Jimquisition: Fake Nerd Girls

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Aurora Firestorm:
This is demeaning to both men and women.

It's the thought that women are so fake and duplicitous that they will go out of their way to trick unsuspecting men, that "pretty" is incompatible with "smart," "nerdy," or whatever, and that they live on attention so much and are so desperate to toy with people's brains to get it, that they'll lie through their teeth for it.

It's also the thought that nerdy men are so alone and so incapable of finding love that they will jump around like puppies and be lovestruck into stupidity when something with boobs walks by, that they have no real standards and are just looking to get laid because they're sad, needy failures at social life.

Frankly, the whole thing is just ridiculous.

The issue is, some guys will do that.
Just as you hear so many stories about women falling for "love rats".
What because men are meant to be all strong and such they can't have these things happen ??

Its almost a counter sexism thing "guys deserve to be taken advantage of because they want love "

TheKasp:

longboardfan:

-iJustine

Had no impact to gaming.

-Halo4 Sexism Bans

Has only good impacts on gaming. But also: Nothing new. I tend to ban assholes from my servers as well.

Depends if it works both ways as is yet to be seen

-"Appealing to a Wider Audience" [dilution of core game mechanics and genres to appeal to {women}] - ongoing

Because there are no women core gamers, amirite?
Sorry to tell you: Has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Until you apply it to bloggers and other Elebrities. I seem to remember MeganLeeHeart starting a gaming channel up almost randomly, as have others simply to appeal to more people. Its not so much the games themselves as the culture round the games and people viewing games with people jumping on it.

How many gaming news things are hosted by fairly attractive women these days and how many are hosted by the likes of Jim ?

Now I'm not saying these women aren't gamers at all but take this outside of the "legitimate" companies and think of all those people going out their way to get views by playing the gamer card too.

-Anita Sarkeesian

Has no impact on gaming.

Until we see Mirrors Edge 2 which she's working as an advisor on (and DICE are being forced to implement her suggestions) we have no idea if she is having an impact.

-Exiling Booth Babes from conventions [sexism or something]

Has no impact on gaming.

Part of the maturation of the industry, essentially it has to prove it can work without it before it can be trusted not to abuse it as such.

-The Tekken X something tv show where this girl gamer was so upset about the hazing that goes on in gaming all the time. On tv.

With 'girls' you mean the Twitch community manager Jared Rea who is not used to seeing a bunch of sexist assholes harassing their teammember. He actually expected professional behaviour from so-called professional gamers. And what the fuck does that has to do with fake gamer girls?

While I will say this was a disgusting display and wrong. There is an underlying issue of girl gamers being seen to have an easier time. There are as such two side in gaming and I've written about this before being two sides with no middle ground the Chauvinist and the White Knight. The issue is the gender taking place over being a gamer. The Chauvinist side are the "OMG show us boobs, show us boobs" while the White Knights are "we must defend the fair Lady". Neither of these are good as personally I had a disagreement with someone online. I didn't know who they were but I disagreed and called their plan moronic in a team game. I went with my plan and refused to help with theirs. We won and I had a large amount of the teams points. For 15 minutes after the match I had a constant stream of messages of abuse. As it turns out the person whos plan I had said was moronic was female. I didn't know she was female until it was said to me after I didn't get why I was being called a chauvinist pig. I was hammered with insults, threats to have me banned and death threats for almost a solid 15 minutes by a group of guys who were friends of hers playing the the match because apparently I was being so horribly sexist by disagreeing with her as I would have if a guy had suggested that plan. (I seriously couldn't tell she was female over the mic as she just sounded like a gobby 13 year old dude to me).

So what's the point of this cool story ?
Well it shows white knight culture in action. People are afraid to disagree or say anything negative for fear of being called sexist despite the fact they are attacking the validity of the argument or points raised not the person themselves.
The idea is while girls can get abuse from Chauvinists they can also have their own defence force that are over-active and rather vicious and follow them round. This means for some they aren't exposed to some aspects of gaming such as actual trash talk. So while some things are completely wrong to say as exampled by the Tekken incident, sometimes even a simple thing due to them not being used to anything but their own way mostly they see even someone disagreeing with them as a sexist attack of some kind.

The problem is with placing the gender first in the issue as it ignores if the points raised are valid by saying "Oh you're doing this because of this reason" the issue is how explosive the accusation is when in reality the person was talking about something else.

blackrave:
WAIT, WHAT?
There are girls to pretend to be nerds?
Especially gaming nerds?
WHY?
We mostly are dungeon dwelling solitary morlocs who:
bathe only because smell starts to bother neighbors
have unhealthy skin color because of regular all nighters and going outside rarely
have waistline powered by snacks and softdrinks
have atrophied muscles (except hands- those can crush bricks)
looking as unappealing for opposite gender as possible
wears strange and often dirty clothes
not to mention social skills lower than concrete
[disclaimer for those who like to nitpick: that was stereotypical exaggeration for proving point]

WHY IN THE HELL ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO PRETEND TO BE SOMEONE LIKE THAT???
Are they are insane? Or stupid? Or stupinsane?
Man, this world is getting more and more crazy :/

Bill Gates is one of the Richest guys in the world. He's also a nerd.
Not many nerds are rich but I dare say most of us near human subspecies have some money, sure its not huge amounts but those games and expansions won't buy themselves. Now imagine if a girl could tap into that cash stream. It may not be great but heck its easy money if they could do it. The basis is that of a Gold digger, except now that most billionaires have found the wonders of pre numptuals its harder to be one. Unless you can find another group who you can exploit.

see the character of Tinkerbala from the guild, her attitude is men are tools to be used like a spanner. In the series the character is a gamer, now imagine if she were telling more lies simply to use you. That's the issue here the lies, the idea of people not only lieing about something but doing it simply to get money and not lieing to save someone's feelings etc.

Anyone know what in the hell that game footage from the first half of the video was from? It was... I don't even know but I need to play it now.

SaikyoKid:

mrhateful:
-Snip Snip-

This is one of the most depressing posts I've read in a while. You don't want to let people join in on your hobby simply because they didn't have to deal with the hardships of your childhood? I honestly don't know how to properly respond to this other than grow up a little bit dude. People don't have to be beat up anymore or go through any sort of initiation just because they claim to like a certain thing.

Did you even read my post??? I specifically said at the beginning I like that more women are joining the gaming community all I said was I didn't like posers that made us look bad. Honestly I welcome others to join gaming and everywhere I go I talk about how great gaming is.

Wait... This is a thing? Really? I would think hot girls showing up at conventions would be a good thing whether their interest in the material was genuine or not. WTF Internet?

Honestly, it does piss me off a bit. When I see some girl biting a controller (or worse, the time I saw a girl biting a goddamn gamestation reward card...in an official gamestation advert) in a "sexy" way, it's like...seriously? But I guess, if these people (and they do exist, although in nowhere near the majority that the internet would have you believe) want this attention, then it doesn't harm me much.

The only thing is, it does make me uncomfortable.

getoffmycloud:
The only issue I can think off is these people is they do exist are likely to be the same kind of people who 10 years ago would have bullied someone for liking games so I can see the problem there.

This may actually be why. I've said it before, I'll say it again, I can't have been the only one who shat themselves a little when I started seeing the kind of people who would have bullied me in school appearing in gaming stores, "kind of people" of course referring to people who don't look like, well, nerds.

Sheo_Dagana:
snip

Also, I like how your posts starts with you saying "women are getting into video games" like they weren't into them before recently. Clearly YOU didn't do any research on the matter.

Okay badly stated what I tried to say is I don't have anything against women gaming in general, just the ones that says their into gaming but really aren't, making us look like douches and idiots.

Also I have just as much against fake male gamers as female ones but the male ones aren't that rampant that its a problem.

longboardfan:

Jimothy Sterling:
Fake Nerd Girls

The latest flavor in the restaurant of controversy is the concept of the fake nerd girl -- women who pretend to like videogames and similar media, all for the express purpose of tricking honest, hard-working Americans.

Watch Video

What have they done? How have they hurt gamers and the industry? Wow dude, its like you aren't paying attention.

In just this year alone:

-iJustine
-Halo4 Sexism Bans
-"Appealing to a Wider Audience" [dilution of core game mechanics and genres to appeal to {women}] - ongoing
-Anita Sarkeesian
-Exiling Booth Babes from conventions [sexism or something]
-A certain female Bioware writer who when confronted by fans of a series, instead of admitting her mistake or recognizing the horrible writing, instead claims that fans are saying that she's a bad writer because she's a woman.
-The Tekken X something tv show where this girl gamer was so upset about the hazing that goes on in gaming all the time. On tv.

Shall I go on? Fake gamer girls are a plague on the industry and are nothing but attention seeking women who exist in the industry to do nothing more than be seen and make money off of being seen. I'm so tired of women dictating that everything they get involved with must conform with their ideals and standards instead of adapting to the environment. The only reason these women are able to exist in this medium at all is due to their gender and no one will call them on it. I'm tired of women making everything about their genitals. Its the first thing they do when entering a new arena, and its the last thing they do before it dies/stagnates.

Respond if I missed anything.

Because treating women like human beings and cracking down on sexist manchildren is somehow a bad thing. Also your definition of a fake gamer girl seems to be a women who doesn't take sexist crap. Seriously booth babes while admittedly not the most important thing still piss me off as I find it insulting to men that there's a presupposition we'll buy anything as long as there a skimpily dressed female in the vicinity. Appealing to a wider audience wow games are becoming more diverse and are no longer in strict genre walls and that's terrible. Name me one game that is specially designed for women and don't mention one for little girls as this discussion is evidently not about 7 year olds.

BiscuitTrouser:
I cant believe people actually believe such things as

"WHEN I WAS A NERD I WAS BEATEN UP! NOW WHEN THEY DO IT THEY GET LAUDED! THATS SO UNFAIR!"

Didnt you always fight for acceptance? To not let gaming define you totally but instead just to be a thing you LOVED like everything else people love?

Which makes as much sense as an elderly black man who fought for the right to vote saying:

"WHEN I WAS A YOUNG MAN VOTING I WAS BEATEN UP! NOW THEY DO IT AND ITS ENCOURAGED! THATS SO UNFAIR!"

Very faulty analogy. I didn't see anyone in this thread hating basic idea of gaming, or comics, or anything else, getting more socially accepted. I know that I don't hate that.

The analogy would be more fitting if the young black voters would be explicitly comparing themselves to the heroes of the Civil rights movement, abusing the fact that the significance of going to vote has changed, and they are not bravely fighting authority as the old man did.

The problem is not that young people are having a good life, but that they are belittling the memory of those who weren't as lucky as them.

Gaming is now a worldwide mainstream cultural phenomenon, with facebook games, iPhone apps, etc. That's good, I guess. Comic Book adaptations are being turned into blockbusters. That's pretty neutral to me, I don't care about comics anyways. Sci-fi shows are common, zombies are more mainstream than football, good for the artists, otherwise whatever.

I don't mind them loving their own, changed versions of these. But couldn't they enjoy them without ripping off the mannerisms and surface elements of that weird subculture of loners and freaks a few decades ago, who pursued "childish" hobbies, who obsessed over hated genres, whose entertainment often actually got BANNED, and who went the hard way to do the unusual, the freakish, the unacceptable?

canadamus_prime:
Wait... This is a thing? Really? I would think hot girls showing up at conventions would be a good thing whether their interest in the material was genuine or not. WTF Internet?

Well, its actually quite different when these girls show up at conventions, and then laugh at and mock the average congoer.

To put it simply, its more like the subculture where the "geek" has been subverted by the same individuals who used to beat them up in High School, or openly mock them, and no longer have a place in that group anymore. This is not just "girls" either. There are certainly many geeky women who are widely accepted among what could be construed as the more typical geek paradigm. Even these women are mocked by other women outside of that paradigm.

To put it simply, many people in this thread just don't know what the issue is or are misidentifying it, and Jim still has yet to make a salient point about pretty much anything.

Its not really much different from the bandwagon fan mentality in professional sports. The difference, is that if you have a replica of the fenway park scoreboard in your living room, you're seen as a diehard, and while maybe not accepted, you are at least respected. There's entire cultural outlets that cater to you. The cultural outlets that were previously just for the diehards of geek/nerd culture, are catering to a more casual group.

Been thinking a lot about what you've said, Jim, and the comments made on the video, because some people have made some fairly good points, trying to separate the argument you constructed for the exclusive purpose of tearing it down for show, from what I actually feel.

Ok I've tried typing this out about 4 times now, but just thinking about the definition of a "nerd", and what it means to me, reminded me of highschool, I had a friend who was a textbook nerd(looked like harry potter, played warhammer), we a shared a lot of 'nerdy' interests but I was never ridiculed for being a "nerd" while he was(he claimed this was because of my appearance).

It appears to be a misunderstanding of what a "Nerd" is:

For years "Nerd" was the title given to a social outcast, someone who was given nothing by their peers and turned instead to gaming or comics. Taking refuge in their parents basement while they roll D20's(sterotypical and pretty far from the truth for most cases nowadays, I'm aware). People were labeled Nerds and played videogames/read comics/anime because they were socially awkward, they were not nerds because they did those things, they did those things because they were nerds, that's a distinction many people don't seem to realize. When someone who clearly isn't a social outcast(looks as a metric for judging whether someone is a social outcast or not is scale that's worked since adolescence) claims to be a Nerd(a label forced on someone who's a social outcast) it's akin to a white kid pulling his pants halfway down his ass and saying "What's up my n******s?" he's pretending to be something he's not, looks utterly ridiculous, and clearly doesn't understand the culture he's claiming to be apart of.

Now I realize games and graphic novels have become more and more mainstream these days, and yes I welcome new fans to the medium, another sale of a good game by a good studio ensures they'll survive to make another. But people don't realize that playing the same games a nerd does, or reading the same manga, does not make you a nerd, just like swearing/yelling at people in the kitchen and cooking doesn't make me Gordon Ramsay. Gaming is becoming more accepted by popculture, and broadening to appeal to more than just the socially awkward, it has the right to as a medium, but like a dolphin caught in a tuna-net, the attentionseeking or ignorant might find themselves at a convention going on about what a gamer they are because they played the new halo, or how they're "such a nerd" because they play pokemon/watch Big Bang Theory.

Also, Gratz Megan and Jared! :D

CaptainChip:
I would also like to point out that people who usually hate "fake geek girls" also hate guys who do the same thing. It's just that you don't see it from guys as much. It's really not a sexism issue as much as it's made to seem.

^
Exactly, what makes you so mad about it, is that a person seeks attention in something you love.

I have a hard time giving a good example but try this one:
imagine you loved watching football and it was a really interesting match but instead of interviewing the players afterwards the media interviews a cheerleader because she took her bra off. Now imagine if the media then asked her, her opinion on how the game and represented her like she was one of the players. This is why fake gamer girls are such an affront to gaming in general.

Fake gamer girl tricked me into giving her attention then turned out to not like games after all.

----Doesn't matter had sex.

Lame people not able to close the deal really don't need to be mad at "fake nerd girls"

mrhateful:

Sheo_Dagana:
snip

Also, I like how your posts starts with you saying "women are getting into video games" like they weren't into them before recently. Clearly YOU didn't do any research on the matter.

Okay badly stated what I tried to say is I don't have anything against women gaming in general, just the ones that says their into gaming but really aren't, making us look like douches and idiots.

Also I have just as much against fake male gamers as female ones but the male ones aren't that rampant that its a problem.

But how? How do they make us look like idiots and douches? Are you saying that you have never once misrepresented yourself in order to fit in or sell a product? I pretend to be a nice guy at work so people will buy shit. I'm actually an asshole that hates them all.

Besides, what do you care if a woman calls herself a gamer, but only plays Farmville or whatever wild example you have in your head? I already pointed out that your earlier reasoning - how they didn't have to put up with being hazed in school - is invalid because not all of us were. If that's what you say makes 'us' (I hate that you lump us all together with you) idiots and douches, then speak for yourself, please.

Sheo_Dagana:
snip

Its hard to explain why they are so offensive but I tried to give an example 2 posts up.

sammysoso:
When gamers wonder why we're not taken seriously? Why we're still held at a distance by the mainstream media?

Things like this.

Who are these "gamers" you speak of?

Entitled:

The analogy would be more fitting if the young black voters would be explicitly comparing themselves to the heroes of the Civil rights movement, abusing the fact that the significance of going to vote has changed, and they are not bravely fighting authority as the old man did.

The problem is not that young people are having a good life, but that they are belittling the memory of those who weren't as lucky as them.

Gaming is now a worldwide mainstream cultural phenomenon, with facebook games, iPhone apps, etc. That's good, I guess. Comic Book adaptations are being turned into blockbusters. That's pretty neutral to me, I don't care about comics anyways. Sci-fi shows are common, zombies are more mainstream than football, good for the artists, otherwise whatever.

I don't mind them loving their own, changed versions of these. But couldn't they enjoy them without ripping off the mannerisms and surface elements of that weird subculture of loners and freaks a few decades ago, who pursued "childish" hobbies, who obsessed over hated genres, whose entertainment often actually got BANNED, and who went the hard way to do the unusual, the freakish, the unacceptable?

The heros of old didnt fight for personal recognition or merit. They probably knew they would recieve none and many would bastardise their cause. The "heros of old" wouldnt mind becaue the fact that these people exist to do this proves their fight is won. Im VERY happy people can now use our mannerisms and surface elements without being persecuted. Im happy that the fruits of our labour went to make others happy. I dont mind that they "Rip us off" or that they enjoy the original without "Fighting the good fight". Just because they werent around, old enough or in the right place to "Fight the good fight" doesnt mean they arnt entitled to the original experience we fought so hard to just enjoy ourselves.

The old man should be proud his achievement gave people the ability to do these things without persecution. He shouldnt be bitter that people "Piggy back" on his glory but instead be proud his glory is something worth piggy backing onto. Sure he wont get any credit. But its damn satisfying to see a younger generation enjoy the things i did without the contempt. MAybe a few get them wrong. But thats ok. Because it doesnt hurt me when they do, i just ignore it, and when they get it right it makes me smile.

Of course young people belittle the achievements of those who earned them what they have now. Its what they do. How old were you when you realised and FULLY appreciated, i mean FULLY, how much you owed the veterans of world war 1 or 2. Can you ever REALLY appreciate them enough? The younger generation are really bad at this. Its in their nature. It was in ours too.

SnakeCL:

canadamus_prime:
Wait... This is a thing? Really? I would think hot girls showing up at conventions would be a good thing whether their interest in the material was genuine or not. WTF Internet?

Well, its actually quite different when these girls show up at conventions, and then laugh at and mock the average congoer.

To put it simply, its more like the subculture where the "geek" has been subverted by the same individuals who used to beat them up in High School, or openly mock them, and no longer have a place in that group anymore. This is not just "girls" either. There are certainly many geeky women who are widely accepted among what could be construed as the more typical geek paradigm. Even these women are mocked by other women outside of that paradigm.

To put it simply, many people in this thread just don't know what the issue is or are misidentifying it, and Jim still has yet to make a salient point about pretty much anything.

Well I'm not sure I understand, but that's certainly different than just demanding geek credentials of hot girls that show up at conventions, which I would think would be a good thing.

SnakeCL:
Its not really much different from the bandwagon fan mentality in professional sports. The difference, is that if you have a replica of the fenway park scoreboard in your living room, you're seen as a diehard, and while maybe not accepted, you are at least respected. There's entire cultural outlets that cater to you. The cultural outlets that were previously just for the diehards of geek/nerd culture, are catering to a more casual group.

But isn't that an entirely different issue?

Triaed:
Hmm, although Jim s calling them out and ridiculing their outrage (those gamer who feel offended by fake-gaming-girls); I truly don't see the point. It is a non-issue coming from a non-entity causing no repercussions.

Repeating Jim's comments: is this a thing, Internet? Really?

It is an issue when a person (male type) goes up to the "Hot nerd girl in cosplay" and tries to call them "out" on it. Not only would it hurt the woman's feelings, but others who might be there for the first time, would say "gee, I really do not want to be associated with sexists. The stuff looks cool and all, but I'll pass".

That is the real danger, allowing the KKK (metaphorically) to be sexist and hurt My rep, Your rep, and all Geek cultures rep.

I do know people who look at gamers as sexist because of the whole http://kotaku.com/5889637/sexual-harassment-is-a-joke-to-these-fighting-game-fans thing. So ya, I will speak out against the stupid people, who make us all look bad.

It's the matter of posers. I don't particularly care when it comes to video games, because it doesn't really matter. When it comes to music I do care. Mostly because posers create a market and a poor public image for what doesn't really have much of a public presence anyway. Why do you think emo became a thing?

mrhateful:

Sheo_Dagana:
snip

Its hard to explain why they are so offensive but I tried to give an example 2 posts up.

Yeah, none of which seemed to make sense to me. You acknowledge men can do the same thing, but only give examples about women. I'm not sure what you're hang up is, but it seems to go deeper than booth babes.

Sheo_Dagana:

mrhateful:

Sheo_Dagana:
snip

Its hard to explain why they are so offensive but I tried to give an example 2 posts up.

Yeah, none of which seemed to make sense to me. You acknowledge men can do the same thing, but only give examples about women. I'm not sure what you're hang up is, but it seems to go deeper than booth babes.

Oh I have nothing against booth babes lol, they are hired for a job to show off a product.

mrhateful:
Moar snips!

Truthfully, I did read the post but the content really did kind of confuse me for a bit. You say you like more of the female crowd joining in, I got that bit just fine. But then it got kinda weird with you saying, from what I understood at least, that you dislike posers because you have pent up rage about you being berated as a child for saying such things in public while they get lauded and praise for it? That's the point where I say grow up. We're adults now and no longer in grade school. If they want to flaunt something like that, even if it's fake, let 'em. They aren't making anyone look silly but themselves when people see they really don't know anything about what they claim to know. If people give you flack for actually being knowledgeable in a certain thing, then you probably shouldn't be associating yourself with those people anyways. Nobody can make you look like a douche or an idiot but yourself dude.

Yopaz:
I rarely agree this much with him. Seriously, why would anyone get upset over a person being so desperate for your attention that she pretends to like what you do just to get attention? It seems like a strange thing to get upset over, but I don't know.

You, like Jim, miss the point entirely. It's not girls wanting to fit in or being "desperate for your attention" it's girls out to manipulate nerds, either for their own ends, or being paid to do so by someone else (like in the case of booth babes and the like).

I wrote a more detailed answer (phrased to aim it directly at Jim) earlier, but I imagine it was too long for a lot of people, and also not what they'd want to hear.

Welp! Thank jeebuz for Jim!

Alright, I hate to be that person but...I am indeed a gamer girl and I HATE being called out by other guys who feel the need to constantly test my knowledge about videogames at all. It's rather insulting and annoying. And if I, let's say, don't know the name of the alien guy that tags along with Sheppard on his adventures then I am just an ignorant poser and should go back to the kitchen and prepare a sammich for all those true gamer boyz out there!

Sorry about the rant there but it's true. I work at GameStop and I constantly have to go through that.

On the other hand, I do hate it when a girl claims to be a gamer and they're not. There I am, thinking I actuall met another girl who likes games just as much as I do and could possibly have a conversation with her without the sound of someone burping or something (My gamer guy friends do that...) and...it's a lie.
It goes a little like this:

Me: "Oh, so you're buying Dragon age? I love that game!"
Girl: "Well, it's for my boyfriend. I play other kinds of games."
Me: "Oh, really? What kind of games do you like? I like most RPGs but I'll admit I'm into CoD a bit and I'm nostalgic about platformers. *Something something fan-like talk about games*
Girl: "Oh, I played Pac man when I was a kid. Now I play NeoPets! It's so cute! :D"

I don't know if that's what Jim was going for but it really sucks when someone claims to be a gamer and...they don't even know how to turn on a system. And that applies to both guys and girls. it's as if I claim to be a car enthusiast because I have a car and I like to wash it and I know it needs gas and then this guy walks up to me and talks to me about the engine and stuff like that in detail and he's all passionate about and then I just go ahead and say "Hey, I don't like cars that much! That's silly!".

Okay, so I digress. What I seriously doubt is a girl would pretend to be a hardcore gamer or a nerd to get it on with another guy. It just doesn't make sense. I cannot think of a single scenario whee that would work.

TL;DR: It sucks being called out by guys who doubt my gaming knowledge/authenticity (?) and I can see some girls taking advantage of that. But not that many.

SaikyoKid:

mrhateful:
Moar snips!

They aren't making anyone look silly but themselves when people see they really don't know anything about what they claim to know.

Your absolutely correct, the problem is when people don't do this.

Beautiful End:

Snip

Big respect to you, in all honestly I feel the most for you in all of this because your the one that has to deal with the actions of these stupid fake gamer girls.

I also think your example was really good for why its offensive because its like they are making fun of you for even thinking gaming is fun.

jmarquiso:

GLo Jones:
A wild counter argument has appeared!

I'd say that women in the gaming community are often seen as a personification of this kind of culture shift. It's not necessarily their fault, but they're simply an easy target for people to take out their frustrations.

Words change. In the same breath as saying that nerd means something to be derided, but someone also needs to go through that sort of dirision to have pride in the name, well, that's hypocracy.

Nerd and geek culture have been commodified and is the popular thing right now. We should be revelling in it.

I was one of those who suffered through it, and it offends me that one must go through that to be accepted these days.

Specifically referring to the bolded part: why? No, really... why? Why should anyone revel in a bunch of strangers coming into their house acting like they own the place? It's one thing if I can go up to one of these supposed "fake nerd" girls, and we can actually hold a discussion about the Atari 2600's impact on modern gaming citing specific examples (or something similar)... if you can do that, you're a nerd in my book. The disconnect comes from when you go up to one of those "fake nerds" and they look at you like you are a nerd and don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Did you catch that? They want to take your hobby and make it into a slogan. They want your title... but they don't want to be like you. It's image over substance. I suppose in a world full of shallow people... who've never experienced people of real substance... one more shallow person isn't going to bother them.

And besides, most nerd girls I've known personally... REAL nerd girls... don't care much about their image. And ZERO gamers wear nothing but Nintendo-branded gear. NONE OF THEM.

For me, that's all it comes down to: if you know your shit, we're best friends. If you're just putting on a costume, GTFO.

It's like the guys says in the video about punks. To add to what he said, though: the original punks wore what they wore because that's all they could afford... or the shops that sold those kinds of clothes were punk-friendly (e.g. fetish shops). They didn't go out and buy "punk clothes" to advertise themselves as punks. It's just who they were.

Substance, people... recognize it? How about authenticity? Does anyone even know what that means anymore?

Therumancer:

Yopaz:
I rarely agree this much with him. Seriously, why would anyone get upset over a person being so desperate for your attention that she pretends to like what you do just to get attention? It seems like a strange thing to get upset over, but I don't know.

You, like Jim, miss the point entirely. It's not girls wanting to fit in or being "desperate for your attention" it's girls out to manipulate nerds, either for their own ends, or being paid to do so by someone else (like in the case of booth babes and the like).

I wrote a more detailed answer (phrased to aim it directly at Jim) earlier, but I imagine it was too long for a lot of people, and also not what they'd want to hear.

I'm sure this happens to you all the time so it's a really big deal, but having never seen someone I can't see this being widespread.

Of course manipulation of anyone is a problem, but are those who pretend to like games any different than any other kind of manipulation? Why is it specific focus on those who pretend to like games rather than those who manipulate in any other way?

Now if you say they are no different, explain why you draw a line separating those. Why is it fake nerd girls rather than manipulative behaviour in full that gets you riled up?

Beautiful End:
-snip!-

Yeah, I also work for GameStop and I see what you're talking about a lot. My girlfriend also works for the company and I see her getting quizzed all the time. It's pretty stupid, and sad, because I've seen more guys working for GameStop that know less about what they're talking about than gals. And yet there are guys that will walk straight past our female employees if they see there's a man available to help them. =/

I wouldn't really call it an "outrage", I just hate being lied to. Surely women do as well, do they not?

I find it f**king hilarious that the gaming community be so inconsistent with its causes. 'Is feminism good' threads are a regular manifestation of boy-nerd intellectualism, and when criticism of booth babes occurred, a chorus of 'who cares? Let them do what they want; they are adults and scantily clad women rock!' erupted. And yet NOW, the community is oh so offended about supposedly 'fake nerds' and not just any fake nerds, but the attractive female ones.

Oh for Pete's sake! It looks like some kind of, 'she only didn't date me because she's a bitch' rubbish. For starters, it's a witch hunt which forces innocent people to prove their nerdiness to a self appointed gatekeeper elite. Secondly, it's a pissing contest, anatomically really only a male thing, for nerdom, very similar to the old favorites like 'casual vs hardcore', the 'real fan vs new fan' and the 'elite vs newb'. All I can say is, grow the f**k up.

EDIT: Oh and people likening this to 'weeding out the posers', why is it girls getting the weeding but for a male, one's nerdiness is seldom called into question?

Oh and I hope that the guy who proposed at the end of this video is marrying a REAL nerd girl, not some fake one whose self esteem is so low that she has to slum it as a nerd to get any male attention. Or is she trying to gate crash an exclusive and elite party, by pulling the wool over the eyes of male nerds everywhere in some kind of malicious and Machiavellian gambit for a purpose only Satan could fathom?

Sheo_Dagana:

mrhateful:

Sheo_Dagana:
snip

Its hard to explain why they are so offensive but I tried to give an example 2 posts up.

Yeah, none of which seemed to make sense to me. You acknowledge men can do the same thing, but only give examples about women. I'm not sure what you're hang up is, but it seems to go deeper than booth babes.

Okay someone posted a youtube video called "You're Not such a Nerd: Commodification of Nerd and Gamer Sub-culture", and it explained perfectly why it is so upsetting, so while I might not able to explain why, this video should at least help you.

2xDouble:
I wouldn't really call it an "outrage", I just hate being lied to. Surely women do as well, do they not?

Oh really? The common retort is that gamer guys 'hate being lied to'. I have to laugh! Nobody is 'lying' to you, any more than everybody lies to you every single day. You're being lied to constantly and consistently by everybody you've ever known. What's the threshold or context at which this becomes impossible to tolerate and thus raises one's ire?

Is it borrowing money from you, promising to take it back and never doing so? Assuring you that he didn't really bang the girl you've had a crush on since forever? Telling you that it was Tom who stole your rarest Pokemon card, when it was really he himself who took it? Oh no, the real lie is some girl who's possibly overstating how much she loves, enjoys or identifies with this particular sub culture which believe to be 'yours'.

By whose judgement? Yours? Pete over there? I think you'll find that one person's 'ubergeekdom' is another person's 'lame'. So who considers you fake right at this moment? Probably nobody, because you're not a 'hawt girl'.

CaptainChip:
I would also like to point out that people who usually hate "fake geek girls" also hate guys who do the same thing. It's just that you don't see it from guys as much. It's really not a sexism issue as much as it's made to seem.

Well, the problem is that people are trying to look at the phenomena in a vaccuum rather than the behaviors that have created this problem. It's not about nerds being concerned over someone intruding on their property, or being "poseurs" or anything of the sort like Jim and a lot of people seem to think. The simple facts are:

#1: Nerds are by definition rejects, it's a very broad label that includes a lot of people who are rejected for a lot of differant reasons. An attractive girl, especially one with a solid peer circle and social life, by definition cannot be a nerd. A lot of the problem comes with the label being used to point to a specific set of interests that are graually breaking into the mainstream.

It sounds odd, but the issue is that when some hot girl says she's "one of you" when she's clearly not, that's a problem.

#2: The reason it's a problem is because 99% of the time, the hot girl trying to pass as a nerd and buddy up to nerds is doing so in order to get something out of them. Sure, she might have some knowlege of fandom, in whatever area, but at the end of the day she's after your wallet and/or whatever she can squeeze out of you. Nerds being targeted because they tend to be desperate for female attention, and prefer to deal with people at a distance, which is something a scammer is more than willing to oblige.

See, your typical nerd girl will buddy up to some nerds, get attention for being pretty and interested geeky subjects, hang out a bit, and then inevitably run into all kinds of problems, approaching her friends whom she flirts with to buy her things ranging from games, to computer parts, to MMO subscription cards, to pretty much anything else you can think of. A lof of this stuff winds up being purchused through services like Amazon.com and then goes directly onto Ebay.

I've run into situations in MMO guilds and such where there have been like 3-4 guys all paying for the subscription for some female player, only to get all POed when they eventually realize they had all been giving her time codes, and she's been selling the extra ones she's not using. Another case I know of was one girl who needed a new sound card and a new camera and managed to beg them off a few people, she wound up with like 4 cameras and no less than 11 sound cards (some used) most of which went directly to Ebay. If you check around you'll find the geek culture is absolutly FULL of stories like this, most of which are true. There is a reason why there is so much hatred directly at "camwhores" by geek culture.

-

The bottom line comes down to point #1. When your dealing with hardcore nerds/fanboys acceptance generally means being someone obviously rejected by the rest of society. The much mocked "900 pound land whale" is generally more accepted by nerds simply because you can understand why the fatty is into the nerd culture, and immersing themselves in escapism so much.

Most nerds would really like there to be hot nerd girls out there, but understand the concept makes little or no sense when examined, and there have been so many burns over the years, that even if one DOES exist, she kind of needs to prove herself. To be honest it's less about rejection due to a lack of encyclopediac knowlege of nerdy subjects, but a lack
of shared societal rejection. It's not really sexist or personal when you get down to it, nerds are generally paranoid (socially) being what they are, and are people who have been exploited heavily, or know those who have been.

As one guy I know put it, "where were all the hot nerd girls before gaming went mainstream/casual, and when things like Amazon and Ebay didn't exist". A valid point that can be made by elder geeks, sure the hot, nerdy, girl stereotype was around in Hollywood, but in reality you didn't see people claiming to be them because there was no value in the knowlege of geek trivia, and it really wasn't possible to run large scale online scams.

There have literally been girls who have basically employed themselves by logging onto the computer, making doe eyes at desperate nerds, and then re-selling the gifts. WTF does anyone expect.

-

For those who read this far, I'll also say that when it comes to cosplay, that's a slightly differant thing. In general booth babes and those who are honest about being there for promotional reasons tend to get treated a bit better than those claiming to be fans. The reason being that it's a common technique at cons, renfaires, etc... to hire girls to help make the scene and promote their wares by basically walking around in very good costumes involving items and materials they happen to sell. Nerds in paticular get upset with the deception more than other people might react to "Party Girls" being used the same way in other venues.

In a lot of cases though it should be understood that the "hot cosplay girls" that are for real aren't pretending to be nerds. Oftentimes they come in groups, with friends, boyfriends, etc.. around. They are pretty much showing off, and just presenting themselves as having an interest a bit beyond the casual, not as genuine nerds, or cultural paragons (so much as it's worth being a paragon of this culture). The biggest issue being that such girls aren't usually trying to buddy up to you, or make social contact, to which the typical nerd response is quite understandable "what's her angle?".

See, I find it kind of amusing that Jim is addressing this issue the way he is, because honest he seems pretty bright, and if some hot girl was showing interest in him (online or otherwise) I'd imagine he'd be pretty suspicious.

I think this may just be my favorite video yet. I'm so sick of guys who flatter themselves into thinking we're all just making it up for their attention. I've had to deal with this several times myself, and let me tell you: it's not attractive, it's not cute, it's not funny, and all they're doing is making themselves look bad.

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