Zero Punctuation: Dishonored

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Gorfias:
I got to see a youtube review of Thief II. Dishonored looks a lot better. I think Yahtzee is having a nostalgia kaniption. To hear someone gloat, "in thief 2, you can break into a house!"... may have been very original back then, but looks old hat now.

Don't judge a game by its 12 year old graphics. Thief 2 really was the greatest stealth game ever made. But it might be too slow paced at times. If you do like Dishonored, despite the thumbs down from a previous comment, you should give Thief 3 a try. I personally liked it more than the second, it has decent graphics, superb story and some great levels. The levels are more compact and it has a "haunted" theme which makes you feel very vulnerable.

One thing I feel I should point out is that the different endings in Dishonored aren't based on moral choice or even not killing people. It's really a reward system for the stealth aspect. I did a play through as an experiment where I killed EVERYONE, but I just didn't get caught and I was rewarded with the good ending. So it seems like the two endings are there to punish the swashbuckling side of things while rewarding the silent assassination approach.
As far as the game itself goes I liked it simply for the fact that it gives you what it promises, the ability to silently and creatively sneak up and kill people, which is more than I can say for the Assassin's creed series which is characterized by perhaps the loudest and most easily recognizable assassins I have ever even heard of. I still remember that one scene where Ezio stabs a guy seven times while screaming his name in front of a crowd of witnesses.

OuendanCyrus:
I rather have a silent protagonist that someone who never shuts up, I always end up hating about 80% of voiced protagonists.

I usually turn the volume down anyway. That being said, I don't really want to project myself on my character, either.

Well, except in pro wrestling games, because it's a laugh my friends and I have had since like, second grade.

karamazovnew:

Gorfias:
I got to see a youtube review of Thief II. Dishonored looks a lot better. I think Yahtzee is having a nostalgia kaniption. To hear someone gloat, "in thief 2, you can break into a house!"... may have been very original back then, but looks old hat now.

Don't judge a game by its 12 year old graphics. Thief 2 really was the greatest stealth game ever made. But it might be too slow paced at times. If you do like Dishonored, despite the thumbs down from a previous comment, you should give Thief 3 a try. I personally liked it more than the second, it has decent graphics, superb story and some great levels. The levels are more compact and it has a "haunted" theme which makes you feel very vulnerable.

Deadly Shadows (it is NOT Thief 3) shat all over the Keepers and ruined the whole atmosphere of the games. They made it so it was Hammerites vs. Pagans... which it was... sort of... but not openly so. The Pagans weren't city dwellers... nor were they public. Paganism in the first two games was a fringe thing... only done in secret or out in the wild. Deadly Shadows put them right in town.

Conversely, the Hammerites weren't thugs or the Inquisition. They did have some peacekeeping duties, but most of that was handled by the City Watch by the Thief 2, as they were falling out of favor.

Finally, the Keepers were never -- I repeat, NEVER -- actors: they were only observers. Garrett got fed up with that (and selfish)... which is why he left. His unique combination of skills then put him in a position to influence things... and the Keepers only influenced him three times (saving his life in the first game, telling him of a prophecy of the Metal Age, and one last time before the last level in the second) because he was the "brethren and betrayer"... the prophesied one who would end up in the middle of everything that happens.

Yeah, so... Deadly Shadows is kind of a pet peeve of mine. I want to like it, but I just can't...

Lol. I think he meant 'Satyriasis'. A hedgehog with 'nymphomania' would be one 'prick' short.

Scorpid:
Fallout 2 didn't have a binary moral choice system and it is the greatest RPG I've ever played... but perhaps I have a bias.
Either way I agree I hate the silent protagonist because creating a character that has zero personality of his own is only frustrating to me, (which isn't the same as a shitty personality such as Nathan Drake) because when a NPC tells me to go fetch/kill/rescue something or someone I want to be able to at least know that PC isn't just a bloody robot that functions only to please those that gives it orders. Silent protagonist crutch that developers use only seems like a excuse to me for developers to not have to invest into having to make sure that PC's personality is consistent and logical when compared to the crazy things they'll be doing for the sake of advancing the game.

Props my favorite rpg of all time also.

Dishonored is probably a victim to its own hype, really this is supposed to be the greatest thing ever? well that is a pretty damn high bar to set. and the graphics are rather average at best.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
Why are you all so bad at spelling 'honour'

Morally upstanding people hate the letter U, because it committed incest and made the letter W.

Yeah, that pretty much defines what I've been getting out of the game, too.

IGN, Gametrailers et al.: "FUUUUU, NERDGASM, THIS GAME SO GUUUUUD! BAI NAO! BAINAOBAINAOBAINAO!"

Me: *buys into the hype, purchases it, plays for half an hour, goes "Meh", turns the game off*

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Muddy Textures Galore. No, GT, that's not a "painterly" look, that's the "Oh, shit, the milestone's getting close and we're not done!" art school. A painterly look does not necessarily excuse low-res textures, and Dishonoured is chock-full of badly conceived visual work.

Oh, the design's there, the imagination's there - but Victor Antonov dropped the ball in terms of reviewing texture quality. This is 2012, Arkane. I don't want to feel like I'm playing a fancypants Half-Life 2 mod with first-retail-year-quality textures.

And I spell "Dishonoured" with a U because I'm Canadian. Chyeah.

Personally I don't think people would complain about the moral choice system if the game didn't tell you about it. In-universe it's perfectly logical - more dead bodies means more rats and more plague, and more dead guards and dead nobles means that the watch use more and more resources to bring you down. It fits in with the theme of the game - death begets more death.

Also, it's nowhere near as harsh as people suspect. I got the good ending, but I absolutely went to town on the Whaler Assassins Guild. I killed 20 dudes in that mission, because I felt they deserved to bloody die. In fact, I just played through the game how I would in that scenario and I was happy with how it turned out.

I disagree with the characters as well - I thought they were reasonably rounded. It's just with no dialogue choices you don't learn much about them face-to-face - listen to their audio recordings and read their letters and diaries to get the interesting stuff. That said, Hiram Burrows has to be the most astonishingly under-written villain of all time.

It IS pretty short, though. That and the lack of creative options for not-killing guards are the two fairly big bugbears of the game. Piero couldn't give me some knockout gas? A net? A fucking club?

Hm,I didn't expect this game to be disappointing for him.Could of saw that coming,but I'm here for the entertainement not his "reviews" anyway.

With that said,I already played it two times and enjoyed both play styles.It was very satisfying going the "high chaos" path after trying to finish it on a "low chaos" rating.

One of the things I notice while reading through the postings about this review is that a lot of people still seem to be missing the point of Croshaw's videos. His reviews never come with a score because he prefers to nitpick at areas of the game he subjectively found lacking in his own play through and then lets people make their own decision about whether to buy the game or not. Many negative or ambivalent forum posts appear to be from people who had their opinions of the game after playing it altered by watching the review. If you liked it, stick to your guns and don't be ashamed to play a game because of the reception it receives.
On the subject of the comparison to Thief II, I don't really think the argument holds up under scrutiny. For all of its free moving assassination bollocks Dishonored is a very linear game, which is good. The linearity sets it apart from the Thief series and gives it one major leg up if you really must measure one against the other: Focus. In Dishonored you have a very clear focus, you know your target's face and you have a good idea of your endgame. Thief II always seemed to drag on a bit, not due to how methodical you had to be to set up knockouts and kills, but because the whole experience had a sense of aimlessness to it. I frequently picked over every inch of a building in Thief II and got lost at least once before I managed to bump into an objective. The stealth aspect of Dishonored is in some ways equal to Thief, though it does exchange some aspects for others. Enemies have narrow cones of vision and rarely look upwards, but have a more realistic ability to see in the dark and through shadows. To make up for this Dishonored has a better system of movement which allows climbing, sliding, and blinking in a way that cleverly follows Yahtzee's prescription for successful first person platforming.

Is it just me or does the overall opinion of a game on this website seem to drop after Yahtzee reviews it.

Kinda felt like you were reaching a bit on some of those criticisms frankly. The random guards and such say some rather nice things and are def. not cardboard cut out evil. The heading back to home base was also a lot less annoying then it is in many games and I thought it was done rather well (flow wise). You could, you know, compliment a game sometimes... just a little. crazy thought i know.

Dishonored ad before dishonored review? I'm okay with this :D
OT: I liked this game, because it has been a while since we've had a game like this :)

I don't really understand what people are criticizing about this game.
I love it.
I tried to follow the "good ending" path killing minimal number of persons(i only killed persons that the heart make me feel that they are bad) until the part off the assassins when i unleashed my wrath and killed everyone on that level using every single power i had and even so i got the good ending.
But sincerely he didn't talk about the heart? Love that "gadget" that tell you the characters inner personality and thoughts. Make you fell more that dishonored is really set on a corrupted and sad world.

Jared Hansen:
Personally I don't think people would complain about the moral choice system if the game didn't tell you about it. In-universe it's perfectly logical - more dead bodies means more rats and more plague, and more dead guards and dead nobles means that the watch use more and more resources to bring you down. It fits in with the theme of the game - death begets more death.

I agree completely with you, people expected to kill every single character and get a good ending? Deaths bring only bad things not goods ones.

This is by far the most accurate review of this game that I have come across.

It's not that it's bad, it's just that it is too easy for me. Maybe it is because I have been playing Thief for over a decade, but I had NO issues getting through. In addition, the graphics look like Bioshock on the lowest settings. I really hope there is a hi-rez patch, official or not, coming in.

The silent protagonist thing did kind of piss me off. There was NO reason for that.

Yahtzee, I'm surprised you didn't try to compare DisHONOURED (there, happy?) to Assassin's Creed! They both have the runny-jumpy-climby-stabby-in-an-open-world fun you like, especially since A'sC III ads replaced Dishonoured's before the videos (and thank Christ for that!) . But you convinced me to stick to that series becauseI can't wrap my head around a silent protagonist and amoral choice system in THE SAME GAME. While guys like Altair, Ezio, Desmond, and now Connor are relative chatterboxes, the stuff they say reveals their intentions and character in context of the world around them. They may start out taking orders from someone else, but they don't quietly obey all the time; sometimes they raise a big stink out of it.
If a game must have multiple endings based on player choices, at least have the player's character talk, because the events of the game's story is affected by the player's thoughts AND actions. Most recent good example is Deus Ex:Human Revolution, where you can make Adam sound sarcastic and hilarious when talking to sidequest NPC's. Interestingly, that game prefers you to sneak around enemies or just knock them out by giving you more XP, but you're not penalized harshly for killing. And yes, I remember that


But it's still better executed than how you guys described Dishonored.

I'm a bit concerned now. I hadn't picked up Dishonored yet, but the fact that people are ALREADY complaining about the ending either shows people have no life, people play through games like these way too fast, or this game is not very long.

A shame, too, because Dishonored looked like a kickass game. I might still pick it up, since I'm a sucker for most Bethesda games, but I'm not so hyped about it now after hearing Yahtzee basically spoil the whole moral ending thing.

... I mean seriously, guys? You're an assassin with magical-uber powers. Do you expect us NOT to kill someone?

With the comments about "Bleep bloop" NPC voicing and "Hiring Patrick Stewart to read your homework" I have to wonder if Yahtzee is aware of the voice talent in this game.

The morality of Dishonored .. is well, if you kill nearly every damn guard in the game, you are going to get an evil ending. If you kill only 1-4 guys a mission, including the target, you are still going to get the good ending.

Its not like, kill one guy and you get the "evil mass murder ending"... the morality expects and even allows you for a few kills; but if you go on a slaughter fest on every rank and file minion, what the hell did you expect. Rainbows and kittens?

I think I'll try this game just for the art style. I don't know why I'm so willing to forgive a game for all it's faults if the art style is good. That's just how I roll I guess.

BrionJames:
The morality thing did kind of irritate me. When the trailers first popped up on the internet, it shows all kind of stabby fun. Then the game came out and told me that it was "dark" for me to kill anyone. Fuck that, I understand that they were trying to point out the dangers of wrath and vengeance, but wasn't that what the game's premise is based on. Plus, by not having Corvo talk, we don't know if he actually wants revenge or is just some Jason Vorhees psychopath who lost his mind after his lover was killed in front of him. I did like this game, but it definitely needs some work. For now I guess I'll just have to stick with some good 'old fashioned Metal Gear Solid for my stealth needs.

Lol not only did his lover get murdered in front of him,

Wow just wow. still I loved the game probably because i had no prior expectations about it and i just rented it for a few days. went the stabby fun route and it wasn't even a terrible ending.

I Loved running straight through the level, only blinking around and hiding to recover when the heat got to bad. still nothing was more fun than having my cover blown and running for the target with several guards in hot pursuit only blinking when a guard showed up in front of me, i would blink to him and kill him real quick and keep running, hit my target fast and hard then turn around and slow time it up and kill my pursuers. brutal fast and fun. loved it.

thisbymaster:
The environment gave me a Half-life 2 feel.

That's likely because much of the games environments and art-assets were done by Viktor Antonov. One of the key art-leads and visual designers on Half Life 2.

Could we have a still of the 'Noam Chomsky' bit?
I would like to get that as my desktop wallpaper.

Bethesda games have been lacking charm and personality lately.

It amazes me you all need Yahtzee to tell you this game sucks. Prior threads about Dishonored were unmitigated fawning admiration, and only now some criticism finally comes out.

OuendanCyrus:
I rather have a silent protagonist than someone who never shuts up, I always end up hating about 80% of voiced protagonists.

Damn, I didn't expect to be ninja'd. Most of the time I just find characters have poor dialogues, or average, but then it doesn't make that much of a difference.

I guess it depends on what type of game you put the silent protaginist in though. Yahzee made a good point that it works against them when they could solve issues faster by talking.

Blood Brain Barrier:
It amazes me you all need Yahtzee to tell you this game sucks. Prior threads about Dishonored were unmitigated fawning admiration, and only now some criticism finally comes out.

Get of your high horse. I always find criticism in all threads, and even then some people either ignore the game or attack Bethesda directly.

Wow, relatively speaking that was a glowing endorsement. Im still waiting for the bargain bin.

Play through DIshonored enough and you'll find it changes quite alot depending on the actions taken. I have finished it once and my bro has finished it twice. Each of us had a completely differant endgame confrontation. Seriously it was stupid how differant it was and I love it becsuse now I want to find out how he did that.

Not listing the changes unless requested.

I liked the morality system in inFamous and Mass Effect but in Dishonored it's a complete buzzkill. It's like the game is saying: "Here, have this awesome arsenal of brutal gadgets and abilities, but don't you dare using them! If you want the best ending, just use these two boring non-lethal methods and let the awesome deadly weapons rust in your inventory!"

It doesn't make sense having a game with such an addictive variety of killing methods and then punishing the player for trying them out. It's like giving a kid a box of toys and only allowing him to play with the most boring one.

C117:

Lykosia:

C117:

And unlike Yahtzee, I strived for the no-kill achievment from beginning to end, and almost thought I made it. I never killed anyone on the missions, I disposed of all my targets nonlethaly, and I even shot that duelist guy with a sleep dart in the noggin'. But when I finished, I didn't get the achievment.

And then it hit me. I had killed two individuals. In fact, it was the first two individuals I encountered in the whole game. It was in the tutorial, and the game basically said "waste their asses".

I felt pretty drained after that...

Those guys don't count. I got the clean hands achievement easily.

You mean... it counts as a kill even if you choke her, and even if you get the "no enemies killed" award at the same time?

That is what I've been told. I didn't even try to help either one. I just took the key and ran.

Lykosia:

C117:

Lykosia:

Those guys don't count. I got the clean hands achievement easily.

You mean... it counts as a kill even if you choke her, and even if you get the "no enemies killed" award at the same time?

That is what I've been told. I didn't even try to help either one. I just took the key and ran.

I see. Thank you for the tip, I will have to try that out.

If you stop time, blink into a crowd of enemies, stick a springrazor to someone's back and blink out again before your time stop ends and you're detected it counts as a stealth kill and doesn't add to your chaos level. The gun and grenade/sticky grenade as well as incendiary bolts are the only weapons you're strictly prohibited from using to get the good ending because of the level of screaming and, or explosions that they create. Hacking security systems instead of turning them off is also not encouraged because guards will know someone's been touching their stuff. The "chaos" system is more of a reference to the STYLE of your kills rather than killing versus nonlethal.

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