Zero Punctuation: Borderlands 2

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New quest people, find Yahtzee's missing hatred.

Retward: -5 disposition.

lancar:
Overall, I like Borderlands 2 :) At the very least, it's something to pass the time with until XCOM:EU comes out.

Somehow, they made the endboss even easier than in BL1, though. Not sure how they managed that.

I never had any issues with the end boss of the first other than running out of ammo. So I am wondering how they'll manage that. Haven't got to the endboss of BL2 yet, but I'm pretty sure I know what it is.

I'm actually surprised he didn't like the story this time around...I thought it was pretty good.

*SPOILERS*
And while I'm sure this has already been mentioned by somebody, Wilhelm (the giant robot he mentioned) was purposefully easy in the story because Jack WANTED you to take the power core so he could lower Sanctuary's shields.

Icehearted:

It's a "shooter" in the sense that there are guns and you have to point them, but one of the things I found in the first was no matter how good your aim (and my aim is really really good, pad or mouse) unless your stats are high enough standing right next to something and shooting it point blank will have you miss your target at least 50% of the time. Also the rpg elements seemed more an excuse for more grinding. Adding stats to a game to appeal to rpg players as opposed to a real rpg that uses guns (Mass Effect comes to mind) is just weak-ass pandering.

And speaking of pandering, all the memes they're shoving into games now, as if these things were funny to begin with.

Your aim in both the games depends on the gun you use. When they say a massive variety of guns they mean it. Each gun manufacturer in the game has its own strengths or weaknesses that you have to figure out. For example, in the first game if you want to run in and spray bullets everywhere you go with a vladof because of their high rate of fire, but if you want to stay back and get headshots you pick a jakobs or a hyperion for their good accuracy and damage. If you try to snipe with a vladof you'll miss a lot because those guns have horrible accuracy.

Yeah you can get some skills to make that vladof gun more accurate, but in the end you'll still be missing a lot because that gun has inherently bad accuracy.

Also i have never ever grinded in either of the games and i managed to do finish everything without much trouble. Any stat other than gun stats aren't that important.

I find the lack of imps disturbing! Or did I just miss them?

I like the game though, being playing it almost none stop. Still, everybody has a different favorite flavour of ice cream.

Borderlands is the definition of style over substance. Beneath all the colourful characters and pretty visuals lies a shallow, manipulative item grind, boring and repetitive fetch quests copy-pasted a thousand times over, and one of the least interesting character progression systems ever. It's not like anything about the game is especially bad, or not functional, but rather it's about as superficial and unengaging as possible. Played five minutes of Borderlands, you've played the whole game.

Oh wait, there are a few things that suck. Lack of active skills to use, level-scaled damage, poor shooting mechanics and really wonky hitboxes. So there we go.

Yep, exactly the same impression I got from TB's video and bits and piece of uncut footage. Seems like a polished skinner box at best.

Surprised he didn't rage at the cars more.

Easily the worst thing I've come across so far is a timed mission where driving is required, it was absolutely dreadful since the car handles like complete and total ass. I'd say it's gotten worse, it feels worse to me, but that's probably just faulty memory. Either way, hit a slight bump in the road in you do a complete 180. I cannot believe that didn't get fixed, or made less shit at least, it's been left practically untouched.

Yeah, my major problem with the game so far is that it's just too iterative, like, so utterly safe. The envelope just hasn't been pushed even a remote amount, like everything this game does better it does one thing worse, badass ranks are good, terrible timed missions where using the shitty car handling is required, absolutely abhorrent.

tmande2nd:

UnmotivatedSlacker:

tmande2nd:
Good.

Another reason not to buy it.

Stop taking ZP seriously. He's a comedian, not a critic.

Let me guess my comment riled you up because you like Borderlands 2?
I agree with Yahtzee about most games he reviews so yes I do take what he says under lots of consideration.

Zero punctuation isn't a review, it's a piece of entertainment. If you're using these as some sort of yardstick by which to judge the games and not just laughing at the ball and tit jokes. You're doing it wrong.

Watch an actual review, you know. One that goes into detail about how the games actually play.

I killed the big-ass robot that "defeated" team Widdlebiscuit in 10 SECONDS. no joke. I'll record that next time.

PsychedelicDiamond:
Will someone stop giving Yahtzee games that are supposed to be played in multiplayer? I mean, he usually plays single-player only, so he's not gonna enjoy them... we get that by now. Just let him review single player games.

I think it's a legimate point. Not everybody has people to play with that you can trust.
Sure, I can play with some randoms, but then they may accept a quest or something when i'm waiting till the end of the game so the reward will be max level.

Anyways, it seems yahtzee didn't realize ammo and money is picked up by walking over it now.

Well ZP actually is a review but with a lot of comedy. Ben overblows some things, yes, but still it is a review and reviews are oppinions. For example - I like first person jumping puzzles so i give 8/10 to Mirrors Edge (lack of a good story took 1 point) and I give 7.8/10 to Quanum Conundrum (lack of an ending and broken story).

Never liked the approach or feel of either, must agree that it's one of those terrible "meh" games. Not bad enough to hate, not good enough to like, just plain boring mediocrity

Assassin Xaero:

lancar:
Overall, I like Borderlands 2 :) At the very least, it's something to pass the time with until XCOM:EU comes out.

Somehow, they made the endboss even easier than in BL1, though. Not sure how they managed that.

I never had any issues with the end boss of the first other than running out of ammo. So I am wondering how they'll manage that. Haven't got to the endboss of BL2 yet, but I'm pretty sure I know what it is.

Neither did I. That's why I'm surprised they managed to make this one even easier.

LifeMakesMeLOL:
I'm actually surprised he didn't like the story this time around...I thought it was pretty good.

*SPOILERS*
And while I'm sure this has already been mentioned by somebody, Wilhelm (the giant robot he mentioned) was purposefully easy in the story because Jack WANTED you to take the power core so he could lower Sanctuary's shields.

Seriously.
Really the complaint should have been how blindingly obvious the trap was. Yeah - let's take this power-core from the badguy's pet robot and stick it the thing that allows our city to not be obliterated. I'm sure there's no way that could backfire on us ....

If you find the driving to be an issue it means you're playing on a console, because steering with your mouse is hands-down the best driving ever introduced in-game. They got it right in BL and only improved upon it here, the driving is perfect and could easily stand on it's own for another DLC ala Knoxx.

As far as the rest of it - this game is as close to a perfect game (particularly gameplay hours per $) as we've seen for some time...since 2009 if I'm not mistaken.

That this sell-out hipster hates it is all the proof you should need to know it's worth playing...then playing some more.

I used to find this sort of thing cute, but half-clever contrarians are a dime-a-dozen these days, and if I wanted to hear this "it sucks...because it's popular" drivel I'll just walk down to my local coffeehouse.

The game has a few flaws (mostly in weapon functionality - they look amazing, but a few are almost useless. Good thing there's a thousand more to choose from nearby) but the gameplay, writing, combat, everything is mostly solid.

If you dislike this game...well, you may just not know games as well as you could.

I didn't really think this was a review, it was just Yahtzee bitching about everything. Well he is which is own, or however that saying goes. But seriously Yahtzee, this game was good it was funny, it was amazing, and it was a complete overhaul of the original. I feel as if he didn't even go past getting to Sanctuary till he dropped the game and decided to write this review. Come on Yahtzee, you need redo this because you had some sort of hatred to the first.

Well, whatever, worst review by Yahtzee ever.

Yahtzee, I have to give you props. For the first time since the e3 round up episode, I laughed. Board...erlands.......

.,....

..... 2

lol. More of this please. Those over-the-top metaphors you make aren't nearly as funny as just good old-fashioned comic timing.

Borderlands?....More like this game is awesome-lands. Still better than Yahteez's jokes.

I liked the original Borderlands. It was average.

Yahtzee blames the game for something which is his own fault: backtracking. If he wasn't a n00b, he could remember what quests were in an area and complete them all. The fact he does check where quests are and just follows wherever the nav marker points him tells us he hasn't even touched the UI. The GUI is fine in Borderlands, yahtzee's just showing his laziness/fogeyness.

The problem I've had with all of these Loot! style games from Diablo to Amalur and all those in-between is it becomes pure grind. Combat, even at the highest levels of difficulty, is easy enough to handle and lacks in variety enough that you scarcely have to think: the same build, abilities, and tactics are optimum for nearly the whole game. After running through combat on auto-pilot you're punished with the chore of having to sort through your inevitably overloaded inventory, selling all the crap, and swapping out the rare 1 or 2 things that're better than what you already have.
These games need to require the player use different tactics in different engagements. Having many ways to kill enemies is less impactful if they all work nearly every fight. In Borderlands for ex, you may have one of your mapped guns emphasize acid to counter high-armor enemies. Switching guns does not change gameplay: you're still aiming and shooting as before. To make it more dramatic they could make enemies immune to certain types of damage like AD&D foes requiring magic weapons or (counter-intuitively) normal weapons to kill them. Remember in BG2 when a group of spellcasters would require you utilize spells which disrupted casting to defeat them? Even the ME series having certain health-bars (like shields) immune to certain abilities may require you go through a specific sequence of abilities each fight (energy drain, singularity, warp) if you're not 1hk sniping everyone as an inflitrator which requires atleast some decision making in matching the bar colors to your ability type.
Without much variety in combat all these games offer to keep playing is new items. My friends who are self-professed "loot whores" play WoW to satiate that fix. I hate endless nit-picky inventory management, item collection, selling&buying. It makes me dread continued play b/c rather than having some quest end-state specific to my choices, like in Alpha Protocol, to look forward to I have chores as a quest reward.

I really liked the first Borderlands (played 100 hours; not nearly as crazy about it as some, but still), but then I played it in August and was bored stupid by it. I was confused, such a sharp change in opinion doesn't usually just happen to me out of nowhere. It's not like I've been playing many shooters or ARPGs lately to tire me out on the genre. I was worried but still kept my pre-order for Borderlands 2.

So far, it's been disappointing. I was expecting more significant changes, I guess. But that's what I get for ignoring the pre-launch gameplay and skill trees. While I recognized there was very little change from pre-release materials, I still plugged my fingers into my ears, closed my eyes and pretended it was going to be great.

Ranting, based on limited playtime, ahoy: The skill trees are only slightly less boring than they were in the original. The (4 main) characters are as lifeless as the original squad. Why is there only one active skill? We're not brain-dead. Couldn't you have added a toggle button, or a modifier button/key to use maybe 3 or so different abilities? Multiple abilities would be hard to balance? Who cares if they're balanced? The first game wasn't balanced and it was still fun. At least the art assets are awesome, and the few environments I've seen so far are cool. The dialogue is great--I <3 Anthony Burch's stuff. The loot is a bit better in the beginning. The gunplay feels a bit better in general. You still walk really slowly, but at least they seem to have made sprint quicker. Borderlands limited combat system once again demonstrates it's not versatile enough to have interesting boss fights. Boss fights need to be all about the spectacle in this game, because mechanically they're grey dish water. I mean, you can only 1) jump out of the way, 2) sprint out of the way (while losing sight of the boss and not being able to fire :/), 3) damage the boss. Mechanically, there's not much room for any tactics beyond: hope your health and shields last while you shoot them, don't stand in the fire, attempt to dodge the thing that's 8x faster than you, ration out weak minions to second wind yourself, I guess Zer0 can dodge with his ability. And all that was in the first game.

I've played four hours, and have since then been ignoring it. On a somewhat related note, I tried the demo for Torchlight 2 and was impressed with it (played the demo for 6 hours in a day xD). So, I picked that up. 15 hours in and I'm starting to glimpse the end of my interest. Maybe I'll reach 50 hours on this one, eventually. Torchlight the original became boring as a sponge after a collective 30 hours, but I'm sure the sequel will last a bit longer.

I've been buying a lot of games new this year--I still look for deals, like getting new releases for $35 on GreenManGaming)--and I've been not very enthused with any of them except Sleeping Dogs. Maybe I've died inside; I should check on that.

I'm not really surprised he didn't like it, but I definitely enjoyed watching and some of his complaints are very valid. Like the interface. I know they said they were going to improve it, but I think I actually would have preferred the old interface over the new one. Except for the mini map, that is definitely handy.
It is very much the first with more. In both in bad and good departments. The first was kind of boring and tough on a solo run. The second I feel managed to improve on some of the boring aspects, but there were also some points that were just sadistically brutal. Not the "Oh this just got challenging" bits that they were meant to be, nor the "If I don't plan this perfect I'll die" that some games which capitalize on difficulty do, but more of a plain outright "This can't really be done solo" sort of difficulty.
The vehicles probably handle bad, but for some strange reason I've always preferred games with awful vehicle handling. No clue why, I've just noticed the games where I liked the vehicles the most are always the games that get complaints about the crappy handling.

tmande2nd:
Good.

Another reason not to buy it.

Except that little to none of what he said was true. Which is sad. All he bothered getting right was the quest tracker.

Assassin Xaero:

lancar:
Overall, I like Borderlands 2 :) At the very least, it's something to pass the time with until XCOM:EU comes out.

Somehow, they made the endboss even easier than in BL1, though. Not sure how they managed that.

I never had any issues with the end boss of the first other than running out of ammo. So I am wondering how they'll manage that. Haven't got to the endboss of BL2 yet, but I'm pretty sure I know what it is.

I'm still consistently dying from the Warrior, when the Destroyer was as simple as hiding behind a pillar and knowing when to jump.

Zombine3D:
I killed the big-ass robot that "defeated" team Widdlebiscuit in 10 SECONDS. no joke. I'll record that next time.

Good. Because you were supposed to. Because it was a trap. Or did you stop playing the campaign after that?

I have to disagree on this on. If you compare 1 & 2 it's obvious that most every little detail was fleshed out more, and the villain was absolutely amazing. At first he was harmless and funny and then he took the gloves off and there were no more fun and games. And the whole shoot and loot thing, it's basically a single-player MMO. If you look at it like that it's exactly what it's supposed to be. Also you don't need to open every thing, I never opened a cardboard box and I still had enough money and ammo.

I'm kinda glad I didn't buy it in fear of it being exactly like the first (even though I loved the first I really didn't want to play the same thing again). Kinda disappointing because another chance to build off of a great first game did not happen. I'm sure lots of people are enjoying it though.

Adam Jensen:

tmande2nd:
Good.

Another reason not to buy it.

You take ZP seriously? ZP is all about Yahtzee's subjective view of the game and it's supposed flaws taken to an extreme for comedic value.

While indeed you should not take ZP seriously, the games that he is positive about are indeed games worth checking out.

So true. I enjoyed Borderlands but only because I picked it up for about 5 dollars. If I had paid anymore, I would have felt ripped off and I assume the same will be true of Borderlands 2, so once I see that delicious 4 pack on a solid deal, off my friends and I will go.

PsychedelicDiamond:
Will someone stop giving Yahtzee games that are supposed to be played in multiplayer? I mean, he usually plays single-player only, so he's not gonna enjoy them... we get that by now. Just let him review single player games.

BLT is AWESOME in single player and almost none of his complaints hinge on sp vs mp.

teebeeohh:

oh and now there will be people who dislike the game screaming : I AM RIGHT ABOUT A QUESTION OF PERSONAL PREFERENCE; YAHTZEE SAID SO

I AM VALIDATED BECAUSE GUY WHO HATES EVERYTHING HATES THIS!

>.>

NoAccountNeeded:
Sometimes I think Yahtzee lacks comprehension. Just 5 Minutes after beating that "too easy" boss it should be obvious why it was so easy.

Yeah, but I've noticed a lot of people who like this game seem to similarly be clueless here. And it's a five minute later, yes. People have no attention span. I mean, just because the bad guy admits it was a trap doesn't mean people were paying attention.

I've noticed several of my friends are clueless a lot of times IN the game when they tell you exactly what to do. Mighty Morphin, for example.

My conclusion: people have no attention span beyond "go here, shoot this." They then complain about the lack of plot and story and direction and explanation.

fuzzy logic:

Ranting, based on limited playtime, ahoy: The skill trees are only slightly less boring than they were in the original. The (4 main) characters are as lifeless as the original squad.

Maybe the problem is that I played Roland in the original and Axton in this playthrough, but the skill trees I've experienced are drastically more interesting and often game changing. Being able to drop nukes on enemies just from deploying your turret and then having it continue to fire is a pretty drastic change from Roland's rather sedated trees. Even more of a game changer is Axton being able to deploy two turrets. It completely changes how you can run the game, giving you an Axton that can distract, give support fire, and main fire all at the same time. It can essentially make Axton his own team. The skill trees are, by far, improved from my perspective.

Why is there only one active skill? We're not brain-dead. Couldn't you have added a toggle button, or a modifier button/key to use maybe 3 or so different abilities? Multiple abilities would be hard to balance? Who cares if they're balanced? The first game wasn't balanced and it was still fun.

Personally, I don't feel there is a need for more than one Action ability. If you want to drastically change your playstyle, just buy a respec and change where you have put your skill points. For example, if you were fully sniper tree with Zero, you use your action ability to distract enemies and get distance so you can heal and make use of your sniping skills. If you respect and select a fully bloodlust tree Zero, the whole point of his action ability is to give you a massive boost to melee damage that can then be nearly endlessly chained. Your whole combat style goes from "hang back and shoot" to "Get directly in the middle of the fray and knife guys." For me, the sheer diversity the trees create makes adding another Action ability pointless.

Borderlands limited combat system once again demonstrates it's not versatile enough to have interesting boss fights. Boss fights need to be all about the spectacle in this game, because mechanically they're grey dish water. I mean, you can only 1) jump out of the way, 2) sprint out of the way (while losing sight of the boss and not being able to fire :/), 3) damage the boss. Mechanically, there's not much room for any tactics beyond: hope your health and shields last while you shoot them, don't stand in the fire, attempt to dodge the thing that's 8x faster than you, ration out weak minions to second wind yourself, I guess Zer0 can dodge with his ability. And all that was in the first game.

This I don't understand at all. Maybe we play very differently, but there is a huge amount of strategy for me when dealing with boss fights. For example, fighting the constructor that captured roland was a hell of a task. It constantly summoned enemies that could rip into you AND it had ridiculously high health. Using the turret the options become massive. I could drop the turret near the constructor and let it provide fire against the beast while I handle the minions, I could do the exact opposite (having my turret take on the little ones while I concentrate fire), I could repeatedly strafe around the constructor throwing out heavy fire and just avoid minions and save my turret to be a distraction when I need to run away and heal up. This is all going into a boss fight with just one character. As you add more co-op companions, the strategy just keeps increasing. I'd say the only one who lacks tactics beyond SHOOT MORE BULLLETS is Salvador the gunzerker, but that is kind of the point of his class.

On a more general note, there are many things yahtzee said that I agree with. However, one issue I see touted in the video and this thread is one I don't understand: constantly checking in the inventory to see if you have picked up a drastically better weapon. I can honestly say that in about 35 hours I have only done this a scant few times when trading. I usually see a gun on the ground and look for three or more green arrows. If there aren't that many, I just pass it over or pick it up and know it is worse than what I have, thus leading to me selling it without even thinking about it. The only thing I've really read on the guns is the secondary effects like slagging, it gaining extra accuracy upon firing, etc.

I really liked this game, though I can understand why some might not. Opinions.

I like those little breaks he made. They made me giggle. <3

Oh yeah, the game.. Uhh..

It bored me so much I went for a walk.. In the rain.
...
It wasn't really worth it. The game was slightly more fun than that. So.. that is a point in its favour.. I suppose?

I'm still enjoying BL2 but he's right. Especially about the vehicles. It seems that they tried to make everything a bit more slick...except the vehicles. I guess they thought those things were okay.

Still, you know you don't have to open ALL the boxes right?

I want a game set in the Border Princes.
Borderlands just reeks of bland boringness. Nope, haven't tried any of them.

In regards to the driving on Xbox, I found it became much easier when I stopped trying to steer the car, and just aimed in the direction I wanted to drive. The car will auto correct to follow the direction you are pushing, and if you don't have a wide enough turn radius, going in reverse a couple times will straighten you out quickly.

Once you have a grasp of the turning radius, even high speed vehicle dogfights tend to work out fairly well, as you can hold the direction of your course while spinning around on the guns (I think the way they set up the controls was specifically to ease turret shooting while driving). It's a bit harder to do small jukes left and right as if you were on a multi-lane road (it's a bit more sluggish then actually "turning" the wheel, but didn't seem overwhelmingly so), but that's rarely something that's needed in the open fields you drive on.

Also, the vehicles are very bouncy due to the low gravity of the game, which can make for some ...interesting momentum issues.

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