I wonder how this will go given that a lot of the appeal of the Elder Scrolls games has been the modding community they attract.

Why must the Argonians look scrawny? Just cut and paste the models from Skyrim!

I started to watch without hope, but now, I think it might be a decent enough experience, but not one I want to share in. I really don't like most mmo's, especially not if I have to pay for them.

Latinidiot:
I started to watch without hope, but now, I think it might be a decent enough experience, but not one I want to share in. I really don't like most mmo's, especially not if I have to pay for them.

Agreed. I was very cynical about this whole project, but it actually didn't look so bad. Plus I liked the idea of being able to play as a mage with a warhammer or a healing rogue.

Li Mu:

Latinidiot:
I started to watch without hope, but now, I think it might be a decent enough experience, but not one I want to share in. I really don't like most mmo's, especially not if I have to pay for them.

Agreed. I was very cynical about this whole project, but it actually didn't look so bad. Plus I liked the idea of being able to play as a mage with a warhammer or a healing rogue.

Yeah, that was a good thing! I liked how it used the 'do watever the hell you want' idea we so love about TES and tried to, or well, at least promises to put it in there. It just looks so generic. I know it's hard to make something look original, especially in an mmo, but meh. Perhaps it's because I played Kingdoms of Amalur, and now my fantasy landscape sense is oversaturated.

I'm not as pessimistic now.

My concerns are:
Is it really third person targeting? or is it your typical MMO targeting system where you select the mob/tab to select and start clicking to kill? Could be tedious.

Subscription fee. They cite they want to draw TES and MMO players together. Good luck with a sub-fee. TES players aren't used to subscribing to their universe and their mods are free. MMO players will either be suckling off World of Warcraft still or will have played Guild Wars 2 and find Subscription fees a step-backwards and terrifying.

I do like the whole Where what ever weapon and armour you want. It seems to be the next step in GW2's system where your skill set changes on what Weapons you have equipped.

I got a bad feelin' about this. I don't know why, but little alarms were going off in my head throughout the trailer. Saying: "Wait, there's something wrong here."

scw55:
I'm not as pessimistic now.

My concerns are:
Is it really third person targeting? or is it your typical MMO targeting system where you select the mob/tab to select and start clicking to kill? Could be tedious.

Subscription fee. They cite they want to draw TES and MMO players together. Good luck with a sub-fee. TES players aren't used to subscribing to their universe and their mods are free. MMO players will either be suckling off World of Warcraft still or will have played Guild Wars 2 and find Subscription fees a step-backwards and terrifying.

I do like the whole Where what ever weapon and armour you want. It seems to be the next step in GW2's system where your skill set changes on what Weapons you have equipped.

It appears to be a typical MMO click-to-fight combat system , not a run'n gun system like the Elder Scrolls games. Every fight the characters' feet appear bolted to the floor, and that's a dead giveaway.

I know of a couple MMOs (Planetside, City of Heroes, The Secret World) that also use a run'n gun system and they are hella more fun that way. I don't even want to play a game that doesn't let me actively move around during a fight.

So right there I think the makers of ESO have screwed up the biggest reason people like the ES games. For certain it's the biggest reason *I* like the games.

It looks like a good MMO, but that's just not what I go to ES for... I'll wait on the reviews.

I'm willing to give it a shot as I do enjoy the Elder Scrolls universe, it's just the combat from that trailer looks so static. I've spent the last two months running circles around my foes lobbing glitter bombs as a Mesmer in GW2, so the thought of just standing on the spot spamming skills just doesn't really appeal to me.

Is this the usual way combat in MMOs is conducted? GW2 is the only MMO I've ever played.

w00tage:

scw55:
I'm not as pessimistic now.

My concerns are:
Is it really third person targeting? or is it your typical MMO targeting system where you select the mob/tab to select and start clicking to kill? Could be tedious.

Subscription fee. They cite they want to draw TES and MMO players together. Good luck with a sub-fee. TES players aren't used to subscribing to their universe and their mods are free. MMO players will either be suckling off World of Warcraft still or will have played Guild Wars 2 and find Subscription fees a step-backwards and terrifying.

I do like the whole Where what ever weapon and armour you want. It seems to be the next step in GW2's system where your skill set changes on what Weapons you have equipped.

It appears to be a typical MMO click-to-fight combat system , not a run'n gun system like the Elder Scrolls games. Every fight the characters' feet appear bolted to the floor, and that's a dead giveaway.

I know of a couple MMOs (Planetside, City of Heroes, The Secret World) that also use a run'n gun system and they are hella more fun that way. I don't even want to play a game that doesn't let me actively move around during a fight.

So right there I think the makers of ESO have screwed up the biggest reason people like the ES games. For certain it's the biggest reason *I* like the games.

Shame. Because GW2 has achieved a compromise between the two. You do sort of stand still to fight. But if you don't want to be melee'd in the face it's a good idea to move away.

Damn that looks pretty. This is an MMO? How the hell am I going to be able to run this? I can barely run the Old Republic as it is.

But yes, I will be getting this if not just because I've always dreamed of exploring all of Tamriel instead of on a game-by-game basis.

Won't be the best MMO on the market, but this will be a fantastic experience for those who love the lore of the Elder Scrolls like me.

w00tage:
It appears to be a typical MMO click-to-fight combat system , not a run'n gun system like the Elder Scrolls games. Every fight the characters' feet appear bolted to the floor, and that's a dead giveaway.

And yet they talk about how the mouse makes you look around and is used to target your weapon. How clicking the left mouse button makes you attack and holding it charges an attack, how the right makes you block. It all sounds exactly like how TES usually works.

However, that's for melee. They carefully avoided the topics of archery and magic. That still makes me sort of skeptical. Other than that it looks really cool.

Dangerious P. Cats:
I wonder how this will go given that a lot of the appeal of the Elder Scrolls games has been the modding community they attract.

I actually have enjoyed the series perfectly fine without mods, i have played with mods and they do improve the game but i still enjoy vanilla a huge amount.

This trailer eased me a bit, but I'm a bit worried about the combat. I'm glad you can just do whatever you want, because I love going heavy-armor mage, but I'm getting the feeling it'll be a bit... sticky... An MMO that I find really does combat well is Vindictus. It's hack n slash and VERY dynamic. I feel like TES online could benefit from a similar system.

Why do the Argonians look like such ass? I mean, seriously, they're not exactly pretty to begin with, but all of the Argonians in the trailer had this hideous triangular nose ridge on their muzzle that looked -awful-
As for the gameplay, eh. It'll just be WoW again.
All in all, this one is dead -before- arrival. They've screwed it's chances in every conceivable way. It'll launch, it'll flop, the world will move on, WoW will still dominate, nothing of value will have been lost.

Too bad they're going with monthly subscription payment method. Why can't more MMO developers do what Guild Wars 2 does?

Cowabungaa:

w00tage:
It appears to be a typical MMO click-to-fight combat system , not a run'n gun system like the Elder Scrolls games. Every fight the characters' feet appear bolted to the floor, and that's a dead giveaway.

And yet they talk about how the mouse makes you look around and is used to target your weapon. How clicking the left mouse button makes you attack and holding it charges an attack, how the right makes you block. It all sounds exactly like how TES usually works.

However, that's for melee. They carefully avoided the topics of archery and magic. That still makes me sort of skeptical. Other than that it looks really cool.

True, and not to be a nitpicker, but that sounds like they just took the auto out of auto-attack. The real damage is that you're locked into an MMO-style battle of the numbers - whoever has the better DPS and HPs is going to win. To me, that's a system that can't claim to be a "TES-style combat system", because the freedom to create your own opportunities for victory has been taken away. You can only do what the designers thought of letting you do.

Disclaimer, this is all from my perspective of what's fun, and "win by numbers" isn't in it. I always found the later TES games too easy to win, and that's by design - the developers have admitted to over-powering player characters because "we want to the player to feel awesome". I mod all the TES games for realistic combat and harder difficulty and that's when they get fun for me, so that's the lens through which I'm viewing this game.

'9 races' huh?

Ken_J:
'9 races' huh?

Probably no orcs.

The Rogue Wolf:

Mortons4ck:

Ken_J:
'9 races' huh?

Probably no orcs.

Actually, from what I've read Imperials are the missing race. Apparently the MMO takes place in a slice of the ES timeline before the founding of the Empire.

I think I saw a goblin in the trailer too. Makes sense, as the Aldmeri Dominion trained them as Shock Troops. (Though that may just be one of Khajiit sub-species)

Listening to their claims...

- The worst thing about new mmos is different servers and difficulty in finding your friends?
Err... maybe I'm unique in this, but while that is sometimes a bit annoying, the worst things about new mmos is the craptonne of bugs, excessive lag and people running around nicking my mobs.

- Ability to use any weapon (effectively) you want with any class you want?
Yeah, good luck balancing that. Not saying it can't be done, but you got your work cut out for you.

- Raids, dungeoneering and PvP
Been done before, so you better get it done right. Swtor showed that people will NOT abide with half-measures when it comes to the endgame. A fully working dungeon-finder, or other sleek function to create groups FOR the players, needs to be in place right at the start.

- Bringing together people from both MMOs and TES.
The snarky cynic in me would like to point out that people like TES because its an epic singleplayer experience.
The first WoW folks came from Warcraft 2 and 3, which had a strong multiplayer following. Also, the systems in place in Warcraft were simple and clearly defined. Despite this, Blizzard still had a hard time balancing it well.

TES, on the other hand, has traditionally contained a fuckton of different spells, abilities and character builds. Many of which turned out to be redundant, ineffectual or just gimmicky. Also it was easily possible to break the game using enchantments and alchemy.
All this is absolutely FINE for a singleplayer game (since the computer will never complain about unfairness), but will prove to be an absolute HELL to balance for multiplayer. Especially PvP. The alternative is to streamline it and simplify the systems to make them managable, but that will remove the 1 single unique feature of this MMO. The massive customization options that are so iconic to the TES games.

I'm not saying this game can't succeed. Anything is possible.
I'm saying that the odds are stacked terribly high against it, and I fully expect them to crash and burn. Especially if they commit the cardinal sin of charging a subscription fee for it right at the start.

What I am most dreading here is the lack of isolation. That was always one of the biggest draws of the Elder Scrolls for me - exploring, adventuring, and living in a wilderness world. This? Unless they draw heavily on procedurally generated content/terrain, it'll be the typical case of more level 10 hunters in the woods than wild boars.

How does one become immersed in an MMORPG when other people are always present to take you out of the experience? Tell me that, Bethesda, or go away.

w00tage:

It appears to be a typical MMO click-to-fight combat system , not a run'n gun system like the Elder Scrolls games. Every fight the characters' feet appear bolted to the floor, and that's a dead giveaway.

I know of a couple MMOs (Planetside, City of Heroes, The Secret World) that also use a run'n gun system and they are hella more fun that way. I don't even want to play a game that doesn't let me actively move around during a fight.

So right there I think the makers of ESO have screwed up the biggest reason people like the ES games. For certain it's the biggest reason *I* like the games.

Did you miss the part of the video were people were attacking a giant thing while jumping?

Yeah, no. My cynicism is itching more than ever. It may look pretty, but how can you expect a company so willing to disregard lore or basic logic to make a game that can actually pull off what they claim?

SajuukKhar:

w00tage:

It appears to be a typical MMO click-to-fight combat system , not a run'n gun system like the Elder Scrolls games. Every fight the characters' feet appear bolted to the floor, and that's a dead giveaway.

I know of a couple MMOs (Planetside, City of Heroes, The Secret World) that also use a run'n gun system and they are hella more fun that way. I don't even want to play a game that doesn't let me actively move around during a fight.

So right there I think the makers of ESO have screwed up the biggest reason people like the ES games. For certain it's the biggest reason *I* like the games.

Did you miss the part of the video were people were attacking a giant thing while jumping?

I guess so, I didn't see any part where characters actually moved. Lemme look again.
... ok I see what you mean, but that looks like scripted animations for attacks. I do see people moving around a bit independently, but that's something you can do in any targeted-combat MMO.

So, I dunno. I'd say we need to put that combat up against other TES title's third-person combat videos to see the difference in style.

lancar:
Listening to their claims...

- The worst thing about new mmos is different servers and difficulty in finding your friends?
Err... maybe I'm unique in this, but while that is sometimes a bit annoying, the worst things about new mmos is the craptonne of bugs, excessive lag and people running around nicking my mobs.

I'm kind of with them on that. I bought two copies of EQ1 on launch day, one for me and one for my friend downstairs. We installed them, endured the launch-day failures, and finally created chars and logged in together, to find out we were about 300 game miles apart. There literally was an ocean and a continent in between our chars, because starting cities for races were hard-locked.

So that whole "let's play EQ1 together" thing ended up "let's play EQ1 and chat together" until I could get to a level where I could a) afford and b) survive the trip to join up with him. I ended up making a different char that would let me make the overland trip in only 3 hours or so and made it by level 9, or about 12 game hours later.

I even still see MMOs doing this by forcing a starting city choice and attaching character-affecting options to it. Why isn't there an option for "home city this, BUT I'm visiting my friend over in THAT city, so start me there please. Kthxbai!" lol.

w00tage:
I even still see MMOs doing this by forcing a starting city choice and attaching character-affecting options to it. Why isn't there an option for "home city this, BUT I'm visiting my friend over in THAT city, so start me there please. Kthxbai!" lol.

You can do that in GW2. Once you're out of the 5 minute tutorial area you can run back into your home city, take a portal to Lion's Arch, and take the nearby portal to your friend's city. Takes just a minute or so, and you're able to start playing together.

I keep thinking of GW2 when I see new MMOs and wondering why people are sticking with certain hallmarks of older MMO design. I guess GW2 only came out 3 months ago, but some things from that game should really be implemented immediately in every MMO. (Even little things like being able to check your mail from anywhere, and of course some of the biggest things for me: instanced loot and no mob tagging.)