Jimquisition: Fake Nerd Girls

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Roofstone:
Fake Gamer Girl? Never really noticed an issue with such thing, the closest thing I can think of is the hipster with fake glasses that go like "Lol I'm such a nerd!" on facebook. I wanna slap them in the back of the head and go "No, you're not".

That is the closest I can get to hating fake nerd girls..

Same here. Maybe it's just guys who've been shot down by booth babes.

Actually, the games individuals obsess over are made by people who look like any other geek on the internet, working 16 hour days FOR those suit wearing pricks who don't appear to represent the medium in the slightest. :)

But that's an entirely different kettle of fish.

Speksi:
I've been photographing for 15 years or something. I've worked as a professional photographer, both a freelancer and a 9-5 job, I've held classes about photography. I've displayed my pictures in a gallery, though it wasn't as glorious as it may sound. My photos have meaning behind them, I have my own style, I know the technology and settings inside out etc. I have passion for the artform.

I'm a photographer. I've paid the dues to become one. I've put in the hours require to be able to proudly call myself a photographer.

How do you think it makes me feel when I see teenage girls, who obviously only do it because it's fashionable, and easier at the beginning than, say, playing an instrument, post their generic landscape photos on Facebook, list "Photography" as their passion and hobby, and call themselves photography artists? It's insulting. It devalues an artform I love. It devalues the effort I've put in.

Well, I've been a photographer for about 25 years. And what do I think of those people? Not much. How does it "devalue the artform"? How does it devalue the efforts you've put in?

The answer is that it doesn't. How does somebody else pretending to be something take away the skills you've learned? How does it have any impact on the art form? Your photographs or your skills don't lose any of their worth just because somebody else might say they have more skill or passion than they actually do.

matthew_lane:
Um, is english not your first language or something? Or did you chose not to read what was actually written & just assume what was there?

This is not about me judging people, its about the long standing tradition of all geeks to judge all other geeks & the lively discussion that crops up around it: Always has, always will, it is after all the natrual state of being for ALL human beings.

What does English have to do with it? I understood what I read, and if you meant to say something else, then maybe you should think about expressing yourself better, because I don't think my interpretation was wrong.

You even go on to reiterate that your intent was to judge people, because this is a "long standing tradition of all geeks." It's not. There are plenty of geeks and nerds who don't go around constantly trying to judge people. My point is that if that is what's important to you about nerd/gamer/geek culture, then you should probably stop, because it's damn stupid. That's not what's valuable about those "cultures," if you can even call them that.

WOPR:

Yopaz:
I rarely agree this much with him. Seriously, why would anyone get upset over a person being so desperate for your attention that she pretends to like what you do just to get attention? It seems like a strange thing to get upset over, but I don't know.

I'm sure people have replied but let me throw my 2 cents in. I don't get "angry" per-say, I just get really annoyed with them.

As for the "fake nerd girls" that actually do bug me, I don't "hate" them, they're just annoying... It's like shoving a republican in a room full of democrats, almost every person in there will see this guy and think "Ugh he has no idea what he's talking about and we really wish he would just shut up and leave". At least that's what the fake nerd girls here are like...

Terrible analogy there, that's an example of fundamental disagreement. A better example would be to put someone who's never studied any science besides what he learned in high school while thinking he understand it in a room of scientists. I have had several discussions trying to explain evolution to someone who's misunderstood the basic concepts of it and refusing to believe that he is wrong.

Now that wasn't the topic on hand so let's get back on track. I have never seen Nintendo commercials because it's illegal to run advertisement directed towards kids here (which means almost no game commercials at all) so I wont comment on that. For the rest of it though I agree. It's annoying and there's no way around it. I just don't see a reason to hate it and to get upset over it. They want to think of themselves as nerds, OK I don't see a problem with that. They want to discuss something they wouldn't know existed if it wasn't for The Big Bang Theory? OK, now we're talking annoying.

No matter how hard I try, I can't bring myself to disagree with your statement. They are annoying and that's final. The problem though is those who feel so much pride in being a nerd that they force anyone who calls themselves a gamer or a nerd to prove themselves like it's a protected title. This is the path towards becoming a misogynist.

Now you're right that you're not the first one to quote me, but you are the first one who isn't a misogynist who uses every negative stereotype about both nerds and girls so I feel refreshed by your post. Thank you for being reasonable.

Jim raised some interesting points here, but I think he may be looking at it from the wrong angle.

The issue (at least in my case) is people overstating their interest in and appreciation of something in order to get attention, and make no mistake, there are both men and women who do this.

I'm going to cite a friend of mine. She's a massive Sonic fan. I am the only person I know who even comes anywhere near her appreciation of Sonic the Hedgehog, and barely at that. One of the most annoying things for her is when someone comes up to her and declares themselves a "massive Sonic fan", while having never heard of the Freedom Fighters or even played a Sonic game. I'm told that this has happened more than once.

And that's what it is. Annoying. Someone's cosplay might imply that you have something to connect over. It's fairly disappointing to find someone who might potentially become a friend (or, let's be honest about internet people -- someone to hopelessly pine after and secretly masturbate to), but, in truth, have found someone who shares very little with you besides a preliminary knowledge of something you really like. It feels cruel when you've poured countless hours into video games, sacrificed what social life you had watching cartoons (time well spent in my books), and made innumerable screen prints of Gurren Lagaan fan art to earn your fandom, while this girl in front of you follows maybe a blog or two. What did she do for her Yoko cosplay? Airbrush some flames on a bikini? You've poured your life into this.

That's probably a bad example. Most Gurren Lagaan fans would give their left arm to see a Yoko cosplay.

The point: I tend to be pretty bothered to see someone call themselves a huge fan of something without having the knowledge commonly associated with being a huge fan. It makes everything about your own fandom feel that much cheaper. It's not *rage to the whole internet* annoying, but it is pretty irritating nonetheless.

On the other hand, it's also my opinion that these people are just beginners. You could connect over introducing them to the finer points of something you think is really cool. Of course, if they respond with "no, I think that's too..." or something along those lines, feel free to get a little irritated. They just turned down that thing they just said they were big into. Their "grand interest" is a straight-up lie.

GunsmithKitten:
No, my point is that male geeks don't get checked BASED ON THEIR GENDER. We do.

No, you don't. You keep on insinuating, or in this case coming right out & declaring that you are being geek checked due to your gender... Predominately no. 90% of the geek checking is completely due to your presence as a potential geek. But on the few occassions that it does happen based on gender, how is it different then the reaction men get for joining predominately female focused groups? The same level of skeptisism can be found there & exactly the same rhetoric.

In the end this has nothing to do with gender.

GunsmithKitten:
Cold Wars 98, Don Featherstone's wife gave a great speech on maintaining and organizing local wargaming clubs.

An did you or someone else record this panel?

GunsmithKitten:

matthew_lane:

This is not about me judging people

Son, you're the one who called me being a console gamer as perpetuating "all that is wrong with the world."

Judging people is bad enough, but take some freaking responsibility for it instead of masking it behind such mealy mouthed passive aggressive fluff.

Actually i said no such thing.

Aardvaarkman:
You even go on to reiterate that your intent was to judge people, because this is a "long standing tradition of all geeks."

/facepalm

Aardvaarkman:
It's not. There are plenty of geeks and nerds who don't go around constantly trying to judge people.

no there isn't: Its basic human nature. Any geek you see who appears not to be judging your geekdom is either in the same franchise as you & you have yet to say anything to disagree with his sub set of that franchise, or is in a different franchise & has just chosen not to open his or her mouth to disagree with you yet.

Just because he's or she isn't telling you that you are wrong, doesn't mean he or she is not judging you still.

Aardvaarkman:
Well, I've been a photographer for about 25 years. And what do I think of those people? Not much. How does it "devalue the artform"? How does it devalue the efforts you've put in?

The answer is that it doesn't. How does somebody else pretending to be something take away the skills you've learned? How does it have any impact on the art form? Your photographs or your skills don't lose any of their worth just because somebody else might say they have more skill or passion than they actually do.

In the eyes of the general public, it devalues the artform. People don't see photography as something that could have as much meaning as paintings, but instead it's just teenage girls taking pictures of their Converses, and nothing to be taken seriously. Not an artform, just something quick and easy that anyone can do, is the general way of thinking.

And more than anything, it's insulting to me. You don't become a photographer overnight, much like you don't become an artist or a professional anything overnight. You pay the dues, you WORK your way up, and once you've done the work you can claim the rewards, and call yourself whatever.

You don't become a gamer by getting an Xbox and playing Halo for an hour here and there. Moreover, if you're a gamer, then your sex shouldn't have any bearing on anything, so why do GURLLLL GAM3RS feel the need to shout their gender from the rooftops? It's attention whoring, and it's bloody annoying.

"YES I'M A GURLLL YES I OWN U IN COD SO STOP HITTING ON ME SILLY BOYS ;) xoxoxo xXP1NkSn1P4HlADy69Xx"

Speksi:

Aardvaarkman:
Well, I've been a photographer for about 25 years. And what do I think of those people? Not much. How does it "devalue the artform"? How does it devalue the efforts you've put in?

The answer is that it doesn't. How does somebody else pretending to be something take away the skills you've learned? How does it have any impact on the art form? Your photographs or your skills don't lose any of their worth just because somebody else might say they have more skill or passion than they actually do.

In the eyes of the general public, it devalues the artform. People don't see photography as something that could have as much meaning as paintings, but instead it's just teenage girls taking pictures of their Converses, and nothing to be taken seriously. Not an artform, just something quick and easy that anyone can do, is the general way of thinking.

And more than anything, it's insulting to me. You don't become a photographer overnight, much like you don't become an artist or a professional anything overnight. You pay the dues, you WORK your way up, and once you've done the work you can claim the rewards, and call yourself whatever.

You don't become a gamer by getting an Xbox and playing Halo for an hour here and there. Moreover, if you're a gamer, then your sex shouldn't have any bearing on anything, so why do GURLLLL GAM3RS feel the need to shout their gender from the rooftops? It's attention whoring, and it's bloody annoying.

"YES I'M A GURLLL YES I OWN U IN COD SO STOP HITTING ON ME SILLY BOYS ;) xoxoxo xXP1NkSn1P4HlADy69Xx"

SO what is the final, hard and fast, once and for all, objective and agreed upon standard for being able to call yourself a "gamer"? What are the required hours and accomplishments?

I'm seriously going to be writing my congressman for an official liscensure system so that we can SHUT UP about this for good, but I need a bar to set.

Overall I agree most definitely, as long as it's in turn not taken too far itself where any halfway negative comment about a female gamer is somehow a grave sin.

Rampant commercialism and advertising based on attaching boobs to EVERYTHING are annoying. I reserve the right to sigh at commercials featuring actors there purely to display their cleavage (as I would likewise sigh at many commercials featuring male actors purely there to display their abs). Although I'd be the first to point out that this is the fault of the advertisers and not the actors in question.

Same for some of the youtube shows you get occasionally where women with their breasts spilling out 'report' on minor gaming news from two weeks ago. Just to stress, I'm talking about sighing in annoyance and likewise reactions. Even writing a comment to insult that person in any way or form would be, imho, going too far. But there's nothing wrong about disliking such pandering, as long as you don't go out of your way to hate on it.

If the last 19 pages are what gaming "culture" is about, horrible elitism, mistrust, crass barely hidden misogyny, then maybe it's not worth saving at all from whatever imaginary threat it is facing. Let's burn it to the ground and salt the earth. Let people enjoy games like they enjoy movies or books. Let's stop pretending like we know what a REAL gamer or a REAL geek is. It's a pathetic attempt to reduce people around you and yourself to your hobbies.

If other people enjoying games but not knowing as much about them, or hell, even the what, 0.5% who mat be faking it, is so threatening to you because gaming is the sole thing that you can identify by, maybe YOU are the problem. People don't fit in little boxes. There is no one definition of a gamer. It's a term so outdated that it is bound to vanish, and the sooner the better. Everybody play games. People have been playing games for thousands of years.

Someone who plays a couple of hours of Halo a week, someone who plays Farmville with a strategy to maximize profit, someone who plays chest with his friends every weeks, someone who plays Angry Bird on the bus on the way to his/her 9-5 job, someone who plays real complex PC strategy games and someone who plays Dark Soul. They all have a thing in common, they all play games. Let's not even try to figure out who amongst them is more of a gamer than the other.

GunsmithKitten:
SO what is the final, hard and fast, once and for all, objective and agreed upon standard for being able to call yourself a "gamer"? What are the required hours and accomplishments?

I'm seriously going to be writing my congressman for an official liscensure system so that we can SHUT UP about this for good, but I need a bar to set.

Let's say 20 years, at least 5 different platforms, at least two titles competitively and at least three different MMORPG's since they were in alpha.

Seriously though, it's more about the pathetic "Gamer Girl" image. There are no gamer girls or gamer guys, just people who enjoy gaming, which is why I find it incomprehensible why one's gender would be in any way relevant if you only play games for the sake of playing games. If you feel the need to talk about or bring up your gender, chances are you're not a gamer, but a pathetic attention whore, only in it for the sake of feeling wanted.

I was trying to look for an image I've seen before with GAM3R GURLLLL profiles from Steam community to further illustrate my point, but I was unable to, but what I found instead was http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/SamSlothel/GurlGamer-GamerGirl.jpg which is also good.

While I'm only talking about gamer gurlllz, you can of course apply similar logic to fake nerdy girls. One good example of such a woman was one particular attractice female, with whom I watched Transformers 3 a couple of days ago. After the movie, I went to IMDB to see how much money the movie had made (because I'm interested in trivia like that), and afterwards commented on how movies like this that have huge fanbases since they've been around for so long always make a ton of money. To which she replied: "Well the first one came in 2007.."

Now, I'm not a fan of Transformers, or any space and/or robot stuff in general, but even I knew Transformers have been around for FAR longer than that. Ignorance in itself is fine, I mean nobody can know everything about everything, but she called herself a nerd who just looooves Transformers. How much can you love something if you don't know the first thing about it?

Mind you, I think nerds, both real and fake, are sad, but I can at least respect the real nerds for being themselves, and not putting on a front for attention/acceptance. Attention whores I can't stand

Speksi:
if you're a gamer, then your sex shouldn't have any bearing on anything, so why do GURLLLL GAM3RS feel the need to shout their gender from the rooftops? It's attention whoring, and it's bloody annoying.

BNWAHAHJAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yeah, sex does not matter? Then why do people keep attacking female regulars on the TF2 server I visit? How do they know they are female? Well, they talk. And that is literally enough to tick people like you off, assume they are 'gamur gurlz' and giving them shit.

So may I ask you: Why does the sex of the people who play with you matter?

matthew_lane:
snip

In my life of 24 years, at least 15 of those as a gamer, I have never been even once geek-checked. And no, I don't look like a geek at all. I don't wear anything that resembles geekdom, most people just know one thing when they meet me: I love good shoes. Whenever I started talking about games or such I seen many surprised faces but never even once some guy started to check my knowledge about gaming. Especially since I most probably would fail it because my knowledge is only focused on the few things I like (oldschool FPS, Gothic 1+2, the ~100 indie games on Steam, Warcraft and Warhammer, Magic and some P&P RPGs).

Speksi:

Let's say 20 years, at least 5 different platforms, at least two titles competitively and at least three different MMORPG's since they were in alpha.

harsh, as I wouldn't qualify....

20 years, got it.

Five different platforms, no problemo....

But THREE MMORPG's since alpha? Ouch, I'd fail, since Ran is the only one I did since alpha. I got into WoW just before BC, and didn't do Ultima Online until it was full widespread.

Seriously though, it's more about the pathetic "Gamer Girl" image. There are no gamer girls or gamer guys, just people who enjoy gaming, which is why I find it incomprehensible why one's gender would be in any way relevant if you only play games for the sake of playing games.

So do I.

If you feel the need to talk about or bring up your gender, chances are you're not a gamer, but a pathetic attention whore, only in it for the sake of feeling wanted.

And bringing up someone else's gender in the discussion?

TheKasp:
BNWAHAHJAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yeah, sex does not matter? Then why do people keep attacking female regulars on the TF2 server I visit? How do they know they are female? Well, they talk. And that is literally enough to tick people like you off, assume they are 'gamur gurlz' and giving them shit.

So may I ask you: Why does the sex of the people who play with you matter?

I'm sorry, I don't play TF2, or any other modern shooter for that matter. I have played CS, the older versions to be precise, with women and against women, and never once has it pissed me off. I have ran my mouth off about it, but you know what, I run my mouth at everyone, regardless of their gender. The difference is, at the end of it all, I can say GG, because the women I've played with never expected to be treated differently for being women, and they respond to my trash talk by talking it right back.

These women are not the problem. When they join a server or vent, they don't go "THATS RIGHT I'M A WOMAN DEAL WITH IT (oh god please someone pay attention to me)", they go "Sup fags, let's play". They don't want the attention for being female, and if someone gives it to them regardless, they ignore it.

http://steamcommunity.com/actions/Search?K=Girl+Gamer&x=0&y=0
http://specialsnowflakesyndrome.tumblr.com/post/20354624027/steam-gamer-girls-the-master-post

Why do these people feel the need to mention their gender in their posts/bio? I don't. Because they think they are special, and deserve the special attention for it. Only reason I can think of.

Speksi:
I'm sorry, I don't play TF2, or any other modern shooter for that matter. I have played CS, the older versions to be precise, with women and against women, and never once has it pissed me off. I have ran my mouth off about it, but you know what, I run my mouth at everyone, regardless of their gender. The difference is, at the end of it all, I can say GG, because the women I've played with never expected to be treated differently for being women, and they respond to my trash talk by talking it right back.

These women are not the problem. When they join a server or vent, they don't go "THATS RIGHT I'M A WOMAN DEAL WITH IT (oh god please someone pay attention to me)", they go "Sup fags, let's play". They don't want the attention for being female, and if someone gives it to them regardless, they ignore it.

http://steamcommunity.com/actions/Search?K=Girl+Gamer&x=0&y=0
http://specialsnowflakesyndrome.tumblr.com/post/20354624027/steam-gamer-girls-the-master-post

Why do these people feel the need to mention their gender in their posts/bio? I don't. Because they think they are special, and deserve the special attention for it. Only reason I can think of.

What am I supposed to see in those links? The profile search is pretty normal, I don't see anything that implies that the girls who added 'girl' in their username expect to be treated different. If you think that... Does it work the other way? With males who add anything genderrelated to their profile name?

And those descirptions are the result of what happens to a random girl who decides to join a server and not keep her mouth shut (as in, she actually wants to play): She does get shit from the random idiots who think that she is a 'gurl gamer' - something I have yet to encounter in 15 years of multiplayer (14 with internet).

A small edit:

The thing is: I don't care about the gender. I don't care about the cred of someone. I don't care if someone behaves obnoxious during gameplay - What I do care about if someone starts behaving like a jackass. I have banned a ton of people because they started attacking regulars on my server, I've seen a lot of bans because some asshats thought that because [I hide the nickname] thought it was funny to sing a small line after each time she was killed she is a 'grul gamer' that deserves abuse.

And that is the problem: Deserves abuse. Why? Why the fuck should I start feeling attacked in my hobby if random bimbo 11 decides to wear geek-clothes because it is hip? I don't fucking care, I never wear geekclothes because labeling is stupid. So now she wears geek-clothes and procalaims she is one... Is it harming you? Is it in any way affecting you? Is she springing out of the bushes in your face and is yelling "I AM GEEK! YOU SHALL BE ASSIMILATED!"? No? Then leave her be. After a few month she is going to jump on the next hip thing and you both enjoyed the time being (as in - you never had contact).

I see no reason to assume someone wants to be treated special because the person states her gender in a profile on the internet. You know, that is kind of... normal. People who look on my Steam profile can see that I am a male from germany. Here they also get my age. So why is it not a problem in discussion forums, where gender can be looked up without risking anything or going out of the way but Steam where I have to go out of my fucking way to get on the profile of someone and also risking a potential death / loss (depending on the game)?

I don't get this issue. At all. What is so special about girls gaming that people get in the husses when someone points out that gamers behave like dicks towards females? Why is it not a problem if I helicopter my dick around in game X but if a women even talks she gets shit from ten sides and ends up labeled as 'gurl gamer'?

I think learning english helped to break my illusion that gamers are 'nice' people. I remember when I got on my first big lan with 12. The place next to me sat a girl, she played games I did not really care about and when some tournaments were handeled and we both flew out of the ones of our choosing she asked me if I wanted to play Worms Armageddon - and kicked my ass in it. Then we played GTA2 and I dominated her. Hmm... I did not even know her name, I did not care. She was a fellow gamer on a lan and that's it.

TheKasp:
What am I supposed to see in those links? The profile search is pretty normal, I don't see anything that implies that the girls who added 'girl' in their username expect to be treated different. If you think that... Does it work the other way? With males who add anything genderrelated to their profile name?

And those descirptions are the result of what happens to a random girl who decides to join a server and not keep her mouth shut (as in, she actually wants to play): She does get shit from the random idiots who think that she is a 'gurl gamer' - something I have yet to encounter in 15 years of multiplayer (14 with internet).

What you are supposed to see is "PAY ATTENTION TO MEEE!". Gaming is a male dominated culture, so when a guy references to himself as a "he", it's not seeking attention, it's just.. Well, everyone already assumed it, so who cares. When a girl does it, it's more along the lines of "LOOK! LOOK! I'M A GIRL, NOT A GUY AS YOU EXPECTED! BUT PLEASE DON'T TALK ABOUT IT!". And no, profiles like that are not the result of being harrassed, it's attention whoring at it's finest.

I don't know what it is you've been doing in the internet for 14 years, but what you should probably have picked up along the way is if you don't want to be called out on something you don't go "LOOK AT THIS THING I DON'T WANT ANYONE TO LOOK AT, AND PLEASE DON'T TALK ABOUT IT!".

I can't speak for the 12-year olds who play TF2/CoD/Halo/Whatever, but from my experience girls who like to play games are VERY different from girls who are in it for the attention. I have several female acquintances who play games, but who I've never heard talking about themselves as girl gamers. They are just girls who enjoy a rather male-dominated pastime. Gurl gamerzz, on the other hand, seem to mostly be a problem for console gamers, and only rarely does one encounter them in PC games.

Girls who play hockey don't refer to themselves as HOCKEY GURLLLS. Girls who tinker about with their cars/motorcycles don't call themselves CAR GURLLZ or MOTORCYCLE GURLLZ. Guys who like cooking don't call themselves GUY CHEFS. Guys who like Sex and the City (assuming they exist) don't call themselves GUYS WHO LIKE SEX AND THE CITY.

Why is it that girls who like gaming have to constantly bring it up? Don't you have a personality beyond your extra X chromosome?

Speksi:

What you are supposed to see is "PAY ATTENTION TO MEEE!". Gaming is a male dominated culture, so when a guy references to himself as a "he", it's not seeking attention, it's just.. Well, everyone already assumed it, so who cares. When a girl does it, it's more along the lines of "LOOK! LOOK! I'M A GIRL, NOT A GUY AS YOU EXPECTED! BUT PLEASE DON'T TALK ABOUT IT!". And no, profiles like that are not the result of being harrassed, it's attention whoring at it's finest.

*sigh* Gaming was a male dominated culture. By now it is pretty fucking normal that girls play games.

I don't know what it is you've been doing in the internet for 14 years, but what you should probably have picked up along the way is if you don't want to be called out on something you don't go "LOOK AT THIS THING I DON'T WANT ANYONE TO LOOK AT, AND PLEASE DON'T TALK ABOUT IT!".

I picked up that about half the gamers go out of their way to behave like the biggest dicks whenever there is a slight chance there might be a female on the server (and be it just a feminine nickname and avatar). Then I started to play on dedicated servers with strict admin regulation.

And you miss it: Why should they hide their gender?

Why is it that girls who like gaming have to constantly bring it up?

Because they have still to fight for the gaming community to accept them as equal. That. Fucking. Simple.

TheKasp:
Because they have still to fight for the gaming community to accept them as equal. That. Fucking. Simple.

Why would anyone accept you as an equal if YOU are the one who HAS to try and act as if you're different, namely by pointing at your gender and going "LOOK, DIFFERENT!"? The best way to be accepted as an equal is to act like an equal. I've never used my own picture as a profile picture on forums/games/steam community, despite the fact that I'm really a rather handsome chap, but I don't see why I would. It's got nothing to do with my life online.

I don't care about my Steam profile, I care about the games I play, which is why I don't call myself [insert some retarded smiley] THE HANDSOME FINNISH MALE, 24-YEARS OF AGE [another retarded smiley]. I also don't have a bio, because again it has nothing to do with me playing games, but if I did, it most certainly wouldn't say "Yes I'm a good looking, athletic, intelligent male with a larger than average prostate. I like music, sports, games, and cooking (JUST BECAUSE I'M A MAN DON'T THINK I CAN'T COOK BETTER THAN YOU). But, despite all these things, please don't hit on me silly girls, I'm only here to play games!".

If I did, I would be attention whoring, and would be in no position to complain if someone were to ask pictures of the aforementioned prostate. But since I don't bring it up, nobody has. I also rarely use any of my actual nicknames, but instead just smash in something along the lines of DSAF, because I don't want the attention, I just want to play in peace. If I used a nickname along the lines of "HANDSOME GUY 22CM", I would once again have nobody but myself to blame if someone asked the meaning behind the 22cm.

Like it or not, gaming is still a culture populated by men. I consider WoW to be a fairly gender-neutral game, in that people from both sexes can find it enjoyable to an equal degree. I tried looking for stats on how many WoW players are men, and how many women, but the best rough estimate I could find was from about 60% men to about 75% men. And remember, it doesn't get much more gender-neutral than a fantasy MMO. If you want to blend in with the men, you don't go "I HAVE BREASTS!", you go "So how about that last update, eh?".

Speksi:

Why would anyone accept you as an equal if YOU are the one who HAS to try and act as if you're different, namely by pointing at your gender and going "LOOK, DIFFERENT!"? The best way to be accepted as an equal is to act like an equal. I've never used my own picture as a profile picture on forums/games/steam community, despite the fact that I'm really a rather handsome chap, but I don't see why I would. It's got nothing to do with my life online.

They point it out because of how people online behave. They label them and try to make them stand out (and I mean female gamers in general). They start to attack them solely on gender so some women / girls just embrace that. And really: Why should they not

I don't care about my Steam profile, I care about the games I play, which is why I don't call myself [insert some retarded smiley] THE HANDSOME FINNISH MALE, 24-YEARS OF AGE [another retarded smiley]. I also don't have a bio, because again it has nothing to do with me playing games, but if I did, it most certainly wouldn't say "Yes I'm a good looking, athletic, intelligent male with a larger than average prostate. I like music, sports, games, and cooking (JUST BECAUSE I'M A MAN DON'T THINK I CAN'T COOK BETTER THAN YOU). But, despite all these things, please don't hit on me silly girls, I'm only here to play games!".

And yet you care about the profiles of others... Why? How can you say that you aren't interested in your profile but seem to spend enough time on profiles of others?

Also: You don't care about your profile, so fucking what? I care about it because my steam profile is 1: a part of my social network and 2: my reputation as a trader. It seems that you have missed it but: Steam is not 'just' a gaming platform anymore. There are people who actually use Steam like Facebook but with less spam.

Speksi:

Not embracing it seems like a good way to not stand out amongst the crowd. Isn't that sort of exactly what you wanted, or am I missing the point?

Depends on what your goal is. If you don't want to change anything and keep your head down, deactivate voice and just try not to give out any hint that you might now be a dickowner, yeah, then it is a good idea to not embrace it.

But why should they?

TheKasp:
So does your gender have something to do with your status as a reliable trader? I only have actual friends on my friends list, and all of them know my gender from, well, BEING MY FRIENDS. Again, no reason to bring it up, unless you like seeing random people invite you as friends, which again just screams ATTENTION WHORE OVER HERE.

Well, people on my friends list range from friends that I know from RL to people I got to know out of other games that live across the country to people who I met on steampowered games to people who I just follow on to the server because they are better than me in TF2 and by playing with better peeps I can only get better.

I also have yet to see a reason why I should not put my gender into my profile.

As I also mentioned, if I did care about my Steam profile, I still wouldn't see a reason to post my own picture, or exact details of my life. Do you? I mean I can write about my hobbies, my likes and dislikes, and pretty much everything you can possibly want to tell people on a bio shown only on a gaming service, and STILL not reveal my gender.

Why do people write down their hobbies on social platforms? That is an equally valid question because Steam became that: a mixup of a store and facebook.

I don't spend time looking at profiles of other people, except today I did to prove a point. The reason I'm discussing this particular matter here is for the same reason I discuss the NHL lockout elsewhere. When I see something I have an opinion about, and a possibility to change it (always something I personally like, or love even), I do it, even if it's futile. Attention whoring G4M3R_GURLZ make online gaming, and related websites/medias less enjoyable solely by being obnoxious attention whores, so speaking against them is community service. I don't enjoy watching people make places where I spend time less enjoyable for me, so if I can do something about it, I will, even if it's just speaking out on a forum like this.

And yet you failed to make any kind of point. I did not see anything obnoxious about the profiles in the steam search nor the website you posted. I also still fail to see how women in gaming ruin your sacred treehouse. Because this is all it boils down to.

I've been wondering for a while, but are you by any chance one of those My Little Pony dips**ts, as well as apparently being hell-bent on being recognized as a female online for whatever reason?

If with "dipshit" you mean fan then yes. I am a MLP fan. And if I'd wanted to be recognized as a female online I would neither put male as my gender nor my real name on most profiles. And I don't even want to think how you came to that conclusion. So what is your point?

Astro:

Actually, the reason why a lot of girls wear sexy costumes is because they like wearing sexy costumes. A person capable of self-reflection and not wanting to attract a certain type of attention would think "hhmm it appears my enormous breasts are about to explode out of my costume" or "maybe I'll cosplay a different more reasonable-looking character." Women aren't idiots and there are plenty of solid female characters despite what gaming media would have you believe.

Q.E.D

I never said women are dressing up just for me, in fact I elaborated on this very concept. Women dressing up like this are capturing male attention in general, not just my attention. Also, the reason why girls go for this demographic is because it's easy, lucrative and non-threatening. Why the hell wouldn't women seeking this kind of attention target this culture? And I explicitly stated multiple times that it's within anyone's rights if they want to dress up in a couple of bits of masking tape at a gaming convention, I've just said a person doing this is worthy of contempt.

So girls arnt allowed to cosplay any game character who happens to wear clothing, designed by dudes, that appears slutty without being an attention whore. There is NO way they can do one without the other. At all. So that girl has large boobs. I dont think we can change that, the moxxi girl btw, so what can she do? Is she forbidden from cosplay? Must she adhere to ONLY cosplaying women with the correct amount of clothing? She has the same body type as moxxi. Maybe she LIKES moxxi? Maybe she likes borderlands? I can play ANY dude i want in gaming. Any at all. Without judgement if my body type is the same as the dude im playing. Spartan or otherwise. But women just cannot cosplay a large section of it because the characters were designed too raunchy and that makes them forbidden. Stop being so gorram judgmental of people. Stop assuming that just because someone does X their reasoning MUST be Y. Unless you talk to a person you have no right to guess what their motivation may be.

So a woman learns about a character and forks over a lot of money for an accurate cosplay and THEN attends a LONG event which is also expensive JUST for "General male attention" while weathering the storm of judgement from people like you for daring to do so. Sorry no im not buying that this happens in anything but a minority if at all. Basically no one goes to this level of fakery.

Here is a fake nerd girl as i imagine one to be:

"I love games, RPGS are my favourite!"

"Oh me too!"

"Oh what ones do you like?"

"Erm...."

SO its a casual conversation where someone fakes knowledge of a subject to try and be accepted by the other person. That person isnt a "Fake nerd girl". They are a liar. There doesnt need to be a name for it. It happens in ALL hobbies by anyone who wants to fake something to get accepted. You cannot tell who these people are by looks. Ever. Not even slightly. Its a certain type of person who does this and it doesnt restrict itself to "Nerds" or "Girls" or anything. Its just liars. A simple title that needs nothing added to it.

Someone at a con who took significant time and effort to appear like a character as well as attend an ALL DAY event about gaming is NOT someone i will ever assume is there JUST or primarily for attention unless i speak to them and they, personally, tell me that its the reason they turned up. Im alright with judging someone for their actions. Im not ok assuming i know anything about a person by looking at them, especially when i narrow that focus only to only women. Im pretty heavily against slut shaming anyway. If a woman wants to look sexy thats not always for you OR men generally. If it offends you that people like looking nice because you assume its to "Manipulate the poor liddle mensies" try thinking that its for THEMSELVES rather than you.

And also how "Into" a character does a woman have to be before we accept that shes doing it because she likes the character rather than BECAUSE they have a slutty outfit? Ive wanted to cosplay characters i dont know THAT much about just because i look like them (Light Yagami even though i never finished deathnote to the end). Some characters i love so much id cosplay even if it was a "Slutty outfit" like Scott Pilgrim so power to people who love a character enough to not give a shit. I think fake nerd girls are a tiny minority. These are people who intentionally lie when its easy in casual conversation to appear knowledgeable. Whats far more common is people with varying levels of interest in games.

Speksi:

You've made it perfectly clear that girls don't want attention for being girls. You know what a good way to avoid the attention is? Not bringing it up.

If I were to attend a cooking class, with presumably 98% of people there being female, I would not shout YES LOOK AT ME I'M A MAN when I walk through the door or use a correct amount of salt. If I did, complaining about being singled out would be sort of silly, no?

I really don't wanted to bring it up but... You know what helps to remind people that the status quo has changed? Showing off what makes you different from them *small hints towards Gay Parades*.

Because your gender has nothing to do with gaming, does it? You can post your gender on your profile and call yourself L33T_GIRL_GAMER_69 if you want, but attention whoring calls for two kinds of attention: Positive and negative. If you can't handle the negative attention, you shouldn't attract it. If you're in a wheelchair and decide to bring it up every time you join a server or talk with someone, somebody's going to call you names because of it. People insult other people on internet, about basically anything they can. If you're a woman, you stand out, and somebody is going to call you names. That's just how internet works missy, and if you don't like it then maybe you should find yourself another hobby.

Maybe pole dancing? That also gets you the attention you so obviously need to survive.

So you imply that it is okay to attack women online?... Yeah. I just stop now.

Women in gaming don't ruin gaming. GAM3R_GURLZZ ruin gaming, not just for me but also for the women who play games for the sake of playing, not for the sake of attention.

At first I'd like to see that the number of those 'gurl gamers' is actually relevant enough. Above 5% and above is a nice bar, one set by the gouvernment in my country for partys to get a seat in the congress.

Until then it is only about females. There are just so many websites (fatuglyorslutty.com for example) that shows that in some cases it is even enough to have a female avatar (as in, the female player model). From this I can derive that the discussion is mostly about women, not gamer girls or however you want to call them.

TheKasp:
I am a MLP fan.

Well that just says it all, doesn't it? No wonder I can't get through to you with logic. I bet you also go to reddit and post LE EPIC MEME FACES xDD

No, it says nothing. Some people with whom I already clashed in this forum may remember that I despise memes in any context - it just takes the respect out of a discussion. And another thing I never wrote: I never visited reddit. And don't plant to.

I also fail to see what this has to do with the topic at hand.

You're trying to say women play for the sake of playing. That women want to be treated equally, and not be talked to as if they were women at all. Yet, you think it's not stupid at all that women feel the need to draw EXTRA ATTENTION to the fact that they are women? That is my point. It sounds unbelievably stupid to me, but maybe you have to have intellect low enough to be able to enjoy My Little Pony to understand the logic.

No, I don't think it is stupid. As well as I don't think that it is a problem if a group of people who are attacked for no reason whenever they appear at some places (in this case: women who use voice in gaming - game at all) try and just show off that they are women.

What I don't understand are two things: How you can be so enraged about something so little and uninteresting as people using female avatars / nicknames / profile pictures and stating more in their profile than you do.
And why do you now have to rely to insults to win a discussion about a topic where you are clearly on the wrong side.

You have clearly a problem with women in gaming. You may call me out on taking the quotes out of context, and I also do but:

"If you're a woman, you stand out, and somebody is going to call you names. That's just how internet works missy, and if you don't like it then maybe you should find yourself another hobby."

From now on I'll ignore you. Why? Well, because you seem to think that you are clever by insulting me about something completely unrelated. Bad move that rendered all your credibilty useless...

Speksi:
It sounds unbelievably stupid to me, but maybe you have to have intellect low enough to be able to enjoy My Little Pony to understand the logic.

What the fuck has My Little Pony got to do with anything in this entire thread??

Dude, that's not an argument. That's not even close to an argument.

I blame Big Bang Theory.

It's the minstrel show of nerds.

Speksi:

TheKasp:
I am a MLP fan.

Well that just says it all, doesn't it? No wonder I can't get through to you with logic. I bet you also go to reddit and post LE EPIC MEME FACES xDD

TheKasp:
And if I'd wanted to be recognized as a female online I would neither put male as my gender nor my real name on most profiles. And I don't even want to think how you came to that conclusion. So what is your point?

You're trying to say women play for the sake of playing. That women want to be treated equally, and not be talked to as if they were women at all. Yet, you think it's not stupid at all that women feel the need to draw EXTRA ATTENTION to the fact that they are women? That is my point. It sounds unbelievably stupid to me, but maybe you have to have intellect low enough to be able to enjoy My Little Pony to understand the logic.

So instead, women should be ashamed of their gender and try their very damndest to purge all hint of femininity from their online interactions?

You're pretty weird, bro. Also, judgemental.
And as a watcher of the Pony scourge, I'd like to point out that I barely know what Reddit is, and despise 'le' anything.

Speksi:
What you are supposed to see is "PAY ATTENTION TO MEEE!". Gaming is a male dominated culture, so when a guy references to himself as a "he", it's not seeking attention, it's just.. Well, everyone already assumed it, so who cares. When a girl does it, it's more along the lines of "LOOK! LOOK! I'M A GIRL, NOT A GUY AS YOU EXPECTED! BUT PLEASE DON'T TALK ABOUT IT!". And no, profiles like that are not the result of being harrassed, it's attention whoring at it's finest.

I don't know what it is you've been doing in the internet for 14 years, but what you should probably have picked up along the way is if you don't want to be called out on something you don't go "LOOK AT THIS THING I DON'T WANT ANYONE TO LOOK AT, AND PLEASE DON'T TALK ABOUT IT!".

Hi! Been following this thread for a while without responding, but found this really interesting. You've had a lot of quotes on this post I'm sure, and I'm not trying to single you out to take to task on this issue, but your view is so different to mine that I'd be intrigued to know how you perceive my behaviour online.

You seem to imply that women shouldn't put anything gender related on profiles etc. because they don't want to be 'called out' for being women, and that's not the case. We just don't want to be harassed, ridiculed and insulted because of it. You can call me out for being a woman all day long - it's neither flattering nor offensive; it's simply a statement of fact. But when people start their screams of 'Get back in the kitchen' and calling you a fat/ugly/lesbian/slut/sex-starved attention whore for simply using a female pronoun in the 'about you' section, then I have a problem.

I use a female avatar, pick a female-skewing username and happily refer to myself as a woman because I'm a woman. To go out of my way to cover that up would not only be against my nature but would also be absurd. I'm not part of an ashamed minority.

I don't throw my femaleness in people's faces. I also don't hide it. Exactly as almost all male gamers/internet users do.

Would you say that I'm 'attention whoring'?

Hollyday:
snip

I was going to add something to the discussion but this pretty much covers it. Why exactly should we be ashamed of being female?

Most of my usernames could be taken as 'feminine' and I tend to err towards the colour pink and female characters. If we hide who we are we tend to just get told 'No women game that's why the devs don't care' when we say we would like female marines in AVP or something.

The fact is we don't do it for your attention we just name ourselves what WE like and pick characters that WE like. Stop being so self important.

Is it so hard to understand that people don't like phonies?

This topic has very little to do with either women or games. If a man claims, emphatically, that he's into figure skating and walks around with skates all the time but then falls flat on his ass as soon as he's put on ice then I'll laugh at him. I'll point and jeer too, most likely.

So why shouldn't I with "girl gamers"?

What possesses people to fake it that hard? Are their lives so dull and uninteresting, have they so few genuine interests that they have to lie about them just to get accepted? That doesn't sound healthy at all and you're doing yourself a disservice and you're doing your intended "audience" a disservice too. Eventually you'll stretch yourself so thin with the lies that you can't keep them up. And when your 'audience' finds out, they'll feel betrayed...

And factor the sheer moneygrubbing factor into that story and you've got yourself a lovely picture.

Should you give anyone a hard time for wearing a pikachu dress for fun, when they don't know what a magikarp is? No. Should you give them a hard time for having a portal desktop picture when they don't know who Valve is? No.

Should you give them a hard time when they've just exclaimed how much they love gaming, how much of a gamer they are, how awesome games are and basically been droning on for 30 long contentless minutes while their experience with games comes down to Angry Birds? In my opinion? Yes.

We're human beings. As human beings, we don't like being lied to and we don't like being manipulated. That really isn't such an outlandish thing to frown upon.

PH3NOmenon:
Is it so hard to understand that people don't like phonies?

This topic has very little to do with either women or games. If a man claims, emphatically, that he's into figure skating and walks around with skates all the time but then falls flat on his ass as soon as he's put on ice then I'll laugh at him. I'll point and jeer too, most likely.

So why shouldn't I with "girl gamers"?

What possesses people to fake it that hard? Are their lives so dull and uninteresting, have they so few genuine interests that they have to lie about them just to get accepted? That doesn't sound healthy at all and you're doing yourself a disservice and you're doing your intended "audience" a disservice too. Eventually you'll stretch yourself so thin with the lies that you can't keep them up. And when your 'audience' finds out, they'll feel betrayed...

And factor the sheer moneygrubbing factor into that story and you've got yourself a lovely picture.

Should you give anyone a hard time for wearing a pikachu dress for fun, when they don't know what a magikarp is? No. Should you give them a hard time for having a portal desktop picture when they don't know who Valve is? No.

Should you give them a hard time when they've just exclaimed how much they love gaming, how much of a gamer they are, how awesome games are and basically been droning on for 30 long contentless minutes while their experience with games comes down to Angry Birds? In my opinion? Yes.

We're human beings. As human beings, we don't like being lied to and we don't like being manipulated. That really isn't such an outlandish thing to frown upon.

Quite simple: You have failed to find any evidence that they are 'faking' an interest in games whatsoever, other than your presupposition that an attractive girl cannot possibly be interested in videogames and deserves to be shamed by you in order to feel better about yourself. Nor have you provided any evidence that such a strawman (or strawwoman, I suppose) even exists, or provide a reason for why playing Angry Birds exclusively is somehow less of a qualifier for liking video games than someone who only plays, say, World of Warcraft.

Note that I said "interest". A person can be interested in Star Trek without having seen all 73 episodes of the original series. Someone can like the Lord of the Rings without having read every single thesis J.J.R. Tolkein has ever written. And someone dressed up as Pikachu can still be interested in Pokemon even if they can't name all 649 of them from memory.

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