Jimquisition: Fake Nerd Girls

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TheKasp:
Yeah, sex does not matter? Then why do people keep attacking female regulars on the TF2 server I visit? How do they know they are female? Well, they talk. And that is literally enough to tick people like you off, assume they are 'gamur gurlz' and giving them shit.

Then you are on shitty servers. If only there were some way in which said players could mute annoying people on TF2, or maybe find a different server to be on: Oh wait, there is.

Some servers just have wankers on them. Some of those wankers happen to be sexist, others racist, others just wont stop talking about MLP, others just hate essentially everyone. So swap servers, its not like it takes any level of actual skill.

As i've said before & apparently need to keep on saying "there are wankers on both sides of the gender divide." However trying to take the action of a few wankers, to extend it out to an entire gender is just a gross over generalisation. An female wankers on servers are just as prevelent as male wankers. Heck they are just as prevelent in other areas of interest in the real world too: It is to be expected.

TheKasp:
In my life of 24 years, at least 15 of those as a gamer, I have never been even once geek-checked.

Hahahahahaha. I'm sorry, that probably seemed mean, but its almost as funny as when you hear novice horse riders tell professionals how good they think they are because "i've never fallen off a horse." If you haven't fallen off the horse, then its only because you haven't been on the horse long enough to be bucked.

Same goes with being Geek Checked. Chances are at some point you've been geek checked, if you think you haven't.
1. You are not really a geek & are spinning a story about your geekdom
2. You have been geek checked, but due to not being a self imposed victim & being secure enough in your geekdom, you just didn't notice that thats what was happening.
3. You have one of those non social aspects of geekdom, like solo play PC games & never speak to another human being about them.

Yopaz:

WOPR:

Yopaz:
I rarely agree this much with him. Seriously, why would anyone get upset over a person being so desperate for your attention that she pretends to like what you do just to get attention? It seems like a strange thing to get upset over, but I don't know.

I'm sure people have replied but let me throw my 2 cents in. I don't get "angry" per-say, I just get really annoyed with them.

As for the "fake nerd girls" that actually do bug me, I don't "hate" them, they're just annoying... It's like shoving a republican in a room full of democrats, almost every person in there will see this guy and think "Ugh he has no idea what he's talking about and we really wish he would just shut up and leave". At least that's what the fake nerd girls here are like...

Terrible analogy there, that's an example of fundamental disagreement. A better example would be to put someone who's never studied any science besides what he learned in high school while thinking he understand it in a room of scientists. I have had several discussions trying to explain evolution to someone who's misunderstood the basic concepts of it and refusing to believe that he is wrong.

Now that wasn't the topic on hand so let's get back on track. I have never seen Nintendo commercials because it's illegal to run advertisement directed towards kids here (which means almost no game commercials at all) so I wont comment on that. For the rest of it though I agree. It's annoying and there's no way around it. I just don't see a reason to hate it and to get upset over it. They want to think of themselves as nerds, OK I don't see a problem with that. They want to discuss something they wouldn't know existed if it wasn't for The Big Bang Theory? OK, now we're talking annoying.

No matter how hard I try, I can't bring myself to disagree with your statement. They are annoying and that's final. The problem though is those who feel so much pride in being a nerd that they force anyone who calls themselves a gamer or a nerd to prove themselves like it's a protected title. This is the path towards becoming a misogynist.

Now you're right that you're not the first one to quote me, but you are the first one who isn't a misogynist who uses every negative stereotype about both nerds and girls so I feel refreshed by your post. Thank you for being reasonable.

Yeah sorry, those were really terrible anologies, I was half asleep and really hungry at the time so I don't doubt it haha.

Back on track though... The nintendo commercials generally go something like this


or this

yeah, and WE'RE the ones pushing gaming stereotypes and trying to keep it a "boys only" club... *grumbles*

But yes, it's just really annoying... Personally, I do have standards to what is and is not a gamer, but they're really low... If all you do is play Sims/Farmville you're not a gamer, in the same way someone who can only play Hot Crossed Buns and Marry had a little lamb isn't a musician; and if you're dressed in costume... at least know who you are... The only time I have ever been PO'ed at a cosplayer was on halloween at high school my Jr. Year, I don't care how attractive you are, you're not "Green Mario" you're "Luigi"! It even says on the hat!

And thank you too for being reasonable, I'm used to getting flack for everything haha.

Vault101:

Fluoxetine:
For the 3 girls who claim to be gamers.

When did you beat Dark Souls?

Don't answer. You didn't.

so I'm not a gamer?

and thats your benchmark? what if say...I wasnt interested in darksouls?

how many guys didn't beat dark souls? answer me that, being a gamer has fuck all to do with whats in between your legs

no, I didn't beat dark souls, I played it for a while to check it out, while it was hard mabye I could have if I had the dedication and time, but I didn't..I moved on

but you know what? I never claimed to be GOOD at games, I'd say I'm decent and games thease days are generally very easy anyway, so apologies if I don't fit your stupid criteria

For what its worth. Guy gamer/nerd/geek etc right here. Never touched Demon Souls or Dark Souls. Don't have the interest.

All this thread has succeeded in is making me hate nerds and nerd culture even more than I usually do. For such a "maligned" group ofpeople, some of you sure seem to have an unusual interest in judging others. I'd love to know why one's femininity is something so bad that it must be hidden (up to women simply using voice chat). If I meet someome who just newly into something that I have enjoyed for a long time, or shows some interest but donesn't know a whole lot, I'm more than happy to share it, discuss it with them and help them learn, not degrade them. Whether it's games, art, modeling, Star Wars AU, etc.

People can be so nasty in their insecurity.

Chemical Alia:
All this thread has succeeded in is making me hate nerds and nerd culture even more than I usually do.

Really? Because all your comment did was make me hate commentors with premium membership more then i already did... So yeah, looks like the hatered is mutual.

WOPR:
Back on track though... The nintendo commercials generally go something like this


or this

yeah, and WE'RE the ones pushing gaming stereotypes and trying to keep it a "boys only" club... *grumbles*

Yeah these commercials actually perfectly highlight the thing i hate with trendies. No its true you are not gamers, but by the extension of the same logic you are also not an artist or a fashion stylist, any more then me playing DC Universe Online makes me a Super Hero.

Please stop with this nonsense.

matthew_lane:

Chemical Alia:
All this thread has succeeded in is making me hate nerds and nerd culture even more than I usually do.

Really? Because all your comment did was make me hate douchebags with premium membership more then i already did... So yeah, looks like the hatered is mutual.

The red name just showed up one day, wasn't something I asked for. Also not sure what that has to with anything I said or the topic itself. But yeah, all this talk of "fact checking" people not suspected of being real nerds and real gamers, and looking down on others who may not match your level of geekiness doesn't sit right with me. Though, maybe those 15-year-old girls really are harming me somehow and I really should care about what they take a passing interest in, If you have any compelling reasons to warn me about, I'm all ears. This could be really important!

Chemical Alia:
Though, maybe those 15-year-old girls really are harming me somehow and I really should care about what they take a passing interest in, If you have any compelling reasons to warn me about, I'm all ears. This could be really important!

Dude, please take note, because frankly people are getting sick of explaining this. No one is geek checking 15 year old girls on the basis of gender, they are geek checking people who say they are geeks.

An with good reason. Lets say you and i are hypothetically talking about higher order mathematics, something we are both experts in & some random person comes up & says "hi, i totally know all about like maths & stuff, can i join in?"

If that person cannot tell me what a happy prime number is, then no they can't join our conversation, on the basis that nothing we say is going to be on there level. We've now got one of three choices.
1. Refuse this person access to our conversation, after checking there hypothetical credentials.
2. Let them in & talk about something else, something at a level this person can understand.
3. Keep on with our conversation, constantly being stopped by the third party to answer basic questions like "whats that number that comes after the number 8 again?"

The geek checking is done to assess the basic requirements for our conversation. Even more so, if this conversation is happening at a convention on higher order mathematics & the person who asked to enter our conversation shows up wearing a bikini & calling her self "Happy Prime Numbers."

Its not done out of malice, its done out of convenience for our conversation. That third party may really have an interest in higher order mathematics (while lacking any knowledge on the topic), that doesn't mean either you or i have some sort of obligation to teach this person in our time, or even to stop our conversation on the basis that this other person can't keep up.

Thats not elitist, its just not pandering to people who actually have no real interest or knowledge of what we are talking about. This is made even more true at a location like a convention. We geeks specifically go to higher order mathematics conventions to discus higher order mathematics, to listen to lectures on higher order mathematics & to have lively debates in the hotel bar with other people with an interest in higher order mathermatics.

Swap out higher order mathematics for prefered geeky time-sink & you've got the current situation.

WOPR:

Yeah sorry, those were really terrible anologies, I was half asleep and really hungry at the time so I don't doubt it haha.

Back on track though... The nintendo commercials generally go something like this


yeah, and WE'RE the ones pushing gaming stereotypes and trying to keep it a "boys only" club... *grumbles*

But yes, it's just really annoying... Personally, I do have standards to what is and is not a gamer, but they're really low... If all you do is play Sims/Farmville you're not a gamer, in the same way someone who can only play Hot Crossed Buns and Marry had a little lamb isn't a musician; and if you're dressed in costume... at least know who you are... The only time I have ever been PO'ed at a cosplayer was on halloween at high school my Jr. Year, I don't care how attractive you are, you're not "Green Mario" you're "Luigi"! It even says on the hat!

And thank you too for being reasonable, I'm used to getting flack for everything haha.

Now those were truly bad. It explains to me why people say Nintendo is losing touch with gamers if nothing else. Now taking a look at it and seeing how it could be improved in order to pass Nintendo off as a game company that's branching out it could change the last sentence to "I'm not just a gamer, I'm also a [blank]". Still the entire thing was horrible even without that part so it should cease to exist.

Also if your only game is Farmville then I wouldn't call them a gamer either, it's a game that makes farming less fun than reality. The Sims require some thought and planning, so I'll let that one slide. Also green Mario? That's weak. I would get annoyed at that too.

Now to find a way to drown out those commercials from my brain.

matthew_lane:

Really? Because all your comment did was make me hate commentors with premium membership more then i already did... So yeah, looks like the hatered is mutual.

because having premium membership is relevant to any of this....how? might have to explain that one

or mabye I should just ignore what you say since you don't have premium membership and therefore arent a "real forum poster" /sarcasm

matthew_lane:

Then you are on shitty servers. If only there were some way in which said players could mute annoying people on TF2, or maybe find a different server to be on: Oh wait, there is.

Some servers just have wankers on them. Some of those wankers happen to be sexist, others racist, others just wont stop talking about MLP, others just hate essentially everyone. So swap servers, its not like it takes any level of actual skill.

As i've said before & apparently need to keep on saying "there are wankers on both sides of the gender divide." However trying to take the action of a few wankers, to extend it out to an entire gender is just a gross over generalisation. An female wankers on servers are just as prevelent as male wankers. Heck they are just as prevelent in other areas of interest in the real world too: It is to be expected.

Well, since those asshats are banned rather quick (Sorry but I won't mute them - it just empowers those assholes to continue) I would assume my regular servers are rather nice.

But you missed the point of the example. The girls in question don't do what people here assume they do, they are not those 'fake geek girls', they just communicate in the community of that particular server. And yet, every now and then some new guy thins it is a-okay to attack them for being female. Extend that to places where you can't regulate shit - about any console game or shoddy port without dedicated server - and you get the community that we have now, one that hates the sole presence of women.

And just for your information: I did not want to imply that every man engages in the behaviour I grew sick of years ago - when my balls dropped. But the chance that one or two of such asshats exist in a lobby of 12 people is big enough to derive that the amount of such asshats are quite bigger than the amount of so-called 'gurl gamers', fake geek girls, and since a good number of the assholes justify their behaviour with their hate for those it creates a nonpleasant environment to play in if you don't want to hide your gender and participate in team communication.

Hahahahahaha. I'm sorry, that probably seemed mean, but its almost as funny as when you hear novice horse riders tell professionals how good they think they are because "i've never fallen off a horse." If you haven't fallen off the horse, then its only because you haven't been on the horse long enough to be bucked.

Same goes with being Geek Checked. Chances are at some point you've been geek checked, if you think you haven't.
1. You are not really a geek & are spinning a story about your geekdom
2. You have been geek checked, but due to not being a self imposed victim & being secure enough in your geekdom, you just didn't notice that thats what was happening.
3. You have one of those non social aspects of geekdom, like solo play PC games & never speak to another human being about them.

Or all the geek guys I've ever met just did not feel the need to geek check someone.

1: I play P&P RPGs, Magic, PC games, Warhammer Fantasy. I collect Marvel and DC comics (though I started that rather recently). I think I do more then enough geeky things outside of the web that I qualify as one - especially since today it is enough to be just a gamer to qualify as such). I also collect exploitation movies and like to brag about it.

2: Again: I remember stuff. I can remember how I formed sentences 15 years ago, I can remember what people said to me. I would remember if someone would've tried to check my geek knowledge.

3: Well, my last date took up P&P gaming just because she got intrigued about after I told her things about it. I also ask random people in bars or clubs (well, people with whom I start a dialogue) if they by any chance play magic. And gaming per se is just one of my biggest conversation starters together with my love for exploitation movies. I visit conventions and live in a city where about half the population are students, I myself study IT.

So, how many years and how much exposure to other geeks do I need to have to get this 'geek-check'?

I personally don't care if any girls want to be a part of the (whatever) culture we have, I love being around the opposite sex. But I would appreciate it if they are sincere. I don't think geek checking is something that should be done to people because you'll just come off as a rude twit. People don't like fake people anywhere, why would they be tolerated here anymore than any place else?

Of my own personal experience, I had a small group of friends that I played SWTOR with (yea i know..) and a few of them played warhammer/D&D and some played magic, so we'd all sometimes sit in the college lounge or the hallway between classes and shoot the shit about whatever nerdy thing we were doing. Some of us had friends outside that circle, some did not. Of the ones that did (myself included) had some pretty attractive female friends that would always mock us for talking about whatever nerdy thing was happening that day. Generally it didn't bother me or my other friend, but to some of them it did, and they even approached me about it personally saying they didn't want attention drawn to themselves to get made fun of and mocked. So I relented and shut up when they wanted me to. But a few times some of the girls (they happened to be the more attractive ones..so make of that what you will) actually said some really nasty things and even told us to take our (obviously beneath them) conversation somewhere else, this really rubbed me the wrong way so I put them in their place. This has been common in my experience with most females regarding gaming/nerd culture. Many dabble with CoD and Mario. Angry birds, mobile games, and classic arcade Nintendo stuff. But that is as far as they go. I've recently been in a server VOIP for my Guild Wars 2 realm for its open world PvP, and there are lots of different personalities there. It is predominantly guys, but there quite a few girls there too. But most of the girls don't seem like they are there to play serious PvP or PVE. Many are there being chatterboxes and trying to draw attention to themselves, the worst of which are drama firestarters that won't get muted or banned because some have sexy voices and in a channel full of 60 dudes and 2 or 3 girls, some guys are gonna want to hear that. If I bear any animosity toward women or fellow male gamers it is this, play the game for what it is and enjoy it. Don't use it as a tool or vehicle to achieve a different end like starting drama. Being a nerd/geek is very much steeped in enjoying something for the sake of itself and nothing else, it comes from deep immersion and giving yourself to a certain aspect of the culture and enjoying the hell out of it. It is much the same as sports in this way for sports nerds.

Not all women are drama seekers out to get attention, and I would be foolish to label them as such. Like anything else it is the few that spoil it for the many, and by reading this thread it seems there are many female gamers out there that would be an absolute JOY to play with. Anyone who wants to experience this wonderful aspect of technological culture I welcome you with open arms. Just please enjoy it for what it is, don't come here expecting to use it for some other means, especially if it is destructive.

PS. Most peoples ability/desire to delve so deeply into a culture might not be the same as your own, that said our gamer culture is still male dominated. That is why finding a woman like in this video should be considered a mythic/legendary accomplishment :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxx6BupgRmI

TheKasp:
Well, since those asshats are banned rather quick (Sorry but I won't mute them - it just empowers those assholes to continue)

No it really doesn't. See, this is one of the main issues. There seems to be this pretense that you want fair play, but when it comes right down to it, you really want the ability to kick out anyone who disagrees with you. The mute function was built exactly to shut up people talking shit, but people don't use it, because they'd rather act self righteous, and self important. Just mute the wankers & continue playing.

TheKasp:
The girls in question don't do what people here assume they do,

An on to the second issue. Someone calling out women who do A, is not an attack on women. Its people pointing out that women that do do a, or in fact doing A.

TheKasp:
And yet, every now and then some new guy thins it is a-okay to attack them for being female.

But it is okay for him to attack you for being female on a TF2 server. Its also okay for you to mute him & for him to get kicked for being an arse. an lets be honest the same wanker who was attacking you for being female 2 seconds from now is going to be calling the person who just killed him gay, a pedophile, an pretty much any other nasty thing he can think of to get a rise out of you.

As i've said no less then 10 times now: There are wankers on both sides of gender divide.

TheKasp:
Extend that to places where you can't regulate shit - about any console game or shoddy port without dedicated server - and you get the community that we have now, one that hates the sole presence of women.

No they don't. i'm sorry, but you are just tlaking shit now. Particular properties attract wankers its true, but it is far from being common & far from being ubiquitos with anything you've just listed.

Ishal:
I've recently been in a server VOIP for my Guild Wars 2 realm for its open world PvP, and there are lots of different personalities there. It is predominantly guys, but there quite a few girls there too. But most of the girls don't seem like they are there to play serious PvP or PVE. Many are there being chatterboxes and trying to draw attention to themselves, the worst of which are drama firestarters that won't get muted or banned because some have sexy voices and in a channel full of 60 dudes and 2 or 3 girls, some guys are gonna want to hear that. If I bear any animosity toward women or fellow male gamers it is this, play the game for what it is and enjoy it. Don't use it as a tool or vehicle to achieve a different end like starting drama.

Unfortunately that kind of behaviour is all to common: not saying its the predominate theme, but its certainly not rare by any stretch of the imagination. When i first moved to the city i joined a D&D club, with about 40 players who would game on a sunday. We had quite a few female players & GM's, but then we had a group of 3 girls join & they essentially joined just to cause interpersonal drama.

So i know what you mean about particular types of women, who use geeky things as an engine for destruction. Is the same paradigm that convinces some women to cosplay in costumes so little had they walked the streets in them, they would have been arrested for indecent exposure.

Strangely these kinds of women are the sorts women will deny exist, but when they start to impact them they'll become all catty & tear each others eyes out. Then as soon as the cat fighting ends (usually because the new female has been kicked out), will immediately go back to pretending that that kind of woman just doesn't exist... Oh except for that one bitch that got was coming to her *insert z snap here* She was obviously a unique individual & no other woman would ever act like her.

It really is strange seeing how same group preference can warp our perception of others.

ShadowKirby:
If the last 19 pages are what gaming "culture" is about, horrible elitism, mistrust, crass barely hidden misogyny, then maybe it's not worth saving at all from whatever imaginary threat it is facing. Let's burn it to the ground and salt the earth. Let people enjoy games like they enjoy movies or books. Let's stop pretending like we know what a REAL gamer or a REAL geek is. It's a pathetic attempt to reduce people around you and yourself to your hobbies.

I am marginally surprised it has gone this many pages.

Kind of seems like an open and shut case.

Anywho, color me surprised. Got on to see if I missed any videos and saw this as latest activity and was like "Really? No way..."

Odd stuff, odd stuff indeed.

matthew_lane:

The geek checking is done to assess the basic requirements for our conversation. Even more so, if this conversation is happening at a convention on higher order mathematics & the person who asked to enter our conversation shows up wearing a bikini & calling her self "Happy Prime Numbers."

I'm delighted to have someone to talk about my favorite things with, if they don't actually like what I like they get to suffer through my rants about how much I like it, if they do like it they'll enjoy the conversation, and if they don't like it but enjoy my prose they'll end up becoming a real fan.

Shit if someone came up to me in a bikini and wanted to talk about Prime numbers I'd be on board.

Well...after I got the OK from my better, otherwise I might take a boot to my prime number.

theultimateend:

matthew_lane:

The geek checking is done to assess the basic requirements for our conversation.

Of course they do. No one spends minimum $50 to go to a convention & NOT do geeky convention things. I've got an entire year of non geeky things & a few scant weekends of pure geeky joy & you want me to spend that time not doing geeky things. In that case, i know you are about to go away on your annual holdiay, but heres my taxes, you can do them instead.

theultimateend:
I'm delighted to have someone to talk about my favorite things with

But you aren't talking with someone, you are talking "AT" someone. I mean if all you want to do is hear your own voice, you could just sit at home & talk to a brick wall... it'll comprehend almost as much of what you are saying.

matthew_lane:

No it really doesn't. See, this is one of the main issues. There seems to be this pretense that you want fair play, but when it comes right down to it, you really want the ability to kick out anyone who disagrees with you. The mute function was built exactly to shut up people talking shit, but people don't use it, because they'd rather act self righteous, and self important. Just mute the wankers & continue playing.

Well, the regulation of the private environment that are dedicated servers is a normal thing. It has nothing to do with disagreing but more that people who I have to be muted to have a decent ingame experience are simply not welcome on the servers I regulate.

And no, I won't use the mute function just because I am told to tolerate that kind of behaviour.

Just so we are on the clear: I am not talking trash talk. If someone shouts challenges at me with some curses in between or questions my ability to play the game I just laugh about it and prove them wrong by action.

An on to the second issue. Someone calling out women who do A, is not an attack on women. Its people pointing out that women that do do a, or in fact doing A.

Well, it may be not you that I'd chose as an example but there are quite some posts in this thread from which it can be derived that their hatred is not against women that do A but women in general.

But it is okay for him to attack you for being female on a TF2 server. Its also okay for you to mute him & for him to get kicked for being an arse. an lets be honest the same wanker who was attacking you for being female 2 seconds from now is going to be calling the person who just killed him gay, a pedophile, an pretty much any other nasty thing he can think of to get a rise out of you.

Eh... No, it is not okay to do that. For all those examples we have simple rules: Don't behave like a dick or you'll get banned.
And no, I don't buy it that they are turning around and doing the same to guys. By far not all of them.
And even if: I could argue that there is a different intention in the hostility towards females and males in gaming. Since this thread tries to say it is still the status quo: Gaming was a male-dominated area. This has changed but many still try to hold their turf as if it was their only thing worth fighting for. Any chance to attack the 'intruder' is taken and is different in both context the insults are used as well the actual insults (I have never even once heard someone call another guy a pedophile...)

Well, could.

But before we now go on: I get the feeling that we would need hard evidence to reach a conclusion between us two. From here on it's going to be a circle where we repeat our points in a slightly different manner so I'll just throw a coockie at you and move on. Have a nice day.

BiscuitTrouser:

Astro:

Actually, the reason why a lot of girls wear sexy costumes is because they like wearing sexy costumes. A person capable of self-reflection and not wanting to attract a certain type of attention would think "hhmm it appears my enormous breasts are about to explode out of my costume" or "maybe I'll cosplay a different more reasonable-looking character." Women aren't idiots and there are plenty of solid female characters despite what gaming media would have you believe.

Q.E.D

I never said women are dressing up just for me, in fact I elaborated on this very concept. Women dressing up like this are capturing male attention in general, not just my attention. Also, the reason why girls go for this demographic is because it's easy, lucrative and non-threatening. Why the hell wouldn't women seeking this kind of attention target this culture? And I explicitly stated multiple times that it's within anyone's rights if they want to dress up in a couple of bits of masking tape at a gaming convention, I've just said a person doing this is worthy of contempt.

So girls arnt allowed to cosplay any game character who happens to wear clothing, designed by dudes, that appears slutty without being an attention whore. There is NO way they can do one without the other. At all. So that girl has large boobs. I dont think we can change that, the moxxi girl btw, so what can she do? Is she forbidden from cosplay? Must she adhere to ONLY cosplaying women with the correct amount of clothing? She has the same body type as moxxi. Maybe she LIKES moxxi? Maybe she likes borderlands? I can play ANY dude i want in gaming. Any at all. Without judgement if my body type is the same as the dude im playing. Spartan or otherwise. But women just cannot cosplay a large section of it because the characters were designed too raunchy and that makes them forbidden. Stop being so gorram judgmental of people. Stop assuming that just because someone does X their reasoning MUST be Y. Unless you talk to a person you have no right to guess what their motivation may be.

So a woman learns about a character and forks over a lot of money for an accurate cosplay and THEN attends a LONG event which is also expensive JUST for "General male attention" while weathering the storm of judgement from people like you for daring to do so. Sorry no im not buying that this happens in anything but a minority if at all. Basically no one goes to this level of fakery.

Here is a fake nerd girl as i imagine one to be:

"I love games, RPGS are my favourite!"

"Oh me too!"

"Oh what ones do you like?"

"Erm...."

SO its a casual conversation where someone fakes knowledge of a subject to try and be accepted by the other person. That person isnt a "Fake nerd girl". They are a liar. There doesnt need to be a name for it. It happens in ALL hobbies by anyone who wants to fake something to get accepted. You cannot tell who these people are by looks. Ever. Not even slightly. Its a certain type of person who does this and it doesnt restrict itself to "Nerds" or "Girls" or anything. Its just liars. A simple title that needs nothing added to it.

Someone at a con who took significant time and effort to appear like a character as well as attend an ALL DAY event about gaming is NOT someone i will ever assume is there JUST or primarily for attention unless i speak to them and they, personally, tell me that its the reason they turned up. Im alright with judging someone for their actions. Im not ok assuming i know anything about a person by looking at them, especially when i narrow that focus only to only women. Im pretty heavily against slut shaming anyway. If a woman wants to look sexy thats not always for you OR men generally. If it offends you that people like looking nice because you assume its to "Manipulate the poor liddle mensies" try thinking that its for THEMSELVES rather than you.

And also how "Into" a character does a woman have to be before we accept that shes doing it because she likes the character rather than BECAUSE they have a slutty outfit? Ive wanted to cosplay characters i dont know THAT much about just because i look like them (Light Yagami even though i never finished deathnote to the end). Some characters i love so much id cosplay even if it was a "Slutty outfit" like Scott Pilgrim so power to people who love a character enough to not give a shit. I think fake nerd girls are a tiny minority. These are people who intentionally lie when its easy in casual conversation to appear knowledgeable. Whats far more common is people with varying levels of interest in games.

You keep missing my point. It doesn't matter what you think about a certain character, it's contemptible to be intentionally overly sexually provocative at a gaming convention - even if you really like Mad Moxxi. A person who does this isn't just indulging a hobby, they're purposefully assuming a role that's guaranteed to have men giving them a lot of sexual attention. If it were a pornographic convention it would be fine, but the people at gaming conventions are there because they like videogames, not because they want to be manipulated into being enamored by someone who isn't contributing anything of worth. I should also mention that a person who's in a scantily clad costume whose intention isn't to draw attention to themselves isn't necessarily contemptible, but they are a dunce and oblivious to their own blatantly inappropriate behavior.

I don't care how you feel about the rest of my position, and I'm not particularly interested in convincing you that women dressing in absurdly sexualized costumes at a focal point for an interest that is predominantly enjoyed by dorky males aren't doing it for attention.

Technically people can do a lot of things which other people don't like without any repercussions, but following that up with 'that must mean it's appropriate and it's ideal that they're allowed to do whatever they want within the confines of the law' is weepy bullshit. I don't care that you want to cosplay Mad Moxxi and you happen to have huge breasts, it's disruptive and inconsiderate if you choose to do so.

matthew_lane:
No one is geek checking 15 year old girls on the basis of gender, they are geek checking people who say they are geeks.

An with good reason. Lets say you and i are hypothetically talking about higher order mathematics, something we are both experts in & some random person comes up & says "hi, i totally know all about like maths & stuff, can i join in?"

If that person cannot tell me what a happy prime number is, then no they can't join our conversation, on the basis that nothing we say is going to be on there level. We've now got one of three choices.
1. Refuse this person access to our conversation, after checking there hypothetical credentials.
2. Let them in & talk about something else, something at a level this person can understand.
3. Keep on with our conversation, constantly being stopped by the third party to answer basic questions like "whats that number that comes after the number 8 again?"

The geek checking is done to assess the basic requirements for our conversation. Even more so, if this conversation is happening at a convention on higher order mathematics & the person who asked to enter our conversation shows up wearing a bikini & calling her self "Happy Prime Numbers."

Its not done out of malice, its done out of convenience for our conversation. That third party may really have an interest in higher order mathematics (while lacking any knowledge on the topic), that doesn't mean either you or i have some sort of obligation to teach this person in our time, or even to stop our conversation on the basis that this other person can't keep up.

Thats not elitist, its just not pandering to people who actually have no real interest or knowledge of what we are talking about. This is made even more true at a location like a convention. We geeks specifically go to higher order mathematics conventions to discus higher order mathematics, to listen to lectures on higher order mathematics & to have lively debates in the hotel bar with other people with an interest in higher order mathermatics.

Swap out higher order mathematics for prefered geeky time-sink & you've got the current situation.

So, I assume you also want to geek-check every male con-goer, right? And exclude every male geek who isn't as knowledgeable on every aspect of geek culture as you insist every woman must be? Or has the possibility never crossed your mind that such people could exist?

Astro:
You keep missing my point. It doesn't matter what you think about a certain character, it's contemptible to be intentionally overly sexually provocative at a gaming convention - even if you really like Mad Moxxi. A person who does this isn't just indulging a hobby, they're purposefully assuming a role that's guaranteed to have men giving them a lot of sexual attention. If it were a pornographic convention it would be fine, but the people at gaming conventions are there because they like videogames, not because they want to be manipulated into being enamored by someone who isn't contributing anything of worth. I should also mention that a person who's in a scantily clad costume whose intention isn't to draw attention to themselves isn't necessarily contemptible, but they are a dunce and oblivious to their own blatantly inappropriate behavior.

I don't care how you feel about the rest of my position, and I'm not particularly interested in convincing you that women dressing in absurdly sexualized costumes at a focal point for an interest that is predominantly enjoyed by dorky males aren't doing it for attention.

Technically people can do a lot of things which other people don't like without any repercussions, but following that up with 'that must mean it's appropriate and it's ideal that they're allowed to do whatever they want within the confines of the law' is weepy bullshit. I don't care that you want to cosplay Mad Moxxi and you happen to have huge breasts, it's disruptive and inconsiderate if you choose to do so.

How is it contemptible? Merely because it is provocative? Did the woman in question ACTUALLY DO anything to warrant that description, or is it you enforcing your bias on her outfit?

How do you know she is not indulging in a hobby? She may be a fan of the cosplay character, and alternately she may be a hobby of going to conventions.

You are arguing from a position that you know her motives, her sexualization, her inappropriateness... did you actually go have a conversation with the woman? Was she actually a dunce with no clue about the character she was playing? Did she go out of her way to attract the attention of males only?

I suspect the answer is no, you didn't speak to the woman, because she would know about Moxie, she could tell you about Borderlands, and she just may shatter your well constructed delusions about her.

Oh, the horror, when I go to comic cons and sci-fi cons in the year 2012 there are attractive Batgirls and Supergirls, sexy women who fill out sexy Star Trek uniforms, Princess Leia's, and a dead-ringer for #6 in Battlestar, oh the HORROR the young people face in the circle of geeks these days!!

I went to a comic con in 1989 in Buffalo. There wasn't an interested female within 25 miles of that venue. There wasn't even a REAL nerd girl, let alone a throng of them, along with the "fake" ones.

An attractive girl spends a pay cheque on a costume, gets an all access pass to the event, spends an entire weekend dressed up to meet people while getting sneered, jeered, and leered at by a pack of ungrateful pricks. DOESN'T LEAVE because of those pricks, and she is still considered a "fake".

If I could trade Comic Con 1989 for 2012, I'd do it in a heartbeat, and so would a ton of older nerd and geeks. You (not the quoted person specifically, but this generation of teenage male nerds) have hot women with an interest in your interests at your conventions. At or nearing your sexual peak, and you are COMPLAINING???

I am starting to sounds like my dad on this one, but I do not understand this generation.

Sylocat:

matthew_lane:
No one is geek checking 15 year old girls....

*snip*

So, I assume you also want to geek-check every male con-goer, right? And exclude every male geek who isn't as knowledgeable on every aspect of geek culture as you insist every woman must be? Or has the possibility never crossed your mind that such people could exist?

I can't speak for Matthew, but no, I wouldn't geek check a guy OR a girl unless they came up and initiated the conversation with ME regarding the topic of gaming/sci-fi/comics/anything deemed nerdy by society.

Besides, I don't consider this geek checking, more like feeling out the level of knowledge and interest so that I can start a decent discussion without boring the other person to death; not to see the "geek street cred".

themind:

Astro:
You keep missing my point. It doesn't matter what you think about a certain character, it's contemptible to be intentionally overly sexually provocative at a gaming convention - even if you really like Mad Moxxi. A person who does this isn't just indulging a hobby, they're purposefully assuming a role that's guaranteed to have men giving them a lot of sexual attention. If it were a pornographic convention it would be fine, but the people at gaming conventions are there because they like videogames, not because they want to be manipulated into being enamored by someone who isn't contributing anything of worth. I should also mention that a person who's in a scantily clad costume whose intention isn't to draw attention to themselves isn't necessarily contemptible, but they are a dunce and oblivious to their own blatantly inappropriate behavior.

I don't care how you feel about the rest of my position, and I'm not particularly interested in convincing you that women dressing in absurdly sexualized costumes at a focal point for an interest that is predominantly enjoyed by dorky males aren't doing it for attention.

Technically people can do a lot of things which other people don't like without any repercussions, but following that up with 'that must mean it's appropriate and it's ideal that they're allowed to do whatever they want within the confines of the law' is weepy bullshit. I don't care that you want to cosplay Mad Moxxi and you happen to have huge breasts, it's disruptive and inconsiderate if you choose to do so.

How is it contemptible? Merely because it is provocative? Did the woman in question ACTUALLY DO anything to warrant that description, or is it you enforcing your bias on her outfit?

How do you know she is not indulging in a hobby? She may be a fan of the cosplay character, and alternately she may be a hobby of going to conventions.

You are arguing from a position that you know her motives, her sexualization, her inappropriateness... did you actually go have a conversation with the woman? Was she actually a dunce with no clue about the character she was playing? Did she go out of her way to attract the attention of males only?

I suspect the answer is no, you didn't speak to the woman, because she would know about Moxie, she could tell you about Borderlands, and she just may shatter your well constructed delusions about her.

Oh, the horror, when I go to comic cons and sci-fi cons in the year 2012 there are attractive Batgirls and Supergirls, sexy women who fill out sexy Star Trek uniforms, Princess Leia's, and a dead-ringer for #6 in Battlestar, oh the HORROR the young people face in the circle of geeks these days!!

I went to a comic con in 1989 in Buffalo. There wasn't an interested female within 25 miles of that venue. There wasn't even a REAL nerd girl, let alone a throng of them, along with the "fake" ones.

An attractive girl spends a pay cheque on a costume, gets an all access pass to the event, spends an entire weekend dressed up to meet people while getting sneered, jeered, and leered at by a pack of ungrateful pricks. DOESN'T LEAVE because of those pricks, and she is still considered a "fake".

If I could trade Comic Con 1989 for 2012, I'd do it in a heartbeat, and so would a ton of older nerd and geeks. You (not the quoted person specifically, but this generation of teenage male nerds) have hot women with an interest in your interests at your conventions. At or nearing your sexual peak, and you are COMPLAINING???

I am starting to sounds like my dad on this one, but I do not understand this generation.

Literally every argument you made was addressed in the post you quoted.

matthew_lane:

Chemical Alia:
Though, maybe those 15-year-old girls really are harming me somehow and I really should care about what they take a passing interest in, If you have any compelling reasons to warn me about, I'm all ears. This could be really important!

Dude, please take note, because frankly people are getting sick of explaining this. No one is geek checking 15 year old girls on the basis of gender, they are geek checking people who say they are geeks.

An with good reason. Lets say you and i are hypothetically talking about higher order mathematics, something we are both experts in & some random person comes up & says "hi, i totally know all about like maths & stuff, can i join in?"

If that person cannot tell me what a happy prime number is, then no they can't join our conversation, on the basis that nothing we say is going to be on there level. We've now got one of three choices.
1. Refuse this person access to our conversation, after checking there hypothetical credentials.
2. Let them in & talk about something else, something at a level this person can understand.
3. Keep on with our conversation, constantly being stopped by the third party to answer basic questions like "whats that number that comes after the number 8 again?"

The geek checking is done to assess the basic requirements for our conversation. Even more so, if this conversation is happening at a convention on higher order mathematics & the person who asked to enter our conversation shows up wearing a bikini & calling her self "Happy Prime Numbers."

Its not done out of malice, its done out of convenience for our conversation. That third party may really have an interest in higher order mathematics (while lacking any knowledge on the topic), that doesn't mean either you or i have some sort of obligation to teach this person in our time, or even to stop our conversation on the basis that this other person can't keep up.

Thats not elitist, its just not pandering to people who actually have no real interest or knowledge of what we are talking about. This is made even more true at a location like a convention. We geeks specifically go to higher order mathematics conventions to discus higher order mathematics, to listen to lectures on higher order mathematics & to have lively debates in the hotel bar with other people with an interest in higher order mathermatics.

Swap out higher order mathematics for preferred geeky time-sink & you've got the current situation.

....did you just compare "geek" culture with high order mathematics?

By the way, most people at scientific conventions do not quiz each other on what they know. Normally, most of them are pretty secure of their place in the world and has no need to test the knowledge of their fellow attendees. They are adults in highly advanced scientific fields, not third graders.

Nor are most such conventions closed to other attendees. Indeed, education and interest may vary from person to person, from undergrads with an interest in the subject to professors with a huge publication backlog, and they all manage to converse with each other both about the scientific topic at hand and other topics withou giving each other any kind of test or quiz.

I am with Chemical Alia, so called "nerd"-culture is becoming more and more repellent each year, and the "gate"-keepers defending it seems trapped in, at best, a high school "us vs. them" mentality. I hope the whole thing dies a painful death soon.

[/quote]

Ishal:
I personally don't care if any girls want to be a part of the (whatever) culture we have, I love being around the opposite sex. But I would appreciate it if they are sincere. I don't think geek checking is something that should be done to people because you'll just come off as a rude twit. People don't like fake people anywhere, why would they be tolerated here anymore than any place else?

Of my own personal experience, I had a small group of friends that I played SWTOR with (yea i know..) and a few of them played warhammer/D&D and some played magic, so we'd all sometimes sit in the college lounge or the hallway between classes and shoot the shit about whatever nerdy thing we were doing. Some of us had friends outside that circle, some did not. Of the ones that did (myself included) had some pretty attractive female friends that would always mock us for talking about whatever nerdy thing was happening that day. Generally it didn't bother me or my other friend, but to some of them it did, and they even approached me about it personally saying they didn't want attention drawn to themselves to get made fun of and mocked. So I relented and shut up when they wanted me to. But a few times some of the girls (they happened to be the more attractive ones..so make of that what you will) actually said some really nasty things and even told us to take our (obviously beneath them) conversation somewhere else, this really rubbed me the wrong way so I put them in their place. This has been common in my experience with most females regarding gaming/nerd culture. Many dabble with CoD and Mario. Angry birds, mobile games, and classic arcade Nintendo stuff. But that is as far as they go. I've recently been in a server VOIP for my Guild Wars 2 realm for its open world PvP, and there are lots of different personalities there. It is predominantly guys, but there quite a few girls there too. But most of the girls don't seem like they are there to play serious PvP or PVE. Many are there being chatterboxes and trying to draw attention to themselves, the worst of which are drama firestarters that won't get muted or banned because some have sexy voices and in a channel full of 60 dudes and 2 or 3 girls, some guys are gonna want to hear that. If I bear any animosity toward women or fellow male gamers it is this, play the game for what it is and enjoy it. Don't use it as a tool or vehicle to achieve a different end like starting drama. Being a nerd/geek is very much steeped in enjoying something for the sake of itself and nothing else, it comes from deep immersion and giving yourself to a certain aspect of the culture and enjoying the hell out of it. It is much the same as sports in this way for sports nerds.

Not all women are drama seekers out to get attention, and I would be foolish to label them as such. Like anything else it is the few that spoil it for the many, and by reading this thread it seems there are many female gamers out there that would be an absolute JOY to play with. Anyone who wants to experience this wonderful aspect of technological culture I welcome you with open arms. Just please enjoy it for what it is, don't come here expecting to use it for some other means, especially if it is destructive.

PS. Most peoples ability/desire to delve so deeply into a culture might not be the same as your own, that said our gamer culture is still male dominated. That is why finding a woman like in this video should be considered a mythic/legendary accomplishment :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxx6BupgRmI

Who are you, to decide what anyone can or cannot do with a game they have purchased? You have no authority, no credibility, nothing at all. If someone want to play Guild Wars mostly to socialize, they are more than welcome to. Just as people are allowed to roleplay in Guild Wars, or PVP, or PVE, withou people like you judging them or trying to drive them away because they do not fit into what you define as "the proper way". That is not for you to decide. So please, do not come here and claim it is.

And stop with the defining of what makes someone a geek or a nerd, or what it means to be a geek or nerd. That is not something you have any power to do, any of you, especially when you try to use it to force a demographic out of you little clubhouse.

Skyweir:
....did you just compare "geek" culture with high order mathematics?

By the way, most people at scientific conventions do not quiz each other on what they know. Normally, most of them are pretty secure of their place in the world and has no need to test the knowledge of their fellow attendees. They are adults in highly advanced scientific fields, not third graders.

Nor are most such conventions closed to other attendees. Indeed, education and interest may vary from person to person, from undergrads with an interest in the subject to professors with a huge publication backlog, and they all manage to converse with each other both about the scientific topic at hand and other topics withou giving each other any kind of test or quiz.

I am with Chemical Alia, so called "nerd"-culture is becoming more and more repellent each year, and the "gate"-keepers defending it seems trapped in, at best, a high school "us vs. them" mentality. I hope the whole thing dies a painful death soon.

This. Exactly. Stuff like this makes us look collectively like five year olds.

Ishal:
I personally don't care if any girls want to be a part of the (whatever) culture we have, I love being around the opposite sex. But I would appreciate it if they are sincere. I don't think geek checking is something that should be done to people because you'll just come off as a rude twit. People don't like fake people anywhere, why would they be tolerated here anymore than any place else?

Of my own personal experience, I had a small group of friends that I played SWTOR with (yea i know..) and a few of them played warhammer/D&D and some played magic, so we'd all sometimes sit in the college lounge or the hallway between classes and shoot the shit about whatever nerdy thing we were doing. Some of us had friends outside that circle, some did not. Of the ones that did (myself included) had some pretty attractive female friends that would always mock us for talking about whatever nerdy thing was happening that day. Generally it didn't bother me or my other friend, but to some of them it did, and they even approached me about it personally saying they didn't want attention drawn to themselves to get made fun of and mocked. So I relented and shut up when they wanted me to. But a few times some of the girls (they happened to be the more attractive ones..so make of that what you will) actually said some really nasty things and even told us to take our (obviously beneath them) conversation somewhere else, this really rubbed me the wrong way so I put them in their place. This has been common in my experience with most females regarding gaming/nerd culture. Many dabble with CoD and Mario. Angry birds, mobile games, and classic arcade Nintendo stuff. But that is as far as they go. I've recently been in a server VOIP for my Guild Wars 2 realm for its open world PvP, and there are lots of different personalities there. It is predominantly guys, but there quite a few girls there too. But most of the girls don't seem like they are there to play serious PvP or PVE. Many are there being chatterboxes and trying to draw attention to themselves, the worst of which are drama firestarters that won't get muted or banned because some have sexy voices and in a channel full of 60 dudes and 2 or 3 girls, some guys are gonna want to hear that. If I bear any animosity toward women or fellow male gamers it is this, play the game for what it is and enjoy it. Don't use it as a tool or vehicle to achieve a different end like starting drama. Being a nerd/geek is very much steeped in enjoying something for the sake of itself and nothing else, it comes from deep immersion and giving yourself to a certain aspect of the culture and enjoying the hell out of it. It is much the same as sports in this way for sports nerds.

Not all women are drama seekers out to get attention, and I would be foolish to label them as such. Like anything else it is the few that spoil it for the many, and by reading this thread it seems there are many female gamers out there that would be an absolute JOY to play with. Anyone who wants to experience this wonderful aspect of technological culture I welcome you with open arms. Just please enjoy it for what it is, don't come here expecting to use it for some other means, especially if it is destructive.

PS. Most peoples ability/desire to delve so deeply into a culture might not be the same as your own, that said our gamer culture is still male dominated. That is why finding a woman like in this video should be considered a mythic/legendary accomplishment :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxx6BupgRmI

Who are you, to decide what anyone can or cannot do with a game they have purchased? You have no authority, no credibility, nothing at all. If someone want to play Guild Wars mostly to socialize, they are more than welcome to. Just as people are allowed to roleplay in Guild Wars, or PVP, or PVE, withou people like you judging them or trying to drive them away because they do not fit into what you define as "the proper way". That is not for you to decide. So please, do not come here and claim it is.

And stop with the defining of what makes someone a geek or a nerd, or what it means to be a geek or nerd. That is not something you have any power to do, any of you, especially when you try to use it to force a demographic out of you little clubhouse.[/quote]

Who am I? Just a GW2 player, and as to my authority, I have as much authority as any other guild wars 2 player in the channels except for the admins of said channels. You seem to have missed the point of my post where I said people CAN do what they want and where I welcomed them to do just that. But in the TS3 community server there are PVE channels where people can PVE. There are roleplaying channels where they can roleplay, and there are PVP channels where "hardcores" and people who only come for the PVP go. So, if people come to talk about there day in that channel they might be asked to leave or do it another time in the public lounge channel, thats just how it is.

As to defining what nerd or geek is. I suggest you wake up and deal with the fact that both those words are very nebulous terms and that people will always try and define them with their own definitions and classifications, it may not be "right" but people won't stop doing it. I'm not forcing anyone out. I want as many people to come enjoy this stuff as possible.

Astro:

You keep missing my point. It doesn't matter what you think about a certain character, it's contemptible to be intentionally overly sexually provocative at a gaming convention - even if you really like Mad Moxxi. A person who does this isn't just indulging a hobby, they're purposefully assuming a role that's guaranteed to have men giving them a lot of sexual attention. If it were a pornographic convention it would be fine, but the people at gaming conventions are there because they like videogames, not because they want to be manipulated into being enamored by someone who isn't contributing anything of worth. I should also mention that a person who's in a scantily clad costume whose intention isn't to draw attention to themselves isn't necessarily contemptible, but they are a dunce and oblivious to their own blatantly inappropriate behavior.

I don't care how you feel about the rest of my position, and I'm not particularly interested in convincing you that women dressing in absurdly sexualized costumes at a focal point for an interest that is predominantly enjoyed by dorky males aren't doing it for attention.

Technically people can do a lot of things which other people don't like without any repercussions, but following that up with 'that must mean it's appropriate and it's ideal that they're allowed to do whatever they want within the confines of the law' is weepy bullshit. I don't care that you want to cosplay Mad Moxxi and you happen to have huge breasts, it's disruptive and inconsiderate if you choose to do so.

You cant tell someone why they are doing something. If they are doing it for the hobby and they say so they are right and you are wrong because its their opinion and their body. I refuse to look at someone and judge intent based on looks. Thats shallow and unfair. My advice is that if youre offended by people wanting to look nice thats fine go ahead and be offended. But dont expect people to try and constrict how they want to look based on your offence and if you even try and make them feel bad or guilty or manipulative just for looking how they want to look then thats a totally dickish thing to do and you should feel bad. Shaming people for their physical appearance is always the utmost of dick moves.

Get over being disrupted. That girl has every right to cosplay Moxxi and your offence doesnt make one lick of difference. Just dont try and be a twat to her about it and we are fine. Youre going to fail to convince me to assume such a motivation based on their cosplay yes so your interest is totally irrelevant. Judging a person without even talking to them is shallow and idiotic. I thought nerds HATED people judging them based on looks?

People shouldnt have to restrict their cosplay because men cant contain their sexual attention. They should just get over it. This is why i despise slut shaming. You dont know a single thing about a girl just because she wears "Slutty" clothing. Nothing. Nothing at all. And as such you dont have any way of judging them. Your judgment is less than worthless. I cant stand people being shallow and judgmental. Whats weepy bullshit is "WE CANT STAND YOUR BOOBIES SO DONT COSPLAY MOXXI" Thats stupid as hell and i refuse to sink to such a level. If you become "Enamored" just because someone has some boobs and you MIGHT be able to see a little bit of those boobs youre not mature enough for adult society let alone a convention. Im sorry but its true.

You also dont get to decide what contributions are "Worth" anything assuming that statement isnt as vapid as it looks. Contribute? Fucking contribute WHAT? As a fan you contribute your time and your enjoyment. What the hell else does everyone else "Contribute" ive not been made aware of. I paid the money to get in right? Did i need to donate 2 "Nerd dollars" to count as contributing?

Suffice to say i dont care if youre offended at all. You dont get to make other people feel bad about how they choose to look at a convention about their passion without being a total douchebag. Their WORDS and ACTIONS sure. Their APPEARANCE? Thats the shallowest thing ive ever heard.

BiscuitTrouser:

Astro:

You keep missing my point. It doesn't matter what you think about a certain character, it's contemptible to be intentionally overly sexually provocative at a gaming convention - even if you really like Mad Moxxi. A person who does this isn't just indulging a hobby, they're purposefully assuming a role that's guaranteed to have men giving them a lot of sexual attention. If it were a pornographic convention it would be fine, but the people at gaming conventions are there because they like videogames, not because they want to be manipulated into being enamored by someone who isn't contributing anything of worth. I should also mention that a person who's in a scantily clad costume whose intention isn't to draw attention to themselves isn't necessarily contemptible, but they are a dunce and oblivious to their own blatantly inappropriate behavior.

I don't care how you feel about the rest of my position, and I'm not particularly interested in convincing you that women dressing in absurdly sexualized costumes at a focal point for an interest that is predominantly enjoyed by dorky males aren't doing it for attention.

Technically people can do a lot of things which other people don't like without any repercussions, but following that up with 'that must mean it's appropriate and it's ideal that they're allowed to do whatever they want within the confines of the law' is weepy bullshit. I don't care that you want to cosplay Mad Moxxi and you happen to have huge breasts, it's disruptive and inconsiderate if you choose to do so.

You cant tell someone why they are doing something. If they are doing it for the hobby and they say so they are right and you are wrong because its their opinion and their body. I refuse to look at someone and judge intent based on looks. Thats shallow and unfair. My advice is that if youre offended by people wanting to look nice thats fine go ahead and be offended. But dont expect people to try and constrict how they want to look based on your offence and if you even try and make them feel bad or guilty or manipulative just for looking how they want to look then thats a totally dickish thing to do and you should feel bad. Shaming people for their physical appearance is always the utmost of dick moves.

Get over being disrupted. That girl has every right to cosplay Moxxi and your offence doesnt make one lick of difference. Just dont try and be a twat to her about it and we are fine. Youre going to fail to convince me to assume such a motivation based on their cosplay yes so your interest is totally irrelevant. Judging a person without even talking to them is shallow and idiotic. I thought nerds HATED people judging them based on looks?

People shouldnt have to restrict their cosplay because men cant contain their sexual attention. They should just get over it. This is why i despise slut shaming. You dont know a single thing about a girl just because she wears "Slutty" clothing. Nothing. Nothing at all. And as such you dont have any way of judging them. Your judgment is less than worthless. I cant stand people being shallow and judgmental. Whats weepy bullshit is "WE CANT STAND YOUR BOOBIES SO DONT COSPLAY MOXXI" Thats stupid as hell and i refuse to sink to such a level. If you become "Enamored" just because someone has some boobs and you MIGHT be able to see a little bit of those boobs youre not mature enough for adult society let alone a convention. Im sorry but its true.

You also dont get to decide what contributions are "Worth" anything assuming that statement isnt as vapid as it looks. Contribute? Fucking contribute WHAT? As a fan you contribute your time and your enjoyment. What the hell else does everyone else "Contribute" ive not been made aware of. I paid the money to get in right? Did i need to donate 2 "Nerd dollars" to count as contributing?

Suffice to say i dont care if youre offended at all. You dont get to make other people feel bad about how they choose to look at a convention about their passion without being a total douchebag. Their WORDS and ACTIONS sure. Their APPEARANCE? Thats the shallowest thing ive ever heard.

Your unwillingness to judge people by their appearance doesn't make it any less a part of social protocol that if you present yourself a certain way, you're going to be received accordingly. I accept that it's inappropriate to walk around not wearing clothes, so I don't do it because not wear clothes doesn't suddenly make it more appropriate.

Why do you keep referring to 'rights'? You have the right to do a lot of things which wouldn't necessarily be viewed as moral or considerate.

Agreed, men should just not be attracted to women, they should just get over it. Also you should leave your children with pedophiles because they should just get over their attraction to children otherwise I can't be an idealistic and naive if they don't.

I've already stated, contributing nothing but fandom is fine, you aren't taking or giving anything aside from the purchases you make and the addition of another member of the community. However, when you're using videogame culture to selfishly leech sexual attention you are taking something, but you aren't giving anything back (sexuality doesn't count because it has nothing to do with videogames [unless you have a good as fuck or interesting costume]). What if I posted nothing but boring self-indulgent content, do you think that's equally as valid posting nothing?

matthew_lane:
But you aren't talking with someone, you are talking "AT" someone. I mean if all you want to do is hear your own voice, you could just sit at home & talk to a brick wall... it'll comprehend almost as much of what you are saying.

My house doesn't have any brick.

Astro:

Your unwillingness to judge people by their appearance doesn't make it any less a part of social protocol that if you present yourself a certain way, you're going to be received accordingly. I accept that it's inappropriate to walk around not wearing clothes, so I don't do it because not wear clothes doesn't suddenly make it more appropriate.

Agreed, men should just not be attracted to women, they should just get over it. Also you should leave your children with pedophiles because they should just get over their attraction to children otherwise I can't be an idealistic and naive if they don't.

I've already stated, contributing nothing but fandom is fine, you aren't taking or giving anything aside from the purchases you make and the addition of another member of the community. However, when you're using videogame culture to selfishly leech sexual attention you are taking something, but you aren't giving anything back (sexuality doesn't count because it has nothing to do with videogames [unless you have a good as fuck or interesting costume]).

Of course theres the miniumum requirement for clothing depending on the context. But this is a fun event thats meant to be for everyones passion to go crazy for their fandom and be silly as hell not a formal dinner party! For fun silliness. This is what being a nerd is all about! Doing whatever you want to show your love for something free of judgement. In this context crazy and unusual outfits are TOTALLY acceptable. Its a fancy dress party!

In the real world some people are sexy. If you cant handle that youre not ready for the real world. I didnt say they shouldnt be attracted. But "Enamored?":

en·am·or/iˈnamər/
Verb:
Be filled with a feeling of love for: "it is not difficult to see why Edward is enamored of her".

I mean seriously thats a little weird. Youre not being manipulated because someone is attractive. By that logic shampoo is manipulative because good hygiene is attractive. You have to get over being attracted to people (Not STOP but accept it just happens and it isnt a crime). Its hardly the end of the world. Just ignore it and accept it as part of life. Your examples are crude and unrelated. Are you comparing YOURSELF to a pedophile? Really? Pedophiles cant get over their love of children so they molest them and in the same way you cant get over your love of attractive women you havnt talked to so you... demean them? I dont really get the parallel. You have to get over living in a world where people are sexy. And a world where those sexy people dont wear the clothes that hide said sexiness.

Being attractive isnt taking anything. Theres nothing to take. There isnt take or give of any kind at all. Its liking. A thing. Its simple as. It isnt a trade. Its a like of something. No one needs to give anything because its impossible to "take". Its just... BEING as you want to be. Its hardly draining a finite resource.

FYI i think modern standards on nudity are stupid. And yeah i think everyone has a right to decide how they want to look. And sure SOME things you have a right to do are immoral. Except no outfit or appearance (even naked) strikes me as even slightly "Immoral". What are you a priest from 1850?

Its ok for you to not like it. Im trying to argue against that but at the end of the day it doesnt hurt to not like it. Im ok with people not agreeing that how i look is good. Im not ok with people trying to demean me about it or judge my character because of it. Theres a separation of appearance and character.

BiscuitTrouser:

Astro:

Your unwillingness to judge people by their appearance doesn't make it any less a part of social protocol that if you present yourself a certain way, you're going to be received accordingly. I accept that it's inappropriate to walk around not wearing clothes, so I don't do it because not wear clothes doesn't suddenly make it more appropriate.

Agreed, men should just not be attracted to women, they should just get over it. Also you should leave your children with pedophiles because they should just get over their attraction to children otherwise I can't be an idealistic and naive if they don't.

I've already stated, contributing nothing but fandom is fine, you aren't taking or giving anything aside from the purchases you make and the addition of another member of the community. However, when you're using videogame culture to selfishly leech sexual attention you are taking something, but you aren't giving anything back (sexuality doesn't count because it has nothing to do with videogames [unless you have a good as fuck or interesting costume]).

Of course theres the miniumum requirement for clothing depending on the context. But this is a fun event thats meant to be for everyones passion to go crazy for their fandom and be silly as hell not a formal dinner party! For fun silliness. This is what being a nerd is all about! Doing whatever you want to show your love for something free of judgement. In this context crazy and unusual outfits are TOTALLY acceptable. Its a fancy dress party!

In the real world some people are sexy. If you cant handle that youre not ready for the real world. I didnt say they shouldnt be attracted. But "Enamored?":

en·am·or/iˈnamər/
Verb:
Be filled with a feeling of love for: "it is not difficult to see why Edward is enamored of her".

I mean seriously thats a little weird. Youre not being manipulated because someone is attractive. By that logic shampoo is manipulative because good hygiene is attractive. You have to get over being attracted to people (Not STOP but accept it just happens and it isnt a crime). Its hardly the end of the world. Just ignore it and accept it as part of life. Your examples are crude and unrelated. Are you comparing YOURSELF to a pedophile? Really? Pedophiles cant get over their love of children so they molest them and in the same way you cant get over your love of attractive women you havnt talked to so you... demean them? I dont really get the parallel. You have to get over living in a world where people are sexy. And a world where those sexy people dont wear the clothes that hide said sexiness.

Being attractive isnt taking anything. Theres nothing to take. There isnt take or give of any kind at all. Its liking. A thing. Its simple as. It isnt a trade. Its a like of something. No one needs to give anything because its impossible to "take". Its just... BEING as you want to be. Its hardly draining a finite resource.

Yes, the context of gaming conventions is one of fun and light-hearted amusement, not intentional sexual displays of breasts and buttocks.

There's a difference between someone who's attractive and someone who's intentionally showing off how attractive they are in a male dominated space like gaming for the expressed purpose of reaping sexually-charged attention. You're intentionally ignoring context, a handicapped person blocking you from walking down a hallway by being too slow isn't contemptible, but a shithead who's perfectly healthy doing the same thing is.

No, I'm not comparing myself to a pedophile, I haven't stated that I'm personally attracted to manipulative women. I'm implying that ignoring the fact that sexual attraction happens and it's acted upon is foolish and naive.

Hypothetically, if a naked woman was in the middle of a room dedicated to looking at pictures chocolate or whatever, the naked woman would be taking attention and mental energy away from what the purpose of the place is. This naked woman would be a nuisance and a leech, especially if she's intentionally doing this to benefit from the attention.

Astro:

Yes, the context of gaming conventions is one of fun and light-hearted amusement, not intentional sexual displays of breasts and buttocks.

There's a difference between someone who's attractive and someone who's intentionally showing off how attractive they are in a male dominated space like gaming for the expressed purpose of reaping sexually-charged attention.

No, I'm not comparing myself to a pedophile, I haven't stated that I'm personally attracted to manipulative women. I'm implying that ignoring the fact that sexual attraction happens and it's acted upon is foolish and naive.

Most of our laws surrounding rape depend on the idea that men can and will totally control how they act on their sexual attraction. its not difficult to control. I see no issue with breasts and buttocks in a costume as long as its canonical and in the spirit of video games. Why not? Express your love of that game freely and without restraint i say.

Youre comparing men in general to people who physically cannot stop themselves doing immoral things due to sexual attraction. Thats hardly a strong argument. You can ignore sexual attraction. Its not hard. Im not saying ignore it. Im saying accept it as part of life and dont make a big deal out of it. Im attracted to people sometimes. Its just a thing you feel in your head and go "That person looks attractive" and get over it by going about your day. If you fawn over a person or give them unnecessary attention thats the DUDES failure rather than the person they become infatuated over based entirely on appearance.

BiscuitTrouser:

Astro:

Yes, the context of gaming conventions is one of fun and light-hearted amusement, not intentional sexual displays of breasts and buttocks.

There's a difference between someone who's attractive and someone who's intentionally showing off how attractive they are in a male dominated space like gaming for the expressed purpose of reaping sexually-charged attention.

No, I'm not comparing myself to a pedophile, I haven't stated that I'm personally attracted to manipulative women. I'm implying that ignoring the fact that sexual attraction happens and it's acted upon is foolish and naive.

Most of our laws surrounding rape depend on the idea that men can and will totally control how they act on their sexual attraction. its not difficult to control. I see no issue with breasts and buttocks in a costume as long as its canonical and in the spirit of video games. Why not? Express your love of that game freely and without restraint i say.

Youre comparing men in general to people who physically cannot stop themselves doing immoral things due to sexual attraction. Thats hardly a strong argument. You can ignore sexual attraction. Its not hard. Im not saying ignore it. Im saying accept it as part of life and dont make a big deal out of it. Im attracted to people sometimes. Its just a thing you feel in your head and go "That person looks attractive" and get over it by going about your day. If you fawn over a person or give them unnecessary attention thats the DUDES failure rather than the person they become infatuated over based entirely on appearance.

Laws are based on functional moral guidelines, that doesn't make them fair or useful in every context.

I have an issue with breasts and buttocks presented in such a way that's intentionally siphoning attention and mental energy from an activity for the gain of one selfish individual.

What? Why do you think that pedophiles "physically cannot stop themselves" from having sex with children? It's known and documented that many pedophiles choose not to have sex with children.

Okay, a hypothetical fawning male has agency for what he's doing, and a hypothetical attention-seeking female has agency for how she's presenting herself. On one hand you have a demographic of typically (or rather they're seen as) needy and sexually starved men, and on the other you have a singular woman who's exploiting that, coincidentally or not. Hmm, I wonder which would be more likely to change.

The thing that gets me is why do many people think that it's only girls who do this? No one likes a poser, be it male or female. I'm a girl and yes I have had to justify my gaming choices on more than one occasion and it's bloody ridiculous that I have had to. At the same time I shouldn't be forced to cover up my gender just to appease stupidity, I tend to pick feminine names and female characters, that doesn't make me a poser, it just means I want to play a female character. I'm not going to throw the fact that I'm a girl out there for all at all times, the only times I'd mention I'm a girl is if someone asks or if someone just thinks I'm a guy then I will correct them. I'm not going to deny it, I find fake gaming people annoying on the very rare occasion I come across them,but I just ignore them and get on, it really is not hard to do.

Should these fake people be given such a hard time? Not really, unless they become emotionally manipulative. There are plenty of girls out there and fake nerd girls and guys are a bit of a rarity. The way some people spout about it you'd think they were an everyday occurrence and that all females must be the same way.

Skyweir:
did you just compare "geek" culture with high order mathematics?

By the way, most people at scientific conventions do not quiz each other on what they know.

Thats because they don't have too... Because Higher Order Mathematics hasn't been made currently popular, by entry level non geekdom. Nor is it plagued by trendies. An please, lets not pretend that geek culture is not currently plagued with trendies, due to the current popularity of shows like Big Bang Theory.

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