The Big Picture: Original Geek Girl

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Putting aside the Supergirl thing for a second, my bafflement with the whole Fake Geek Girl thing is the same thing Bob mentioned. Why the FUCK is a bunch of hot girls pretending to be interested in geek stuff a bad thing? Or does this get back to the whole "I was into it before it was cool" thing except with sexism because those involved haven't matured past the age of 10.

As for Supergirl, wow I had no idea she had such a deep history. But as with most of these Comics Are Weird episodes, I learn a lot because I don't read comics.

craddoke:
It just occurred to me that the "fake geek girl" argument only makes sense to people with the same emotional development as your average high-school student (regardless of biological age). Cliques, authenticity, and crap like that stops mattering once you grow up and realize that the only people whose opinion matters are those who employ you or lend you money.

This realization makes me feel immensely better (in the sense that I now understand why I don't understand) and incredibly sad (in the sense that the world in aggregate is pretty much a group of emotionally stunted teenagers).

The world functions in tribalism. Not changing at all. That highschool clique was nothing more than tribes, and as you get older you just end up getting into a new tribe, or your tribe just gets bigger. Fake geek girl, was just making fun of the whole fake geek in general. No two shits was giving about it till someone made it a big deal. Seriously the fake geek girl, or fake geek in general is nothing more than saying your a fucking casual, stop polluting my shit with your casualness.

Ugh, I feel terrible contributing to the 'fake geek girl' discussion which is overwhelming a genuinely interesting comic book episode, but I have to say, I feel somewhat irritated by the accusations that the people opposed to 'fake geek girls' are insecure, misogynistic men who resent women entering their culture, when the vast majority of complaints I have heard about such girls have come from female friends of mine.

In the end, nobody likes a poser of any gender. And of course nobody enjoys it when 'their' group or special thing becomes mainstream, because then it stops being 'their' thing. This strikes me as less sexist and more akin to the backlash of 'hardcore' gamers against the 'casual.'

I don't get the "fake geek girl" thing, it's like some people have never grown out of the "girls have cooties" stage. And speaking as an actual geek girl, I find such thoughts to be, well, dumb.

Also, nice insight into the beginnings of Super Girl (love the "Like Nancy Drew, but she can bench press continents" description), can't wait for part 2!

Oh my god thank you Bob. I've been needing to learn the basics of Supergirl for quite some time since my girlfriend grew up in a comics-centric household and Supergirl is quite possibly her favorite character, and I know absolutely nothing about her. Been meaning to read up but never have gotten around to it.

Ah PeeGee, DC's answer to Deadpool. It's kinda hard not to love her, despite her pretty goofy design with the boob window.

I'm still reading the New 52 reboot of Supergirl I really like it. It's probably my favourite after Batman's court of owls storyline.

I used to have a Supergirl costume when I was little. It was awesome. I did accidentally run head first into a rosebush once while wearing it and end up in the hospital though... :s

Meanwhile at the Legion of Doom! Bob, Grey and Jim co-ordinate a fake geek girl week.

Fake geek girl, or fake geeks in genera was making fun of casuals. Nothing more nothing less, it's a slow news day/ week it's why we are talking about it. It's really what you think it is, filler and stupid that holds no meaning. But we might be considered sexist if we don't flame it. News is slow this week.

FelixG:
Watched about the first third and skipped the rest, you are a bit late on this one bob

Since the actual episode was about Supergirl and Bob just set up the entire beginning as a segue, maybe you should've watched the entire thing.

OT: Comics sure are weird. Biggest reason I've found that I can't follow them. The continuity is just too convoluted for me.

well.....i think maybe there are some "fake geek girls", but why do we care anyway?? as long as they are cosplaying the character the right way i don't see any problem....

On topic! YES!!! Power Girl !!! it's my 2nd favorite dc character xD just a little bit behind Batman, she's a great character such a complex story !, or at least had, i'm not liking the new 52 version of her... or hew new suit, i also thought huntress had a better origin the whole mafia stuff gave her a more dark background but i'll wait to see it things shape up XD anyway ill just leave this here....

image

FelixG:
Watched about the first third and skipped the rest, you are a bit late on this one bob

Not sure if you noticed, but after a point he drops the hot topic "geek girl" controversy and goes into the meat of this video, which is like a chronology of Superwoman from conception to her current incarnations. The subject is vaguely related to the geek girl trend, so he felt like weighing in on it briefly, but the rest of the video is far removed from the heat of that topic.

It's going to be a multi-episode feature, so if you want to follow subsequent Big Pictures you should give the rest of the video a shot.

Comics Are Weird!

Pause at 3:15 on Legion of Superheroes two-page spread.

Look just left of center right above Sun Boy's (the red and yellow guy with a sun on his chest) right thigh. There, mostly obscured behind the silver pedestal, is a familiar red and blue costume. That's right, 1000-yr old Marvel character Spiderman photobombs DC's Legion of Superheroes. Nice going webhead.

I remember doing a double take on that spread ~25 years ago.

Hehe, that horse just headbutted Superman. If only it were a unicorn.....Kryptanis the Super Unicorn. I'm not sure where this train of thought is going.....all aboard!

Murlin:
Does anyone ever get the feeling this whole "fake geek girl" and "booth babes need to go away" bullsh!t is just basically people trying to be (for lack of a better term) politically correct by (acting as if they are)attempting to root the sexism out of geek culture, without losing any of the sexy that comes with it?

If this is the case, you have to wonder if they are aware that the premise is fundamentally sexist.

OP: Another great "Comics are weird" episode. super girl's history is one of those things I never touched because I didn't know what to make of her. It is kinda awesome to see a history on her.

Clankenbeard:
Comics Are Weird!

Pause at 3:15 on Legion of Superheroes two-page spread.

Look just left of center right above Sun Boy's (the red and yellow guy with a sun on his chest) right thigh. There, mostly obscured behind the silver pedestal, is a familiar red and blue costume. That's right, 1000-yr old Marvel character Spiderman photobombs DC's Legion of Superheroes. Nice going webhead.

I remember doing a double take on that spread ~25 years ago.

image

Yeah, good spot. It's literally just his right arm and torso. That's pretty funny. There is a lot of red and blue on display, but that pattern is very distinctive.

I love these kind of cameos.

EDIT: Is that batman on the far left? Just poking up over the shoulder of another character?

Hm...I wonder if I'm about to regret saying this, but here we go. My 'problem' with "Fake Geek Girls" isn't that they're being fake, or that they're pretty (seriously, pretty is always a win for me). It's that I get excited about talking to them, but as soon as I start asking them questions--What did you think of the story? How'd you get past this part? Are you excited about this?--I start getting blank stares and general answers that are used to cover up the fact that they don't know, when a minute earlier they were acting like they understood. So I get a little depressed because I was looking forward to having a conversation about something that I really like talking about. Now, if the girl admits that she doesn't know that much about whatever (game, comic, book, universe) but still enjoys it, I'm fine with that. And if she wants to learn more about it, I'm perfectly happy to show her around. I just don't like getting my hopes up about talking about Star Wars or Mass Effect in detail, only to find out that the person, be it girl or guy, doesn't have the depth of knowledge I was lead to believe they had. Does that make sense?

Anyway, on to Supergirl. I've always liked her more than Superman. Heck, I've always liked ALL the younger heroes more than their mentors. The reason being exactly what Bob said: They're allowed to screw up, to change, to DIE--as tragic as that is. The originals can die, but they always come back (or never died in the first place). They always come out on top, they always overcome whatever is thrown at them. Cool to watch and read, but after a while it's no longer thrilling. It's not like that with the younger heroes. As Bob said, Supergirl acts like a teenager instead of the straight arrow Superman is, and it's that reason that I enjoyed her being one of the main characters in Justice League Unlimited and was sad to see her go. Same with when she briefly joined the Teen Titans. I like my heroes to be flawed and at risk of actual death (good-bye Kid Devil) instead of what Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman go through.

On a side note, I just bought the Supergirl Kotobukiya statue. Very excited about that.

The Gentleman:
Wait, geek girls are a problem to some? Who are these misogynistic assholes who are complaining about this?

Also, the Superman-as-the-ultimate-good-guy has been kept around mostly. In fact, the modern Batman-Superman dynamic involves Superman as the upright good guy to the point of being compulsive (Batman's nickname for Superman? "Boy Scout") while Batman is a utilitarian guy who pretty much uses any means necessary (except for his few major rules, such as no killing) to get the job done.

Batman doesn't kill?

You would be surprised.

In fact, he burns petty criminals and then have sex on top of them.

Sniper Team 4:
Hm...I wonder if I'm about to regret saying this, but here we go. My 'problem' with "Fake Geek Girls" isn't that they're being fake, or that they're pretty (seriously, pretty is always a win for me). It's that I get excited about talking to them, but as soon as I start asking them questions--What did you think of the story? How'd you get past this part? Are you excited about this?--I start getting blank stares and general answers that are used to cover up the fact that they don't know, when a minute earlier they were acting like they understood. So I get a little depressed because I was looking forward to having a conversation about something that I really like talking about. Now, if the girl admits that she doesn't know that much about whatever (game, comic, book, universe) but still enjoys it, I'm fine with that. And if she wants to learn more about it, I'm perfectly happy to show her around. I just don't like getting my hopes up about talking about Star Wars or Mass Effect in detail, only to find out that the person, be it girl or guy, doesn't have the depth of knowledge I was lead to believe they had. Does that make sense?

I think that makes perfect sense, and I agree. I have no problem when people are casually into anything and want to know more, but when you get someone like one of friends (a guy, for the record) who see's the Avengers and suddenly thinks he knows all about the characters (not the movie versions, as that would make sense if you watch the films) but he started acting like he knew all about the comics too, trying to correct me on some things...

My partner on the other hand, she's into some of the geeky stuff I'm into, but before she had met me, her DC knowledge was Batman the animated series, now she's read all kinds and we enjoy many discussions about games and comics etc. This was well before we got together too, and I have gone through with this for a few people now, introducing them to stuff. Had a Gandalf kind of an "all knowing" feeling about it (not that I know everything about anything, just the whole mentor feeling I get for a bit XD) and if more of us could be like that, then we wouldn't be dealing with this apparent "issue" anyway :)

As for Supergirl, my first experience with her was Crisis on Infinite Earths and man, was she awesome in that, so I look forward to learning more about a character I have limited knowledge of. After Crisis on Infinite Earths, my next bumping into the character wasn't until Superman/Batman Supergirl and I enjoyed that too.

I can't tell whether people genuinely don't understand why there's a thing about fake nerd girls, or whether they're just pretending not to understand it to come off as understanding or something.

People hate attention whores.

That is all.

No seriously, people complain about attention whores everywhere. If there's a person whoring attention, there will be somebody complaining about it. Add to that the general insecurities of people who actually identify as a 'geek' in a non ironic fashion, and you get 'the fake nerd girl meme/situation/whatever.'

It's really not that hard to understand. And I don't even bloodywell identify myself as a geek/nerd/whatever.

The fake geek girl can all be summed up into one universal idea. No one likes a poser.

While it's fine, in fact great if someone wants to get involved in a topic (in this case geek culture) and learn about it, that's awesome. However in any culture when you just walk in acting like you know it all, it turns off the people that actually are a part of that culture, and the person "posing" in that culture is obviously faking it.

It's ok to not be knowledgeable about something, someone wanting to learn what makes you tick is a great thing, but you can't just walk in and pretend to be an expert on the subject matter.

The other problem with fake geek girls is that they bring down the overall image of genuine geek girls because everyone starts to assume that any girl involved in geek culture is just pretending to fit into it. The stereotype is that there aren't any women interested in geek things (which is untrue), but pretty girls pretending to be into it, just discredit those who really are. Which is true for any topic, hell women interested in sports for that matter would be a great example too.

Personally if someone takes an interest in what you are interested in, let them embrace it and maybe find the same love for it that you have. But if you find out they are just pretending to you, that's not far removed from lying, and no one likes being lied to.

Stop.

No. Stop.

Stop it.

We don't care if someone wants to be a member of a fandom. We do care when it's a completely disingenuous attempt that completely misrepresents the underlying conditions that makes one a "nerd" or a "geek" and tries to pass off all the shit you ever put up with as a member of said group as either having never happened, or being somehow quaint. So in a very mild sense, that faux nerd is more or less one of the four horsemen for the entire subculture.

At the core of this you have a subculture that doesn't want this popularity creep from mainstream culture that is, at it's core, meant to make money, and little else. You have women who are basically humiliating themselves, whether they know it or not, in the name of this money- I'm going to doubt they see most of the profits anyways- because nerds became a marketable demographic.

This isn't unique to the nerd subculture. You can see it in any interest group that is largely dominated by one sex or the other.

Now piss off and never bring up this goddamn subject again Escapist.

Super Girl always seemed pretty plain and boring to me, I figured she was just Super Man but female but its nice to know the writers who created her at least gave her some more interesting stories besides "I'ma go punch this dood aw yeah!" lol

I too am still amazed the whole fake geek girl thing was an issue at all, like Bob says even if they are real how is that a bad thing? I mean I assume at least a few exist but they're hardly a dominant group I would think, especially since years of gaming as taught me their are plenty of girls playing games and the ratio of male - female is only getting more balanced which is effing awesome. While I haven't played World of Warcraft since early 2009 most of my more reliable friends in the game were in fact female, several of which I still maintain friendships with today.

Yeah, I was TOTALLY in sync with your view on the whole "Fake Nerd Girl" thing... I was like (the first time I heard this was a "thing"... "WTF? Weren't we supposed to be hella happy, that we ARE the mainstream? That WE are the standard? that WE took over? THat ALL they (the beautiful people) are now wanting to be part of OUR culture?" I still don't get it... it took us years, we finally took over the world... and now we don't want to let the people who can MORE APPROVE us being the majority in? that's just stupid... they now want to crown us, and we cast the crown out the window (not in a Christian way)? weird...

I haven't been following this "fake geek girl" thing and now I wish I still wasn't.

Also isn't Daverse the same last name as Ms. Marvel's alter ego?

Question: will next week be all about Power Girl? I was kinda looking forward to a discussion of various interpretations of Supergirl outside of comics.

Raiyan 1.0:

Batman doesn't kill?

You would be surprised.

In fact, he burns petty criminals and then have sex on top of them.

God bless Frank Miller.

i have been waiting for this episode for a while bob
also you hit the nail on the head with the first bit.

now can we get an episode(s) on luke cage the black panther
or all of the hulks

ZZoMBiE13:
Excited to see where this run of videos takes us. I've never really known much about Supergirl outside of what happens in Bruce Timm's Superman:TAS and later Justice League. Thanks BOB!

The wikipedia article on Supergirl goes over the precursors of the Kara Zor-El version including

Superwoman aka Lois Lane (first version Action Comics #60 (May 1943); yep they redid this idea several times)

Queen Lucy, Super-Girl - alien girl made to appear to have Superpower via Superboy (Superboy #5 (November-December 1949))

Super-Girl - the magical "helper" created by Jimmy Olsen which true to anything Jimmy does is as much hindrance as help (Superman #123 (August 1958) She looked so much like Kara Zor-El that early reprints changed the color of her hair (red) and costume (orange and green costume)

Claire Kent - Superboy being a chauvinistic jerk gets to live as girl for a while thanks to an equally jerky girl.
(Superboy #78 (Jan 1960))

If you believe that Superman of Earth-1 had all these adventures you can kind of understand his treatment of Kara in the early stories as up to then his experience with superpowered women had been more or less disasters.

BaronIveagh:

daxterx2005:
Power girl next week?

My body is ready.

ROFL

image

Yes, I always considered that all "filling the hole" thing a bit complicated
Seriously how can you deflorate Super Girl?
(Or any other near-invincible heroine?)
[oh, yes that thought occurred in my mind and I'm totally bringing it up]
Does she have a piece of criptonite for just such occasion?
Because if bullet can't pierce her flesh, then how penis could do this?

Wooo Power Girl! She's like Lara Croft except a million times sexier, stronger and has some actual depth. Ok I guess that means she's nothing like Lara Croft...but woot, can't wait to hear more about her next week :)

blackrave:
Yes, I always considered that all "filling the hole" thing a bit complicated
Seriously how can you deflorate Super Girl?
(Or any other near-invincible heroine?)
[oh, yes that thought occurred in my mind and I'm totally bringing it up]
Does she have a piece of criptonite for just such occasion?
Because if bullet can't pierce her flesh, then how penis could do this?

It can be done with a super penis.

The thing people arguing for "fake geek girl" is missing is that the only real problem with the phrase is the girl part. Fake Geeks aka Poseurs exists, yes. This can be annoying, problem is to much of a stretch for me. The problem is that the "Fake Geek Girl" targets only the women.

Now to what I really want to answer.

Anoni Mus:
Naruto ain't shit.

More enjoyable than Spirit Away or Howl's Moving Castle...

What a nonsense statement. Naruto is aimed at teenage boys (I guess you at least where this when you started watching) while Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi (Sipirited Away) and Howl no Ugoku Shiro (Howl's Moving Castle) are aimed at kids. That you don't like something not aimed at you means nothing. I happen to have a strong connection to my inner child and therefor can watch children's entertainment and enjoy it, but that is not the standard.

Naruto is still pure tripe story wise, character wise and pacing wise. Go watch Koukaku Kidoutai Stand Alone Complex (Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex). It does all three of those things properly. Or if you just really like fighting watch one of the original fighting animes like Hokuto no Ken (Fist of the North Star).

Or you could join the adult crowd and watch some of the more mind blowing stuff out there, some of my favorites are:
Shoujo Kakumei Utena (Revolutionary Girl Utena): Sure it's technically for girls but it is some of the deepest stuff ever made.
Serial Experiments Lain: If you are a geek you should watch this, even if you don't like anime watch this.
Neo Genesis Evangelion: If you have not watched this you can not technically call your self a anime geek.

And those three are just my personal favorites, there is a lot of great stuff out there. There are some truly mind blowing anime out there and you are sitting there saying something with no depth is great.

If a guy hates women who pretend they know things about comics but know nothing and men who pretend they know things about comics but know nothing is he:

1) No sexist because he hates men and women equally for the same reason.
2) Sexist because he hates some women for some reason.

I suspect that Bob would consider him 2) because Bob sure does love White Knighting.

Also it's pretty stupid to complain about something being sexist by today standards when it would have been considered normal or even empowering by the standards of the time.

Comics ARE WEIRDDDD!!!
I'm really glad to see another series of these, Bob.
Keep 'em comin' ! :D

from the people that I talk to, most of us dont really mind the "FGG"s. Its nice to see new blood (and other assets) and theres awlays a real chance they may want to get into it if tehy find something they like. I mean lets face it, no one comes out of the womb with all the knowledge of nerdism innate.

but then there are... those people, that seem to think the "FGG"s will bring the other "FGG"s (Fake Geek Guys) from the jock sector of the world and they'll overrun the nerdism, immediately make everything about sports and macho men and everything that I guess geeks/nerds hate. and thats usually about as far as I get into the conversation before walking away muttering about sterilization being legal in certain case by case situations.

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