Jimquisition: Monster Boobs And Plastic Children

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GTwander:
Every time I get multiquoted in an extremely defensive fashion like that, I know my words hit home, and I feel that much more validated.

I believe that about you, since most of the things you "know" have absolutely no support or corroboration.

GTwander:
You could have chosen to just ignore me, perhaps even phrase your words however you prefer but aimed at dropping the subject.

Silence can be interpreted as assent. I want to make it extremely clear that I in no way endorse or accept the things you're saying. You'll never believe that, but that's okay; I'm not really speaking to you anyway.

GTwander:
Instead, though, you'd obviously rather just constantly argue over it.

Yeah, pretty much. You make completely unsupported and insupportable statements as absolute fact while providing no backing for them but your own narcissistic sense of self-satisfaction, so I can be offended by you without having to respect you enough to take you seriously. You're the perfect chewtoy to sharpen my teeth on.

GTwander:
It essentially just inflates my ego a bit, but I'm going to let you believe what you want to believe: because that's the adult thing to do.

Heh. It's awfully big of you to grant me the privilege to have my own personal beliefs distinct from yours, formed without your approval. It's extremely adult of you to assume my beliefs require your permission.

Jesus Christ, dude.

GTwander:
Still stand by my points 100%, though.

I know you do. You live in a world where any evidence offered to disprove your position is proof of your position. Why wouldn't you stand by your points?

Eri:
Why do people care if the tits are not realistic? WHY? Magic isn't real either, let's throw that out of games. Werewolves aren't real either, let's get rid of those.

Both magic and werewolves are well established and respected elements within certain genres of fiction, both usually have sort of explanation for their existence within the story, both are usually important to their respective stories' plot sometimes even being centerpiece to it.
While you could argue that jello boobs are pretty important to the plot of DOA, I think that says more about DOA than it does about them.

Perhaps if DOA was deliberately billed as some sort of exploration of human sexuality, or even Japanese fetish culture then your argument might be valid. However, DOA attempts to pass itself off as a fighting game. I don't see why excessive detail to breast physics would be a crucial element to a well designed fighting game.

Paragon Fury:

DanDeFool:
[quote="karamazovnew" post="6.389826.15645655"]

No kidding. For me, the breaking point was Seikon no Qwaser, where the heroes get the power to manipulate the chemical elements at will by drinking magic breast milk. Straight from the tap.

I freaking love that show.

The creator obviously gives 0 fucks about anything.

Credit where credit is due; that guy definitely does not give any fucks whatsoever. Though, if you ask me that's part of the problem. That show should just be a straight-up porn, with plenty of fucks to go around.

DanDeFool:

Paragon Fury:

DanDeFool:
[quote="karamazovnew" post="6.389826.15645655"]

No kidding. For me, the breaking point was Seikon no Qwaser, where the heroes get the power to manipulate the chemical elements at will by drinking magic breast milk. Straight from the tap.

I freaking love that show.

The creator obviously gives 0 fucks about anything.

Credit where credit is due; that guy definitely does not give any fucks whatsoever.

You obviously haven't seen Queen's Blade then.
The first 5 minutes has an acid-lactating bunny chick. (it's like something out of a juvenile nightmare)

Balls of steel my friend, balls of steel.

hickwarrior:
Oh boy, let's just get our shields up for this.

I don't know, I think there's a reason that sex dolls exist. Anyway, complaining about this is pointless. A developer has their own style you might not agree with so let them be. You could also tell them there are jobs that do involve what team ninja's doing.

I don't know, I think I just don't care, what with all the 'feminism' confusion I have been reading around here.

CAPTCHA: baked in a pie.

You know captcha, that's just creepy.

I agree, if it's the games intention then why can't people who enjoy stuff like that have what they want. Dead or Alive is a solid enough fighting game. It only becomes an issue if they use it to sell crappy games(X-Blades) or if it's considerably out of place(Metal Gear Solid 4).

I have at least 5 male friends who complain about how flat & unappealing the girls "pancake asses" are in DoA, or Japanese games in general.

image
I suspect they'd prefer Butt Jiggle Physics & Jennifer Lopez booties.

Anyway, I bet Team Ninja are the sort that love shit like Eikan, which is mostly panned by anime otaku in America for it's foreboding distopian future of anime with all sugar & no nutritional value.

No no...I can top this. ::Looks up Japanese ES:Oblivion Body Mod:: Ah, here it is.... Oh yeah, this is REAL classy :p I don't think I can top this one. Good night, gentlemen.
image

DVS BSTrD:
Being such a crowded sea bound country, you can't blame the Japanese for wanting girls with huge... "tracts of land"
But THIS is a bit much.

...Wow.

I think I'm starting to dislike anime for more than bad voice actors or dubs and preferring manga exclusively because rather than toning down the "offensive" material in manga when developing the anime, they tend to find ways of amplifying the "offensive" material.

Don't get me wrong; I'm a fan of High School of the Dead (and I want them to release new chapters already!), but I find the anime equivalent to be down right shameless when representing the manga.

I think it's just down to target audience. Team Ninja think that teenaged boys will want to buy the game because it lets them see big tits moving (realism probably doesn't come into it).

I remember playing a demo of the first DOA - and thinking, "oh look, the tits move - that's different" Followed up by the afterthought "although the movement was unrealistic, it would be more unrealistic to have boobs that big that didn't move at all." So even when I was at the age that i thought about sex pretty much non-stop i didnt find it arousing, nor did it make me want to buy the game.

But at the time, DOA was at least doing something original - no-one had bothered with 'jiggle physics' untill then (at least not to my knowledge)

So the original sales tactic that DOA was based around is still very much in effect. I can't say that I'm impressed by their ingenuity (or lack of it) and from the gameplay I saw in this vid it looks just like a generic fighter if you take away the moving tits. It's even more pointless now that you can get porn videos on just about any device that has internet access, so why the hell would anyone buy a game to jack off to?

At the end of the day I think it's just a bit of fun that appeals to a certain audience and Team Ninja know this. If it offends you, just don't play it - simple. I haven't seen people's opinions towards women changing in any meaningful way because of their representation in a video game. Look at things like cosmopolitan magazine and sex and the city - they're FOR women (primarily) and they still don't do women's image any favours.

Some might say that moving tits are an immature feature for a fighting game to have, but then others might argue that playing a video game at all is an immature thing to do.

GTwander:

DanDeFool:

Paragon Fury:

I freaking love that show.

The creator obviously gives 0 fucks about anything.

Credit where credit is due; that guy definitely does not give any fucks whatsoever.

You obviously haven't seen Queen's Blade then.
The first 5 minutes has an acid-lactating bunny chick. (it's like something out of a juvenile nightmare)

Balls of steel my friend, balls of steel.

I've seen it.

I still find the "Drink breast milk from the tap for power" more ballsy though.

I agree with Jim that Team Ninja should be more honest about their intentions, but I honestly don't see a problem with their zero-G breast fetish. He's entitled to his visceral response, but I think he's blowing the gravity (heh) of the situation out of proportion (heh).

I mean, I like some weird stuff - stuff that's a lot weirder than breasts that don't conform to the laws of gravity.

GTwander:

DanDeFool:

Paragon Fury:

I freaking love that show.

The creator obviously gives 0 fucks about anything.

Credit where credit is due; that guy definitely does not give any fucks whatsoever.

You obviously haven't seen Queen's Blade then.
The first 5 minutes has an acid-lactating bunny chick. (it's like something out of a juvenile nightmare)

Balls of steel my friend, balls of steel.

Nope. I saw that scene. Queens Blade is probably weirder and kinkier on the whole, but Seikon no Qwaser still wins the prize in my book for just being so Goddamn stupid. You had a perfectly decent premise that could.have stood perfectly well on it's own; secret war by superpowered dudes who can control the chemical elements at will. Then, for no reason, the creator says, "oh yeah, and the element-users get their powers by drinking magic breast milk." Oh, and lest we forget, women with bigger tits give you more power.

At least in Queens Blade the sexualization kind of makes sense in the context of the narrative. In Qwaser, it's just so blatantly there for it's own sake, you can't get over it.

I take great exception to this video, specifically the phrase "team Ninja is a good developer". I disagree wholeheartedly. Team Ninja has never produced a great game, their greatest achievements are passable at best and they spend all their time coding jiggle physics (and fail at that too).

Team Ninja couldn't make a good game even if they were expressly forbidden from including unnaturally ridiculous breasts.

Seriously, who the hell cares.

If a developer wants to make a game with women having huge bouncy boobs, then let them.
If a developer wants to make a game with men having impossibly large muscles, then let them.

This doesn't affect you in any way, shape or form so why having would you work yourself up about it?

Thanks Jim for proving that the "prudish Englishman stereotype" still exists.

OT: Yeah Japan is just like that, deal with it.

The thing about fantasy is that it's not reality, that's the point... I'll never have an orgy with identicle rich quintuplits on a yacht in fiji, but I like the fantasy.

I like a lot of things that aren't real, AND THOSE FANTASY FAKE TITS ON THOSE FANTASY ANIME GIRLS ARE ROCKIN! I SAID IT!

AAAAAAAAHHHHH!
image

likalaruku:
No no...I can top this. ::Looks up Japanese ES:Oblivion Body Mod:: Ah, here it is.... Oh yeah, this is REAL classy :p I don't think I can top this one. Good night, gentlemen.
image

5 to 1 chances that mod was made be an American kid, and he just used the turn of phrase "japanese boob mod" because of the usual stereotypes.

Is this guy serious with this episode?
how is it okay to be attracted to a large purple stuffed animal but not large breasts?
This video is just a load of fascist bull crap. Not only is he telling people what they should and shouldn't like, but he's also promoting the idea that we shouldn't be accepting of other cultures or adapt to them, they should change to meet the standards of Americans. people should be free to like whatever the hell they want to like, and you shouldn't have the right to deny them that just because you don't like it.
besides, this shit is just a bunch of stereotyping bull crap, are you honestly going to try and tell me Americans don't like oversize unrealistic breast? I'm guessing you're just choosing to ignore breast implants. and how about all the the other fake physical 'upgrades' they give models and celebrity for advertisements? just going to pretend that doesn't exist?
I can't believe people support this crap, how close minded can you people get?

I agree with Jim, the DOA women looked fucked up and are not sexy. Felicia Day is sexy, Amy Adams is sexy, Charlize Theron is nice looking as well.

this is the same as those playboy games I suppose. Do they even make them any more?

TRG2000:
This video is just a load of fascist bull crap.

The word "fascist" does not mean what you think it does.

for the first time i find myself not agreeing fully with jim

so team ninja has some strange taste.. how about ignoring them then?

it's not really possible to "fix" some people having bad taste

thumbs up from me to team ninja, for not giving in to peer pressure and doing what they want, regardless of what others say
team ninja may have bad taste, but at least they have balls :)

The entire time I was thinking, "the girls would be hot if they had b-cups..."

Okay, I actually signed up JUST to comment on this video (which, I will admit, is pretty embarrassing), but I'm not extremely emotional about the topic or anything; it's just that this conversation seems to be lacking a very obvious criticism (though I've only gone through the first few pages of the thread so sorry if it's been stated previously): that Jim is right in essence, but going at this argument from a completely nonsensical position. That the boobs don't look good/real/&c is a non-argument because MOST erotic or sexualised imagery does not resemble real life; from your basic photoshopped Playboy spread to your ridiculous (& at times, hilarious) hentai, we strive to, in one way or another, 'complete' the human figure; that is to say, create imagery that fulfil's society's standards for beauty. This may be what Team Ninja was attempting to get at in their response regarding cultural differences (definitely a leap there...), but that's another conversation. The point I'm making is that, even in ancient sculptures (Venus of Willendorf, Hellenistic statues, &c), we see attempts at shaping a more 'perfect' human form. That the boobs don't act like boobs is a pretty common theme in a lot of art - and I'm calling smut an art here - but especially video games (deliberate or not). This is where people, rightly in my opinion, are befuddled by your condoning of the attraction to anthropomorphic cats & condemning of nonsensically-bouncy, possibly-sentient breasts.

What's REALLY problematic about sexualised women in video games (this holds true for pretty much any fictional woman), and it was only briefly touched on in your commentary, is that they're eye candy when they needn't be - as you stated, 'lifeless dolls' showcased as normality in their respective universes. This is supposed to reflect society's desires when it only reflects (the perceived (by the developers) desires) of 50 per cent of the population. This is what people talk about when discussing heteronormativity. This on top of the fact that, esp. in fighting games, you just beat them up while they moan? THAT'S creepy...

I know the discussions here are pretty infantile and I'm basically screaming into empty space, but I figure someone might read this, maybe even Jim! & who knows what might come of that.

Oh, and lastly, to the people saying their breasts are too big and that 'more than a handful is a waste'? You do realise ACTUAL women exist who do possess very large chests, yeah? And they don't exist solely to carry those things around so that one day your grubby hands can caress them, yeah? You're not cool or progressive for saying 'I don't like big tits', you're dehumanising women - the same as Team Ninja does. 'Grats, you disgusting tosspots. :-)

While I wouldn't say I'm much of a DOA fan, there were a few things Jim said in his video that I want to comment on. Number one being: THE DOA GAMES ARE NOT REALISTIC. And it's pretty obvious they're not suppose to be. Certainly, unrealistic breast physics would be a point of contention if the game was suppose to be realistic (imagine Alex from HL2 with DOA jiggle physics, kinda ruins the mood of the game), but if you look at the character designs, it's pretty clear DOA isn't going for realism, since real people don't look like the DOA girls.

What this means is DOA is "stylized", a word which doesn't always have to apply to art style. Look at the way characters in classic cartoons stretch and squash when they move, that's stylized animation, it's unrealistic for the purposes of achieving whatever "feel" product wants to achieve. In the case of classic cartoons, it's meant to make the characters feel more energetic, while the case of DOA, it's meant to make the characters more erotic. So yes, DOA's breast physics are unrealistic, and the Super Mario games do not accurately depict what being a plumber is. Video games are not reality, so that's normal.

As to the main characters being "children", I'm kinda tired of people on the internet making this joke when it comes to characters in Japanese media. Just to get everyone caught up, this is what a real child looks like:
image

And this is what a DOA character looks like:
image

Do we all understand the difference now? ;)

That is, unless you're one of those people (probably Americans ;)) who count people in their late teens as "children", which is indeed the age that most of the DOA cast is. This would probably be a cultural thing, since the age of consent is 18 in the US, while it's lower in many other countries (for example it's 16 in my home country of Australia, while it's 13 in Japan, where DOA is made). So I guess if you're playing the numbers game, for Americans the DOA cast technically count as "children"..?

But I think what it really comes down to is cultural differences between Japan and the West. In the West, we like our women be to like Marilyn Monroe, with lots of physically mature features (i.e curvy hips, large breasts, plump red lips etc) and it shows in both our pop culture and the way Western women style themselves. Japan favors youthfulness, so things like innocence, a slim figure and large eyes are fashionable (it also helps that most Japanese women are petite anyway). So I can see how someone who is used to the Western fashion for women might think females in the Japanese fashion look like children in comparison. But we don't have the moral high ground here, since our culture often leads to children emulating the fashion of older women. Which results in 12 year olds that look more like they're 20 because of how they're dressed and the makeup they're wearing. Which is just as creepy if you ask me.

As to unrealistic breast size, since it's a video game, and not bound by reality, they could have made it far more unrealistically huge if they wanted to. Hell, take a look around the internet, there's real women with breasts the same, if not larger than the DOA girls. The breast size of the DOA girls isn't near as absurdly huge as the internet makes them out to be. Of course, they're much larger than what would be considered average for a real woman, but again THE DOA GAMES ARE NOT REALISTIC ;)

But if Jim's point was the DOA games are over-sexualised and intended to appeal to creepy perverts... Well duh, we're talking about the DOA games here ;)

FireAza:
image

And this is what a DOA character looks like:
image

.... Is this guy trying to cite examples where DoA character's faces look like children?

I mean, come on!

That's like, pretty damn spot on what people are talking about.

Hell, on faces alone, the kid almost looks more adult.

Faces? There's more to the physical changes one goes though when they grow up than just their face. :\

FireAza:

And this is what a DOA character looks like:
image

Do we all understand the difference now? ;)

That is, unless you're one of those people (probably Americans ;)) who count people in their late teens as "children", which is indeed the age that most of the DOA cast is. This would probably be a cultural thing, since the age of consent is 18 in the US, while it's lower in many other countries (for example it's 16 in my home country of Australia, while it's 13 in Japan, where DOA is made). So I guess if you're playing the numbers game, for Americans the DOA cast technically count as "children"..?

But I think what it really comes down to is cultural differences between Japan and the West. In the West, we like our women be to like Marilyn Monroe, with lots of physically mature features (i.e curvy hips, large breasts, plump red lips etc) and it shows in both our pop culture and the way Western women style themselves. Japan favors youthfulness, so things like innocence, a slim figure and large eyes are fashionable (it also helps that most Japanese women are petite anyway). So I can see how someone who is used to the Western fashion for women might think females in the Japanese fashion look like children in comparison. But we don't have the moral high ground here, since our culture often leads to children emulating the fashion of older women. Which results in 12 year olds that look more like they're 20 because of how they're dressed and the makeup they're wearing. Which is just as creepy if you ask me.

As to unrealistic breast size, since it's a video game, and not bound by reality, they could have made it far more unrealistically huge if they wanted to. Hell, take a look around the internet, there's real women with breasts the same, if not larger than the DOA girls. The breast size of the DOA girls isn't near as absurdly huge as the internet makes them out to be. Of course, they're much larger than what would be considered average for a real woman, but again THE DOA GAMES ARE NOT REALISTIC ;)

But if Jim's point was the DOA games are over-sexualised and intended to appeal to creepy perverts... Well duh, we're talking about the DOA games here ;)

Except for Ayane (16) and Kokoro (16/17) all of the female DoA cast members are 18 or older. Most of are in their 20s - I think the oldest two are Helena and Christie (late 20s).

No children here.

How did I miss this last week? Also, that wasn't a fleshlight, that was just your all-purpose cocksleeve.

And, as ridiculous as this video was, it's weird to say that you have a point. Maybe you might find it attractive when it's the only spankbank material you have, but that's got to be the only excuse. Anyone else doing it is there to beat one's meat to water balloons stapled to a prepubescent girl.

Let us have no suspicion when we find out that these are some of the people funding those creepy ass realdolls.

To be fair if they were based on women who could fight in reality, we'd just make fun of them harder.


We'd even have internet comedy legend Seanbaby giving Japan whaling tips.

wildpeaks:

Ken_J:
*wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble*

This.

TehMoustache:
The boobs in DOA though, yeah no... I didn't enjoy that. I was captivated by their movement sure, but the entire time I was thinking "BOOBS DON'T MOVE LIKE THAT!!!!"

Well it's supposed to simulate invisible hands moving them, that's why they move more than "naturally". And as an owner of similar sized attributes, the movement doesn't seem that weird to me if you take into account the pad simulating hands producing the movement.

So what you're telling me is that these teen girls from DOA are being fondled by ghosts? That's creepy!

TehMoustache:

wildpeaks:

Ken_J:
*wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble*

This.

TehMoustache:
The boobs in DOA though, yeah no... I didn't enjoy that. I was captivated by their movement sure, but the entire time I was thinking "BOOBS DON'T MOVE LIKE THAT!!!!"

Well it's supposed to simulate invisible hands moving them, that's why they move more than "naturally". And as an owner of similar sized attributes, the movement doesn't seem that weird to me if you take into account the pad simulating hands producing the movement.

So what you're telling me is that these teen girls from DOA are being fondled by ghosts? That's creepy!

It's just as surreal as floating objects in games where you can't see your character's hands picking up objects.

Also it's a lot less creepy than boobs moving of their own volition :-D

Willem Dafoe in a fleshlight... sounds like the plot for the next Defoe Mystery game by Yahtzee

wildpeaks:
[Invisible, groping hands are] a lot less creepy than boobs moving of their own volition.

Uh...this might just be my misanthropy speaking, but the idea of some invisible, unstoppable force continuously grabbing and fondling me is way more horrific than spasmodic tits; and that's before we even get to the part where those invisible molesters are doing so for the sake of making me a spectacle in their peep show.

FireAza:
Just to get everyone caught up, this is what a real child looks like:
image

And this is what a DOA character looks like:
image

Do we all understand the difference now? ;)

Spot on, thankyou :)

The Lunatic:

.... Is this guy trying to cite examples where DoA character's faces look like children?
I mean, come on!
That's like, pretty damn spot on what people are talking about.
Hell, on faces alone, the kid almost looks more adult.

Firstly: Jim did a switcharu on his position AFTER the video was made saying it was just about the faces and didn't mention it on his next video so for a majority of viewers his original stance remains unchanged which deserves it's own criticism. Jim obviously doesn't think the fundamental shift in stance means enough to let most viewers know.

Secondly: The body is a whole piece, regardless of the face no one looks at the lower picture and says "oh yeah, what a sexy child". Also that face isn't younger looking than the childs but that's just my opinion. I don't know the DOA characters but she looks Japanese and they tend to naturally look much younger than they are. It's about intent and the body clearly shows it which is a fully formed woman.

Couldn't agree more with Jim.
I like games full of beautiful women, but Team Ninja just never made such a game.
They can't even do it when there's only one woman in the game, like Rachel from Ninja Gaiden.

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