing and rediculous price-point. I'm not sure why people try to say otherwise

Yeah, that's...half of what I said.
So, bad timing. What does that mean? Who cares? Some random nobody on the Internet told me it doesn't matter, so I shouldn't discuss it any further!

Thanks for the oversimplification.
I was worried I might actually be approaching something resembling discussion.

No the Playstation is a console, the PSX is a different console that was released in Japan only. Don't pretend this is a petty semantic issue - the PSX was a Japanese only DVR.

Don't have a tantrum because you got the name wrong; be mature enough to admit a mistake instead of swearing in a bid to justify it.

Bad time means that it was released too early - the line up for existing consoles hadn't ended. If you want a discussion then drop the attitude because at the moment it seems nothing more then hormonally arrogant and aggressive; how's that working out for you champ?

Nintendo has always been my favourite out of the three companies, for one reason. Microsoft and Sony make their money mainly from their third party games and subscription services, and are only confident enough with their consoles to up graphics capability a tiny bit, slap on a bigger number and call it "the next big thing," where Nintendo are always looking to improve their console, at a slight expense of gameplay ideas and an even bigger price in the games and characters departments. Even then, Nintendo have still managed to bring out some stunning games - Pikmin, anyone?

Nintendo might have gotten a number of things wrong recently but I applaud them for at least having the balls to try, and even if the current market is baying for more of everything that the other two are boasting, I'll be surprised if the big N go under any time soon.

The Cool Kid:

No the Playstation is a console, the PSX is a different console that was released in Japan only. Don't pretend this is a petty semantic issue - the PSX was a Japanese only DVR.

Fine. I was wrong.
I'll make the changes if it pleases court.

Atmos Duality:

The Cool Kid:

No the Playstation is a console, the PSX is a different console that was released in Japan only. Don't pretend this is a petty semantic issue - the PSX was a Japanese only DVR.

Fine. I was wrong.
I'll make the changes if it pleases court.

You have a serious attitude problem.

The Cool Kid:

You have a serious attitude problem.

And look at all the fucks I give.
You have anything RELEVANT to add, or are you going to just wag your finger at me some more?

Atmos Duality:

The Cool Kid:

You have a serious attitude problem.

And look at all the fucks I give.
You have anything RELEVANT to add, or are you going to just wag your finger at me some more?

How's that attitude working out for you in r/l champ?

The Cool Kid:

How's that attitude working out for you in r/l champ?

Yeah, that's what I thought. Nothing relevant.

Atmos Duality:

The Cool Kid:

How's that attitude working out for you in r/l champ?

Yeah, that's what I thought. Nothing relevant.

Not very well then.
And here endeth the lesson on self-reflection.
Dreamcast died due to a bad line up and too high a price point. Wii U will be hurt by exactly the same issue.

J Tyran:
There is no need to have "smart" functionality built into the TV...

They're putting it in there because the chips which can handle smart software, and the chips which can only do the dumb stuff like help you change channels, are almost the same price now thanks to improvements in technology. So they figure "Eh, it has the ability, might as well throw it in." I don't fault them for that.

It's the same deal with 3D. Once a TV has lower than a certain refresh, the cost to add 3D capability becomes minuscule. They might as well through it in since it's practically free.

However, people are diluting themselves if they believe that smart TVs and 3D are the wave of the future that's going to own the market. They're just another feature and they'll be pretty mundane soon.

The Cool Kid:

*snip*

Blah blah, antagonism and pretension.
If you care that much, tell it to the mirror.

Dreamcast died due to a bad line up and too high a price point. Wii U will be hurt by exactly the same issue.

They also kind of launched into a market dominated by Sony, who offered more and better for less, and was less than two years from a new system with backwards compatibility.

Which combined with a weak lineup, was analogous to rolling around on a barbed-wire mattress, covering yourself in raw steaks and jumping into shark infested waters.

Yeah Sega was kinda stupid.
Props to them for breaking Nintendo's monopoly, but they obviously could not last.

As for the WiiU. I'm not confident in its long term strength.
Of course, I said the same thing about the Wii, and at least in the states, price initially wasn't an inhibiting factor due to the shortage.

The question I'm asking is if the lightning will strike twice, and will the WiiU launch as another fad with little to no core games? Or will it arrive with a magnificent thud as the 3DS did?

Atmos Duality:

The Cool Kid:

*snip*

Blah blah, antagonism and pretension.
If you care that much, tell it to the mirror.

Dreamcast died due to a bad line up and too high a price point. Wii U will be hurt by exactly the same issue.

They also kind of launched into a market dominated by Sony, who offered more and better for less, and was less than two years from a new system with backwards compatibility.

Which combined with a weak lineup, was analogous to rolling around on a barbed-wire mattress, covering yourself in raw steaks and jumping into shark infested waters.

Yeah Sega was kinda stupid.
Props to them for breaking Nintendo's monopoly, but they obviously could not last.

As for the WiiU. I'm not confident in its long term strength.
Of course, I said the same thing about the Wii, and at least in the states, price initially wasn't an inhibiting factor due to the shortage.

The question I'm asking is if the lightning will strike twice, and will the WiiU launch as another fad with little to no core games? Or will it arrive with a magnificent thud as the 3DS did?

From someone who works in the real world, you want to curb that attitude as it won't help you get anywhere. Just a friendly reminder.

The issue with the PS3 was a high price point and small line up but at least it had bluray and a few good, well established exclusives unlike the dreamcast which had just Sonic as an established franchise. I would say the only competition for Sony at this point, and vice-versa, is MS as the Wii is not for the same market as the PS3 or 360 due to the vast differences in releases on the consoles.
I agree that the WiiU in the long term doesn't look strong:
1)Most of the line up is already out or will be out on existing consoles.
2)Hardware means if the next MS or Sony consoles come out in 2013, the WiiU will be last-gen in one year. In a recession who wants to spend $300 on last gens tech? The Wii U I doubt will have the same success as the Wii as it's no longer a "cool" accessory; pads and phones have taken over that market, and with many a wii collecting dust in the living room, parents & kids will be hard pushed to replace a dust-catcher.

I think it'll go the way of the 3DS without the massively increased sales after a price drop.

The Cool Kid:

From someone who works in the real world, you want to curb that attitude as it won't help you get anywhere. Just a friendly reminder.

Mate, I already do that. I go online to blow off steam.
Probably a bad place to do so, but it's what I've got.

My work includes dealing with and educating the public, so as impossible as it is to believe, I am not a colossal anti-social asshole offline.

But goddamn did you catch me on a bad day, amidst a bad week.

I'll give this a rest if you stop trying to talk down to me.

The issue with the PS3 was a high price point and small line up but at least it had bluray and a few good, well established exclusives unlike the dreamcast which had just Sonic as an established franchise. I would say the only competition for Sony at this point, and vice-versa, is MS as the Wii is not for the same market as the PS3 or 360 due to the vast differences in releases on the consoles.

I agree with all of that.
Though I will add that in recent years, Sony is losing it.
Their gaming division is their one department in the black, but after the Vita, I'm left questioning their direction for future consoles.

At this stage, the right competitor could come in and make serious trouble for Sony and Nintendo in the western markets. Who that could be, I dunno. I have many guesses but all of them fairly wild (Apple, Valve, that new cheapie console whose name eludes me now.)

I agree that the WiiU in the long term doesn't look strong:
1)Most of the line up is already out or will be out on existing consoles.
2)Hardware means if the next MS or Sony consoles come out in 2013, the WiiU will be last-gen in one year. In a recession who wants to spend $300 on last gens tech? The Wii U I doubt will have the same success as the Wii as it's no longer a "cool" accessory; pads and phones have taken over that market, and with many a wii collecting dust in the living room, parents & kids will be hard pushed to replace a dust-catcher.

I think it'll go the way of the 3DS without the massively increased sales after a price drop.

That much falls in line with what I'm expecting.
The WiiU is going to play catch-up on the last generation, but at that point, why even bother?
The market is saturated, and you can already see people eager to pack up and move on.
Hell, PC Gaming is on the rise again, and it's looking much stronger due to MS and Sony dragging their feet.

dbenoy:
However, people are diluting themselves if they believe that smart TVs and 3D are the wave of the future that's going to own the market. They're just another feature and they'll be pretty mundane soon.

Good technology always becomes mundane, ground breaking things that people believe will change the market forever often tend to be gimmicks. Smart TVs will eventually worm their way in like smartphones have, sure they will be mundane but thats the whole point. Smartphones are mundane and an every day item, in 5-10 years streaming digital content from the internet and between other devices you own will be the norm too. It will take a little while as people gradually replace TVs they have bought over the last few years, TVs are not something most people replace on a whim so they tend to stick around until they break.

I think Blu Rays days are numbered too, almost the same as when mp3s largely replaced CDs. Content will be digital rather than a physical medium. Look how much better services like net flix are over renting DVDs, instant access to a much larger library and you can watch as many titles as you want and dont have to travel around picking them up.

holy crap! 1:29! that's my poll!
...it's not really a big deal. still though! that made me smile;D

Jim may be right about this. Now if only Nintendo would put out some games for the Wii U they'd be good to go.

I still haven't decided what console I will buy. IF I buy one..

Though I probably will buy a console and a few games.

I am waiting now to see how things are progressing. To much is yet unsure, this last week.. was CRAZY! I have heard much to little about Sony.. I am not joking what is Sony hiding?

At least I know the WiiU, a bit.. and I know Nintendo a bit.. still I mean they definitely need those games.

It just is to unsure yet. Hey it just means I am going to wait it out a bit.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here