Jimquisition: Fake Nerd Girls

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Taunta:
But taking that to its logical conclusion, it gets very conspiracy theorist. "Fake girl gamers" are all evil, cruel women who just want to use your interests to manipulate you into getting attention from them! THE HORROR, THE HORROR!

...When in reality, these "fake girl gamers" are either a) Not "fake" or b) not very knowledgeable about the subject, but are interested. That should be an opportunity to teach them, not to shun them out of your secret club.

I tend to agree, but I do want to leave an "out" for those who feel manipulated by the use of sexuality in the medium as a whole as opposed to those who just want an excuse to mistreat actual individual women (that is, immature jerks.)

I think Jim misses the point. Its not about girls having to prove they are "gamers" (a word that sounds pretty ridiculous itself), its not about being bother by people saying they are into something they are not just to fit in... its about female posers, people craving for male attention and going to such length to get it that it makes me suspicious of almost every instance I see someone (not even a woman) attractive being into a side of nerd culture.

I am not about getting the high ground and claiming I don't appreciate a good looking woman, but one that dresses up as a male fetish to have others oozing at them does insult my intelligence. It does because she (or the people that paid her) assumes that being a male gamer automatically makes me a loner that can't get his eyes out of anyone slightly attractive that makes so much as bat an eye to me. It insults my intelligence because she (or the people that paid her) assumes I am part of an audience that only needs a pretty face and boobs to get my attention. It insults my intelligence because it stereotypes me.

People are mad cause cute girls are cosplaying and wearing Mario Shirts? Why? It sounds like a win win situation.

A wild counter argument has appeared!

I'd say that women in the gaming community are often seen as a personification of this kind of culture shift. It's not necessarily their fault, but they're simply an easy target for people to take out their frustrations.

Smilomaniac:

Lying to peoples faces isn't bad behaviour? Thinking that the people they're lying to are so stupid that they'd actually believe it?
Sure, I could just placate them or avoid them, but I'd rather show how pissed off that makes me feel and let them know that it isn't alright. In fact, I think that's a bigger sign of respect than any other response.

Who's lying? They took the time to find a costume related to gaming, learn enough to portray that person, and immediately they're looked upon as if they're fake. Whether they are or not. What's dishonest is looking at them that way in the first place.

Remember, even Felicia Day was recently called out on this (by a Destructoid contributor no less), a woman who built her entire career and production company around a show based on an MMO guild. She was asked to produce her "credentials" so to speak. Whereas Jim, Angry Joe, Total Biscuit have never been asked.

What does this have to do with any of the things I've said?
This is about people POSING to be something they're not, or at least that's the people I'm talking about.
What do you want me to say about it? That it sucks?
That's just how it is, prejudice goes both ways in all sorts of subjects. I have no problem with honest people.[/quote]

The point is that they don't get the third degree, but even someone who's long established her nerd cred does. You know why people are poseurs? To belong. Why do they want to belong? Because they're genuinely interested.

2:20 WHAT IS THIS?
Am I the only one seeing this?

Anyone watch Andrea the Black Nerd? He basically says the same thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp4RqySm0iA

Just guessing, and feel free to disagree with mere here, but maybe there's an element of hypocrisy on the part of the women that do go to conventions dressed like pikachu in a miniskirt. The idea that they can essentially pander, even totally whore themselves out for attention, then criticize or even badger men for being attracted to that sort of thing. It's like the old joke about showing cleavage then being shitty to men for looking. I'm just guessing here.

Or maybe enough men have been derided for being shiftless video gamers by women and this is some sort of backlash?

Or maybe men are tired of watching other men get all saccharine or turn into creepy stalkers because women attract this kind of attention deliberately and shift the conversation away from games and too how hot she looks dressed in that cheerleader outfit? Even I admit frustration when I wanted to talk about a game and women turned themselves into big sexy game related ornaments to divert the conversation to themselves (No I'm sure they don't dress in skimpy outfits for attention and to feel attractive, who the hell wants that, right?)

There's a reason for everything, even if said reason is trivial, so I'm sure there's a reason for this.

GLo Jones:
A wild counter argument has appeared!

I'd say that women in the gaming community are often seen as a personification of this kind of culture shift. It's not necessarily their fault, but they're simply an easy target for people to take out their frustrations.

Words change. In the same breath as saying that nerd means something to be derided, but someone also needs to go through that sort of dirision to have pride in the name, well, that's hypocracy.

Nerd and geek culture have been commodified and is the popular thing right now. We should be revelling in it.

I was one of those who suffered through it, and it offends me that one must go through that to be accepted these days.

I used to hate these Mega64 bits, but then I realized this is them making fun of the extreme and often twisted views some guys have of girls as gamers.
Enjoy!

Bara_no_Hime:

... and the harm in that is what? Isn't that exactly why all the male gamers are there - a safe environment to enjoy their interests?

And yes, nerds have a community. They've had one for years. That didn't/doesn't make Star Trek conventions any more accepted.

That response made no sense to me what so ever.
I just explained to you why being a nerd in western culture isn't necessarily a bad thing or unappealing.

Smilomaniac:
*snip*

Bara_no_Hime:

I call bullshit.

There are easier communities to fake one's way into. Sports for one. Jocks don't care if you can't name the whole team roster so long as you wear the proper t-shirt and watch the game with them.

And you know what - I find sports DULL. Boring. I don't want to be part of that community - I want to be part of a community that shares my interests.

I was president of my college anime club (undergrad) and was in gaming clubs through both undergrad and gradschool. I have never seen any woman fake being a fan to get things from the men involved.

I have seen women fake being interested in a given guy to get things. I've seen that a lot. It didn't matter if the guy was in anime club or not. I've even seen a girl who was in the anime club string along people who weren't in the club, getting them to come to the club and turning them INTO anime fans while she sucked the money from their pockets.

So yeah, so far as I can tell, the "pretending to be into gaming to steal money from male gamers" is a lie. There are easier ways to do that.

However, it is possible that a female gamer might ALSO be a monetary predator. That's fine. It doesn't make the girl any less a gamer. It just makes her a gamer AND a manipulative bitch.

I'm not sure why you're trying to prove yourself to me, I haven't questioned your interests in any way, nor am I interested in your motives. I'm merely explaining to you why some are doing this.

First off, let me explain you the difference between the two types of posers:
There's the commercial types, such as booth babes - The people behind them are the ones with a financial interest. I have no big issue with these, because it's largely obvious what the point is.

The second type, the ones that this whole topic is about, are the people who specificly pretend to be someone they're not, in order to either get accepted into a group and or get attention from people.
Include the MMO players who use their gender to get special treatment.

Anyway, your bullshit call is irrelevant. I just explained the whole point to you, take it or leave it. I can't help it if you've never met a manipulative person faking interest in order to get attention, just to play with people.

Well it seems pretty obvious.. I don't have an issue with videogame hot girls. Or hot non videogames girls, or hot videogame dudes.. or any combination of likenesses..
But FAKE is something that is understandably annoying.

As lots of other people, I have a problem with phoneyness in general. I've met some very attactive men/women that are into videogames, and you can tell their love for the subject, on the other hand I've met insecure people pretending to love videogames that etray themselves and sound like some stereotype just to fit into a group. And there lies the problem... why pretend to be something that you are not? what purpose does it serve? Is it insecurity that makes you show yourself in a certain way just to be accepted?
It's honestly sadenning to see people like that, and personally I find that it can also get extremely annoying when people bastardize the things you love as a fashionable product.

In general when someone has a deep personal understanding / love for something, and he/she sees someone else capitalizing on the commercial / superficial aspects of that something... it is annoying.

So.. duh... pretty weak episode.. I suppose you're tired jim.

Taunta:

The problem is, what are people gonna do about it? Why do girls 1,3, and 4 need to be tested in the first place?

OT: Because the point of the video is this leads to some sort of witch hunt which only affects women, which is fucking stupid. If you're a man, and you say you play video games, people take you at face value. If you're a woman, you have to prove that you have a right to exist. What are the requirements for being a "genuine" gamer girl? Do you have to own X number of video games? Must have a certain level of unattractiveness? Must play X Y Z genres?

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where we went back to third grade. When did trying to share someone's interest in order to get their attention become a bad thing? When did video games become a secret elitist club? Why, instead of being excited that they're interested, and showing them more, is the response "EWWW, GIRLS ARE ICKY"?

How paranoid do you have to be to think talking to someone is a test? If someone is wearing a damn pikachu shirt and I happen to really like pokemon, then of course I'm going to want to talk to her about pokemon and of course if she doesn't know, it's going to be disappointing. When that happens over and over, and every attempt and video game discussion with a pretty lady ends the same way, people are going to start getting fucking irritable.

So no, not every attempt at conversation over a t-shit/costume/keychain etc. is a fucking pop quiz. Sometimes we're just excited to see someone with think shares an interest with us and want to talk about it.

Combustion Kevin:
isn't this just an extention of the booth babe thing?

you know, girls dressing up to pretend to like a game they're promoting.

otherwise, I got nothin'.

I've never attended a gaming convention so I don't really know where all this stuff comes from, but booth babes would be different because they are promo models. They'll act like their interested in the game/games while in costume because it's their jobs. Tomorrow they might be modeling in a bikini at a car show acting interested in muscle cars. You will find out who the real person is if you see or know them in between the jobs.

jmarquiso:

Who's lying? They took the time to find a costume related to gaming, learn enough to portray that person, and immediately they're looked upon as if they're fake. Whether they are or not. What's dishonest is looking at them that way in the first place.

That's... hilariously ironic.

You're not adressing what I'm talking about. Please read my posts again.

The point is that they don't get the third degree, but even someone who's long established her nerd cred does. You know why people are poseurs? To belong. Why do they want to belong? Because they're genuinely interested.

Again, this has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

You seem to be assuming I can't tell the difference between someone who pretends to be interested and someone who is.
Either that, or you're genuinly convinced that these kind of people don't exist.

ShadowKirby:

Ashoten:
Seriously Jim? Fuck you on this one. This a far more complex issue of social interaction that relates to all male/female interaction(Including transgender and homosexuals of course) and not just gamers in particular. Why do think those movies about 3 buddies that get broken up by a random set of breasts appearing keep getting made?

A lot of male nerds have toiled to establish the nerd culture(just as you said) specifically or indirectly because they didn't have female companionship to distract them. So now that The nerd culture is bigger and more acceptable it is only natural for old timers to be suspicious of any new comers. The poser knows no gender but in my own credulity I have witnessed what happens when a random poser usually a girl enters the scene.
Groups break up,feeling are hurt, and friends no longer speak to each other. Maybe this isn't the girls fault maybe the guys in the group let their testosterone take control. I have had legitimate nerd girls in my circles of friends and it was cool but the painful times when things went bad are the ones that stick out in our memories.

What you are seeing is real concern and fear that is always exhibited when previously unknowns are introduced. Interactions between men and women are real chemical reactions because they are different some very distinctive ways. Of course since I am a Fat chud white heterosexual male neck beard in his early 30's you can dismiss my opinion as short sighted egotistical rantings.

And for the record men don't get off judgement free Jim. You always have to worry about weather you are perceived as an alpha who leads or a beta who follows or risk being outcast because you don't have a defined role.

URHG! Nerd culture (whatever that is) was also founded by nerdy women like Roberta Williams, Carol Shaw, Dona Bailey, Anne Westfall, Jane Jensen, Brenda Laurel, Brenda Brathwaite, Janet Murray, Amy Briggs, Danielle Bunten Berry, etc...

If little boys cannot control themselves when a girl is around it is THEIR fault, not hers. There are no gatekeepers no geekdom. There is no test one has to pass to be accepted. Someone likes the same thing you like, that's cool. They don't need to know everything about every other subject you care about to be accepted as a TRUE geek.

Seriously, am I a real geek guy? Are you? Who knows! And more importantly, who cares! If your little boy club implodes because you a *gasp* girl into it, maybe it wasn't that much of a cool club to begin with.

As for those talking about hypocrisy. Get over it. It sucks you were bullied in high school or whatever because of what you liked, but becoming the bullies to people who are now showing interest to what you like is not some kind of sweet justice, it's just acting like an ass.

Your right. Any problems I have with a new person assimilating into a group is at least half my fault. I just want to relay the fact that it is always difficult for any culture (especially an ill defined one such as nerd culture) to incorporate elements that are perceived as different. Jim didn't even try to tackle the issue but just said people where stupid for not immediately getting over their credulity and accepting whatever is the new talking point of the month.

But wouldn't women who have been a part of the "nerd culture" for as long as the men also be wary of posers/fakes or newcomers? I am also afraid that if I am publically happy that full grown women dress up as sexy mlp characters because it adorable I will be labled as a hormone crazed sexist that only views women as sex objects. I feel like I can't win no matter what position I take up here.

--

irmasterlol:

Taunta:

The problem is, what are people gonna do about it? Why do girls 1,3, and 4 need to be tested in the first place?

OT: Because the point of the video is this leads to some sort of witch hunt which only affects women, which is fucking stupid. If you're a man, and you say you play video games, people take you at face value. If you're a woman, you have to prove that you have a right to exist. What are the requirements for being a "genuine" gamer girl? Do you have to own X number of video games? Must have a certain level of unattractiveness? Must play X Y Z genres?

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where we went back to third grade. When did trying to share someone's interest in order to get their attention become a bad thing? When did video games become a secret elitist club? Why, instead of being excited that they're interested, and showing them more, is the response "EWWW, GIRLS ARE ICKY"?

How paranoid do you have to be to think talking to someone is a test? If someone is wearing a damn pikachu shirt and I happen to really like pokemon, then of course I'm going to want to talk to her about pokemon and of course if she doesn't know, it's going to be disappointing. When that happens over and over, and every attempt and video game discussion with a pretty lady ends the same way, people are going to start getting fucking irritable.

So no, not every attempt at conversation over a t-shit/costume/keychain etc. is a fucking pop quiz. Sometimes we're just excited to see someone with think shares an interest with us and want to talk about it.

Because the original post was portrayed as one. Read between the lines.
"She said she liked video games and could only name one console."(In a list of "fake gamer girls", so we already know the conclusion to this story)
"She said she liked video games" (so I asked her about consoles) "And she could only name one console" (therefore she "failed the test" and I determined her "fake", because we already know I determined her "fake" when the story began)

Also, again, last time I checked, knowledge about the source material is not required for buying a t-shirt that you think is cute. Just because someone doesn't know about Pokemon doesn't mean you can't still talk to them about Pokemon. Maybe it means they're interested in Pokemon but never really had a chance to get into it. This is your chance to teach them about Pokemon, but instead you (or the OP) choose to reject them. That doesn't make them very likely to try to get into Pokemon again.

And the point is not about "people who get disappointed when someone is not as interested in something as you are". It's about "people who set arbitrary rules for (specifically) women to prove themselves worthy enough to join their arbitrary club".

I never said every attempt at conversation was a pop quiz, thanks for putting words in my mouth. But the examples in the OP were quizzes.

Wait, nerd girls are a thing?
Wait, FAKE nerd girls are also a thing!?
Wait, people are angry about this?!
Meh, doesn't bother me either way, although I do like the "safe male haven" idea.

I'm also not surprised that the video for Lollipop Chainsaw was not shown in the UK...

Actually Jim it would have been nice if you addressed the actual issue. Interestingly you don't touch the issue of the reception less attractive, or those of average apperance, receive in comparison.

You also seem to miss the point that the arguement "they aren't hurting anyone" doesn't apply here, you say you can't understand how this hurts anyone, but if that's the case I can't help but wonder how closely you've listened to the actual complaints.

The rage over the "fake nerd girls" is pretty much about exploitation. The basic idea being that if you have a hot girl promote something, it's going to manipulate men into spending money on that product or service. If you put a hot girl into the equasion on a product aimed at a male demographic famous for not having any luck with girls at all, it's even more effective. That's advertising in a nutshell, and in of itself wouldn't be that big a deal, IF it wasn't being directly tied to the whole "Camwhore" phenomena and other internet honey traps. The idea being that a fairly attractive girl, seperated by the barrier of The Internet, but able to promote herself, can insinuate herself into communities of people starving for female attention, and then parley her attention into gifts and benefits, through generating "hits" for a channel if nothing else. Some of the contreversies over online gift or "wish lists" have also circulated around girls doing this kind of thing using such services to receive their payment.

The anger in this case isn't so much about wanting to keep "fandom" male only, so much as it is that most of the guys getting upset wish that there were attractive women into this stuff, but there are so many fakes that it has become expected.

There is also a little more to the "cred" involved than you, or other critics speaking against this, want to give credit to. A nerd is by definition a social outcast, a pariah, a hermit, who is scorned by society. Someone who by nessecity takes escapism to extremes, and winds up becoming an expert on a lot of this kind of media. A greater-than normal interest in comics, video games, or whatever does NOT make you a nerd or "hardcore" in this context. Your attractive girl by definition can and does fit into society, and that creates a barrier that is hard to overcome, not to mention means that the person is going to lack the focus to become the "real deal" in regards to the media itself. To put things into perspective here if you look at a lot of these "Nerd Girl Responses" people have been trying to get to catch on, like oh "I haven't read every issue of Batman, and neither have you", kind of miss the point that a real nerd who is fiaxated on Batman probably HAS read every issue of Batman, going to extreme lengths to obtain scans if nothing else. What's more it goes further than that, let's say "hot nerd girl" is an expert on Batman and has more than a passing of interest, understand that the REAL nerd is probably also an expert on half a dozen other things to the same degree. This occurs because the Nerd literally has no life in a traditional sense due to beign a Nerd, a pariah, an outcast.

Also I'll point out that men DO get the same kind of responses, with gaming and "geek culture" becoming a bit more popular, there has also been a backlash against "casuals" in general and in paticular against the "Bro" or "Fratboy" involvement in gaming, to the point of that group being mocked even more than the false nerd girls. It's just that you see less desperate nerd boys wanting to white knight some jock.

Basically, if your one of those who can claim to have a life other than gaming or "nerd media", a solid circle of friends you deal with in person (as opposed to other nerds you deal with at a safe distance), and similar things, then your really not a "nerd" in this context. That might not bother the nerds if it wasn't being used for purposes of manipulation, or if you didn't have people demanding and receiving "cred" as nerd-culture experts when they hardly fit the bill.

I guess what I'm saying is that the nerd-cosm is a refuge for the pathetic, now that it's producing something that society is beginning to value, there are attempts to take that without the rest of it. Not to mention is that your typical outcast longs for acceptance on their own terms, when you get some attractive girl or "Bro" doing research on a subject over Wikipedia (the obsession of Nerds in catalogging their favorite forms of escapism has contributed to the problems) and then acting as a spokesman for "Geek culture" as opposed to a REAL, pasty, obese, acne-covered, behemoth of a geek, it breeds resentment. Being a big, fat dude Jim you have the advantage of being someone who fits the stereotype, by your own admission, you are a member of the club, or at least can pass.

Yes, this is pretty damning towards nerds (arguably my own people, especially now) even as I say it, but it's the truth.

The question of whether an attractive girl could ever truely be a nerd IRL is a subject of debate in of itself. It can be argued that a girl who is conventionally attractive always has the option to be accepted by society as long as she remains attractive, which prevents her from ever truely joining the "nerd herd".

Also don't misunderstand, nerds love their eye candy, booth babes are something a lot of nerds have defended. Just don't try and present the models as being nerd girls. Nerds can accept and appreciate the advertising (even if more aware of it than I think those presenting it would like, which is half the problem, nerds are a paranoid and hyper-aware bunch).

Oh yes, and also Jim, you might not be aware of this, but among Nerd culture when it comes to "Nerd Girls" on the internet who are not tied to a product, there is a sort of game going. When one of these shows up you have the nerds talking to her sort of side-betting privatly on how long it takes for her to try and get something out of them. This is actually sort of what spawned the entire "Tits Or GTFO" meme, since flashing their boobs is one of the things these girls eventually work into their routine in their effort to exploit you. The girl shows her boobs, and she expects something from you even if she's subtle about it, with the implication that you need to make her happy to see them again (or perhaps hints of more), it can be done in differant ways. The meme is kind of a "let's cut through the chase, we know why your here".

Smilomaniac:

You seem to be assuming I can't tell the difference between someone who pretends to be interested and someone who is.
Either that, or you're genuinly convinced that these kind of people don't exist.

That's close to what I'm saying.

What I said - originally - was that poseurs exist in nearly every subculture. They always have and they always will. The idea of the "fake nerd girl" is that an girl pretends to be a nerd to get male attention - which for the most part doesn't exist nearly as much as the gamer/geek/or nerd subculture say it does.

You won't catch a Cinephile telling a poseur to fuck off and making some sort of meme out of it. You will probably see them attempt some conversation, they may come off as snobbish, but there's usually enough there for the poseur to genuinely learn about something.

To be honest this issue to me is about as relevant as femi-nazi's. I hear about it all the time on the internet, but I am yet to actually meet anybody who has this attitude in real life.

So to me I just consider it yet another thing blown completely out of proportion.

..

Repeat post, ignore

...

ms_sunlight:

vun:
Oh, a Jimquisition that, at least in my opinion, misses the point a bit. Or at least avoids a point that shouldn't be.
I think part of the problem here is that people generally don't like fakes, not just limited to the gaming community.

Who the hell gets to say who's a fake and who's not though. That's the thing! If a guy is just getting into something, no-one calls him a fake. If a dude turns up at a convention in a costume, no-one asks him 20 questions to make sure he's entitled to wear it. Why should women be assumed to be liars and have to prove themselves? And what empirical evidence is there that there's a plague of phonies with vaginas trying to invade geekdom and fandom?

When there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that there is any significant number of "fake nerd girls" out there, you can only call it what it is - a backlash about women coming into previously predominantly male spaces, fuelled by stupidity and misogyny.

I'm not gonna go too deep into this as it's not really something I give a lot of thought, but gaming has been a mostly male thing for a while now, and is full of young males full of hormones. This makes them easier for "pretty" girls to exploit, I'm not gonna say they have exploited this because, apart from the "I'm a girl give me stuff" in WoW you hear about I can't really recall any examples I could reference here.

The reason nobody questions dudes if they are proper nerds or not is because in most cases they have nothing to gain by just pretending. Hell, in many cases they might have something to lose due to how 'gamers' and 'nerds' are seen by those who do not fit into those categories.
Girls, on the other hand, can have something to gain from it. I have also seen it happen in my social circles.
My memory is a bit hazy, but in the girls' defense I do think I've seen boys do similar things as well, although not related to gaming so not really all that relevant to this discussion.

For the record; I'm not in the misogynist camp, I'm simply saying I can see where some of them are coming from.

I'm sick of this crap, we like stuff because we like it not to impress guys don't be so self important :p

Therumancer:
Also don't misunderstand, nerds love their eye candy, booth babes are something a lot of nerds have defended. Just don't try and present the models as being nerd girls

Oh so we are okay to ogle but not actually be one of you? Nice...really nice >_>

Personally I think us male geeks should be more insulted by the fact that gaming industry seems to content to stereotype us as Horny, Social outcast virgins who would buy something just because a hot girl promises it would help us "score". I'm looking at you axe male grooming products.

I can understand, to a degree, one developing a distaste for "fake gamers" of any gender. As it has been stated, it wasn't long ago that many of us were, at best screwed with, and at worst demonized for our particular hobby, interest, culture, whatever you'd like to call it. Since those days, gaming has gone mainstream & many other facets of geek culture have followed. Now those same people (or demographics of people) are claiming to be a part of our culture, with no real interest or investment in it, because it's trendy. It's reasonable to think that some might feel a bit like the big kids that beat them up when they were little are trying to steal their toys even after they've all grown up.

I have my own grievances with the mainstreaming of geek culture; what was once essentially owned & operated by the intellectual elite is now being over-run with the rest of the world because they have money too. Why produce quality for the hardcore when the lower tiers of society will pay just as much & in greater numbers for the brown-grey mush that is console gaming. We got out-voted & that sucks.

& yes, there are absolutely women out there who will put on a geek-face so they can feel like the center of the universe. There aren't a ton of them, as compared to actual female geeks; they just all flock to conventions because that's a good strategy if you want to get oggled. These women are sad excuses for people, so desperate for attention that they've take up a fake personality just to fit in with a group they scorned 10, 15, 20 years ago. I might go as far as to say they're annoying for taking up space in our gathering places.

That is as far as I'd take it: Annoying

They don't really take away from what we do or what the true geeks have. They barnacles with bleached blonde hair & should be treated no more seriously

Moonlight Butterfly:
I'm sick of this crap, we like stuff because we like it not to impress guys don't be so self important :p

Therumancer:
Also don't misunderstand, nerds love their eye candy, booth babes are something a lot of nerds have defended. Just don't try and present the models as being nerd girls

Oh so we are okay to ogle but not actually be one of you? Nice...really nice >_>

Booth babes do not even count in this discussion

They're models. They're being paid to do it by the people running the con.

It's a job

jmarquiso:

That's close to what I'm saying.

What I said - originally - was that poseurs exist in nearly every subculture. They always have and they always will. The idea of the "fake nerd girl" is that an girl pretends to be a nerd to get male attention - which for the most part doesn't exist nearly as much as the gamer/geek/or nerd subculture say it does.

You won't catch a Cinephile telling a poseur to fuck off and making some sort of meme out of it. You will probably see them attempt some conversation, they may come off as snobbish, but there's usually enough there for the poseur to genuinely learn about something.

I don't care which subculture it relates to. Liars are liars, if they shit on my lawn they'll be asked to take it elsewhere. I've seen enough guys getting lured in because they have a motorcycle, by girls who have no interest beyond the occasional ride, to know that this is in no way uncommon, nor in the gaming-culture.

You might not be pissed about it, but that's not the point. The point is that there is legitimate reason to be annoyed by these kind of people, who exist in abundance, and that the video only glanced the issue, combing over everyones opinion as chauvenistic assholes who don't deserve an objective observation.

Jimothy Sterling:
Fake Nerd Girls

The latest flavor in the restaurant of controversy is the concept of the fake nerd girl -- women who pretend to like videogames and similar media, all for the express purpose of tricking honest, hard-working Americans.

Watch Video

What have they done? How have they hurt gamers and the industry? Wow dude, its like you aren't paying attention.

In just this year alone:

-iJustine
-Halo4 Sexism Bans
-"Appealing to a Wider Audience" [dilution of core game mechanics and genres to appeal to {women}] - ongoing
-Anita Sarkeesian
-Exiling Booth Babes from conventions [sexism or something]
-A certain female Bioware writer who when confronted by fans of a series, instead of admitting her mistake or recognizing the horrible writing, instead claims that fans are saying that she's a bad writer because she's a woman.
-The Tekken X something tv show where this girl gamer was so upset about the hazing that goes on in gaming all the time. On tv.

Shall I go on? Fake gamer girls are a plague on the industry and are nothing but attention seeking women who exist in the industry to do nothing more than be seen and make money off of being seen. I'm so tired of women dictating that everything they get involved with must conform with their ideals and standards instead of adapting to the environment. The only reason these women are able to exist in this medium at all is due to their gender and no one will call them on it. I'm tired of women making everything about their genitals. Its the first thing they do when entering a new arena, and its the last thing they do before it dies/stagnates.

Respond if I missed anything.

Moonlight Butterfly:
I'm sick of this crap, we like stuff because we like it not to impress guys don't be so self important :p

Therumancer:
Also don't misunderstand, nerds love their eye candy, booth babes are something a lot of nerds have defended. Just don't try and present the models as being nerd girls

Oh so we are okay to ogle but not actually be one of you? Nice...really nice >_>

I've seen a dozen posts here deliberately trying to veer the discussion AWAY from gender issues. For the love of everything, don't open that can of worms.

His point is that they are not the kind of people in question, in this debate. Everyone knows what booth babes are and what they represent. This has nothing to do with them.

Yes...because the gaming industry itself never used fake (Digital) girls to try to get your attention.

I don't get how girls who use fake-gaming as a form of sex appeal can be a problem to gamers when the gaming industry uses fake girls as a form of sex appeal all the time. At best, you're just reading too much into something you should be able to see through, and at worst, as Jim said, you're just scaring off potential female fans from joining in.

Its rare I comment here but this one just got to me, sorry but I disagree with Jim to the nth degree here.

vun:
Oh, a Jimquisition that, at least in my opinion, misses the point a bit. Or at least avoids a point that shouldn't be.
I think part of the problem here is that people generally don't like fakes, not just limited to the gaming community.

In short; people don't like it when other people get undeserved attention for pretending to be something they aren't. Or something.
I'm not really able to word myself properly here without getting terribly philosophical, which is why I was hoping Jim would. But he didn't, so you'll have to live with my poor wording until someone else manages to do it right.

That said, it has probably been blown up to a bigger issue than it really should be.

Says most of what I would want to.

Part of the issue is coming from the sex sells principal, now extending from this is the idea of people wanting to find someone into what they are.

The whole fake gamer girl issue really kicked off big time a few years ago when a site called Gamewithgirls or something like that launched. The site actually got crashed due to the number of visitors going there. So what was this site offering ?
well people going there could pay $5 a minute to have one of the sites girls play in their game, nothing more than that, no seriously $5 a minute just to have a girl in the same match as you.

Now with the launch of the series "the Big Bang theory" Geek chic is in, the idea of being a bit of a geek is now the trend ( consider the hate hipsters get who moved to being fans of certain bands etc only when they are popular and then claiming they were there from the beginning). Now to use the big Bang theory script itself almost "They aren't like regular guys they don't know how to use their shields" The idea being that us fat ugly nerds aren't used to having a hot girl come onto us. The idea being we are easy targets to be exploited and some girls see it like Tink (from the webseries the guild) the idea guys are there to be used and its their own fault for not realising or as some kind of revenge for being attracted to them.

The big annoyance is the idea that Geek culture is being exploited. Look at the reply girl culture youtube had, why did people hate them ? Because they were doing next to nothing making the same money or more than actual content producers and being able to by using cleavage shots in their thumbnails and pulling in those who just went "huur boobs hurr must click boobs".

Now combine this with gaming and the idea that they can produce the same low quality content and just throw in a bit about gaming and attract a whole new crowd essentially by being fake. Beyond that there is the idea of girls in real life using the geek angle to exploit people not used to being able to spot when they are being exploited.

Essentially this could be seen as the female version of a love rat, the idea is the guy is the perfect guy for them, caring, good looking etc when in reality the girl is one of multiple people and its all lies.

This leads into the issue of a slightly over protective community and some girls then turning and being upset the moment anything less than brilliant is said about them, I've seen it happen on the TGWTG forums as one female user came on and asked for honest feedback, she got it and as she'd been used to the youtube culture and not a culture of producers (both male and female) who didn't pander to her and gave her honest critique she then claimed everyone there was being horrible, mean and were just jealous etc etc then stormed out of the forum. Its a shock for many as certain communities do pander a lot to girls (the Wow community had a spate of people playing female characters simply to get other guys in the game to help them quest and give them stuff).

Now to give context to this I was deceived a bit by my ex who was an actual gamer girl she did play games and enjoy it however the rest of what I knew about her turned out to be the lie. when we first started we first started dating she was a lover of rock and roll, enjoyed a quiet night in and was open minded. Hence I was shocked 2 years down the line when she died her hair bleach blonde revealed she supported the BNP (If you don't know who that party is then you're lucky) and most of the time I'd been away shed spent her time going out getting completely trashed at R&B clubs. Now I personally didn't think I was gullible at least I thought I knew her but I was proved wrong. I get how bad finding you've been deceived can be (yeh cool story bro etc etc). Being deceived is not something nice so the idea of people going out to deceive people deliberately for whatever reason is annoying. I feel the same was about fake nerd girls and lying playa's.

Jimothy Sterling:

Yellowfish:
Um, can someone please tell me what is the name of that game with big burly men running through walls?

Muscle March.

Eeewwwww. That name is possibly even more disturbing than the game footage.

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