Jimquisition: Booth Babes

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Somehow, I'm glad that Jim did not come down on a definitive answer to the problem.

Jimothy Sterling:

I made one side of the argument in the first four. Hadn't even addressed the conflicting flipside yet. If you feel they're too long, that is fair enough criticism (I always try and keep them shorter than they turn out), but you must have been watching a different video. Not to mention, most videos have always been between seven and eight minutes and this one was. Previous two were closer to ten, so you really did pick the wrong vid, considering this one brought the viewing time back to average.

Let's have some standards back in our criticism.

Vote Sterling.

I didn't mention the Resident Evil 6 episode because I thought you were making a complex enough argument to make up for the extra time. Watched all three videos again with your comments in mind, and yes the 3 minute summary was a bit of a hyperbole. I think the comment came from the fact that you spend a lot of time on two very simple points in both this video and the last ("Most children characters are annoying"/"This child in The Walking Dead isn't" etc.) and upon reflection I just hear you repeating the points over and over.

Keep in mind, I realize that any good argument needs to have plenty of detail and explanation, and the detail in your arguments is partially why I enjoy Jimquisition. However, these past two videos have felt more padded than detailed.

Somehow, I'm glad that Jim did not settle on a definitive answer to the problem.

I don't really mind or care... I do think it's lazy, and I don't understand how it would actually work, but then I'm not a guy so... As mentioned, they could at least had the girls cosplay something from the game. Why can't they just ditch the sexy girls and do a burly man with full war gear for the next generic shooter? Surely that's much more interesting to the general crowd.

I personally wouldn't mind doing this job even, if I was suitably sexy... But if I was, I could use my sexyness for a lot of other much more entertaining things! Unfortunately I'm too tall, my breasts are not perfectly shaped and they sag more than is ideal, my skin is FAR from perfect, my hair is pretty lazy and simple and I barely ever wear makeup. I'm quite skinny though, so thats one down! Come to think of it I'm likely not skinny enough X3. I should totally make a porn for people with a fetish for extremely average and slightly nerdy girls.

eatenbyagrue:
I have a question though: don't car shows also have their own version of booth babes?

Since when is this a car website? I thought we concerned outself with gaming-related stuff on here Oo.

I'm not sure the argument of them losing their job is that much of a strong one. Yeah, they'd lose out on that one-off, 3 days of work or whatever, but I'd imagine they still have jobs outside of that, hell, they may even just work somewhere else that weekend. It's not like E3 stop hiring them and they are then forced to go stand in line at the unemployment office.

Hell, it might even create the same amount of jobs for other people, such as Break Dancers. Which as you pointed out, would rock.

Given I am unemployed you could argue that I would be more empathetic towards people losing their jobs.

Sadly being unemployed has only en-bittered me so I wish the opposite.
-
I think it's the businesses who believe breasts will sell things. It's not my position or theirs or anyone's to tell them to 'cover up'. But it's not ours either to tell them to 'expose'.
The business tells the models to go sexy.

This is a belief I have with all sorts of advertising. I don't see an issue for sexy advertisement for a sexy and intimate product. It just needs to fit the product.

These are the same moralist who wants to banmy right to fap. Search pink cross for example. I hate this discussion. Booth babes exist in lot of other industries why this bothers the gaming industry so much?!

"Extra Extra: Jim Sterling Support child Labor, and not just child Labor, but BABY labor"

Yopaz:
Now I don't have any problems with booth babes, but I don't really care about them at all. At a computer expo earlier this year I looked at a few laptops and some new graphic cards CPUs, screens and such. I actually didn't see the booth babe presenting it because of the sexy computer stuff so they don't bother me, nor do they make any kind of impact at all.

If people are uncomfortable with them I see no problem in removing them and replacing them. In fact seeing some good speakers with a deep knowledge on what they are presenting would be a huge improvement because I will assume that most who go to these kind of things are interested in the product, not the hot girls.

Still I am neutral so I leave what we should do with this to someone who got more knowledge or more invested in this.

I would like to see more actual developers at these conventions, and expos as these are the people that would know the most of what is going on in the game.

OT: I have a great idea impose a requirement that "all representatives of a booth have to where similar outfits" this way if they have mail reps then they would also have to wear the revealing outfit to, and bikinis forget about it. though openface tops... I hope the guys shave first.

then the argument that "cosplayers are allowed to wear what they want" this is actually contradictory because the cosplayer is dressing as an established character in a game/anime/show/movie that already exists, and realistically they are still an attendee these booth babes are employees most of them had little say in their outfits.

Just had an idea have the conventions offer models for the booths. when the booths sign up for space they have the option to pay extra to get a model, but they have to submit the outfit to the convention for approval. then everyone who is not a model, and working a booth would have to be an employee of the company in question. there Booth babes still exist with "modesty oversight", models still have jobs, booths can be staffed with knowledgeable people, and if women are on this approval board then the "offensiveness" can be addressed.

Blunderboy:

Jimothy Sterling:
Booth Babes

The punditry of the videogame community have been chatting an awful lot about booth babes this past year or so.

Watch Video

Oh god damn it Jim, what was the cartoon you used a clip from? With the purple lizard guy? It stirred something in the back of my brain from my childhood but I can't remember what.

The Dream Stone.

Booth Space Marines are about a million times more epic anyway

Fr]anc[is:
Booth Space Marines are about a million times more epic anyway

I agree. You can be of either gender to wear those suites. So no discrimination with job losses.

(See The Guild's Female Master Chief hench'men'.

I found a couple of commentaries from actual "booth babes" that were pretty interesting:

Mostly positive "it's a living" take

Somewhat more critical take with suggestions for improvement

I think criticism towards booth babes is really missing the point. If you restrict their presence, then companies will just find the most attractive women in their offices and send them to trade shows. And really, if they have a job in the office that's not directly related to sales, promotions, or public relations, they should probably be concentrating on that work and leave promotion and PR to the people who specialize in that, and if that includes a couple of models, so be it.

The call for male spokesmodels seems like a step in the right direction. Especially if, as the second article I linked above suggests, women are more and more likely to be early adopters of new tech. The major auto shows cleaned up their acts when they realized they'd become family affairs; it's probably time for gaming to do the same.

misterprickly:
And don't feel bad 'cause the girls look good; it's probably the only job she can get that doesn't require a 3 camera setup and a bottle of lube.

***REMEMBER KIDS*** Stay in school!

Most of the models I've met have been university-educated. But if there are no jobs in your field, modelling might be more appealing than making lattes. Also, modelling can be pretty flexible, a good way to pick up some extra cash while still holding down a day job. It's probably appealing for recent college grads with student debt to repay.

TwiZtah:
I don't care, I'm just sick and tired of all these gender "issues" popping up fucking everywhere. Chill the fuck down, not everything has to be taken so goddamn seriously.

Is somebody forcing you to watch this video and comment on this thread against your will?

Just to me, I feel like all the women who are put off by booth babes are just as bad as all the guys who are turned on by booth babes, even though I know exactly how that makes me sound...

If anyone thinks it's morally wrong for anyone to be that much prettier than them is problem on the same level as any body who just wants to stare at the T&A all damn day. (Polar opposites on the scale but on the same level)

And also just to me (Disclaimer: I've never been to any event with booth babes present but I have seen booth babe compilations on the internet) they never seemed offensive to me. Usually I just seem them standing and waving like members of the Royal family. Unless all the cameras turn off the second they do all the really risque stuff that puts off all the insecure people.

How about attractive women, sensibly dressed, who actually know something about the products they're promoting? Or am I just asking for the impossible?

I've only just noticed this, but it'll be something I will never be able to unsee:

Jim looks exactly like Garth Marenghi.

Jimothy Sterling:

Blunderboy:

Jimothy Sterling:
Booth Babes

The punditry of the videogame community have been chatting an awful lot about booth babes this past year or so.

Watch Video

Oh god damn it Jim, what was the cartoon you used a clip from? With the purple lizard guy? It stirred something in the back of my brain from my childhood but I can't remember what.

The Dream Stone.

Excellent. Thanks Jim old chum. :D
Thank God for you.

brazuca:
These are the same moralist who wants to banmy right to fap. Search pink cross for example. I hate this discussion. Booth babes exist in lot of other industries why this bothers the gaming industry so much?!

The fact that they exist in other industries does absolutely nothing to validate them in the video game industry, and makes this discussion no less substantial when there's clearly people who have a problem with it. Way to ignorantly strongarm your own opinion without giving a shit about anyone else.

Also, to add to my previous post, it doesn't matter how the booth babes feel about their job. It's still their JOB, and if you take it away from them, you screw them over. But like I said, that's just how it goes. They have their problems, and we have ours. Those trying to turn this into a win-win situation will be disappointed. And no, you know damn well that introducing "booth bros" or whatever is not gonna fix this.

T3hSource:
But in the end only they lose,but at the same time I'm sure they can show off their sexy body somewhere else.

Like car shows maybe, cos that's not the same thing.

Having worked in sales and marketing for many years I can say that good looking women sell more.

I worked many years ago leading a group of people with clipboards and standing in the street trying to convince passers by to sign up for the company I was representing (A job I hated but it pays the bills)... A girl in my team was having issues and not getting so many people to sign up. I told her to come back the next day with a little less jewellry and makeup and some smart casual clothes.
The next day went much better for her because image sells...

You can call me sexist if you like but I didn't ask her to wear a short skirt and heels (in fact I recommended and she wore a pair of plain black trousers and a comfy pair of smart shoes) but I did ask her to make her appearance better for the sake of selling.

I think the concept of good looking people selling a product is fine but the image of bikini clad girls isn't the best image to use if we are gonna do this right.

What about a good looking girl who is dressed in gamer gear who has been prepped to be able to talk about the game/product...

Of course I make reservations on appearance depending on how appropriate to the product it would be...
Team Ninja could be forgiven (from a marketing standpoint) for using bikini babes and any booth promoting a new Lara Croft game would be remiss for not having an action girl present.

Fr]anc[is:
Booth Space Marines are about a million times more epic anyway

Plus it ends up employing more people then the standard booth babe because you still need a modal as well the handful of people paid to craft the suit.

I'm fine with booth babes but the problem came with the over bearing presence of them, it's fine for DOA a game that already sold itself on T&A to use them but when you get to a point where expos have essentially a girl in a hooter uniform with the text and color swapped out then it's going too far.

Never really considered booth babes before since I've never been to a gaming convention. But I do find that as I grow older the less I like the open displays of nudity/sexuality. Especially when they're tied to commercialism. As much as I feel that everyone ought to decide for themselves how they are clothed, the fact of the matter remains that nudity elicits uncontrollable and often unwanted responses in viewers. Usually either lust or envy. Both if you're more on the homosexual end of the spectrum like myself. Both of these responses can lead to antisocial actions like stalking or anorexia.

I'm not even sure that booth babes/hunks makes sense from a business standpoint. Associating lust with a product might make people buy the product but I doubt envy would. The other day I day an ad on TV for Burlington Coat Factory that had this attractive shirtless man just standing there doing nothing with his secondary sexual characteristics (ie. his muscles) just hanging all out there while these two women were talking. My response was conflicted. Being a manlovin' man I was aroused. But being a man who works out regularly and still doesn't have that degree of abdominal definition I was envious. Envy led to slight anger. First at myself then at Burlington which ultimately led to being put off. Now assuming that the response to booth nudity is 50% lust and 50% envy then sure there are 50% of people potentially being turned on to the product. But there's also a potential 50% being turned off.

Now should booth babes/hunks be banned? I don't know. Unlike Jim I don't think many jobs would actually be lost. But still, banning a practice is something that needs careful consideration. Attractive people already have a huge advantage when looking for work. I guess I'd just prefer more people to choose modesty and let the creators and the product itself do the selling.

thisbymaster:
If people are being alienated then the business will react. Stop all restrictions and let the people decide. It is called choice, give the power to the people.

Since I was scorned on a previous topic by my one sentence response, in a sea of half naked teenage cartoon girly postings, I'll write three sentences now and let someone else do the work. I say, lets have less will/restrictions/rules imposed on others to conform to our standards and more freedom. Isn't that why everyone hates religion...for you know...claims that religion is imposing it's collective will on the population.

I just find it an odd double standard in our society that if a man is payed for being an attractive man then that's okay but if a woman is payed for being attractive woman then she is being exploited in some way. You can hardly turn on the TV these days without some shirtless guy showing off his abs.

I'm not really for or against booth babes, I'm just wondering if there would be the same uproar if attractive men were attempting to sell video games.

You might want to rethink that, Jim.
'Booth Babies' would probably attract the... wrong kind of people.

Booth Babes annoy me, cause i have to stop at every booth that has them, and wait for my friends to stop staring at the girls.
And it always takes so much freaking time, first stare, then take a photo, maybe also one holding them and then they have to orientate themselfs again, because they forgot in which direction we were going.

I'd say that being a booth babe isn't a career. It's one gig in a career (Modeling) which modeling isn't going anywhere when we ban booth babes, so I don't feel TOO bad about it. I mean it's not good that we should need to limit one avenue of income for these ladies in their career where before they had that but it's an avenue that should of never been opened up in the first place.
Where I see more of an issue is where do we draw the line on female cosplayers? Anyone that goes to an anime/gaming convention knows that female cosplayers are constantly getting harrassed to cover up by security when they do certain female characters. (at least in the 3 or 4 convention I go to semi regularly.). These are girls and ladies that cosplay as characters that wears clothing that is perhaps too revealing in general public (many of these shows such as bleach targeted at kids and teens.) I feel that is a bit wrong because they're fulfilling a passion of theirs, in a environment where that passion is encouraged. And then there is the fact that male cosplayers that go as characters like Kratos or one of the many shirtless streetfighter characters rarely as far as I've personally seen get harassed. The female cosplayers are still doing like what Jim said in the video of making some people feel sleazy/uncomfortable but they're not doing it so you'll buy some product. So what do we do then?

I think it has been mentioned a few times, but why don't we have more boothhunks? Personally, I think there is a place for attractive men and women to be presenting products at a trade show. My only requirements would be that they either:

1) Dress attractively while still looking professional. Microsoft Japan does a great job following this mantra and should be used as an example.

or

2) Dress in a manner that's thematically relevant to the game. If this means revealing outfits like the Juliet Starling case, then it should be taken into account when setting up the different sections of the convention and how the booths are set-up.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that we are somehow being progressive as a community by shunning sexuality all together from our gatherings. If anything, it seems more like we would simply be covering ourselves in embarrassment to avoid more social stigma, and I much rather be embarrassed about Xbox live generation, than a group of models promoting a product.

I'd prefer that conventions would force companies to have an equal number of skimpy clothed hunks as they have of skimpy clothed babes instead of banning the babes.

It's a tough one really, to an extent, I find it a bit of an insult that people think people will only pay attention to a product because it's flanked by tits.

But, it works.

On the topic of jobs though, I don't think a model's only venture is being a booth babe at a gaming convention, if that's your only gig, you've got a very empty year.

I mean, yes, saying "No Booth Babes" means that there's no longer that job opening, but, I'm not sure that this will mean anyone will go without work.

Oh and an equal hunk to babe ration definitely needs to happen.

How about compromise? I know we're not exactly great at that but hear me out.

If the "booth babes" were taught about the games or companies they are playing eye-candy for, could answer questions intelligently, and dressed attractively but not overtly sexy (trade in the bikini for a blazer and skirt combo perhaps? - or hell even some cosplay costumes for crying out loud, provided they cover all the essential bits with a half degree of modesty) - then they could be booth workers and still have a job and still be attractive and everybody wins.

I have no problem with hiring attractive people to represent your product - every advertiser does it and there's some science behind why (as in we're drawn to people with certain features - hence the term "attractive" it attracts), but there's a level of objectification going on with booth babes that's entirely inappropriate to the point that it demeans us all. There are never enough people at booths to talk intelligently about the products to the throngs of people who want to inquire - so solve both problems and have these women learn about the product to be actual workers of the booth instead of animated pinups.

I can say now being the stereotype that I am, if the genders were reversed I would feel uncomfortable having some well toned lady eye candy strutting his body around to get attention over to his booth. It would make me feel uncomfortable as I am an insecure person and most likely be one all of my life. So I can feel for the ladies if they feel like they have to live up to "high standards" but why not bring in the booth hunks with the booth babes, all the socially awkward would have no idea were to look.
And then when you finally pick up that cute girl who you keep bumping into through out the con, you can both stare longingly into each others eyes, thinking of those sexy booth people that everyone just loves so much.

Bobic:
I'm not sure the argument of them losing their job is that much of a strong one. Yeah, they'd lose out on that one-off, 3 days of work or whatever, but I'd imagine they still have jobs outside of that, hell, they may even just work somewhere else that weekend. It's not like E3 stop hiring them and they are then forced to go stand in line at the unemployment office.

Hell, it might even create the same amount of jobs for other people, such as Break Dancers. Which as you pointed out, would rock.

Keep in mind that Jim did say that this could be the case if you follow the anti-booth babe argument to its logical conclusion. If female models aren't appropriate in gaming conventions, where else might they not be appropriate? It's not like gender issues are uniquely a gaming community problem. I mean are we special? Is it okay for abnormally(and sometimes artificially) attractive women to dominate the fashion world, race tracks and beer advertisements when it is apparently such a huge deal for them to show up at E3?

I don't see how booth babes are impinging on the collective female consciousness more than they are anywhere else. So an argument against booth babes is really an argument against modelling in general. Maybe there is some merit to that, but I don't see the profession going anywhere as long as men are visual creatures and women are willing to indulge that trait.

Well, I have nothing against booth babes.
But there there is one issue with them.
I feel awkward FOR THEM.
There they are dressed as a characters they don't know or care much about (as far as I know).
Half of those that surrounds them wants to fuck them.
Other half envy their beauty and wants them to disappear from here.
So yeah that position sucks, but that's a job and if you won't do that there are 5 other girls breathing into your back, because jobs are limited resource in modeling (and bills need to be payed).
And that is why I feel sorry for them.
Because any sane human being would despise such working conditions.

P.S.And regarding fucking them- yes I'm from that camp too. And that makes me feel slightly guilty, because I prefer having sexual relationship with someone I can appreciate as human being, not slutty dressed fuckdolls.

Dascylus:
snip

Sure,but now were talking about representation of a product,rather than "sex sells".I see your point and I'm sure no one would have a problem with having this,but then again I'm sure that's how the booth babe gig started in the first place.Ugh...I guess it just ends up on what the employer requires of their representattives.

Why not just have some hunky dudes present some booths. Then everyone's happy.

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