The Big Picture: The Girl of Tomorrow

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 NEXT
 

This explains a lot...
If you want to understand what is happening and every long time fan is talking about you better pile up the comics and start reading 70 years of backstory... And whilst at it you might consider a time machine and a moneyprinter while you're at it because it will eat a few decades of constant reading and buying to get all this... Or to shorten it down and lots of simplification supergirl exist due to super-boobies, more or less anyway.
How many times can they kill a character like supergirl before every reader abandoned them? or is it more of a how frequent they do it...?

I do have this feeling talking about supergirl could go on for quite a while with that ending it did however make me laugh for quite some time...

franksands:

badmunky64:
It's episodes like this that remind me that I'm not missing out on anything important from not reading comic books.

You should know that superhero comics (mostly DC and Marvel) are a small part of comics on the whole, there is a lot of great stuff with no capes or underwear over the pants. Check out some of the Image new comics like Saga or Chew.

I definitely second Chew there :) And anyone missed Atomic Robo it's hilarious..

But what many "I don't read comics because they are to complicated to get in to" people miss is that comics are way more than Marvel & DCs big characters and latest spin-offs.
One of my favorite comics that isn't really superhero etc is Gunnerkrigg Court, witch biggest resemblance with Marvel & DC is that it can be described as a "graphical novel", witch I think is just a finer name for comic.

I have never found superman et all interesting enough to be worth the time and effort, however the recent movies are short and self-explained enough so they actually appeal to the people who isn't long time fans of the series. So the comic giants probably understands that many feel a bit scared of the huge universes they have created and are trying to simplify things, before it seems it was just done by separate universes and killing characters..

Finally, someone else who doesn't like Smallville !

Thanks for explaining the Supergirl Cir-El of Superman+Batman. I own all of them and at no point do they explain who the girl with the "S" that's trapped...in a trap with Superboy. By the way...the animation is fine, but the comic is much much better.

As for Supergirl and Powergirl now...Supergirl is off to a decent start. She doesn't like or trust Superman or anyone aside from her one friend on Earth. Powergirl is a monthly excuse for anime style battle damage. Seriously, she's been partially naked every issue, but what's weird is how it completely makes sense. She's indestructible but her poorly designed suit is not. I was never a fan of Powergirl and this new book wont change that. It is, however, the only way to read Huntress so that's that. How they've both managed to avoid Superman/Supergirl and Batman so far is a mystery to me.

Anyway, as convoluted as Supergirls backstory is, she's no where near as bad as Capt. Marvel Carol Danvers (sound familiar?) or any number of DC and Marvel heroins.

Comics are weird.

Capitano Segnaposto:
Wow, this is why I don't much care for comics. So damned confusing. Is the New 52 less annoyingly confusing with less bullshit? Or is it just the same?

No, not really.

Essentially they're taking almost everything that ever happened in the last 70+ years and saying it all happened over a 5 year time period, leaving out certain parts (I'm guessing a few of the universe rebootings are getting left out), Green Lantern's mythos and timeline wasn't effected at all so there's still the original 4 Earth GLs plus a new guy who's mask I continue to laugh at, and some things just seem to have been ignored, erased, folded (Wally West doesn't seem to exist yet as a Flash despite getting his powers before Bart Allen was born and he was the fastest of all the Flashes).

And they re-wrote Wonder Woman's mythos so she's no longer a clay statue given life by the Greek gods because her mother wanted a child and given powers based on their own, now she's the result of an affair between Hypolita and Zeus. The same origin as Wonder Girl. Fail.

And last up there's the complaint I still have about Billy Batson being turned from a kind-hearted innocent boy scout into a rude little shit that insulted the people that were going to adopt him behind their backs and and acts rude toward people that are only trying to befriend him. Granted I did see hints of the old Billy in there when he stopped some bullies from picking on his adoptive brother but it still feels wrong.

Honestly if you want to read comics but are confused by the history, it helps to just read them near a computer. See a character you don't know but seems really important or interesting? Look it up on the Marvel or DC wiki. Bob wasn't kidding when he said comic databases tend to be the most well-kept and accurate pages.

I do like comics... though the way they get convoluted is admittedly a pain...

Maybe it's best we move on to something else next time (loved the talking over the credits bit, BTW.)

Next week: Power Girl

Because, well, it's the only logical place to go.

franksands:

Falseprophet:

In their defense, we're talking about characters that have been around for up to 70+ years, most of whom had at least one, and sometimes several, comic books about them come out every month for many of those decades, and since the rise of the direct market in the last 30 years or so, have mostly been bought by the same hardcore group of 16-40 year old neckbeards who thrive on the continuity--and the vast majority of writers, artists, and editors come from the same group of fans. So what do you do? Appease the few thousand hardcores who are keeping you afloat, or try to branch out and risk failing utterly? Once in a while, Marvel or DC try to do both, which is where things like Crisis on Infinite Earths, the Marvel Ultimates line, and the New 52 come from. But generally, they stay the course and appeal to the existing fanbase, which isn't smart long-term thinking, but there you go.

The more successful movie and series adaptations of superhero comics tend to be those that jettison most of the continuity that only appeals to those few thousand hardcore fans, while focusing on the foundations of the characters, which have more universal appeal. E.g. teenaged nerd gets spider-like superpowers, fails to stop a criminal from killing his uncle, and now feels responsible for fighting crime. Really easy to understand. That same guy married to a supermodel, but in actuality a clone of himself, and he and his wife sell their wedded bliss to the Devil to bring his aunt back to life? WTF?

I think it's impossible to maintain a good coherent compelling story for more than 10 years. Five, if you cut the fillers and bullshit to a minimum. That's why I like the japanese model better: create one story, develop it, finish and be done with it. With rare exceptions, the japanese mangas never have sequels after it's done.

The problem is that all these character "live" as it were in a shared universe and *that* is where the problems come from.

As for the Japanese model that is for the most part an illusion created by how the material comes to the US. Many manga actually start out as serialized fiction (Weekly Shōnen Sunday is very popular in this regard) and we generally only get *part* of the series.

3x3 Eyes for example ran from 1987 to 2002 spanning an insane 40 volumes but we have to date only seen the parts that make up the OVA--a pitiful 6 volumes (made into 8 volumes by Dark Horse)

Tenchi Muyo! is only 18 years old and sports no less then 13 (!!!) different manga continuities (many of which have not been translated into English)

Sailor Moon was only supposed to last through the Beryl arc but popularity resulted in four more manga arcs--resulting in a confused dysfunctional mess that makes Hawkman post-Crisis understandable by comparison.

Dragon ball the manga is nearly as a confused mess as Dragon Ball the animated series.

Ranma 1/2 (one of the few series that came to the US intact) clocks in at 38 volumes spanning 9 years and being a comedy it can get away with being a continuity train wreck.

No Japanese manga are just as a confused dysfunctional mess as US comicbooks--we are just getting a trimmed down version that makes them *appear* to be more coherent.

Butting in for a quick gripe : I haven't read SG comics but holy carp the art for them was farking terrrrrrrrrible. I think this is maybe even worse than the 'tracing over the porn stars' school of superheroine design. 2:59, 3:09, 3;52 aren't great but 4:23 is one of the scariest things I've ever seen. What is going on with that pelvis? Or the abs? Or the crazy little legs? 4:34 must be the same artist, just yeeeegh. Please, somebody hire this guy a model for live figure drawing for an afternoon. Maybe we should start a kickstarter or something...

Holy c#!@! And people ask me why I'm not into comics... Why should I be? This is a story-telling nightmare. I'm sure that hardcore fans of these things - whom by the way I admire greatly for putting up with this nonsense - probably don't see it that way, but still... Comic book writers try to arouse (and eventually hide behind) an air of complexity, but really - it's just obtuse.

Is it a good or bad thing that I already knew all of this?

This is exactly why I don't read superhero comics. In any other medium that much concentrated bullshit would rightly be called out as bad writing.

Not that the video series wasn't entertaining, it's still fun to get the reader's digest version of all this.

Bob's "I'm not getting into that" and "Nobody cares" pretty sums my feelings about everything DC except my undying love for Batman :P

muffinatorXII:
Jesus Christ what a mindfuck

My thoughts exactly. I think I'm going to have to go lie down.

franksands:

Falseprophet:

In their defense, we're talking about characters that have been around for up to 70+ years, most of whom had at least one, and sometimes several, comic books about them come out every month for many of those decades, and since the rise of the direct market in the last 30 years or so, have mostly been bought by the same hardcore group of 16-40 year old neckbeards who thrive on the continuity--and the vast majority of writers, artists, and editors come from the same group of fans. So what do you do? Appease the few thousand hardcores who are keeping you afloat, or try to branch out and risk failing utterly? Once in a while, Marvel or DC try to do both, which is where things like Crisis on Infinite Earths, the Marvel Ultimates line, and the New 52 come from. But generally, they stay the course and appeal to the existing fanbase, which isn't smart long-term thinking, but there you go.

The more successful movie and series adaptations of superhero comics tend to be those that jettison most of the continuity that only appeals to those few thousand hardcore fans, while focusing on the foundations of the characters, which have more universal appeal. E.g. teenaged nerd gets spider-like superpowers, fails to stop a criminal from killing his uncle, and now feels responsible for fighting crime. Really easy to understand. That same guy married to a supermodel, but in actuality a clone of himself, and he and his wife sell their wedded bliss to the Devil to bring his aunt back to life? WTF?

I think it's impossible to maintain a good coherent compelling story for more than 10 years. Five, if you cut the fillers and bullshit to a minimum. That's why I like the japanese model better: create one story, develop it, finish and be done with it. With rare exceptions, the japanese mangas never have sequels after it's done.

Single person web comics can last for years without issues. Look at Dominic Deegan or Something Positive as solid examples of single man events that have both solid continuity and long lasting stories.

I just wanted to say that I enjoyed the extended ending over the credits. I don't know if that's a gimmick you want to do every week, but I think it would be fun to see/hear again.

Man, new 52 is annoying, 5 batman comics plus 7 others starring batman family members. (Dark Knight, Batman, Batman and Robin, Detective comics, Batman incorporated) then family (Nightwing, Batgirl, Batwing, Teen Titans, Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Catwoman) ugh... I stopped buying them, I like to keep up with everything, can't justify the cost :( will only buy really good arcs from now on.

vxicepickxv:

franksands:

Falseprophet:

In their defense, we're talking about characters that have been around for up to 70+ years, most of whom had at least one, and sometimes several, comic books about them come out every month for many of those decades, and since the rise of the direct market in the last 30 years or so, have mostly been bought by the same hardcore group of 16-40 year old neckbeards who thrive on the continuity--and the vast majority of writers, artists, and editors come from the same group of fans. So what do you do? Appease the few thousand hardcores who are keeping you afloat, or try to branch out and risk failing utterly? Once in a while, Marvel or DC try to do both, which is where things like Crisis on Infinite Earths, the Marvel Ultimates line, and the New 52 come from. But generally, they stay the course and appeal to the existing fanbase, which isn't smart long-term thinking, but there you go.

The more successful movie and series adaptations of superhero comics tend to be those that jettison most of the continuity that only appeals to those few thousand hardcore fans, while focusing on the foundations of the characters, which have more universal appeal. E.g. teenaged nerd gets spider-like superpowers, fails to stop a criminal from killing his uncle, and now feels responsible for fighting crime. Really easy to understand. That same guy married to a supermodel, but in actuality a clone of himself, and he and his wife sell their wedded bliss to the Devil to bring his aunt back to life? WTF?

I think it's impossible to maintain a good coherent compelling story for more than 10 years. Five, if you cut the fillers and bullshit to a minimum. That's why I like the japanese model better: create one story, develop it, finish and be done with it. With rare exceptions, the japanese mangas never have sequels after it's done.

Single person web comics can last for years without issues. Look at Dominic Deegan or Something Positive as solid examples of single man events that have both solid continuity and long lasting stories.

To be fair, web-comics are small, self-contained, and creator-owned, and having one author throughout means greater control over story continuity. Most comics (the big ones, at least) have none of these advantages. We're talking about characters that have decades upon decades of stories across multiple titles (usually at the same time) with multiple authors (who are usually switched out every few years) who have to answer to editorial demands. There's no good way to keep a character around that long, while keeping him fresh and interesting, without building up a mess of continuity. Sometimes, we need necessary evils like Infinite Crisis and New 52 to throw out or change things around to keep everything in order.

Of course, in an ideal world, authors could just write whatever they wanted without having to worry about all this nonsense, but good luck convincing fans to completely throw out continuity. I believe Bob has pointed this out before, and it is the truth: nerds love their continuity. I'm as guilty of it as anyone else.

themilo504:
So wait Christianity and Greek mythology both exists in the dc universe?
Did any writer ever do anything with that fact? Establish how that works?

Angels exist in a lot of faiths beyond Christianity. Judaism, Islam, Hinduism (although they're more like demigods there), modern Paganism, etc.

Unless there's a specifically Christian reference that I missed...

Besides, if we're going to be really petty for a moment, Christianity doesn't actually rule out there being more than one god. The Bible simply forbids worshipping any god other than Yahweh. It doesn't (to my knowledge) say there aren't any other gods. (And one might suggest that there's no point having the "have no gods before me" rule if no other gods exist anyway.)

So the idea of Yahweh and the Greek gods existing in the same reality is fine in my head.

Next week, Batgirl! Ha ha ha.

I started getting lost the moment it turned out that the Supergirl from the cartoon show wasn't the same Supergirl as the original one. Because my brain went, "What, they're different? But how--" and by then, it was too late. Lost on the endless sea of comic books. Oh well. Still a fun video to watch. I like these ones that are about comics.

I feel like Bob should stop talking about comics for awhile. Either that or explain what the hell is with Capitan Marvel.

First time I've watched Movie Bob and all I can think when he trails off at the end is, "I'm Cave Johnson. We're done here."

MetalMagpie:

themilo504:
So wait Christianity and Greek mythology both exists in the dc universe?
Did any writer ever do anything with that fact? Establish how that works?

Angels exist in a lot of faiths beyond Christianity. Judaism, Islam, Hinduism (although they're more like demigods there), modern Paganism, etc.

Unless there's a specifically Christian reference that I missed...

Besides, if we're going to be really petty for a moment, Christianity doesn't actually rule out there being more than one god. The Bible simply forbids worshipping any god other than Yahweh. It doesn't (to my knowledge) say there aren't any other gods. (And one might suggest that there's no point having the "have no gods before me" rule if no other gods exist anyway.)

So the idea of Yahweh and the Greek gods existing in the same reality is fine in my head.

In fact is is mandatory for Billy Batson Shazam's powers to work as his first power (the Wisdom of Solomon) comes from Yahweh while the rest come from Roman gods, a Titan, and a demi-god.

Gotta be my favorite episode of this little Super Girl trilogy, mostly because of all the uses of phrases meaning "No one cared, moving on."

As entertaining and enlightning as these past three episodes have been, I have to say Bob, I think that phrase pretty much sums things up. :P

And of course, Sentient Captcha seems to agree:
"ball of confusion"

franksands:

I think it's impossible to maintain a good coherent compelling story for more than 10 years. Five, if you cut the fillers and bullshit to a minimum. That's why I like the japanese model better: create one story, develop it, finish and be done with it. With rare exceptions, the japanese mangas never have sequels after it's done.

My thoughts exactly.

Manga develops its characters, brings the story to a satisfying conclusion and is done once its over. One of the reasons I can't get invested into things like bleach, its just been going on for way to long.

Capitano Segnaposto:
Wow, this is why I don't much care for comics. So damned confusing. Is the New 52 less annoyingly confusing with less bullshit? Or is it just the same?

or you could just bypass the two major publishers (and superheros) alltogether

Elois:

My thoughts exactly.

Manga develops its characters, brings the story to a satisfying conclusion and is done once its over. One of the reasons I can't get invested into things like bleach, its just been going on for way to long.

you know...comics do that too.....its jsut no one seems to know that

badmunky64:
It's episodes like this that remind me that I'm not missing out on anything important from not reading comic books.

again it honestly saddens me this BS is the face of the comic medium....that I have to keep reminding people bob superhero stuff exists

Did you REALLY say Smallvile sucked?

No, I misheard you because no sane person could have said that sentence. (PS: I do not watch many shows on TV. I have only seen up to season 7 on DVD)

Eri:
It's not hard to start. Start with the New 52, I did, and I love it so far. Plus 52 version of her looks awesome.

0_0.....shes not wearing pants!

Sniper Team 4:
Next week, Batgirl! Ha ha ha.

Would like it if someone would explain why Barbara is Batgirl and can magically walk again while the previous Batgirl just fell off the planet.

superdelux:
Is it a good or bad thing that I already knew all of this?

Depends on who you talk to and want to share your Supergirl knowledge with. I knew most of this from the last 3 episodes, but I liked how Bob applied it to women in comics, and how it symbolized the prevalent "mood" at the time. A lot of the time I just nodded in agreement and laughed when he got off the rails (like some of Supergirl's character history).

captcha: drum head
I bet some people feel like they have one after watching this

Mr_Terrific:

Sniper Team 4:
Next week, Batgirl! Ha ha ha.

Would like it if someone would explain why Barbara is Batgirl and can magically walk again while the previous Batgirl just fell off the planet.

When Bob started this series on the "Geek Girl" foot, I thought it would be about Batgirl. Isn't Barbara gordon a huge geek in her own right? I think she was inspired to make her own costume from just looking at Batman's suit. And the computer skills she picked up as Oracle.

captcha: ShinglesInfo.com
Well there goes sleeping comfortably ever again. Thanks a pantload.

K84:
Actually, new 52 SuperGirl is pretty different from all the previous incarnations.
The fact that she hates beeing on Earth and might even be more powerfull than Supes himself is pretty interesting.
That and the new updated look works for me, but that's my personal taste.

Gawd...Matrix Supergirl....*totally blocked that*

Yup. 15 issues into the current run and she still refuses to learn English, as a way to preserve how much of her life from Krypton as she can. There's more depth to Kara Zor-El now in the nu52, like refusing to accept her cousin Kal-El grew up without her and she thinks Superboy (who she called Kon-El as an insult) will degenerate to a mindless savage because he's a clone.

Elijah Newton:
Butting in for a quick gripe : I haven't read SG comics but holy carp the art for them was farking terrrrrrrrrible. I think this is maybe even worse than the 'tracing over the porn stars' school of superheroine design. 2:59, 3:09, 3;52 aren't great but 4:23 is one of the scariest things I've ever seen. What is going on with that pelvis? Or the abs? Or the crazy little legs? 4:34 must be the same artist, just yeeeegh. Please, somebody hire this guy a model for live figure drawing for an afternoon. Maybe we should start a kickstarter or something...

Must... Contain... Fan... Rage...

Ok, I gotta admit, I'm not a Marvel or DC guy. In fact, the only Supergirl comic I have ever bought is the Superman/Batman arc, and that was only because of the artwork. Which was pencilled by Michael Turner. Now, I'll admit, Supergirl is not his strongest female character design (That would go - hands down - to Aspen Matthews from Fathom) but he is - or I should rather - sadly, of course - say was one of the best pencillers in the business. Go check out some of his other work. Early Witchblade, Fathom, and perhaps Soulfire (though admittedly the story for that sucked ass, because he was dying from cancer at the time).

/end fanrage.

Nothing personal mate, I just... his artwork is what got me into comics in the first place, so I kinda owe him a debt...

Captcha: Sweet dreams. Amen to that Captcha...

...so where the heck did that last Supergirl come from? I thought she was supposed to have never existed in that universe?

Next week: POWER Girl.

Because, seriously, there's a Power Girl in the new 52 with a totally different origin where she's actually the original Earth-2 Supergirl who was supposed to have died but didn't and she's best friends with Batman's daughter, former girl Robin, current Huntress, and they're now trapped in the current DC universe, and she for some reason loses her clothes about every issue, but she has no cleavage window so it's not sexist or anything, for reals....

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here