The Big Picture: Original Geek Girl

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Original Geek Girl

In this installment MovieBob shows us the creation of Supergirl.

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Excited to see where this run of videos takes us. I've never really known much about Supergirl outside of what happens in Bruce Timm's Superman:TAS and later Justice League. Thanks BOB!

Oh man. Nancy Drew but can benchpress a continent. :D

Does anyone ever get the feeling this whole "fake geek girl" and "booth babes need to go away" bullsh!t is just basically people trying to be (for lack of a better term) politically correct by (acting as if they are)attempting to root the sexism out of geek culture, without losing any of the sexy that comes with it?

So I have to ask: Seeing as my only knowledge of this apparent 'fake geek girl' thing comes from Jim/Bob/Critical Miss and I seem to have avoided seeing it anywhere else, just how deep is my head buried in the sand?

And I hadn't thought of using comics as a means to view societies view of women through the decades. Admittedly there are probably better ways of doing it but I'm definitely interested in seeing the next episode and having it summed up for me - I'm far too lazy to go back and read through sixty years worth of comics. I'll let Bob do it for me.

Wait, geek girls are a problem to some? Who are these misogynistic assholes who are complaining about this?

Also, the Superman-as-the-ultimate-good-guy has been kept around mostly. In fact, the modern Batman-Superman dynamic involves Superman as the upright good guy to the point of being compulsive (Batman's nickname for Superman? "Boy Scout") while Batman is a utilitarian guy who pretty much uses any means necessary (except for his few major rules, such as no killing) to get the job done.

"Father" knows best, but girls just want to have fun :P

I can understand him not trusting her keep their secret (I mean no woman is more reliable than a pair of glasses and a comb-over) but putting her up for adoption? Jerk.

image
This whole thing was started by the Mary sue blog and then got out of hand.

Look not every girl who enjoys geek culture or parts of it is not nessisarly a geek or a prented one who is trying to get attention. Its the same for guys as well.

However this whole anti fake geek girl thing proably steams from things like Booth babes or other host of geek related media who are there for sex appeal alone. Remeber when pax didnt allow booth babes or at least made them have to know about the game in question they were supporting. Same kind of idea.

Read the #1 on this list
http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-awful-ways-internet-tainting-everything-else_p2/

This should be interesting. It's certainly one area where my own geeky knowledge falls short, so I look forward to being filled in; it sounds like a bit of culture history I should know about.

(Please, for the love of all that's good and holy, don't let this become another 700-plus post argument about the geek-girl thing...)

let not talk about fake geek girls i had enough of the topic.

i am interested in watching the rests of the parts to hear about the history of super girl and power girl
i have a mild curiosity of comics but i am not going to touch the convoluted mess that is comics with a ten foot pole

i will just stick with the tv shows like teen titans, justice league, and most currently young justice. recently i finished seeing all the released episodes now i wait for the mid-season hiatus to end. something big happen in the most recent episode but the hiatus left me hanging. it i kinda annoying

I'll give my take on it at least.
I'm not afraid of people getting into my shit. I actually actively try to get people interested in my shit. My fantasies, the comics and books I like, the anime that I still like now that my demented otaku phase from high school is over. I enjoy introducing people to the stuff I like because I feel the stuff I like deserves to be liked and enjoyed by people.
The thing I hate is when stuff I like becomes a fad and people are into it because it's the "in thing" to be, and not for it's merits. This encourages garbage to be made in imitation of the stuff I like, but it ultimately shows how little it understands what's good about the stuff I like. I remember when the anime fad took over. Lots of people were going on about how into anime they were, but all they talked about was shit like Naruto, or stuff of similar quality. But you ask them about Mamoru Oshii or Hayao Miyazaki, or the people who have earned their places as the best in the industry and they know nothing about any of that, because they aren't really interested in anime, they just want to appear like they do because it's popular. It's all purely superficial.
Surely, you, Bob, understand that. I mean, look at what Hollywood trying to mainstreamize geek culture did to Star Trek.
But I take some comfort in knowing that fads come and go. Sooner or later, the vapid, identity-free populous will find something else they want to imitate. The poseurs will go away sooner or later, because they always do. BUT! Some people will stay, because, while they may have initially gotten into it for superficial reasons, some of them will find that they genuinely like the stuff and that's a net positive. Provided, of course, we don't frighten them off.
So, even though I find fake geeks (men and women, let's not kid ourselves by pretending that only the girls fake it) annoying, why are we not trying to bring them into our group? Nothing will scare the fakes away faster than us trying to get them interested in something that they'll quickly find they're not really interested in and, as a result of our trying, we'll bring new blood into the fold who may, as initial outsiders, have new ideas to lay on the table. That's a good thing, is it not?

Excellent. It's been too long since comics were weird. Looking forward to next week.

Callate:

(Please, for the love of all that's good and holy, don't let this become another 700-plus post argument about the geek-girl thing...)

Well this is the Escapist, and it is Bob. (Not saying I have a problem with him)

Alright, I'm going to do this and probably end up getting banned for it, but I'll run it anyway.

1) Bob, have you ever considered that maybe this whole "fake geek girl" thing isn't directed at the women but the concept of what they are doing? Consider the fact that you have an entire subculture of people who for decades have been the butt of jokes, torment, and ridicule so much that we they made revenge movies for us, and now that said subculture is in the mainstream, they are not allowed to have some resentment towards people who are only getting into the scene to be "mainstream" and "with the times". You have said in your videos that you would side with Magneto if given super human abilities because of how you have been treated through life, yet you're ok with people coming and and simply pretending to like things? What if it was guys? My issue with it is that you're essentially white-knighting because these are women who are being "attacked". If it was guys, no one would turn a damn head.

2) Maybe the writers had supergirl getting into a number of social issues because, ya know, she's 15? That's what fifteen year old teenagers do, they get into trouble, over their head, test the waters etc. Again, not sexist, this is simply what happens.

There said my piece. Ban me, report me, do what you want, I won't be responding to this.

The orphanage!? What the hell superman?

As I find it, within the culture, the term "Nerd", or "Geek" is almost an achievement (And we know how much we love those). So when a hot/cute girl uses the term, what seems to be (in my interpetation) the respons from guys is basically:

"You didn't earn to call youself that! It takes years of social isolation, going through 1000 of episodes og crap anime, watching and quoting sci-fi movies from the 80's!!!"

I don't call myself a cheerleader because I have seen all the "Bring it on"-movies (yes all 5, start laughing), Also I'm a big guy. But I can cheer, and lead a crowd in cheering, so technically I do have the right to use that title about me.
I don't because that would mock the girls that use all their time training to be cheerleaders.

What it all comes down to is semantics. I like girls in geekculture, the more the merrier, but I do see why some people see the "fake-geek-girl" as condescending towards what they see as a title they have worked to earn.

My name is Casper, and that's the big comment ;)

Kinda going off topic, don't you think?

You start off with a rant about people supposedly vying for attention, then switch gears to the origins of a comic book character.

Watched about the first third and skipped the rest, you are a bit late on this one bob

My problem with fake geek girls is they get my hopes up for geeky conversation and then dash them quite expertly. Outward appearance becomes harder to use as a cultural identifier. I like showing my stuff to other people, but I go to geeks to GET shown stuff.

Also, isn't that kind of "image for the sake of fitting in" thing completely antithetical to the idea of integrity....? Don't know what bob was getting at there.

Eh, all in all, authenticity of character is not a new problem. I reckon people have a right to annoyed that people are wearing the label before having the substance.

EDIT: Why is it chicks? Probably because they're rarer in gaming culture? There's more disappointment when the label is a facade and it makes it more difficult to find women who actually play games (unfortunately, in my experience, like male geeks, the girls seem to tend to be the quiet types so they're harder to run into).

zombie711:

This whole thing was started by the Mary sue blog and then got out of hand.

Look not every girl who enjoys geek culture or parts of it is not nessisarly a geek or a prented one who is trying to get attention. Its the same for guys as well.

However this whole anti fake geek girl thing proably steams from things like Booth babes or other host of geek related media who are there for sex appeal alone. Remeber when pax didnt allow booth babes or at least made them have to know about the game in question they were supporting. Same kind of idea.

Read the #1 on this list
http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-awful-ways-internet-tainting-everything-else_p2/

\

.

zombie711:
image
This whole thing was started by the Mary sue blog and then got out of hand.

Look not every girl who enjoys geek culture or parts of it is not nessisarly a geek or a prented one who is trying to get attention. Its the same for guys as well.

However this whole anti fake geek girl thing proably steams from things like Booth babes or other host of geek related media who are there for sex appeal alone. Remeber when pax didnt allow booth babes or at least made them have to know about the game in question they were supporting. Same kind of idea.

Read the #1 on this list
http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-awful-ways-internet-tainting-everything-else_p2/

But they're just actors. Instead of going after the girls, you need to go after the men who put her there. Those marketing execs (who are largely male) are the ones who are hijacking the culture to turn a profit, not the girls themselves.

Seriously guys it's called a job, they're doing a job do you also think strippers are actually into you instead of your money?

You want to stop the complaining just get real Geek Girls instead of hot models. You'll never get complaints about fake geek girls again.

image

zombie711:
However this whole anti fake geek girl thing proably steams from things like Booth babes or other host of geek related media who are there for sex appeal alone. Remeber when pax didnt allow booth babes or at least made them have to know about the game in question they were supporting. Same kind of idea.

Read the #1 on this list
http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-awful-ways-internet-tainting-everything-else_p2/

Sexy ladies have been part and parcel of science fiction and fantasy for over a century. All those SF series from the 60s and 70s cast attractive young ladies in tight or revealing outfits. Comic books have done the same since the Golden Age. Superficial sex appeal is as old as the community is.

Now that some women want to embrace that heritage under their own agency, to express their enjoyment of and participate fully in the subculture, or showcase their creative skills, or maybe earn a living through modelling or marketing or selling their skills/products, or some combination of these--now some male geeks have a problem with it? Sorry, that's all about their infantile desire to keep cooties out of the sandbox like Bob said. If you don't like it, don't pay attention to it.

I'm really fucking sick of the whining about the whining about the geek girl thing.

JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT. None of you are making arguments that haven't been made before and none of you are insightful for pointing it out.

I think getting mad at hot cosplayers is silly, but I do get irritated at the kind of people who post shit on Facebook like "OMG IM SUCH A NERD. I play video games sooooooo much!" and then turn around and call E3 stupid and boring without even knowing what it is.

The reason I get irritated is not because of some evil plot, but because it dilutes, confuses and badly misrepresents the culture I know and love. Though in my case, that goes for guys as well.

But yeah. Interesting stuff about Super Girl.

Power girl next week?

My body is ready.

Interesting stuff as always. Though I would offer a counter-point to the first point made in the video. While I do feel it's stupid to try to out someone as "fake geek", I'm not so eager to apply a sexual motivation to their actions. There's a very good reason that geeks don't want beautiful people biting their style. A subculture made popular by the mainstream eventually is sterilized and watered down to be fit for the masses. A more paradoxical way to put it is that if something becomes special to everyone, it's ultimately special to no one.

As a parallel, I would point you to other subcultures. Look at punk rock. From its point of origin, punk has become excessively mainstream. It started small and early, with movies like Valley Girl, which depicts the "punk" music as fashionable new wave, in direct contrast to the awesome punk bands that were actually making a splash in LA at the time (Dead Kennedys, Black Flag, The Germs, etc.). It ends with the MTV punk bands from the late 90's and into the early 2000's with 25 year old, attractive men singing about girls like they're an overweight teenager (all while making much bank).

It happens all the time. Subculture is misinterpreted by the mainstream and/or by people the mainstream pays attention to. The mainstream reaches more people who are naive to the roots of a culture, thus relaying the misinterpretation. It creates this negative spiral that results in a separation of a subculture. Subcultures within subcultures, etc. You don't believe the thing you love can be co-opted by people you don't want to be associated with? Look at the skinhead culture that started in the late 60's. A non-political culture that encouraged unity through shared love of reggae music and roots in the working class. Yet, because of more media attention, racist skinheads that began to prop up later in the scene's history now are all anybody thinks about when they hear the term "skinhead".

However, I am in agreement that it's uncalled for. Cultural gatekeepers are something that every subculture has had. However, they NEVER stop assimilation from occurring. The best thing you can do is the reverse approach and engage people who don't know about the subject. You meet a woman who's dressed like one of your favorite characters, but doesn't know "the lore" like you do? Talk with her. Engage in conversation. It's more likely that you'll be able to drop some bits of knowledge. She may walk away more educated about the medium/character/lore and you don't look like an asshole. Everybody is better for it.

RJ Dalton:
I'll give my take on it at least.
I'm not afraid of people getting into my shit. I actually actively try to get people interested in my shit. My fantasies, the comics and books I like, the anime that I still like now that my demented otaku phase from high school is over. I enjoy introducing people to the stuff I like because I feel the stuff I like deserves to be liked and enjoyed by people.
The thing I hate is when stuff I like becomes a fad and people are into it because it's the "in thing" to be, and not for it's merits. This encourages garbage to be made in imitation of the stuff I like, but it ultimately shows how little it understands what's good about the stuff I like. I remember when the anime fad took over. Lots of people were going on about how into anime they were, but all they talked about was shit like Naruto, or stuff of similar quality. But you ask them about Mamoru Oshii or Hayao Miyazaki, or the people who have earned their places as the best in the industry and they know nothing about any of that, because they aren't really interested in anime, they just want to appear like they do because it's popular. It's all purely superficial.
Surely, you, Bob, understand that. I mean, look at what Hollywood trying to mainstreamize geek culture did to Star Trek.
But I take some comfort in knowing that fads come and go. Sooner or later, the vapid, identity-free populous will find something else they want to imitate. The poseurs will go away sooner or later, because they always do. BUT! Some people will stay, because, while they may have initially gotten into it for superficial reasons, some of them will find that they genuinely like the stuff and that's a net positive. Provided, of course, we don't frighten them off.
So, even though I find fake geeks (men and women, let's not kid ourselves by pretending that only the girls fake it) annoying, why are we not trying to bring them into our group? Nothing will scare the fakes away faster than us trying to get them interested in something that they'll quickly find they're not really interested in and, as a result of our trying, we'll bring new blood into the fold who may, as initial outsiders, have new ideas to lay on the table. That's a good thing, is it not?

Naruto ain't shit.

More enjoyable than Spirit Away or Howl's Moving Castle...

I for one welcome the cooties into the sanbox, perfume smells infinitely better than the usual sweaty balls.

Yeah, I was wondering if he was going to mention Power Girl, because... yeah...

Personally I think Power girl is the best version of Super girl in the entire DC multi-verse and I'm not just saying that because she has the biggest breast in the DC line-up.

I especially loved how DC finally gave her a real back story in the infinite crisis series.

image

I don't want to possibly spoil anything for next week so I'll end there.

BTW Lois Lane played Superwoman back in the Siegel & Shuster days.
image
but it was in a coma dream, sigh.

OH! Am I the only one that finds it weird that DC changed it's logo to DC Comics... even though the C in DC stands for COMICS; Making it "Detective Comics, Comics".

Yay a "comics are weird" episode. They are your most interesting ones, with the film ones being the least (there either stuff i've seen or stuff your ranting about not being more successful) and that's actual film ones, not the film industry ones they are very intersesting too.

Thank you moviebob when I was watching the jimquistion I was waiting for him to point out that its bizarre that people consider fake geek girl if they exist(which they don't) to be a bad thing now for my thoughts on the rest of this episode.

hooray comics are weird is back also hooray for 50 sexism even the man of steel isn't immune.

the superman is boring because he has to be a role model supergirl is more interesting sounds a lot like the problem Mickey mouse had when Donald duck came along just without the sexism.

Also power girl I remember her from the loading screen from dc universe online my nickname for her was cleavage lady.
the hooray 50 sexism part was sarcasm btw.

It just occurred to me that the "fake geek girl" argument only makes sense to people with the same emotional development as your average high-school student (regardless of biological age). Cliques, authenticity, and crap like that stops mattering once you grow up and realize that the only people whose opinion matters are those who employ you or lend you money.

This realization makes me feel immensely better (in the sense that I now understand why I don't understand) and incredibly sad (in the sense that the world in aggregate is pretty much a group of emotionally stunted teenagers).

The late great comedian Richard Jenni one said, "Men and women are both full of crap. That's why I stopped hanging out with those assholes." Speaking as an eternally jaded and pessimistic nerd, I suspect almost everyone of either gender is looking for a way to screw over their fellow human being. While I don't entirely buy into the "fake nerd girl" thing, I can at least see what these "nerd boys" are griping about, even if they can't quite explain it properly.

As far as I can see it, and my personal opinion, is that the "fake nerd girls" (or FNGs for the sake of this argument) are a problem only if they're using their "in" with unsuspecting schmucks to bilk them out of funds. It's not like these specific women want to be part of our culture but rather see lonely, geeky guys as an easy mark. Granted, I think such women make up about 1-5% of the people we're talking about, as much as "gold diggers" are representative of women as a whole, which is an incredibly small percentage.

For the most part, this concern over the FNGs is pretty silly, but I can at least see the other side of the argument. While stupid, I personally think Bob and Jim are acting almost as childish as they the people they're railing against are with their arguments, and both seem to think far too highly of humanity as a whole. All I'm saying is, can we all admit that every segment of the population (yes, including women) have a fair degree of assholes in it and no one is group is deserving of a lack of criticism.

Murlin:
Does anyone ever get the feeling this whole "fake geek girl" and "booth babes need to go away" bullsh!t is just basically people trying to be (for lack of a better term) politically correct by (acting as if they are)attempting to root the sexism out of geek culture, without losing any of the sexy that comes with it?

Uh, that is what happening, I'm still waiting for this shit to end, as it's annoying now. Watching a group trying to say we're not sexist, and goes out their way to prove, it and just ends up pathetic. I just stop caring at this point. I kind of made it worse, by seeing tumblir crowd. Oh god, why did I see that.

craddoke:
the only people whose opinion matters are those who employ you or lend you money

Untrue, but if you believe that, I encourage you to take your opinions elsewhere, to people that you employ or lend money to.

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