The Big Picture: The Girl of Tomorrow

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I would just like to point out that I love Peter David. He's currently my favorite writer in comic books.

I absolutely loved his She-Hulk series, and right now his work on X-Factor is my favorite comic book.

If X-Factor ever gets cancelled, I will totally pick up whatever series David decides to write next (kinda like how Daniel Way left Deadpool to do Thunderbolts for Marvel Now...which features Deadpool lol)

Hey Bob, slightly off topic, but as my favorite source of neat comic book information, and as the one who basically told me about the series in the first place, is there any way you would ever dedicated an episode to talking about Arrow?

Lol, they decided that the only back story that made any sense was the original back story. It took them, 50 years to figure it out?

MetalMagpie:
ff

image

See this guy?
Yeah, he talks with God often. He's the Angel of Vengeance, ya see.

had to laugh at the end, "dont care, we are done."

K84:
Actually, new 52 SuperGirl is pretty different from all the previous incarnations.
The fact that she hates beeing on Earth and might even be more powerfull than Supes himself is pretty interesting.
That and the new updated look works for me, but that's my personal taste.

Gawd...Matrix Supergirl....*totally blocked that*

and this is supergirl we are talking about? not powergirl?

for some reason I'm tempted to start reading...

unacomn:
That Fallen Angle cover, that's Illyria guest starring? As in, one of the greatest moments in the history of facepunch Illyria?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH-cfA30wl0

Wait, how does that work? If the main character of "Fallen Angel" was once Supergirl and Illyria guest stars in it, does that make the Buffyverse part of the DC multiverse? o_O

Best advice I can give to anyone looking to "get into superhero comics" don't buy issues, buy trades.

I'm living in the UK atm so I don't know what equivalent any of you guys would have to Forbidden Planet, but if I'm ever on a comics kick I just hit up my local and buy a couple of trades that look interesting or feature characters that I like in other media.

For instance I became quite fond of Green Arrow recently after watching his spotlight of episodes in JLU, so I picked up the "Archer's Quest" trade, it wasn't fantastic, but worth the read and for 8 quid I'd call it a good deal. There were elements of the back story featured that I wasn't entirely familiar with, but I got to know them through reading the comic and doing the smallest bit of research.

TV tropes is actually good for this aswell because if they have a page dedicated to a particular trade or storyline for a character then you can assume that its interesting enough to be worth reading. This has been the reason that I picked up both "Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" and "Whatever happened to the Caped Crusader?" two really great stories.

The super hero stories that last tend to be the ones that use continuity as a jumping off point, not shackle themselves too it, alot of those stories are collected in Trades.

For instance from this episode I'd be interested to read a collection of Peter David's work on Supergirl and might just have a look for it next time I'm in FP.

My mind ... it derped. Hard.

Crap this is why I can't get into comics. So random, like more random then anime mangas can get. Yeah I know that anime and mangas can be off the wall weird and crazy but least the concepts can make sense. Nothing in DC or Marvel can make sense unless you're a brilliant fellow who kept track or just understands comics which I salute you for.

Supergirl has an appeal to her, but no one I would get interested in reading about. Batman still at large especially due to the movies.

Such a huge clusterfuck, thanks for the history lesson Bobby.

Seriously... screw western superhero comics... I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT HALF THOSE WORDS MEAN'T!!!

Wonderwomen thinks she can help 0_0

That made me laugh.

Caramel Frappe:

Crap this is why I can't get into comics. So random, like more random then anime mangas can get. Yeah I know that anime and mangas can be off the wall weird and crazy but least the concepts can make sense. Nothing in DC or Marvel can make sense unless you're a brilliant fellow who kept track or just understands comics which I salute you for.
.

theres plenty on offer from western comics that isnt suepr hero related...

just now Ive really wanted to read the new 52 of supergirl (which seems like a good starting point if I can fidn the trade), I also just got wonderwoman which is aparently suposed to be good

Is the Core Fanbase really that obsessive about continuity among different character arcs? Jesus.

It would have been easier if DC and Marvel re-used the characters for different self-contained story arcs, then just stuck with the idea of "same character, different story, what the hell". It's not like anyone gives The Simpsons too much grief for never having anything stick - why not comics?

Shameless:
Finally, someone else who doesn't like Smallville !

I wasn't aware that that was a minority <.<.

saintdane05:

MetalMagpie:
ff

image

See this guy?
Yeah, he talks with God often. He's the Angel of Vengeance, ya see.

Look at that skank, his boobs are out and everything.

This is my problem with comics, all this blatant sexism. They keep telling me that the bare chest is to express how he's an open book, but honestly we all know the truth, folks just want to see his breasts.

saintdane05:

MetalMagpie:
ff

image

See this guy?
Yeah, he talks with God often. He's the Angel of Vengeance, ya see.

Does he talk with any particular god? Just "God" is not very specific.

maximara:

MetalMagpie:

themilo504:
So wait Christianity and Greek mythology both exists in the dc universe?
Did any writer ever do anything with that fact? Establish how that works?

Angels exist in a lot of faiths beyond Christianity. Judaism, Islam, Hinduism (although they're more like demigods there), modern Paganism, etc.

Unless there's a specifically Christian reference that I missed...

Besides, if we're going to be really petty for a moment, Christianity doesn't actually rule out there being more than one god. The Bible simply forbids worshipping any god other than Yahweh. It doesn't (to my knowledge) say there aren't any other gods. (And one might suggest that there's no point having the "have no gods before me" rule if no other gods exist anyway.)

So the idea of Yahweh and the Greek gods existing in the same reality is fine in my head.

In fact is is mandatory for Billy Batson Shazam's powers to work as his first power (the Wisdom of Solomon) comes from Yahweh while the rest come from Roman gods, a Titan, and a demi-god.

That's quite cool, actually. So the DC universe really does have a completely mixed mythology.

Does anyone know if the Marvel universe does the same sort of thing? We know both the Devil and the Norse gods exist, but I thought Thor and co. weren't actually meant to be real gods anyway.

Darth_Payn:

K84:
Actually, new 52 SuperGirl is pretty different from all the previous incarnations.
The fact that she hates beeing on Earth and might even be more powerfull than Supes himself is pretty interesting.
That and the new updated look works for me, but that's my personal taste.

Gawd...Matrix Supergirl....*totally blocked that*

Yup. 15 issues into the current run and she still refuses to learn English, as a way to preserve how much of her life from Krypton as she can. There's more depth to Kara Zor-El now in the nu52, like refusing to accept her cousin Kal-El grew up without her and she thinks Superboy (who she called Kon-El as an insult) will degenerate to a mindless savage because he's a clone.

Why not?
My next door neighbour from India lives here for over 20 years and still does'nt speak a word of the Dutch language.
She stubbornly clings on to her native tongue while nobody actually speaks it around these parts.

People can be stubborn and proud and Kara is from a world lightyears beyond our "savage" underdeveloped world.
One of the last survivors of a race long gone, why would'nt somebody like that try and preserve one of the most advanced cultures ever known?
Even in such a little way?

And did Kal-El grow up?, the Supes since the reboot is kind of a dick.
As for Superboy, pff.....really, he's some kind of Frankenstein science project, and maybe Kara knows what happens when you mix Kryptionian DNA with other species...

awwwww, but i want more supergirl... do aquaman next!

Wait, so where did Meteor!Supergirl come from? Is the space-time continuum just that screwed up by this point or..?

I GOT IT!!!
I realized why I find Power Girl's outfit strange
No pants or skirt- it looks like she is wearing swimsuit with a cape
Good that this is rare... wait a minute...
[Wonderwoman, Black Canary, Huntress, Star Sapphire, Andromeda, Artemis, Dream Girl, Harbinger, Iroque, Knockout, Maxima, Nightstar, Phantom Lady, Spider-Girl, Cir-El, Terra]
DAMMIT, can't unsee it anymore :(
Wearing swimsuit to the combat apparently is quite popular amongst superheroines
I would argue the practicality of this, but what's the point?

Also
Next week- Power Girl, again (hey, it's not "Super Girl")
C'mon, Bob, my inner mathematician is furious- it is either 2 or 4 weeks, not 3 or 5.

rayen020:
awwwww, but i want more supergirl... do aquaman next!

Thank you for feeding my nightmares for next few days.
Because I imagined Bob doing Aquaman, and that wasn't pretty :(

I am honestly flabbergasted at how Bob was able to get all that info let alone understand it.

I love Bobs Superhero coverages and I would honestly watch a show with Bob exclusively talking about Superheroes.

From what I can gather there are about 5 Supergirl's

1. First Supergirl
2. PowerGirl (because titties)
3. Matrix (robot supergirl)
4. Animated series Supergirl (school girl outfit)
5. Born again new Supergirl

whew.....this got complicated.

Ill just stick with big tit power girl and reboot super girl.

sometimes Comics need a good old "lobo kills everyone to simplify the plot"

Gilhelmi:
Did you REALLY say Smallvile sucked?

No, I misheard you because no sane person could have said that sentence. (PS: I do not watch many shows on TV. I have only seen up to season 7 on DVD)

If you stop now you may be able to retain your naive appreciation for the show. The Fortress gets pulled down on Lex and Clark, cut to black, walk away from the show RIGHT NOW.

After season 7, Michael Rosenbaum - who was the best actor among the cast - left the show, as did the two creators and most of the original production staff. Some people still liked the show after that, but hey, some people like Doctor Who under the management of Steven Moffat more than Russell Davies, also.

The stuff they do in season 8 with Doomsday and certain major characters in the Superman mythos made me regret staying with the show, and I abandoned it for the last two seasons.

Just walk away now while you still have no regrets.

MetalMagpie:

saintdane05:

MetalMagpie:
ff

image

See this guy?
Yeah, he talks with God often. He's the Angel of Vengeance, ya see.

Does he talk with any particular god? Just "God" is not very specific.

Confirmed to be the Christian one.

The_Waspman:

Elijah Newton:
Butting in for a quick gripe : I haven't read SG comics but holy carp the art for them was farking terrrrrrrrrible. I think this is maybe even worse than the 'tracing over the porn stars' school of superheroine design. 2:59, 3:09, 3;52 aren't great but 4:23 is one of the scariest things I've ever seen. What is going on with that pelvis? Or the abs? Or the crazy little legs? 4:34 must be the same artist, just yeeeegh. Please, somebody hire this guy a model for live figure drawing for an afternoon. Maybe we should start a kickstarter or something...

Must... Contain... Fan... Rage...

Ok, I gotta admit, I'm not a Marvel or DC guy. In fact, the only Supergirl comic I have ever bought is the Superman/Batman arc, and that was only because of the artwork. Which was pencilled by Michael Turner. Now, I'll admit, Supergirl is not his strongest female character design (That would go - hands down - to Aspen Matthews from Fathom) but he is - or I should rather - sadly, of course - say was one of the best pencillers in the business. Go check out some of his other work. Early Witchblade, Fathom, and perhaps Soulfire (though admittedly the story for that sucked ass, because he was dying from cancer at the time).

/end fanrage.

Nothing personal mate, I just... his artwork is what got me into comics in the first place, so I kinda owe him a debt...

Captcha: Sweet dreams. Amen to that Captcha...

Holy crap, I had no idea. I'm so sorry. It's one thing for someone to critique an artist's work when they're around and can adapt to the criticism (or blow it off as the sour-grapes whinging, which it also was), and entirely something else to speak ill of the dead. I had no idea and absolutely would not have gone there had I known.

I wish you the best and apologize for treading so thoughtlessly on your inspiration. I deserved more fan rage than you dished out, thank you for holding back.

Elijah Newton:
Holy crap, I had no idea. I'm so sorry. It's one thing for someone to critique an artist's work when they're around and can adapt to the criticism (or blow it off as the sour-grapes whinging, which it also was), and entirely something else to speak ill of the dead. I had no idea and absolutely would not have gone there had I known.

I wish you the best and apologize for treading so thoughtlessly on your inspiration. I deserved more fan rage than you dished out, thank you for holding back.

Hey man, don't worry about it. It's not like I'm really in a rage about this its just... As I say, if you go check out his body of work, you'll see that he was an absolutely awesome artist. And one that was taken from us far, far too soon.

*single manly tear*

Its just such a shame that Marvel and DC overshadow pretty much everything else.

Peace.

TheSchaef:

Gilhelmi:
Did you REALLY say Smallvile sucked?

No, I misheard you because no sane person could have said that sentence. (PS: I do not watch many shows on TV. I have only seen up to season 7 on DVD)

If you stop now you may be able to retain your naive appreciation for the show. The Fortress gets pulled down on Lex and Clark, cut to black, walk away from the show RIGHT NOW.

After season 7, Michael Rosenbaum - who was the best actor among the cast - left the show, as did the two creators and most of the original production staff. Some people still liked the show after that, but hey, some people like Doctor Who under the management of Steven Moffat more than Russell Davies, also.

The stuff they do in season 8 with Doomsday and certain major characters in the Superman mythos made me regret staying with the show, and I abandoned it for the last two seasons.

Just walk away now while you still have no regrets.

I wish I could take that as just a joke, but the tone of your writing suggests you are being serious. How sad.

In light of that I will make a joke,

Next you will tell me Santa Clause is not real, or the Easter bunny does not lay eggs for me outside.

Caramel Frappe:
My mind ... it derped. Hard.

Crap this is why I can't get into comics. So random, like more random then anime mangas can get. Yeah I know that anime and mangas can be off the wall weird and crazy but least the concepts can make sense. Nothing in DC or Marvel can make sense unless you're a brilliant fellow who kept track or just understands comics which I salute you for.

Supergirl has an appeal to her, but no one I would get interested in reading about. Batman still at large especially due to the movies.

A friend of mine made a hilarious comment on both comics and manga/anime:

"Comics make something absurd sound normal. Manga makes something normal sound absurd."

Caramel Frappe:
My mind ... it derped. Hard.

Crap this is why I can't get into comics. So random, like more random then anime mangas can get. Yeah I know that anime and mangas can be off the wall weird and crazy but least the concepts can make sense. Nothing in DC or Marvel can make sense unless you're a brilliant fellow who kept track or just understands comics which I salute you for.

Supergirl has an appeal to her, but no one I would get interested in reading about. Batman still at large especially due to the movies.

Keep in mind that what Bob was talking about was literally 50 years of history, of which 49years are no longer in-continuity. Sure it might be interesting if you've grown to like a character, but you don't need to know anything about it to enjoy today's character. Plus, with the internet and the fairly detailed wiki's that are common place these days it's not exactly hard to do some further reading if you're really interested in the history.

Supergirl was rebooted, along with nearly all of the DC Universe, in September last year. If you want to read about Supergirl, pick up Supergirl #1 (November 2011) and go from there. You can buy them in a digital format for your PC or tablet from Comixology (DC's official digital sales partner) if you want.

Gilhelmi:
I wish I could take that as just a joke, but the tone of your writing suggests you are being serious. How sad.

In light of that I will make a joke,

Next you will tell me Santa Clause is not real, or the Easter bunny does not lay eggs for me outside.

Think of me more like Ramirez to your MacLeod. "When Smallville died I was shattered. I would save you that pain. Please, let Doomsday go."

MacLeod chose the pain of loss to experience love, as have you that same option.

I love how Bob sometimes has these fruedian slip moments where he'll say something that sounds fine, but reveals an underlying bias. For example in this video he refers to the death of Supergirl as "violence against women."

Its not violence against women, its just violence... An considering that not only does the Flash die in this series, along with black Superman & countless worlds before our very eyes, its funny that he fixated on the fact that Supergirl dies & phrases it as "violence against women."

So tell me, is the death of the flash then to be considered "violence against men?" :)

K84:

Darth_Payn:

K84:
Actually, new 52 SuperGirl is pretty different from all the previous incarnations.
The fact that she hates beeing on Earth and might even be more powerfull than Supes himself is pretty interesting.
That and the new updated look works for me, but that's my personal taste.

Gawd...Matrix Supergirl....*totally blocked that*

Yup. 15 issues into the current run and she still refuses to learn English, as a way to preserve how much of her life from Krypton as she can. There's more depth to Kara Zor-El now in the nu52, like refusing to accept her cousin Kal-El grew up without her and she thinks Superboy (who she called Kon-El as an insult) will degenerate to a mindless savage because he's a clone.

Why not?
My next door neighbour from India lives here for over 20 years and still does'nt speak a word of the Dutch language.
She stubbornly clings on to her native tongue while nobody actually speaks it around these parts.

People can be stubborn and proud and Kara is from a world lightyears beyond our "savage" underdeveloped world.
One of the last survivors of a race long gone, why would'nt somebody like that try and preserve one of the most advanced cultures ever known?
Even in such a little way?

And did Kal-El grow up?, the Supes since the reboot is kind of a dick.
As for Superboy, pff.....really, he's some kind of Frankenstein science project, and maybe Kara knows what happens when you mix Kryptionian DNA with other species...

Right, Krypton culture was so advanced that they couldn't figure out their planet was going to blow up or how to save themselves. Let's be honest until Byrne's Superman the people of Krypton came of as clueless arrogant morons. "Jor-el, the world clock shows the planet has *billions* of years of life left"...and several months later the planet blows up.

And after that piece of idiocy in the Silver age they still didn't get the point. Like that story where Kandor's populous were led to believe Superman lied to them then he had the means to enlarge them but didn't use it because he like seeing them suffer or some such nonsense. (Superman (Vol.1) No. 158 Jan 1963) Well there *was* a reason--the process would eventually cause the atoms of the enlarged object to drift apart after three hours effectively disintegrating it. First rule of science--test your theory and yet these people of a scientifically advance culture do *not* do this.

And it got *worse* as time went on. 'Superman witness us releasing this prisoner from the Phantom zone. 'Oh what this one do? Try to enslave the planet, slaughter thousands?' 'No, he tried to save us.' Compared to these guys the Pakleds of TNG (we look for things) look like total geniuses. By the time Crisis came around Kryrton looked less a great noble culture and more like 'tell me again how these guys crossed the street without falling over'.

Thankfully most of the versions of Krypton we have seen since Byrne have made the Kryptonian less moronic.

maximara:
By the time Crisis came around Kryrton looked less a great noble culture and more like 'tell me again how these guys crossed the street without falling over'.

I always assumed that they were an entire species of climate change deniers with blogs... You know, the ones who say they know everything about climate change, but got there scientography degree's from "shit some guy on a blog said anonymously university."

Though to be fair, "shit some guy on a blog said anonymously university" is better known for its sports program... Oh sure, none of them play sport, but they are all experts on every sport ever... As long as you don't question them on there supposed expertise.

Eri:

Ragsnstitches:
Soooo... I guess that means it's too late to get into this? I mean, where do you start?

Seriously? And people say Metal Gear is convoluted... (it is, but this is completely off the charts in comparison).

Capitano Segnaposto:
Wow, this is why I don't much care for comics. So damned confusing. Is the New 52 less annoyingly confusing with less bullshit? Or is it just the same?

It's not hard to start. Start with the New 52, I did, and I love it so far. Plus 52 version of her looks awesome.

Wow look at the amount of near vag on that costume... V52 Super-girl must have to shave like constantly O_0

maximara:

Right, Krypton culture was so advanced that they couldn't figure out their planet was going to blow up or how to save themselves. Let's be honest until Byrne's Superman the people of Krypton came of as clueless arrogant morons. "Jor-el, the world clock shows the planet has *billions* of years of life left"...and several months later the planet blows up.

Thankfully most of the versions of Krypton we have seen since Byrne have made the Kryptonian less moronic.

*high five*

I love the Escapist just for people like you, debating fictional alien worlds and such^^

matthew_lane:

maximara:
By the time Crisis came around Kryrton looked less a great noble culture and more like 'tell me again how these guys crossed the street without falling over'.

I always assumed that they were an entire species of climate change deniers with blogs... You know, the ones who say they know everything about climate change, but got there scientography degree's from "shit some guy on a blog said anonymously university."

Though to be fair, "shit some guy on a blog said anonymously university" is better known for its sports program... Oh sure, none of them play sport, but they are all experts on every sport ever... As long as you don't question them on there supposed expertise.

The problem is that Silver-Bronze Age Krypton was very wonky. One story would tell us how Jor-El was exiled off planet (requiring Krypton to have a fully functional space program) and yet elsewhere we are told that Jor-El had to test spacecraft as if there had never been a space program.

Furthermore via many of the alternate histories stories one of Superman's marvelous probability machine would show we saw that Krypton had computerize safeguards to prevent unqualified people from getting into position where they could do serious damage. Of course in said story the computerize safeguard promptly malfunctions and people are put into positions they are *not* suited for--makes you wonder about Krypton's Q&A department.

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