Murder in Dragonborn Manor

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That is horrible parenting... And I strongly suspect it isn't real but just a joke.

Quaade:
As long as no physical or mental abuse is taking place let people raise their children as they damn well please.

Isn't this mental abuse though? But honestly such a thing does not warrant outsider intervention because of this wonderful thing called "moving out" and "not answering your crazy parent's phone calls".
Unless the child is very young or the "mental abuse" is severe (this is pretty mild).

... I can't help but thinking how if he played on a PC he could undo all the damage using the console is a matter of minutes.

taltamir:
That is horrible parenting... And I strongly suspect it isn't real but just a joke.

Quaade:
As long as no physical or mental abuse is taking place let people raise their children as they damn well please.

Isn't this mental abuse though? But honestly such a thing does not warrant outsider intervention because of this wonderful thing called "moving out" and "not answering your crazy parent's phone calls".
Unless the child is very young or the "mental abuse" is severe (this is pretty mild).

... I can't help but thinking how if he played on a PC he could undo all the damage using the console is a matter of minutes.

No, it's not, it's good parenting, learning that there are consequences to your actions or lack there of is one of the most important things you can teach someone. Without knowing there can be consequences there can also be no responsability and without learning about responsability you are going to end up in a very bad place, either physically or emotionally as an adult. That's not speculation, that's a fact.

Kids, especially teenagers like to push the boundaries, if they didn't, they'd never grow up, or seperate themselves from their parents and be able to make their own life, it's in our biological makeup to do that.
However, a lot of parents today are trying to be friends with their children first and parents seconds. This means they shield them from the consequences of their actions, which is fine if you want your child to be your best friend (which is all kinds of wrong in the first place) untill one day the kids become old enough to be let loose on the world.
Then when the kids who presume themselves adults are out in the world they are met by a harsh reality that noone has prepared them for, least of all their parents.

A lot of young people today are facing real problems fitting into a work environment, relationships and general life because their parents weren't parents first and their friends second.
And from the lasseiz-faire attitude I see expressed in this thread I have a great fear that they belong to this very generation and will only impart their own experience into their own children and make it worse.

Look, I don't remember half of the shit I did as a kid where I showed a distinct lack of respect, responsability or just generally misbehaved, I do remember my parents coming down on me when I did though and explained and/or punished as necessary so I learned from it.
Allready now I can almost hear people who read this go "Oh, he was punished as a child, he must be screwed up" and yes, my dad did slap me once, and I resented him for it untill I got older and realised that the thing I got the slap for really did warrent it as it was a -very- bad thing I was doing. And no, I'm not screwed up, I have the most loving and supportive parents in the world and I don't resent them for teaching me when I was wrong, I'm glad they were my parents first and friends second, I had friends when I grew up, I didn't need my parents amongst them.

imperfect number:

In the case of the father shooting the laptop, HE DISCHARGED A FIREARM. I might not know the context, but I do know about guns and gun safety.
So yeah, the father was almost certainly acting in an irresponsible and foolish manner, because there was a problem that did not involve his or a loved ones personal safety and he responded by shooting a gun.

You really should look up the entire story as it's a lot less black and white than you make it out to be.

He did it in a safe and responsible manner, in a field, far from everyone and shooting down into the ground, nobody but moles and the molemen were in danger there.
And someone was in danger, his daughter who was moving further and further out on a tangent of plain disrespect, rudeness and cavalier attitude and in her own words, needed the wakeup call and was actually happy for it as it got her thinking about her recent actions and their consequences.

Quaade:
No, it's not, it's good parenting, learning that there are consequences to your actions or lack there of is one of the most important things you can teach someone. Without knowing there can be consequences there can also be no responsability and without learning about responsability you are going to end up in a very bad place, either physically or emotionally as an adult. That's not speculation, that's a fact.

You confuse intent with results. The intent is to teach the child that there are consequences for their actions. The result of THIS kind of action is to sow distrust towards the parent and not do anything to tie the punishment to the "misdeed".

Children do need discipline but done incorrectly it can do more harm then good.

I have seen plenty of people whose parents had intents like those you describe in your long wall of text rant yet which completely messed up their children instead of getting the intended result

Just gonna say... Grades can be changed... But murdering someone's wife and then overriding the previous save... that shit's permanent.

Also, don't set a standard for your kids that you don't uphold yourself (Erin's comment about language).

Makes the teenage years a bitch when they start to understand the concept of hypocrisy.

taltamir:

You confuse intent with results. The intent is to teach the child that there are consequences for their actions. The result of THIS kind of action is to sow distrust towards the parent and not do anything to tie the punishment to the "misdeed".

Children do need discipline but done incorrectly it can do more harm then good.

I have seen plenty of people whose parents had intents like those you describe in your long wall of text rant yet which completely messed up their children instead of getting the intended result

And you confuse taking action=abuse with reality.

And if doing something like this can sow distrust towards the parents then there are underlying issues that are far more severe than merely slipping grades.
Either something like this has happened more than once and it's a continous circle of abuse and degradation or the child/teen in question have come so attached to the virtual reality that it's substituting the actual reality.

TheDrunkNinja:
Just gonna say... Grades can be changed... But murdering someone's wife and then overriding the previous save... that shit's permanent.

Also, don't set a standard for your kids that you don't uphold yourself (Erin's comment about language).

Makes the teenage years a bitch when they start to understand the concept of hypocrisy.

This, that right there scares the living daylights out of me.

That attitude is horrifying, that you are equating the deletion of a digital entity consisting of scripted A.I. behaviour with real murder.
I mean, I could understand if it was concerning a self aware A.I. that could never be replaced or regained since that would constitute a serious philosophical dilemma about ethics and life.
Where the cord snaps for me is that this is merely data that equals time invested, it can be regained and replaced by another playtrough, it's not permanent nor is it irreplacable, it's time, simple time which by all accounts the person in question should be advised on how to divide between areas more efficiently.

Quaade:

TheDrunkNinja:
Just gonna say... Grades can be changed... But murdering someone's wife and then overriding the previous save... that shit's permanent.

Also, don't set a standard for your kids that you don't uphold yourself (Erin's comment about language).

Makes the teenage years a bitch when they start to understand the concept of hypocrisy.

This, that right there scares the living daylights out of me.

That attitude is horrifying, that you are equating the deletion of a digital entity consisting of scripted A.I. behaviour with real murder.
I mean, I could understand if it was concerning a self aware A.I. that could never be replaced or regained since that would constitute a serious philosophical dilemma about ethics and life.
Where the cord snaps for me is that this is merely data that equals time invested, it can be regained and replaced by another playtrough, it's not permanent nor is it irreplacable, it's time, simple time which by all accounts the person in question should be advised on how to divide between areas more efficiently.

The fuck? Take a joke, man.

Then make your joke more obvious, I can't hear the intonation of your voice, only read the tone of your post, and that it was followed by something, that is very real and sound advice makes it very easy to misunderstand, which I obviously did.

My dad innocently throughout my childhood kept system resetting our family PC which had saved files for various PC games I played (those management and construction sims ones which are a huge time sink). It broke my heart each time and it made me furious. Likewise when he innocently shut down the PC when I was downloading a huge game client over-night (to play with my friends) before PCs remembered download progress.

So, given the reaction that gave me. Imagine the reaction a child would give if they knew it was deliberate. Heads would roll.

Quaade:
Then make your joke more obvious, I can't hear the intonation of your voice, only read the tone of your post, and that it was followed by something, that is very real and sound advice makes it very easy to misunderstand, which I obviously did.

The comic is named "Murder in Dragonborn Manor", and you accosted me for no other reason than using the term "murder" when describing the death of a video game NPC. I don't need intonation for what is already obvious.

Imagine that instead of a video game this was an intricate model boat that the "child" constructed... "hi son, while you were away I snuck into your room and spent a good amount of time meticulously destroying it beyond repair" is just psychotic behavior for a parent.

Issues (from most to least severe):
1. The parent snuck into the child room to do the deed while they were away instead of openly declaring a punishment.
2. The parent destroyed something the child spent a lot of effort and time creating.
3. The parent destroyed something rather then confiscating it until the child changes their behavior.
4. The punishment is overly severe relative to the misdeed.

The strawmen is that anyone who said this is bad parenting only speaks of issue #4.

Apollo45:

So what're your thoughts on kids looking up porn? When I did it my dad came down and literally wiped the entire hard drive of the computer. All of my savegames, all of my time spent customizing things, all of that, down the drain. But I did something that was not allowed and was punished for it. This isn't half as devastating as that was, which I believe fits the crime. The message being sent to the kid is pretty clear; if you're going to spend your time on video games, you need to get good grades. School comes first, which is always true as a kid. Once they get that done then they can focus on games. Until then, this is to show you how easily I can not only take those games away but make the time you put in to them worthless. Makes complete sense to me, and seems entirely reasonable

Yeah, well, this leads into a debate when kids are old enough to own a computer/TV.
I was only allowed to have my own PC at age 16 - so all that porn stuff was OK then.
My parents, too, had pretty strict ideas about "school first", too, so I was grounded a few times and the power cords of my computer and TV got taken away until I learned my lesson.
Messing around with the savegames, though, and deleting hard drives still seems too radical to me.
My parents - and these as well, I think - operate on the basis of "You chose what you spend your time with, son."
Stipulations about school and porn notwithstanding, when you then turn around and, by your actions, tell your kid that
"I am going to invalidate your choice retro-actively by destroying what you have built." then that makes you look like a hypocrit and undermines your authority and believability as a parent.
Let's take, for example, a kid that choses to play soccer instead of video games. You punish that kid by grounding him for a week, right?
You don't destroy his efforts completely, like, say, break his legg, or something.
If your leg breaks / Xbox dies that's just cosmic randomness. You can't harbor anger towards an accident.
You can, however, harbor intense anger at people, especially when they say one thing, then turn around and do another.

Stockpile Thomas!? Jesus, why not just delete their save file cos unless they were right at the end odds are it's best to restart.

Funny I thought murder was the standard means of divorce in that game

I'd rather hold my kid's savegame in ransom on a usb stick if they fail to do their chores... or the good old "if you want todays wifi-password, do your chores"

outright deleting things or wrecking savegames - that's IMO on par with parents who throw out their kids toys or break them, as a means of punishment

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