The Big Picture: Original Geek Girl

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Damn Bob, you sure are going on a moral crusade about sexism lately and no straw is out of your reach. It's entirely possible that a 15 year old girl is expected to lack wisdom, maturity and self discipline because... that's what most or all 15 year old people tend to lack. But no, no, no, it's because the writers are SEXIST.

Entitled:

punipunipyo:
Yeah, I was TOTALLY in sync with your view on the whole "Fake Nerd Girl" thing... I was like (the first time I heard this was a "thing"... "WTF? Weren't we supposed to be hella happy, that we ARE the mainstream? That WE are the standard? that WE took over? THat ALL they (the beautiful people) are now wanting to be part of OUR culture?" I still don't get it... it took us years, we finally took over the world... and now we don't want to let the people who can MORE APPROVE us being the majority in? that's just stupid... they now want to crown us, and we cast the crown out the window (not in a Christian way)? weird...

Nope, we didn't take over the world.

Thick framed glasses took over the world. Basic Star Wars trivia took over the world. Online memes took over the world.

Being actually nerdy, as in being obsessed with extensive details of some insignificant hobby, even at the expense of sociability, is just as ridiculed as ever. Except that now the people who kept supporting the bullying and the hate and the arrogance, call themselves "nerds", based on some surface change in fashions. Because now instead of dudebro movies, we have dudebro shooters (and games are nerdy, right?), or because the blockbuster movies have more speculative fiction and less traditional war/police action movies (aliens are nerdy, right?), etc.

Because the youtube vloggers playing up their "nerd girl" appeal are the same ones who would have played up an emo style a few years ago, a punk rocker style two decade ago, and a hippie style half a century ago. Because they tend to be the kind of people who care more about following the trends, than understanding the motivations and behaviors of the subcultures that they represent.

Abandon4093:
I can't tell whether people genuinely don't understand why there's a thing about fake nerd girls, or whether they're just pretending not to understand it to come off as understanding or something.

People hate attention whores.

That is all.

No seriously, people complain about attention whores everywhere. If there's a person whoring attention, there will be somebody complaining about it. Add to that the general insecurities of people who actually identify as a 'geek' in a non ironic fashion, and you get 'the fake nerd girl meme/situation/whatever.'

It's really not that hard to understand. And I don't even bloodywell identify myself as a geek/nerd/whatever.

The thing is, that all these bloggers, journalists, opinion leaders, and commentators, who keep bringing up these moral issues, are basically pundits.

They are the pundits of the gamer community, and they make a living from bringing you the latest Moral Panic, even if they have to make one up.

Because "There is this big outrage full of idiots where everyone says this and that exact thing, and now here I tell you why they are all wrong" sells better than "There is a recent discussion theme with various directions, out of which, I vehemently disagree with the sexist implications of Penetrator999's post, and though leto2yay brought up a good point about booth babes being sexist, then nippon-warkiller brought that too far by blaming this on the girls themselves, and while Kafkaesque_Dreamer's justification for nerds' distaste for fakes was spot on, HotForAsuka sounded a bit too elitist as if she would have a superiority complex about how being a True Nerd is better than being other people."

It's just a show. It's supposed to make you feel involved. Make you feel afraid of the barbarians at the gate, about the "outraged masses" obsessively repeating their point, while US, the right ones, are merely "engaging in discourse".

Wow... Deep.. but sub-culture or mainstream, THEY WANT TO HAVE OUR APPROVAL!!!! that's all that matters rightnow!~ we are what's up!~ not the Rockers/Bikers/Jocks/Army/Cops..What ever was hot before... WE ARE NOW WHAT'S HOT NOW!~

That's why I was so happy, we should take our chance and "educate" them, make them a "better" mimic, eventually, they will BECOME US!~~~~ MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!~~~~~~~~~~

BaronIveagh:

daxterx2005:
Power girl next week?

My body is ready.

ROFL

image

My lord thats hilarious

Phuctifyno:

daxterx2005:
Power girl next week?

My body is ready.

This.
This was made perfect by your avatar.
Excellent work.

Also, that's sexist. You sexist. No sexist zone. Sexist. Sex. where am i?

Im a sexy sexist though right?

90sgamer:
Damn Bob, you sure are going on a moral crusade about sexism lately and no straw is out of your reach. It's entirely possible that a 15 year old girl is expected to lack wisdom, maturity and self discipline because... that's what most or all 15 year old people tend to lack. But no, no, no, it's because the writers are SEXIST.

Last I checked, 1950s America is pretty different, culturally, than 21st century America.

Entitled:

Nope, we didn't take over the world.

Thick framed glasses took over the world. Basic Star Wars trivia took over the world. Online memes took over the world.

Being actually nerdy, as in being obsessed with extensive details of some insignificant hobby, even at the expense of sociability, is just as ridiculed as ever. Except that now the people who kept supporting the bullying and the hate and the arrogance, call themselves "nerds", based on some surface change in fashions. Because now instead of dudebro movies, we have dudebro shooters (and games are nerdy, right?), or because the blockbuster movies have more speculative fiction and less traditional war/police action movies (aliens are nerdy, right?), etc.

Because the youtube vloggers playing up their "nerd girl" appeal are the same ones who would have played up an emo style a few years ago, a punk rocker style two decade ago, and a hippie style half a century ago. Because they tend to be the kind of people who care more about following the trends, than understanding the motivations and behaviors of the subcultures that they represent.

Abandon4093:
I can't tell whether people genuinely don't understand why there's a thing about fake nerd girls, or whether they're just pretending not to understand it to come off as understanding or something.

People hate attention whores.

That is all.

No seriously, people complain about attention whores everywhere. If there's a person whoring attention, there will be somebody complaining about it. Add to that the general insecurities of people who actually identify as a 'geek' in a non ironic fashion, and you get 'the fake nerd girl meme/situation/whatever.'

It's really not that hard to understand. And I don't even bloodywell identify myself as a geek/nerd/whatever.

The fake nerd part of the thread should finish after this really, the above quotes explains it well enough. The fake nerd 'girl' part again has been blown out of proportion (like Jims 20+ page thread), obviously there are guys out there complaining for the exact reason bob says, but because that's the only aspect that gets attention, the whole subject of posers taking advantage of a current 'nerd' trend gets laughed off along with the (rightfully) silly idea that 'hot chicks are out to get us'.

However I will just add that, no their not out to get us, however to be fair the 'tangible quantifiable precious resource' is called money, and its collected through blatant advertising/marketing of 'hot chick with a controller' or 'hot chick cosplaying', it doesn't affect us, but if we notice it and call it out, there's no harm in that (obviously we shouldn't be marching the streets and storming the local town halls lol, but complaining is fine), in real life it makes no difference, you just see a poser (male or female), and ignore, when its branded packaged and served up by marketing firms, for the sole purpose to sell movies/games/subscriptions/etc., that's when its out to get us (well our wallets).

Why should we be mad? (we being guys), we shouldn't, however if anyone should be mad about girls posing as 'nerds' for attention/profit/whatever, its the real females that (i assume) had to take crap in the past about being nerds. The current batch of posers will most likely cut all ties and shake off the image as soon as its not as trendy, and move onto the next image to exploit, the real females that would be described as nerds most likely wont.

Also i don't really see the logical conclusion being 'real geeks' getting anything out of it, i don't think the medium (or mediums if you look at 'nerd culture' being separate areas like comics/video games/movies/etc.), is going to be any better off, really if the influx of 'nerds' are just posing, they have no real interest in the mediums they claim to like anyway, and wont be consumers of it outside of 'ironic' tee shirts, costumes and thick rimmed glasses with no prescriptions lol. Also how would the 'real geeks' personally benefit? more people to talk to about their favorite medium? the posers don't even like it lol, and its not like anyone owes the posers gratitude for more 'nerdy' thing being made, for example having an excellent run of great superhero movies, really that's just because they were actually good, people decided to vote with their wallets. If that was all down to 'nerd culture' or 'comics culture' being trendy and the posers only deciding to buy tickets because its 'cool' for the moment, then we should expect no more good comic based movies as soon as the trendy bubble bursts lol (but i think its more the fact that Hollywood has been making some good stuff, and if they can keep it up all the better).

I'll be interested to see the other parts of the big picture, however hopefully this 'outrage trolling' has finished, it seems to be brought up to simply make fun of anyone that has a genuine problem with posers, by purely focusing on only the female poser aspect, and ignoring the marketing/money aspect too. Its understandable though, if that's all that gets brought up in the media, and bob wanted to comment on it, he can only comment on whats brought up, at least only a small proportion of the vid was about that.

Hannes Martinsson:
The thing people arguing for "fake geek girl" is missing is that the only real problem with the phrase is the girl part. Fake Geeks aka Poseurs exists, yes. This can be annoying, problem is to much of a stretch for me. The problem is that the "Fake Geek Girl" targets only the women.

[...]

That is the problem people! The complaint isn't "There are people pretending to be geeks to fit into a 'cool' mainstream subculture." Its "There are women, 'hot' women dressing up in geeky clothing or risky cosplay just for the attention."

This is why the 'Fake Geek Girl" meme is sexist. Go on and explain how its not on the grounds that no one likes poseurs and attention whores, or that the subculture has become mainstream so now 'casuals' are coming in and polluting the geek master race, and so forth. It doesn't change the fact that its 'fake geek girls' and not 'fake geeks' that is the contested topic.

Seriously, when was the last time you knew a guy that was accused of being a fake nerd?

daxterx2005:

My lord thats hilarious

In a way, I've always felt bad for PeeGee. Every time DC had another Infinite Crisis, she was almost always the sole survivor. And then the new versions of everyone treated her like a noob.

Sadly, she's also always the one that DC seems to struggle to work with as a character. It seems like every time a creative team comes along that seems to 'get' PowerGirl, they get pulled a few issues later and replaced with people who just want to make a generic superhero book with boobs.

Okay, so apparently this is a real issue for people and Jim wasn't just short on ideas last week. Some days I'm glad I miss the controversy. Others have chimed in on a general hatred of posers of any gender. Anime surpasses my interest in games for several years and we hated the "hardcore otaku" that only really had knowledge of Akira, DBZ and the parts of Ghost in the Shell involving naked female cyborgs. Anyone that doesn't consider nerd an insult probably has a minimum bar of "willing to learn" to be accepted into the club if not a higher standard, and honestly, it is that active willingness to learn absorb and show off knowledge that makes us who we are, and often leaves us with little to say to those with a more passive sedentary interest.

And so to answer your question: no, it's hard to believe such girls would be there because nerds have become the hot commodity for a relationship. Are Star Wars t-shirts in fashion? Did acne and cola guts become a sign of sexual prowess? I mean, if they don't know about or have any interest in learning about the things we're into we won't have a heck of a lot to talk about, so that's out. Maybe this is the only way these hot girls can be admired because all the beaches, gyms, and bars have closed. Being a poser is bad enough, but it's hard to see a motive that isn't off putting. I suppose some could be out trolling for the next Zucherberg before he invents his billion dollar software (which would put the joke on them) but moreover I think the concern would be in being condescended to. Nerds are more sexually minded, but less sexually aggressive than the average male, so one's free to flirt without every smile being acted on as a sign of willingness for sex. AKA we're not here because we want to sleep with you, just admire us for a few hours and go away.

AT least that's my theory. I've taken this as a serious issue for about 30 minutes now so my theory could be half baked.

No, Bob, you got it wrong.

If indeed a hot girl is truly interested in the nerd culture, I'm sure guys will welcome them with open arms. Hell, I'm a girl and I work at GameStop and I cannot being to count the times guys ask me out because 1. Boobs and 2. I like nerd stuff. And mind you, it's not like I'm ugly or pretty; that's irrelevant. Guys just want to meet a girl who's into the stuff they like. I get it, and you got that part right.

No, what kinda bothers me is the posers. And I might superficial with this statement but you gotta admit posers are the one thing that can piss almost everyone off, no matter what genre we're talking about. granted, it's not like those type of girls are popping everywhere; I've met like 2 or 3 so far in my life. But it still kinda pisses me off.
I'm not a xenophobe. When I see one of those girls (or guy, for that matter) starting to take interest in games or comic books or whatever, I usually welcome them and introduce them to some of the stuff I like or they might like. But the usual response is them losing interest and going shopping or watching Pretty Little Liars (I swear that happened just like that).
They don't care about the geek/nerd culture overall. They just wanna be trendy and cool because nerds and geeks are now trendy and cool. And hey, it's not like we're a cult; anyone can be one. But some people just want to claim to be one for the fame.

Yeah, it's not like those girls can wear a, let's say, Yoshi shirt just because it's cute. that's fine. Who cares anyway? But it's as if I wear a Harley Davidson shirt and start hanging out at biker bars and talking about those bikes with the wheels and the engines and the vroom. Yeah, I might like the shirt but I shouldn't go around pretending to be into the whole biker thing.

And yeah, it's not like that issue doesn't let me sleep. But it still bothers me.

...I'm gonna get grilled for my superficial attitude...

*Takes cover*

Beautiful End:
No, Bob, you got it wrong.

If indeed a hot girl is truly interested in the nerd culture, I'm sure guys will welcome them with open arms. Hell, I'm a girl and I work at GameStop and I cannot being to count the times guys ask me out because 1. Boobs and 2. I like nerd stuff. And mind you, it's not like I'm ugly or pretty; that's irrelevant. Guys just want to meet a girl who's into the stuff they like. I get it, and you got that part right.

No, what kinda bothers me is the posers. And I might superficial with this statement but you gotta admit posers are the one thing that can piss almost everyone off, no matter what genre we're talking about. granted, it's not like those type of girls are popping everywhere; I've met like 2 or 3 so far in my life. But it still kinda pisses me off.
I'm not a xenophobe. When I see one of those girls (or guy, for that matter) starting to take interest in games or comic books or whatever, I usually welcome them and introduce them to some of the stuff I like or they might like. But the usual response is them losing interest and going shopping or watching Pretty Little Liars (I swear that happened just like that).
They don't care about the geek/nerd culture overall. They just wanna be trendy and cool because nerds and geeks are now trendy and cool. And hey, it's not like we're a cult; anyone can be one. But some people just want to claim to be one for the fame.

Yeah, it's not like those girls can wear a, let's say, Yoshi shirt just because it's cute. that's fine. Who cares anyway? But it's as if I wear a Harley Davidson shirt and start hanging out at biker bars and talking about those bikes with the wheels and the engines and the vroom. Yeah, I might like the shirt but I shouldn't go around pretending to be into the whole biker thing.

And yeah, it's not like that issue doesn't let me sleep. But it still bothers me.

...I'm gonna get grilled for my superficial attitude...

*Takes cover*

Again this is basically it, Beautiful End pretty much covered it, and from a female "geek/nerd's" perspective no less, the only reason the thread will continue to grow and the 'Controversy' will remain, is because in general for a lot of Controversies not many people actually want to look at an issue, analyse it, and try work out a solution or why it occurred if there isn't a solution, but rather just turn it into screaming matches, attacking other posters personally, or pushing an agenda not (or slightly) related to the topic.
Bob / Jim, the gaming media or the sites hosting the content don't really want it to die either, I'm sure fanning the flames causes more hits now doesn't it ;)

The answer is, "it's annoying", so move along, or more talk on Supergirl / speculation on what's going to be in the next The Big Picture, its more entertaining than flogging the dead horse of a question that's been answered several times already in this thread alone lol.

Daikun:
Kinda going off topic, don't you think?

You start off with a rant about people supposedly vying for attention, then switch gears to the origins of a comic book character.

Actually I think it's sort of a progression. He's using an example from comics when DC tried to market to a young female audience as well as the male audience. It's exactly what "geek girls" are asking for, and the kind of 50's/60's style chaos that ensued.

Klaflefalumpf:
So I have to ask: Seeing as my only knowledge of this apparent 'fake geek girl' thing comes from Jim/Bob/Critical Miss and I seem to have avoided seeing it anywhere else, just how deep is my head buried in the sand?

Dude, same here. I NEVER had any idea this was a problem or even a thing until Jim just brought it the fuck out of nowhere like he had reached the end of an issue that had been festering for years. Then Crit-Miss, and now MovieBob. It's really quite perplexing.

I'd probably prefer this kind of charmingly un-threatening, dated sexist depiction of a female superhero, over the more recently dated "rape her in the backstory, turn her into a Strong!Female!, kill her off to raise the stakes" sexist depiction of a female superhero.

Dang it, I feel I have to throw my 5 cents in to the shit-storm that is the fake geek girl discussion, but I have a point I feel isn't adressed often enough.
I'm not going to deny the fake geek girl, I've seen a few, and seen a few comments on formus and facebook that has made me facepalm with "Geez, you really don't know what you're talking about either". Nor am I on the side of the " The fake geek girl is only heard of from people who protest it" bullshit. I browse enough websites to see some good examples of outrageous accusations of fake geek girls. Read the comments on Wil Whetons Tabletop with female guests, it's bloody disgusting.
Here's my problem. I get that people get annoyed when people get annoyed when people declare themselves geeks for watching "Lord of the Rings", I really do. The problem is, girls don't get called out for messing up their geek facts, girls are asked to prove it before hand. I have several female friends that put my geek-cred to shame and yet I never have to prove that I'm a geek beforehand. An entire gender is asked to prove that they are geeks before they are allowed to be part of the community, just because the phenomenon of the fake geek girl exists, and that is where the bloody sexism rears its ugly head. If you feel the need to out fake geek girls, you are probably not a very nice person but you know what, I can understand your rage. It's not very logical, but rage very seldom is, and I get it. If your default perception is that girls should prove they are "real geeks", you are a f'$ing sexist pig. It's as simple as that.
Not sure if my point came across very clear but it's been on my mind all week and I needed to get it out of my system.

I don't really get what this discussion is other than comic book fans like to create new embarrassingly stupid terms for things. As if "television tropes dot com" didn't already conclusively nail that to the mast head.

Some women can be manipulative and deceptive. If you are a well off single man who isn't that attractive then it's a well known fact that some attractive women will come on to you for your money. This is degrading for both parties really. But acting like a paranoid creep isn't the greatest thing.

I personally dislike Power girl
Her outfit and general look is really weird
Can anyone explain why a lot of people are so into her?

Mikodite:

Hannes Martinsson:
The thing people arguing for "fake geek girl" is missing is that the only real problem with the phrase is the girl part. Fake Geeks aka Poseurs exists, yes. This can be annoying, problem is to much of a stretch for me. The problem is that the "Fake Geek Girl" targets only the women.

[...]

That is the problem people! The complaint isn't "There are people pretending to be geeks to fit into a 'cool' mainstream subculture." Its "There are women, 'hot' women dressing up in geeky clothing or risky cosplay just for the attention."

This is why the 'Fake Geek Girl" meme is sexist. Go on and explain how its not on the grounds that no one likes poseurs and attention whores, or that the subculture has become mainstream so now 'casuals' are coming in and polluting the geek master race, and so forth. It doesn't change the fact that its 'fake geek girls' and not 'fake geeks' that is the contested topic.

Seriously, when was the last time you knew a guy that was accused of being a fake nerd?

Guys are being accused of being fake nerd all the time, even if not with this specific meme/phrase/stereotype. Every time you were being called "not a true gamer" if you only play on consoles, or not a true anime fan if you only watch Naruto, with the default assumption that you are male, people were basically questioning your nerd cred.

The only reason why the "fake geek girl" sub-meme is so specifically outlined, isn't because it's about women, but because it's about sexual attraction, and sex-based attention pandering. (And since most nerds are heterosexual men, the typical example of sexually pandering to them is a young woman.)

Everyone especially hates the feeling that they are manipulated by their basest urges. Just think about how much hate films/books/games receive for using the "sex sells" trick, both from men and from women, (whether they are using male or female sexualised characters). It gets much more hate than other immature methods of pandering (Baysplosions, happy endings, audience avatars), because it's one specific trick that people feel offended about.

"Fake nerd girls" can be another blatant example of that, either literally, when the archetype is being exploited by businesses, or without literally trying to sell anything, simply by celebrities or normal women showing some skin for attention, while mixing it with some fetishistic "nerd chic" style.

I'm not saying that the stereotype *can't be* used by actual mysoginists as well, in fact, I'm pretty sure that some commenters already went that way, but there is more to it than everyone just randomly dumping a negative stereotype of pouseurism exclusively on women, for no reason at all, just because we hate women.

blackrave:
I personally dislike Power girl
Her outfit and general look is really weird
Can anyone explain why a lot of people are so into her?

All her outfits have been weird. The 'boob window' sort of became the iconic one due to it... rather standing out.

People like PowerGirl for a few reasons. I don't think I need to spell out why teenage boys like her. However, she's most come across as one of the more mature, occasionally more fun, DC characters. I really recommend Conner and Palmiotti's run on her pre-New 52 series. They took an interesting look at what really goes into maintaining a double life like PowerGirl has to live. (One must wonder how many of those alarm clock's she's destroyed.)

Stupid ban-wagon gracefully side stepped Bob.

I would have to say that I really enjoyed Power Girls origin story in the Justice League t.v. series. Making her a psyco clone of Super Girl gave them a chance to work out their differences as characters with their fists.

Beautiful End:
No, Bob, you got it wrong.

If indeed a hot girl is truly interested in the nerd culture, I'm sure guys will welcome them with open arms. Hell, I'm a girl and I work at GameStop and I cannot being to count the times guys ask me out because 1. Boobs and 2. I like nerd stuff. And mind you, it's not like I'm ugly or pretty; that's irrelevant. Guys just want to meet a girl who's into the stuff they like. I get it, and you got that part right.

No, what kinda bothers me is the posers. And I might superficial with this statement but you gotta admit posers are the one thing that can piss almost everyone off, no matter what genre we're talking about. granted, it's not like those type of girls are popping everywhere; I've met like 2 or 3 so far in my life. But it still kinda pisses me off.
I'm not a xenophobe. When I see one of those girls (or guy, for that matter) starting to take interest in games or comic books or whatever, I usually welcome them and introduce them to some of the stuff I like or they might like. But the usual response is them losing interest and going shopping or watching Pretty Little Liars (I swear that happened just like that).
They don't care about the geek/nerd culture overall. They just wanna be trendy and cool because nerds and geeks are now trendy and cool. And hey, it's not like we're a cult; anyone can be one. But some people just want to claim to be one for the fame.

Yeah, it's not like those girls can wear a, let's say, Yoshi shirt just because it's cute. that's fine. Who cares anyway? But it's as if I wear a Harley Davidson shirt and start hanging out at biker bars and talking about those bikes with the wheels and the engines and the vroom. Yeah, I might like the shirt but I shouldn't go around pretending to be into the whole biker thing.

And yeah, it's not like that issue doesn't let me sleep. But it still bothers me.

...I'm gonna get grilled for my superficial attitude...

*Takes cover*

This

Also I would like to remind everyone about how we weren't suppose to be upset about the HALO phenomenon in gaming. I myself didn't care for the first several years and just laugh off haters like when Bob got mad about it on overthinker. The result? The gaming landscape is sharply divided between big budget Shooters,3rd person steathers/adventure and the indie scene. See thats what is going to happen. A schism between types of people/geeks that will shift most of the money to the more dumbed down things. Thats the concern. Not OMG girls are icky but hey look the popular kids are hi-jacking our thing and you expect us to be quiet about it.

BaronIveagh:

All her outfits have been weird. The 'boob window' sort of became the iconic one due to it... rather standing out.

People like PowerGirl for a few reasons. I don't think I need to spell out why teenage boys like her. However, she's most come across as one of the more mature, occasionally more fun, DC characters. I really recommend Conner and Palmiotti's run on her pre-New 52 series. They took an interesting look at what really goes into maintaining a double life like PowerGirl has to live. (One must wonder how many of those alarm clock's she's destroyed.)

Maybe I'll give it a go
If I find myself near comic book store, that is
Those aren't exactly widely spread outside the U.S.

Ashoten:

I would have to say that I really enjoyed Power Girls origin story in the Justice League t.v. series. Making her a psyco clone of Super Girl gave them a chance to work out their differences as characters with their fists.

Wait that wasn't canon? When I saw that episode I thought that it was actual origin of Power Girl.
And yes, that was pretty cool origin story :) (although that made her a villain)
Now I'm really can't wait till next Big Picture. Hopefully Bob will shed some light on that issue.

Beautiful End:
No, Bob, you got it wrong.

If indeed a hot girl is truly interested in the nerd culture, I'm sure guys will welcome them with open arms. Hell, I'm a girl and I work at GameStop and I cannot being to count the times guys ask me out because 1. Boobs and 2. I like nerd stuff. And mind you, it's not like I'm ugly or pretty; that's irrelevant. Guys just want to meet a girl who's into the stuff they like. I get it, and you got that part right.

No, what kinda bothers me is the posers. And I might superficial with this statement but you gotta admit posers are the one thing that can piss almost everyone off, no matter what genre we're talking about. granted, it's not like those type of girls are popping everywhere; I've met like 2 or 3 so far in my life. But it still kinda pisses me off.
I'm not a xenophobe. When I see one of those girls (or guy, for that matter) starting to take interest in games or comic books or whatever, I usually welcome them and introduce them to some of the stuff I like or they might like. But the usual response is them losing interest and going shopping or watching Pretty Little Liars (I swear that happened just like that).
They don't care about the geek/nerd culture overall. They just wanna be trendy and cool because nerds and geeks are now trendy and cool. And hey, it's not like we're a cult; anyone can be one. But some people just want to claim to be one for the fame.

Yeah, it's not like those girls can wear a, let's say, Yoshi shirt just because it's cute. that's fine. Who cares anyway? But it's as if I wear a Harley Davidson shirt and start hanging out at biker bars and talking about those bikes with the wheels and the engines and the vroom. Yeah, I might like the shirt but I shouldn't go around pretending to be into the whole biker thing.

And yeah, it's not like that issue doesn't let me sleep. But it still bothers me.

...I'm gonna get grilled for my superficial attitude...

*Takes cover*

*lends you a hand* Don't worry about getting grilled.

Are they gonna suddenly flood you with demotivationals of "There are no girls on the internet"?

Will they suddenly deem you a "Fake Gamer Girl" because you don't fully know Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Final Fantasy, etc. and that all "Gamer Girls" play is The Sims and their X amount of expansions?
Will they say you are a "Fake Girl Geek" because you never really cared for, or had a lot of knowledge of Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.? (Forgive me if I am knocking on you, I do not personally know you nor your interests, just stating in general.)

It is great that you work at a GameStop. More power to ya.

Lastly, you are you. Stay strong, play games you fully enjoy, be introduced to ones you may or may not like. Same thing with movies, TV, and so on.

Callate:
(Please, for the love of all that's good and holy, don't let this become another 700-plus post argument about the geek-girl thing...)

I wish I had your optimism.

shadowmagus:
Bob, have you ever considered that maybe this whole "fake geek girl" thing isn't directed at the women but the concept of what they are doing? Consider the fact that you have an entire subculture of people who for decades have been the butt of jokes, torment, and ridicule so much that we they made revenge movies for us, and now that said subculture is in the mainstream, they are not allowed to have some resentment towards people who are only getting into the scene to be "mainstream" and "with the times". You have said in your videos that you would side with Magneto if given super human abilities because of how you have been treated through life, yet you're ok with people coming and and simply pretending to like things? What if it was guys? My issue with it is that you're essentially white-knighting because these are women who are being "attacked". If it was guys, no one would turn a damn head.

Setting aside the question of why it's not guys who get consistently attacked like this, who does this geek gatekeeping actually benefit? What is the endgoal here? And why can none of the people whining about fake geek girls give me a coherent answer as to that?

Suicidejim:
I feel somewhat irritated by the accusations that the people opposed to 'fake geek girls' are insecure, misogynistic men who resent women entering their culture, when the vast majority of complaints I have heard about such girls have come from female friends of mine.

So, Tony Harris and Ryan Perez are female friends of yours, are they? And so are all the people whining on the Escapist comment threads whenever someone dares bring the subject up?

Ickabod:
While it's fine, in fact great if someone wants to get involved in a topic (in this case geek culture) and learn about it, that's awesome. However in any culture when you just walk in acting like you know it all, it turns off the people that actually are a part of that culture, and the person "posing" in that culture is obviously faking it.

It's ok to not be knowledgeable about something, someone wanting to learn what makes you tick is a great thing, but you can't just walk in and pretend to be an expert on the subject matter.

The other problem with fake geek girls is that they bring down the overall image of genuine geek girls because everyone starts to assume that any girl involved in geek culture is just pretending to fit into it. The stereotype is that there aren't any women interested in geek things (which is untrue), but pretty girls pretending to be into it, just discredit those who really are. Which is true for any topic, hell women interested in sports for that matter would be a great example too.

First off, I don't believe for one moment that the numbers of people doing this are high enough to make kvetching about it even remotely worth anyone's time. Secondly, if someone thinks "any girl involved in geek culture is just pretending" because of a handful of poseurs, that's a pretty good sign they just don't want women in their subculture at all.

acosn:
We don't care if someone wants to be a member of a fandom. We do care when it's a completely disingenuous attempt that completely misrepresents the underlying conditions that makes one a "nerd" or a "geek" and tries to pass off all the shit you ever put up with as a member of said group as either having never happened, or being somehow quaint. So in a very mild sense, that faux nerd is more or less one of the four horsemen for the entire subculture.

At the core of this you have a subculture that doesn't want this popularity creep from mainstream culture that is, at it's core, meant to make money, and little else. You have women who are basically humiliating themselves, whether they know it or not, in the name of this money- I'm going to doubt they see most of the profits anyways- because nerds became a marketable demographic.

Again, assuming that this is even remotely widespread enough to be a problem (and that banning booth babes won't cure it, which is even more ridiculous since they're pretty much the only ones who ever get paid to be there), do you also have a problem with the way women are portrayed in the games themselves? Because that lines up way closer with what you're claiming that booth babes do.

emeraldrafael:
but then there are... those people, that seem to think the "FGG"s will bring the other "FGG"s (Fake Geek Guys) from the jock sector of the world and they'll overrun the nerdism, immediately make everything about sports and macho men and everything that I guess geeks/nerds hate. and thats usually about as far as I get into the conversation before walking away muttering about sterilization being legal in certain case by case situations.

Because CoD and Gears haven't already brought the FGGuys in...

summerof2010:
Anyway, I'm sure there's a lot of good discussion going on here about the "geek girl" phenomenon, but I don't have time to read through it, so I'm just going to throw in my two cents. Gamers and comic/fantasy enthusiasts have traditionally had a hard time melding into society. By establishing a general culture and being able to come together via the internet, conventions, etc., they (or, we, rather) are better able to maintain a sense of self worth, dignity, and validation. The fake nerd is offensive because people like that are merely adopting the superficial trappings of the culture and declaring themselves a part of it. It's comparable to the "gated community gangster" white boys that assume the trappings of rap culture and do the same. The conflate the image with the history of struggling to find self-identity, personal insecurity, and courage to finally accept oneself that is inherent in the actual culture. While I agree that it's nothing to get too butthurt about, it's certainly offensive and irritating, not to mention laughable. But honestly I only know of the phenomenon through memes and some personal acquaintances, and I haven't heard much of the rest of the internet actually talk about it, so my impression may be more unique than most. Either way, the "fake nerd girl" isn't totally harmless.

Leaving aside the question of why so many of the people complaining about "fake geek girls" seem to have so much more of a problem with the women than with the alleged "fake geek men," and also leaving aside the question of whether this issue is widespread or pervasive enough to actually be harmful (which, spoiler alert, it is not), why shouldn't we be trying to bring them IN to our culture? Wouldn't that filter out these alleged poseurs just as well as blindly attacking every newcomer on presumption that they're faking it?

A_Libertarian:
Bob, I have to say this is the first time I've disagreed with you strongly (re: the "Fake Geek Girl" thing).
I don't think that the reaction has anything to do with "keeping girls out" of geek culture - rather, it's more of a self-protective reaction. I think geeks/nerds of a certain generation are so used to being mocked openly (in school, on TV, movies, etc), that we are far more suspicious than we should be of girls finally realizing that our nerdy interests are fun. The push-back (if there really is any), is more against being pandered to and insulted by what seems like faked interest by the fairer sex and corporate America.

Remember in high school when you would fantasize about sweeping Ms. Beautiful off of her feet, and even your own head would betray you and remember that she wouldn't like what you consider fun? That mild subconscious shame you could feel even when you were enjoying yourself playing AD&D or a video game? Ok, maybe that's just me, but there are millions who felt the same, I know. Now the hot girl on TV has a ridiculous grin on her face and is flailing at a game pad like an epileptic chimp, and I'm insulted. And feeling that insult in the media fuels a resentment that can be misplaced on females who actually enjoy nerd-hobbies because we can't know if, deep inside, they're just another corporate drone hawking something or if we suddenly ARE as cool as everyone else.

It's not pretty in an old-school nerd's head. We took the lumps, and now maybe popular culture really is coming around at last... But there are still plenty of water-headed fakes out there, waiting to mock what they can't understand, or just trying to fit in with the crowd. More power to the ladies who actually enjoy an evening of Star Trek, but I'll not be buying them a Captain Janeway uniform until they prove they're for real.

Of course a libertarian would be complaining about other people exercising their freedom to do and like what they want...

So, tell me, if you admit that this resentment is "misplaced" on females who actually enjoy nerd hobbies, why should people not be given the benefit of the doubt until they "prove" themselves to your arbitrary satisfaction? Why should attacking false positives be more important than rescuing false negatives?

90sgamer:
Damn Bob, you sure are going on a moral crusade about sexism lately and no straw is out of your reach. It's entirely possible that a 15 year old girl is expected to lack wisdom, maturity and self discipline because... that's what most or all 15 year old people tend to lack. But no, no, no, it's because the writers are SEXIST.

Then why aren't 15-year-old boys attacked with equal vehemency?

Beautiful End:
No, Bob, you got it wrong.

If indeed a hot girl is truly interested in the nerd culture, I'm sure guys will welcome them with open arms.

They don't. Trust me, they don't.

maninahat:
I'd probably prefer this kind of charmingly un-threatening, dated sexist depiction of a female superhero, over the more recently dated "rape her in the backstory, turn her into a Strong!Female!, kill her off to raise the stakes" sexist depiction of a female superhero.

Do we have to choose between the two?

Or you could all just read this comment.

zombie711:
image
This whole thing was started by the Mary sue blog and then got out of hand.

Look not every girl who enjoys geek culture or parts of it is not nessisarly a geek or a prented one who is trying to get attention. Its the same for guys as well.

However this whole anti fake geek girl thing proably steams from things like Booth babes or other host of geek related media who are there for sex appeal alone. Remeber when pax didnt allow booth babes or at least made them have to know about the game in question they were supporting. Same kind of idea.

Read the #1 on this list
http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-awful-ways-internet-tainting-everything-else_p2/

I wasn't ritualistically bullied as a kid nor did I experience much bullying at all though out me life. Does this mean that even though I have enjoyed nerdy things all my life I am a fake nerd.............. HOLY SHIT guys I think I may be a nerd Cylon. :(

--------------------------------------------------------
Geek culture is for everyone; people are not and can not protect it from anyone. If booth babes are getting someone's pants in a twist, that is their fault for expecting them to uphold a silly ideal. As others have said it is important for "booth babes" to be knowledgeable about the product they are representing. If they are not it is not their fault it is the fault of the person who hired them and the half-assed handling for their business. Expecting a booth babe to know random shit about other things you feel are "geek worthy" is stupid.

Sylocat:

Suicidejim:
I feel somewhat irritated by the accusations that the people opposed to 'fake geek girls' are insecure, misogynistic men who resent women entering their culture, when the vast majority of complaints I have heard about such girls have come from female friends of mine.

So, Tony Harris and Ryan Perez are female friends of yours, are they? And so are all the people whining on the Escapist comment threads whenever someone dares bring the subject up?

Important word here is 'heard.' As in, the real world. Issues tend to get distorted on the internet, it's like an echo chamber for petty resentment. But yes, in my life I hear most of these complaints from my female friends. I'm not saying these complaints aren't predominantly male in origin, but taking offence that many commenters are portraying them as exclusively male in origin. True, the evidence I offer is merely anecdotal, but from what I've seen both genders get annoyed at fake anything from either gender.

To everyone asking where this whole "fake geek girl" thing came from, remember when Lisa Foiles was on the Escapist. Look at a sampling of the comments on her videos. It was all people saying "She's faking it."

So yeah, it happens, and it has happened here.

blackrave:

Wait that wasn't canon? When I saw that episode I thought that it was actual origin of Power Girl.
And yes, that was pretty cool origin story :) (although that made her a villain)
Now I'm really can't wait till next Big Picture. Hopefully Bob will shed some light on that issue.

No, PowerGirl is/was an older Supergirl from an alternate reality. (Unless you're reading Ame-Comi Girls, where she has the same origin as Superman)

She got stranded in the main DC continuity by the long string of reality warping reboots that have come along, being pretty much the only survivor of each previous incarnation of the DC Universe and making her plotline look like can of silly string tossed into a chipper shredder.

With the New 52 they tossed the old PowerGirl out and started over with her origin as an inter-dimensional shipwreck, of a sort.

My honest opinion on where this whole "fake geek girl" issue is stemming from?

We've got geek guys. A lot of which might have issues with the opposite sex (totally generalizing here, but a fair generalization I'd say?). For years they probably got a lot of shit for what they were into as well. Now they run into girls who are into comics, and video games, etc... cute girls even!

But oh shit, they're still not interested in the awkward geek dude. Now he's angry. She should be into HIM! They like the same things! Obviously she's not a REAL geek! She doesn't have the cred (and goddamnit she won't date him)!

It's basically a lot of bitter geeks.

I grew up in the punk scene in my city, I hear a lot of folks throwing the word "poser" around. Very familiar with the use and abuse of that word. You know what's worse than the mythical poser? The Elite Scene Police(tm) trying to say who's genuine and who's faking it. Because they assume a HELL of a lot.

Couple that with general misogyny. Again, going back to my past and present days dealing in the punk scene, the gut reaction to a lot of folks in this supposedly progressive scene when confronted with women at shows? What dude in what band is she dating, cuz that's the only reason why she's probably here. Or women playing in bands? Nobody would give a shit about her if she wasn't a girl. Blah blah bleh blargh. This whole geek girl witchhunt is just yet another situation where guys are accepted without question and girls are asked to prove themselves to get their scene badge. And it's all just a load of bullshit. It really is.

Are people into all of this for the wrong reasons? Probably. Yeah, guys and girls. Geek culture is in vogue these days. But worry about yourself. Are you into this for the "right" (as you perceive it) reasons? Awesome. Keep on doing what you're doing. Don't worry about that guy or those girls. Or maybe even give them the benefit of the doubt. Life's too short to stress and get all divisive about such trivial things.

RoBi3.0:

I wasn't ritualistically bullied as a kid nor did I experience much bullying at all though out me life. Does this mean that even though I have enjoyed nerdy things all my life I am a fake nerd.............. HOLY SHIT guys I think I may be a nerd Cylon. :(

--------------------------------------------------------
Geek culture is for everyone; people are not and can not protect it from anyone. If booth babes are getting someone's pants in a twist, that is their fault for expecting them to uphold a silly ideal. As others have said it is important for "booth babes" to be knowledgeable about the product they are representing. If they are not it is not their fault it is the fault of the person who hired them and the half-assed handling for their business. Expecting a booth babe to know random shit about other things you feel are "geek worthy" is stupid.

In a sense?

No, you're not a nerd. You're not a geek. Liking science fiction / fantasy or video games is not the be all / end all of who's a fucking nerd.

This isn't about booth babes either- its obvious they're a marketing ploy. Anyone who doesn't get that is a moron.

If you've never had to actually stick up for your hobbies, or have never been berated for them, congrats. You're normal. Maybe a bit spineless. Typically, at a very basic level, the pre-requesite for being a "nerd" or a "geek" is, by definition, being so involved in something that you forgo what is considered normal practices. Having an acceptably large social life and social skills. Personal hygiene. You know. Now maybe you just had the most statistically improbable upbringing where you never got shit for anything you ever did, but I find that hard to believe.

Sylocat:

words

Again, why do people keep bringing up booth babes? They're paid to look good, and because marketers know that a bunch of under sexed teenagers and 20-somethings are like flies to paper with them.

And no, I don't have a problem with how women are portrayed in video games. I would hope people would be able to draw a distinction between themselves and a fucking video game. The people who don't are no different than the people who commit suicide over not being able to live in a fantasy world.

blackrave:
I personally dislike Power girl
Her outfit and general look is really weird
Can anyone explain why a lot of people are so into her?

I can think of two good reasons.

image

KingWein22:

Beautiful End:
No, Bob, you got it wrong.

If indeed a hot girl is truly interested in the nerd culture, I'm sure guys will welcome them with open arms. Hell, I'm a girl and I work at GameStop and I cannot being to count the times guys ask me out because 1. Boobs and 2. I like nerd stuff. And mind you, it's not like I'm ugly or pretty; that's irrelevant. Guys just want to meet a girl who's into the stuff they like. I get it, and you got that part right.

No, what kinda bothers me is the posers. And I might superficial with this statement but you gotta admit posers are the one thing that can piss almost everyone off, no matter what genre we're talking about. granted, it's not like those type of girls are popping everywhere; I've met like 2 or 3 so far in my life. But it still kinda pisses me off.
I'm not a xenophobe. When I see one of those girls (or guy, for that matter) starting to take interest in games or comic books or whatever, I usually welcome them and introduce them to some of the stuff I like or they might like. But the usual response is them losing interest and going shopping or watching Pretty Little Liars (I swear that happened just like that).
They don't care about the geek/nerd culture overall. They just wanna be trendy and cool because nerds and geeks are now trendy and cool. And hey, it's not like we're a cult; anyone can be one. But some people just want to claim to be one for the fame.

Yeah, it's not like those girls can wear a, let's say, Yoshi shirt just because it's cute. that's fine. Who cares anyway? But it's as if I wear a Harley Davidson shirt and start hanging out at biker bars and talking about those bikes with the wheels and the engines and the vroom. Yeah, I might like the sh0irt but I shouldn't go around pretending to be into the whole biker thing.

And yeah, it's not like that issue doesn't let me sleep. But it still bothers me.

...I'm gonna get grilled for my superficial attitude...

*Takes cover*

*lends you a hand* Don't worry about getting grilled.

Are they gonna suddenly flood you with demotivationals of "There are no girls on the internet"?

Will they suddenly deem you a "Fake Gamer Girl" because you don't fully know Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Final Fantasy, etc. and that all "Gamer Girls" play is The Sims and their X amount of expansions?
Will they say you are a "Fake Girl Geek" because you never really cared for, or had a lot of knowledge of Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.? (Forgive me if I am knocking on you, I do not personally know you nor your interests, just stating in general.)

It is great that you work at a GameStop. More power to ya.

Lastly, you are you. Stay strong, play games you fully enjoy, be introduced to ones you may or may not like. Same thing with movies, TV, and so on.

Thanks, yo. ;_;

I do consider myself a gamer/nerd girl. And your example is great. I don't really care when people try to test my knowledge about Star Wars or Halo just to prove I'm one of the--

Actually! That's another great point I forgot to mention! Guys alienate girls too! Or at least that has happened to me a lot. Every time I'm talking to a customer about, let's say, Dragon Age (A game which I love), most GUY customers feel the need to play 20 questions with me. "What's the name of the ogre guy?" "How does it end?" "Who do you choose who's the new king of Ferelden?" "What are all the origin stories?". So I have to be reaaaaally careful about my words around guys. If I say "I like Halo", oh, boy, people start question me. Then I might reply with a "Well, I like playing with my friends. I don't care much about the story. FPS are not my specialty" and then I might get one of those "Shows how much YOU know!" looks.

What I'm saying is that guys are also pretty defensive about geek girls. They feel the need to approve or authenticate their status. Why can't they just say "Gamer girl? Alright, sounds believable". I mean, what's so weird about it? And this might go back to the original "Fake geek girls" problem. So I stand by what I said: the problem is that it's just annoying. So we should all just stop trying to annoy each other and let each other be. We're on the same side, aren't we?

Guys are not free or fault. They were the first ones to get all defensive about their geek/nerd status for whatever reason. i don't wanna turn this into a game of he-said-she-said. I'd rather ignore it all. But just saying.

acosn:

RoBi3.0:

I wasn't ritualistically bullied as a kid nor did I experience much bullying at all though out me life. Does this mean that even though I have enjoyed nerdy things all my life I am a fake nerd.............. HOLY SHIT guys I think I may be a nerd Cylon. :(

--------------------------------------------------------
Geek culture is for everyone; people are not and can not protect it from anyone. If booth babes are getting someone's pants in a twist, that is their fault for expecting them to uphold a silly ideal. As others have said it is important for "booth babes" to be knowledgeable about the product they are representing. If they are not it is not their fault it is the fault of the person who hired them and the half-assed handling for their business. Expecting a booth babe to know random shit about other things you feel are "geek worthy" is stupid.

In a sense?

No, you're not a nerd. You're not a geek. Liking science fiction / fantasy or video games is not the be all / end all of who's a fucking nerd.

This isn't about booth babes either- its obvious they're a marketing ploy. Anyone who doesn't get that is a moron.

If you've never had to actually stick up for your hobbies, or have never been berated for them, congrats. You're normal. Maybe a bit spineless. Typically, at a very basic level, the pre-requesite for being a "nerd" or a "geek" is, by definition, being so involved in something that you forgo what is considered normal practices. Having an acceptably large social life and social skills. Personal hygiene. You know. Now maybe you just had the most statistically improbable upbringing where you never got shit for anything you ever did, but I find that hard to believe.

Hmm... never said I have never had to stick up for my hobbies nor have I never been berated. I however have never been bullied because I refused to give anyone the pleasure of making me a victim. I caught on pretty early to the fact that 1 people are dicks and 2 their opinions only matter as much as I cared to value them. I stuck up for myself when I had to or there was a point make. I did not experience any trauma that made me want to escape into a Fantasy World. I enjoyed Fantasy Worlds because of their high ideas and awe inspiring adventures.

My childhood however isn't really the point I was trying to make. The notation that a person must have endured some horrible ordeal that the hands of his/her peers is a prerequisite for nerd/geek cultural acceptance is what is interesting, to me. I am not sure that this is a belief that is shared by the nerd/geek culture as a whole.

Also, if I spend an extra 20 minutes a day playing video games or reading comics, instead of showering that means I can be a nerd? That is another interesting concept. Basically to be a nerd you are saying I must cease to function normally and instead devote all efforts into my chosen nerd-dom. Honestly, by your definition there are not very many nerds/geeks in existence. Definitely not enough to populate so many nerd-themed conventions.

oh thank god, i thought this was another video about that stupid article that definitely doesn't need any more exposure...

As stated by several people already and agreed upon by me, the issue with fake geek girls can be summed up with insincerity. If I am talking to a geeky girl or anybody with an interest in anything that it be sincere. For example if I am talking about black holes and somebody claims to love the concept but really does not then it just feels wrong. It is different from someone genuinely inquiring instead of claiming they are something that they are not.

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