I have to say, the gap already has a bridge over it. I know a few gamer/DND nerds who also happen to be sports nerds for American Football. Enter quote from Fantasy Greg, "What? Fantasy Football is still fantasy!"

OT: But Yahtzee, the FPT has no right to exist!

I play a bit of tennis and it's true that the only reason I would bother playing a tennis videogame is to find out how close the visuals/physics are to the real thing. And ultimately it would only hold my attention for a few minutes before I got bored after finding out that it's nothing like the real thing (and how could it ever be :P).

Question - can what Yahtzee said apply to games about musical instruments as well?

For example I love playing guitar (shredding mah Ibanez for 5+ years). I played Guitar Hero 2 for about ~30 seconds on the friend's console before saying out loud "dude this is fucking stupid. The controller is stupid. And the crowd is boo'ing at me for not being able to play the same song that I have mastered on a REAL fucking guitar!!"

So ultimately a game about what I'm supposed to love has completely turned me off the game. And you'll find similar opinions from 95% of other guitar players who have tried their hand at Guitar Hero and found out that it was aimed at actual guitar players as much as it was aimed at horse-riding enthusiasts (i.e. stay the fuck away from it if you actually play guitar).

Video games are great for achieving unattainable fantasies (e.g. killing dinosaurs with lasers, killing Nazis with an M16, etc) but with fully ATTAIANBLE stuff like playing sports or music instruments, how the hell can people invest so much time into games instead of the instrument/sport itself?
Do you realize that a soccer ball is cheaper than the game itself? Or that you can get a nice beginner guitar for the same price as Guitar Hero + controller? And to learn a real guitar you don't even need to get off the damn couch!

It's a question directly aimed at you Mr Croshaw, you Guitar Hero nerd you :P

Mahoshonen:
Another way sports fans are as big of nerds as the rest of us-tribalism! My cousins are huge White Sox fans and they love talking smack about the Chicago Cubs and their fans, a team the Sox will play only 6 times a season. On the other side of town, Cubs fans are always sure to mention what a crappy ballpark U.S. Celluar is. And on AM Radio, 'Screw the Packers' is the regular mantra of callers during the fall (and pretty much the rest of the year, too).

Because gamers NEVER get into feuds like that. I mean, look how very little enmity there is between Ps3, Wii, PC, and XBox360 users. It's VERY rare to find a member of any of these groups who actively hates members of the other groups purely based on that affiliation. [/sarcasm]

Anywho, I think the big gap in thinking comes from the fact that a much more sizable quantity of sports nerds are in VERY good physical shape, so they view themselves as superior, so their hobby is thereby superior to your hobby, so those that wish to emulate them sing that hobby's praises, and then they've basically fooled themselves into thinking they like it based on the hobby's own merits and go on and indoctrinate more this way. Not saying there's no such thing as a sports fan who likes the sport based on the sport's merit, in fact there's a lot of them, but there's probably a definite chain of events you could trace here.

EDIT: Also, the jab at bronies made me sad. At least I think that's what he was getting at.

I'm a sports nerd and proud of it. I play Fantasy sports (well, american football, the other ones require too much daily tracking and adjustment), I wouldn't say as much D&D as say League of Legends. You go in and compete with others, drop and equip players, you can sit idle and not accomplish nothing, but if you go in and manage your experience, you're much more likely to get better as a player, and literally through points or stats in the game.

What's this? Yahtzee saying nice things about people who like different things? Well shut me down! Wait, he didn't mention fans of JRPG's, did he?

kwagamon:

Mahoshonen:
Another way sports fans are as big of nerds as the rest of us-tribalism! My cousins are huge White Sox fans and they love talking smack about the Chicago Cubs and their fans, a team the Sox will play only 6 times a season. On the other side of town, Cubs fans are always sure to mention what a crappy ballpark U.S. Celluar is. And on AM Radio, 'Screw the Packers' is the regular mantra of callers during the fall (and pretty much the rest of the year, too).

Because gamers NEVER get into feuds like that. I mean, look how very little enmity there is between Ps3, Wii, PC, and XBox360 users. It's VERY rare to find a member of any of these groups who actively hates members of the other groups purely based on that affiliation. [/sarcasm]

Isn't he saying that tribalism is one of those things they have in common with us other nerds? I mean, correct me if I read that wrong but "as big of nerds as the rest of us" seems to imply it's a nerdy thing that we do as well. Which we do. Though admittedly, not as rapidly, we don't beat up opposing team supporters or riot we just post long detailed scorn ridden posts on the internet.

CaptainMarvelous:

kwagamon:

Mahoshonen:
Another way sports fans are as big of nerds as the rest of us-tribalism! My cousins are huge White Sox fans and they love talking smack about the Chicago Cubs and their fans, a team the Sox will play only 6 times a season. On the other side of town, Cubs fans are always sure to mention what a crappy ballpark U.S. Celluar is. And on AM Radio, 'Screw the Packers' is the regular mantra of callers during the fall (and pretty much the rest of the year, too).

Because gamers NEVER get into feuds like that. I mean, look how very little enmity there is between Ps3, Wii, PC, and XBox360 users. It's VERY rare to find a member of any of these groups who actively hates members of the other groups purely based on that affiliation. [/sarcasm]

Isn't he saying that tribalism is one of those things they have in common with us other nerds? I mean, correct me if I read that wrong but "as big of nerds as the rest of us" seems to imply it's a nerdy thing that we do as well. Which we do. Though admittedly, not as rapidly, we don't beat up opposing team supporters or riot we just post long detailed scorn ridden posts on the internet.

I think you missed the sarcasm marker there.

WarlordOdin:

Cat of Doom:

Yahtzee Croshaw:

people who are into gaming but aren't into football definitely can't enjoy a football game

I must point out that this is simply not true, I have 4 good friends that absolutely loath football, yet are all part of my online club and play Regulus, because they simply enjoy the gameplay. They enjoy the tactical elements to the game, as in setting up the right team, putting different players in different positions to beat different opponents. They enjoy building up lower league team, making ambitious signings and developing youth players to bring a small side like Huddersfield to the premier league and Europe. Trying different skill moves out and scoring difficult goals both on and offline is fun, the gameplay is very enjoyable. One friend made fun of us for always playing FIFA, saying football is boring, their cant be any fun in it as there is no difference in each game and generally saying each fifa is a squad update. Since being forced to try it out, his brought every game since.

All I'm saying is you don't have to be invested in a concept to enjoy a well made game which centers around it. I find aciteture dull and am sure city management is dull in real life, but love sim city.

Like a sir

Fifa games are allot of fun as "games" as well as "football games". As with allot of games, if you play well, you have fun. When there is strategy, you feel great when you outdo your opponent or completely outclass them. It's fun when there are so many variables a match can change with the slightest mistake, similar to the dayZ experience; You make one small mistake it can cost you your game.
Making your own team is fun because you build your own team up (sometimes from scratch). The online clubs element of the game is fantastic for friends. Team work is a vital part of almost all multiplayer games and it can be a great laugh. I for one endorse these games even if they are created by the abomination that is 'EA'.

Hear, Hear. I kind of like football (soccer), I occasionally go to a local (Melbourne) game with friends, I played (badly) as a kid and occasionally I risk heart attack with a bunch of other dads in a pick-up game. I know no stats, barely any players names, and if a game was on TV I probably won't watch it (The World Cup is another matter, I'll watch every game I can of that, it's mesmerising). However I love FIFA 12, and before that I loved Sensible Soccer 2006 (shitty game that it is), and before that VR Soccer 96 (I don't buy them every year obviously) and before that Five a Side Soccer for the C64. I enjoy playing them with friends and I enjoy playing them by myself. It's sort of like a limited unit RTS...or rather an ineffective brawler the way I play against superior players/sides.

Well said, Yahtzee. Sports fans that take time to dress up (or play fantasy football) are just as nerdy as DnD players... not that they'd ever admit it...

I read that last bit of the article to my brother right next to me out loud. It started a conversation like this:

Him: "Oh hey, that's what happened last time we (Montreal) won the Stanley cup."
Me: "What? Really?"
Him: "Yeah! Didn't mom tell you that story?"
Me: "No..."
Him: "Oh, well you should ask her to tell you some time!"
Me: *stares at the screen, contemplating what kind of city I live in*

That was almost sentimental in some weird way, but then I remembered that this is Yahtzee here.

Yeah, I have always thought this too, and it goes beyond sports. Cars is another venue. Computer hardware. Basically most guys are into some form of geekdom and Most of what guys do proactively get into is in fact just a different form of geekdom.

I agree almost completely except for one thing. There was a PS1 era professional racing game that I completely loved. I can't stand watching professional racing, but there was nothing more fun than going against the flow and causing the worlds most horrific crashes with an admittedly sketchy physics engine that caused awesome explosions of bits and pieces of car flying everywhere. I never finished a single race, but I sure as hell had fun.

As someone who owns 6 football-jerseys (although I only use them when playing football myself), watches about 2-6 matches per week, plays in 3 different football-teams, checks about 6 footballing-related homepages several times per day and have been playing football-games since the time of the Amiga (Pro Evo-fan since the days of the PS2), I can definately and proudly proclaim myself to be a football nerd (although most people I meet never realise the extent of this since I rarely talk football unless I happen upon a fellow nerd).

I think any reasonable person would realise that someone that is hardcore into a sport, any sport, is by any definition of the word, a nerd. Nothing wrong with that. I think that when nerdiness gets to be bad is when said nerd is unable to realise that there are other things important in life and just prattles on to anyone and everyone about their chosen nerd-theme.

Also, although I do realise that yearly editions might seem strange, there are often small and large tweaks that can make or break a game, and that will eventually make last years version seem very behind the times so to say.

Angel Molina:
Wait... So if all that is true, then pornstars are sex nerds?

*My mind = Blown!* 0_o

You, my good friend, just made my day!

Evil Smurf:
Yahtzee, I do play games because I want to be a murder one day.

Shit, not just a murderer, but the embodiment of the "murder" concept?

Holy shit you're my idol now.

No, I am not being sarcastic, you are awesome!

Great article!

This is totally what should've gone in the video I feel. With all due respect, the review came across to me like a wishy-washy gimmick that wrote off a few games (that could've held an entire episode) rather than a bunch of smaller reviews wrapped in a joke.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
the fifa games aren't the same all over. The important thing about the games are the flow.
In FIFA11 they succeeded pretty well, then FIFA12 was shit as hell and now that FIFA13 came out, well they sort of perfected it (so far) so they could just stop now :P (untill they make the next one :D)
So mr. Croshaw, don't ever again say they give out the same game year after year and only change the team setup >:(

Good read this was thou :)

one look at my Facebook News Feed and I see floods of posts from band geeks =.= definitely and obsession lol

kwagamon:

EDIT: Also, the jab at bronies made me sad. At least I think that's what he was getting at.

hey at least he said it was ok, despite not getting it.

Well and Truly said, Yahtzee! As a fairly big American Football Nerd and Fantasy/RP/Video Game/Board Game Nerd I appreciate that we are all cut from generally the same nerd cloth. I think the drinking and violence that sports nerds involve themselves in is primarily a side effect of their denial of nerdism. If they would only admit to exactly how nerdy their pastime is, maybe there wouldn't be so many drunken fights at games. Or maybe not, who knows.

I don't agree that sports fans should be categorized as nerds.
None but the very most obsessive of them, at least.
To me, being a nerd has always been about receiving negative social sanctions for your interests. Most people are interested in something. That doesn't mean most people are nerds; the word would lose all meaning. What it means is that being a nerd is about more than being passionate.
Being a nerd is about noone - save for bullies - talking to you during recess.
It's about cultivating your passion despite getting your lunch money stolen for it.

To put it like this:
Noone's going to beat you up for wearing a Barcelona FC shirt to school.

Evil Smurf:

MegaManOfNumbers:

Evil Smurf:
Yahtzee, I do play games because I want to be a murder one day.

Shit, not just a murderer, but the embodiment of the "murder" concept?

Holy shit you're my idol now.

No, I am not being sarcastic, you are awesome!

I am dead serious!

:P

I think he's really trying to say that he wants to be a bunch of crows :P

duchaked:
one look at my Facebook News Feed and I see floods of posts from band geeks =.= definitely and obsession lol

Guffe:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
the fifa games aren't the same all over. The important thing about the games are the flow.
In FIFA11 they succeeded pretty well, then FIFA12 was shit as hell and now that FIFA13 came out, well they sort of perfected it (so far) so they could just stop now :P (untill they make the next one :D)
So mr. Croshaw, don't ever again say they give out the same game year after year and only change the team setup >:(

Good read this was thou :)

In fairness to Yahtzee, he does admit not not having played any of the FIFA games. So his comment is on par with someone saying there are no substantial differences between MW and MW2. Maybe true with a cursory glance, but any fan of the series can quickly list all the major changes.

Alright, I'm going to be the devil's advocate here and say that sports are as an important a part of human culture as any piece of art, musical composition or scientific study.

We're already becoming pathetically weak physically as our reliance on machines for comfort and convenience replaces what would otherwise constitute hard physical labor. God forbid we discard sports AND become wholly reliant on machinery for every aspect of our lives that requires more than a mild effort on our part.

And then the machines go out and the human race goes extinct, because we can't overpower a stalk of grain with our bare hands.

Wait, what was I talking about... this post was still relevant in my head.

I'm really high.

Mahoshonen:

CaptainMarvelous:

kwagamon:

Because gamers NEVER get into feuds like that. I mean, look how very little enmity there is between Ps3, Wii, PC, and XBox360 users. It's VERY rare to find a member of any of these groups who actively hates members of the other groups purely based on that affiliation. [/sarcasm]

Isn't he saying that tribalism is one of those things they have in common with us other nerds? I mean, correct me if I read that wrong but "as big of nerds as the rest of us" seems to imply it's a nerdy thing that we do as well. Which we do. Though admittedly, not as rapidly, we don't beat up opposing team supporters or riot we just post long detailed scorn ridden posts on the internet.

I think you missed the sarcasm marker there.

But what's there to be sarcastic about? You're saying the same thing. You said that sports fans are nerds like the rest of us and he sarcastically said that gamers don't do that, which'd only make sense if YOU thought gamers didn't; otherwise why be sarcastic about something we all agree with?

run your fingers under the hot tap for five minutes to return enough sensation to do your shirt buttons up

Dammit, why didn't I ever think of that? I just fumbled around with numb fingers like I found poking my chest particularly entertaining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TBusqMaCEM

Pretty much sums it up.

"A Sport obsessed individual is not ridiculed or beaten up because of the obsession" is incorrect.
Perhaps it's true if the sport is the popular choice in a group. However, when I was in high school, Baseball nerds were beaten up quite frequently because of how dull Baseball was perceived. The Basketball, American Football, and Electric Guitar aficionados were among the "in-group" at the time.
Certainly, the Baseball obsessed would still spam their stats to each other in a corner of the lunch room, but it didn't prevent them from being bullied.

Yahtzee:
After all, what is a nerd? It's someone who has a passion for something. There are gaming nerds, and music nerds, and TV nerds, and train nerds, and yes, there are sports nerds. Let's stop all this nerd-on-nerd judgmentalism, alright? And pity that tragic minority of people who aren't nerds. People for whom there is nothing that provokes any passionate interest. Who regard all things with folded arms and an aloof sneer. What sad, empty, friendless lives they must lead.

I would say typically nerd is a derogatory term which doesn't really just say that someone has a passion for something, but to such an extent that it comes at the cost of socializing and exercise. So the passion is for something that isn't exercise or socializing oriented like books or video games.

I guess the point is to avoid that stereo type as loving video games becomes more main stream.