Zero Punctuation: Call of Duty: Black Ops 2

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tifa77:
TAdamson its a wider issue. We all know the western world experiences a higher quality of life then most other areas but there's no need to attribute that to 'whiteness'. Checking your white privilege lumps all whites into a super rich elite group that all laugh down at the poor minorities attempts to break even with the institutionalized racism that they face everyday. In reality there is an underclass and the rich. Most people live in the underclass including most whites and most of the minorities.

This goes hand in hand with the guilt complex that many white people in the public eye have adopted because its the populist mindset at the moment. The fact that white history is solely made up of us oppressing everyone and being the demons of the world when white history is responsible for much of the advancement of the human race. Name me one race that hasn't waged war against another people in the past?

The white privilege buzz word is just the latest attempt to guilt whites for simply existing. As an Australian you should remember this on your national sorry day.

National Sorry Day? When we acknowledge things done by my ancestors to Natives Australians?

Should I not acknowledge the things that were done? Should they never be mentioned because it makes some Anglo-Celtic Australians uncomfortable? Sorry. No. That would be shameful, as denying the holocaust is shameful. But when people talk to Germans about World War 2 they don't get all touchy about us guilting them "for simply existing".

There is no reason to deny that Australian Colonisation involved the dispossession of a Native people from their land, sometimes murders and massacres, and later the removal of native children from their families leaving a legacy that still bears living witnesses.

The idea that there is some agenda to guilt whites for simply existing is preposterous. You should be ashamed of making such a weak argument.

If someone is trying to make you feel bad then you have the option of not feeling bad. It's not hard. Its not like they're killing or enslaving you.

Checking your white privilege just means the

Cecilthedarkknight_234:
That's not fair Ben, I only play this for the multi player pfttt, this is no longer valid argument. Oh I miss the old days of playing shooter game while having fun.

Treblaine:
Hmm, didn't even mention Zombies or Multiplayer.

When that is all ANYONE ELSE is talking about and pretty much the entire reason for the series success. Seriously, hardly anyone gives a shit about the single player.

Serious now: did I miss the memo when he said he categorically refuses to consider multiplayer, because he didn't state anything like that since he reviewed the ONLINE GAME of DayZ only 2 months ago.

you must have missed yatzee's memo about multiplayer in games. If your only selling point is just multiplayer then you are doing it wrong. A fps game needs a strong single player campaign to stand on it's and engage you with a compelling story.

Yeah? Tell that to the entire Battlefield franchise prior to Bad Company.

Wow. Quite the thread this week.

Maybe next week he could cover something a little less incendiary. Like Pong. Or maybe Asteroids.

what a load of spunkgargleweewee

a

maninahat:
Man there's a lot of bullshit in this thread. It's a sad fact that a person can't make glib references to politics or race without it turning into a massive debate. Yahtzee is snarking about video game jingoism, not writing a essay. Treat his remarks for what they are, and think before you launch into a 1000 word counter-argument on the subject of white guilt. There is no point in arguing with a slogan.

Not when said slogan maker is revered as a demi-god and the last final word on a hobby by so many people.

No, he's not snarking on video game jingoism, he dived right into the pit of political discourse, and if he's gonna act like a gladiator in that arena, he's gonna tangle with the lions just like the rest of us.

TAdamson:

What? Were you expecting an essay on the Iran-Contra affair in the middle of a cartoon video game review?

If he's going to sit on the mountain and yell down at all of us evil racist white people on the basis of picking on a poor innocent Nicaraguan "freedom fighter", you goddamn right I do!

Oh no wait. You just want to point out that Nicaraguan narco-terrorists are bad guys despite the fact the game glosses over the fact that the US has a less than stellar record on that subject.

Forfuckssake. It features Colonel Oliver North in a cutscene and is partially set in Nicaragua in 1986 but nope... The fact that that year North was giving money to the Contras (Anti-Communist Nicaraguan Drug Terrorists) gets no playtime....

AND THEN, Activision has the balls to use North in their advertising. Awesome.

The game even has the Contras "rape and murder" Menendez's people.... And then the CIA assassinates his father and later some of the game's protagonists fuck up and kill his sister. But no, he's totally the bad guy not the product of botched American interventions.

They're BOTH pieces of shit. North was a oppurtunist and svengali of the worst kind, and the Contras were nothing but a glorified street gang who, say it with me now, FUCKED OVER THEIR OWN PEOPLE.

But according to the gaming world's self appointed equivalent of Huey Newton, it's not THEIR fault that they treated their countrymen in ways that would make even the Mendele' cartel enforces wince. They're innocent!

TAdamson:

tifa77:
TAdamson its a wider issue. We all know the western world experiences a higher quality of life then most other areas but there's no need to attribute that to 'whiteness'. Checking your white privilege lumps all whites into a super rich elite group that all laugh down at the poor minorities attempts to break even with the institutionalized racism that they face everyday. In reality there is an underclass and the rich. Most people live in the underclass including most whites and most of the minorities.

This goes hand in hand with the guilt complex that many white people in the public eye have adopted because its the populist mindset at the moment. The fact that white history is solely made up of us oppressing everyone and being the demons of the world when white history is responsible for much of the advancement of the human race. Name me one race that hasn't waged war against another people in the past?

The white privilege buzz word is just the latest attempt to guilt whites for simply existing. As an Australian you should remember this on your national sorry day.

National Sorry Day? When we acknowledge things done by my ancestors to Natives Australians?

Should I not acknowledge the things that were done? Should they never be mentioned because it makes some Anglo-Celtic Australians uncomfortable? Sorry. No. That would be shameful, as denying the holocaust is shameful. But when people talk to Germans about World War 2 they don't get all touchy about us guilting them "for simply existing".

There is no reason to deny that Australian Colonisation involved the dispossession of a Native people from their land, sometimes murders and massacres, and later the removal of native children from their families leaving a legacy that still bears living witnesses.

The idea that there is some agenda to guilt whites for simply existing is preposterous. You should be ashamed of making such a weak argument.

If someone is trying to make you feel bad then you have the option of not feeling bad. It's not hard. Its not like they're killing or enslaving you.

Checking your white privilege just means the

You can feel bad about history, that's your personal decision. When you hear about the past atrocities committed in the past most people cannot help but feel sorry about it and to make sure that it never happens again but that's a personal decision. You or anybody else has no right to attribute the guilt of the past onto someone like me who has had no part in the whole affair. Its up to the history lessons to teach people so they can make up their own minds about history, not guilt the current generation for the mistakes of the very distant past.

I feel sorry for you that you feel the need to accept the personal responsibility for the sins of your ancestors (plus the need to push this onto all white people). Isn't it enough that you simply agree that it was wasn't right instead of falling into the trap of self deprecating behavior? Isn't that national sorry day, where YOU personally say sorry for something you had nothing about? Isn't history classes enough for you? Why must you flagellate yourself so?

I'm telling you that you have no reason to feel sorry because of your white guilt, privilege or past? Won't you agree with me and embrace this and in doing so, removed this self imposed burden off your and your families back?

NAdducci:
Man I am getting tirepd of this shit... America is not evil and racist! Not any more than any other country at least, probably less so actually. This ridiculous idea, that enshrines bullying of any white american regardless of actual character, IS f@#$ing racism.

I don't even play these first person shooters normally and it's a simple game that is obviously catering to military and secret agent drama which fits the style well, those of whom who enjoy that probably like the American military for their own reasons and are incidentally mostly white because that's what the population is. If you don't like that, well I guess people are different and you aren't the King. Reality bites sometimes.

People are free to like what they want. If you want others to respect your preference maybe you should respect them in the first place instead of drawing a line in the sand. At least Movie Bob attempts to look at things a tad more objectively, but his preaching is getting on my damn nerves too.

Maybe if Yahtzee spent less of his time being jealous of America's inherited wealth, masturbating to Theif 2 and Valve, and deriving an unhealthy amount of pleasure from acting like a troll so he can feel good about himself while wannabe trolls cheer him on, he might actually get a taste of why multiplayer games are fun, and develop the art of learning to coexist with people who are different. And if anyone is gonna call me a hypocrite for this part, I'm deliberately including it to show 2 can play this game, but it's better to let people enjoy what they like in peace.

I like Yahtzee, he's a witty, cynical, and skilled writer with a working knowledge of game design and penchant for third person solo player and indie games. And I like Movie Bob too. My kind of people most of the time. But I'm getting tired of both of their reviews being harsh judgement of the people who enjoy the games rather than the game/subject itself.

Jealous of America's inherited wealth? He lives in Brisbane Australia owns two cocktail bars and has sweet creative outlet that he gets paid for. Why you think he wwould be jealous of you Americans and you thirty economy is beyond me.

It's really disturbing how defensive some Americans get when people state that they find tales of ironic jingoistic tales American exceptionalism where you kill lots of brown people without introspection distasteful.

Yes people have shat on other people since time immemorial. But that doesn't mean that when you do it, or at least write thirty fiction about it, you should:get a free pass.

GunsmithKitten:

TAdamson:

What? Were you expecting an essay on the Iran-Contra affair in the middle of a cartoon video game review?

If he's going to sit on the mountain and yell down at all of us evil racist white people on the basis of picking on a poor innocent Nicaraguan "freedom fighter", you goddamn right I do!

Oh no wait. You just want to point out that Nicaraguan narco-terrorists are bad guys despite the fact the game glosses over the fact that the US has a less than stellar record on that subject.

Forfuckssake. It features Colonel Oliver North in a cutscene and is partially set in Nicaragua in 1986 but nope... The fact that that year North was giving money to the Contras (Anti-Communist Nicaraguan Drug Terrorists) gets no playtime....

AND THEN, Activision has the balls to use North in their advertising. Awesome.

The game even has the Contras "rape and murder" Menendez's people.... And then the CIA assassinates his father and later some of the game's protagonists fuck up and kill his sister. But no, he's totally the bad guy not the product of botched American interventions.

They're BOTH pieces of shit. North was a oppurtunist and svengali of the worst kind, and the Contras were nothing but a glorified street gang who, say it with me now, FUCKED OVER THEIR OWN PEOPLE.

But according to the gaming world's self appointed equivalent of Huey Newton, it's not THEIR fault that they treated their countrymen in ways that would make even the Mendele' cartel enforces wince. They're innocent!

And this game is a piece of fiction that taken on its own makes the main antagonist far more likable than any of the barely distinguishable American characters.

The protagonists are generic boring dicks . Regardless this game has only the most tenuous relationship with reality and you get this upset when somebody suggests that the American characters in this story are probably worse people than an imaginary Nicaraguan who happened to have all the people he cared about killed by Americans or American proxies.

Why is it so upsetting for you to have someone criticise the way that the gaming industry portrays American conflicts that you feel the need to build a giant strawman of his beliefs to burn down with your manufactured outrage.

TAdamson:

Why is it so upsetting for you to have someone criticise the way that the gaming industry portrays American conflicts that you feel the need to build a giant strawman of his beliefs to burn down with your manufactured outrage.

I don't even care or am angry about his criticism of the game. I have no love or loyalty to miltiary FPS bro-games. That's his gig. That's his place. That's his dominion I'll even say.

Thing is, he went past it. He had to throw his weight around about the grand old beating stick of "white privledge", that wonderful way you can be bigoted towards an entire race without being called a bigot by most. He decided to go into not just geo political but now race relations as well and spout the "Oh, your ancestors were absolute a-holes and the people in charge have your skin color so you know what, you're all pieces of shit" line that...you know, I'm embaressed to even compare Huey Newton to his logic now that I think about it. He wanted to step out of his box into a very hostile arena, and if you do that, prepare to be welcomed with a gladius right to your gut, baby.

This is, perhaps.. the first time Yahtzee got into politics which is why this thread is about 11 pages long. Quite crazy especially reading all of these posts. I won't judge anyone however, for I have my set of opinions thus think Yahtzee had a right to state how he felt. There are things I agree with him on and disagree with but i'll be getting to that.

OT: The review was funny as always. I liked how you were honest thus didn't try giving this game an amazing score like every other game reviewer because they were somehow 'paid' to rate it high or something. Still though, in my opinion this was their best game yet. Black Ops II is the funnest CoD I have played since CoD 4. However, it is getting quite tiresome of the games being so similar that it just feels like I am playing the same thing except with new maps and graphics being improved ... and fun crafting emblems.

As for the white topic- I think racism is dying. Don't get me wrong, it still lingers and people have issues with certain races but in our modern times I must say society has overcame the struggles of racism and I hardly come by it even when looking into the news. Sadly other countries may still be having struggles especially with religious beliefs but in the USA .. I am happy to see that no one's getting mistreated. Then again everyone's suffering with their wallets since the economy sucks so badly....

tifa77:

TAdamson:

tifa77:
TAdamson its a wider issue. We all know the western world experiences a higher quality of life then most other areas but there's no need to attribute that to 'whiteness'. Checking your white privilege lumps all whites into a super rich elite group that all laugh down at the poor minorities attempts to break even with the institutionalized racism that they face everyday. In reality there is an underclass and the rich. Most people live in the underclass including most whites and most of the minorities.

This goes hand in hand with the guilt complex that many white people in the public eye have adopted because its the populist mindset at the moment. The fact that white history is solely made up of us oppressing everyone and being the demons of the world when white history is responsible for much of the advancement of the human race. Name me one race that hasn't waged war against another people in the past?

The white privilege buzz word is just the latest attempt to guilt whites for simply existing. As an Australian you should remember this on your national sorry day.

National Sorry Day? When we acknowledge things done by my ancestors to Natives Australians?

Should I not acknowledge the things that were done? Should they never be mentioned because it makes some Anglo-Celtic Australians uncomfortable? Sorry. No. That would be shameful, as denying the holocaust is shameful. But when people talk to Germans about World War 2 they don't get all touchy about us guilting them "for simply existing".

There is no reason to deny that Australian Colonisation involved the dispossession of a Native people from their land, sometimes murders and massacres, and later the removal of native children from their families leaving a legacy that still bears living witnesses.

The idea that there is some agenda to guilt whites for simply existing is preposterous. You should be ashamed of making such a weak argument.

If someone is trying to make you feel bad then you have the option of not feeling bad. It's not hard. Its not like they're killing or enslaving you.

Checking your white privilege just means the

You can feel bad about history, that's your personal decision. When you hear about the past atrocities committed in the past most people cannot help but feel sorry about it and to make sure that it never happens again but that's a personal decision. You or anybody else has no right to attribute the guilt of the past onto someone like me who has had no part in the whole affair. Its up to the history lessons to teach people so they can make up their own minds about history, not guilt the current generation for the mistakes of the very distant past.

I feel sorry for you that you feel the need to accept the personal responsibility for the sins of your ancestors (plus the need to push this onto all white people). Isn't it enough that you simply agree that it was wasn't right instead of falling into the trap of self deprecating behavior? Isn't that national sorry day, where YOU personally say sorry for something you had nothing about? Isn't history classes enough for you? Why must you flagellate yourself so?

I'm telling you that you have no reason to feel sorry because of your white guilt, privilege or past? Won't you agree with me and embrace this and in doing so, removed this self imposed burden off your and your families back?

Are you dense? I said i DON'T FEEL GUILTY. But thanks for telling me I don't have to.

Seriously. Admitting the sins of the past is not admitting guilt. It's certainly not about feeling bad.

Are we clear? Do i have to repeat myself again?

If YOU crack the shits just because people mention the past then THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM. Your position seems to be that we aren't allowed to bring it up because "Whaa ! Guilt trip" then sorry. No. That is ridiculous ignorant and indefensible.

I'm going to keep talking about it. And I don't feel the slightest bit of guilt. Your touchiness on this suggests that you do, or that you possibly have some underlying problems with race that you need to reconcile .

GunsmithKitten:

TAdamson:

Why is it so upsetting for you to have someone criticise the way that the gaming industry portrays American conflicts that you feel the need to build a giant strawman of his beliefs to burn down with your manufactured outrage.

I don't even care or am angry about his criticism of the game. I have no love or loyalty to miltiary FPS bro-games. That's his gig. That's his place. That's his dominion I'll even say.

Thing is, he went past it. He had to throw his weight around about the grand old beating stick of "white privledge", that wonderful way you can be bigoted towards an entire race without being called a bigot by most. He decided to go into not just geo political but now race relations as well and spout the "Oh, your ancestors were absolute a-holes and the people in charge have your skin color so you know what, you're all pieces of shit" line that...you know, I'm embaressed to even compare Huey Newton to his logic now that I think about it. He wanted to step out of his box into a very hostile arena, and if you do that, prepare to be welcomed with a gladius right to your gut, baby.

I pretty sure he didn't say anything remotely close to that. He did say that white conservative America gets very shirty when criticized. A fact that your demonstrating aptly with you r manufactured rage.

Suck it up.

TAdamson:

GunsmithKitten:

TAdamson:

Why is it so upsetting for you to have someone criticise the way that the gaming industry portrays American conflicts that you feel the need to build a giant strawman of his beliefs to burn down with your manufactured outrage.

I don't even care or am angry about his criticism of the game. I have no love or loyalty to miltiary FPS bro-games. That's his gig. That's his place. That's his dominion I'll even say.

Thing is, he went past it. He had to throw his weight around about the grand old beating stick of "white privledge", that wonderful way you can be bigoted towards an entire race without being called a bigot by most. He decided to go into not just geo political but now race relations as well and spout the "Oh, your ancestors were absolute a-holes and the people in charge have your skin color so you know what, you're all pieces of shit" line that...you know, I'm embaressed to even compare Huey Newton to his logic now that I think about it. He wanted to step out of his box into a very hostile arena, and if you do that, prepare to be welcomed with a gladius right to your gut, baby.

I pretty sure he didn't say anything remotely close to that. He did say that white conservative America gets very shirty when criticized. A fact that your demonstrating aptly with you r manufactured rage.

Suck it up.

Watch the review again.

And white CONSERVATIVE America? You think I'm part of that circus? News flash; me being a feminist AND a lesbian keeps me well and truly banned from that country club regardless of my skin color. Heck, after Romney showed his ass, me not being from the top 43% of income earners does too. Just go to talk to Xanthious in R&P to see how welcome us peasants are now to white conservative America. The only thing in Croshow's rant that I agreed with was that we have a hard-on for kicking the poor in our country. Too bad that he seems to forget that having white skin doesn't guarantee you get to part of that beautiful ruling class.

Treblaine:

UAVs can now detect stationary ghost users?

Yeah that was a good change. Why they put Ghost at level 55 I don't know though. I unlocked it with my prestige token because I always run and gun. Though in retrospect I kinda wish I'd unlocked the burst SMG instead.

As I say the perks and customization is much improved. I just don't care for a lot of the maps and wish the guns were a bit more interesting. I still like the game though obviously because I just prestiged yesterday. Maybe the map pack will give us some better offerings if I decide to pick it up.

Look you can't complain about UAV, that can't change too much for balance issues as the UAV has remained the same over 80 years from 1945 in World at War to to 2025. Radar is not going to change much.

If you want "far far way crazy speculative future" then play Halo. Not Black Ops 2. I think you are taking the "future" part too far. It's ONLY 12 years in our future. And considering even Modern Warfare 3 is set in 2016, it's only 9 years ahead of "Modern" Warfare 3. Different universes though.

Yeah I got Halo 4 too. Play the MP a bit sometimes as well.
Even in that game though I wish there was more new gear, and I wish the classes had more customization. Though I didn't get far enough to unlock perks and stuff yet though.

GunsmithKitten:
[quote="TAdamson" post="6.394759.16022134"][quote="GunsmithKitten" post="6.394759.16021975"][quote="TAdamson" post="6.394759.16021934"]
The only thing in Croshow's rant that I agreed with was that we have a hard-on for kicking the poor in our country. Too bad that he seems to forget that having white skin doesn't guarantee you get to part of that beautiful ruling class.

What having white skin DOES guarantee is that you're not a person of color. And, like it or not, that puts you in a better position in society vis-a-vis people of color due to a.)the legacy of racism and b.)extant racism. That's what white privilege is. It's a special little boost you get (compared to others) for being white. It means that landlords will be more likely to rent to you, banks are more likely to give you loans. You're more likely to get certain jobs. You get the benefit of the doubt. You're much less likely to be born into a poor family. People won't make certain assumptions about you. The list goes on.

Perhaps the community to which you belong tends to frequently discuss white privilege and thereby somehow more carefully examine its effects. Maybe that negates those effects and creates a more egalitarian social milieu for you. That's cool. But, unfortunately, most of the USA and the world continues to operate on the principle that eliminating most forms of de jure racial prejudice creates a de facto equal society.

GunsmithKitten:

TAdamson:

GunsmithKitten:

I don't even care or am angry about his criticism of the game. I have no love or loyalty to miltiary FPS bro-games. That's his gig. That's his place. That's his dominion I'll even say.

Thing is, he went past it. He had to throw his weight around about the grand old beating stick of "white privledge", that wonderful way you can be bigoted towards an entire race without being called a bigot by most. He decided to go into not just geo political but now race relations as well and spout the "Oh, your ancestors were absolute a-holes and the people in charge have your skin color so you know what, you're all pieces of shit" line that...you know, I'm embaressed to even compare Huey Newton to his logic now that I think about it. He wanted to step out of his box into a very hostile arena, and if you do that, prepare to be welcomed with a gladius right to your gut, baby.

I pretty sure he didn't say anything remotely close to that. He did say that white conservative America gets very shirty when criticized. A fact that your demonstrating aptly with you r manufactured rage.

Suck it up.

Watch the review again.

And white CONSERVATIVE America? You think I'm part of that circus? News flash; me being a feminist AND a lesbian keeps me well and truly banned from that country club regardless of my skin color. Heck, after Romney showed his ass, me not being from the top 43% of income earners does too. Just go to talk to Xanthious in R&P to see how welcome us peasants are now to white conservative America. The only thing in Croshow's rant that I agreed with was that we have a hard-on for kicking the poor in our country. Too bad that he seems to forget that having white skin doesn't guarantee you get to part of that beautiful ruling class.

Okay okay. Pink liberal America gets shirty too.

I kid.

But what proportion of the American ruling class aren't white, straight men?

Also why do these games have to have a story that reads like Glenn Beck wrote a bad Clancey knock off? Why avoid Iran contra especially since the game is set in the middle of those events?

Why do these stories all play like bad knockoffs of red dawn? It really does feel like some sort of pathology when all the stories are essentially Team America:World Police without the satire.

Cinema in the seventies demonstrated that America can produce mature nominations on the wars it fights. Why not the games?

II do find something distasteful about American triumphalism in fiction. In fiction youre supposed to root for the underdog. Rebel Alliance not the Empire. If these games were a little more circumspect about the swaths of less advanced people that you mow down then they would be more palatable.

Hah, hilarious review and sums up just about how I feel about the whole series.

"Real gamer" here and I haven't played a MW game since MW2. This series just needs to rot on the vine so a new IP can finally come out of the shitholes that are Treyarch & Infinty Ward...

DataSnake:

CrunkParty:
Yahtzee really needs to stop reviewing FPSs because it's really getting embarrassing for him.

I think you mean he needs to stop reviewing spunkgargleweewee games. And I disagree, I love the fact that someone is taking the time to point out exactly why inexplicably popular trends aren't necessarily worth following.

Whoosh

That was the sound of the irony of your statement going over your head.

TAdamson:

GunsmithKitten:

TAdamson:

I pretty sure he didn't say anything remotely close to that. He did say that white conservative America gets very shirty when criticized. A fact that your demonstrating aptly with you r manufactured rage.

Suck it up.

Watch the review again.

And white CONSERVATIVE America? You think I'm part of that circus? News flash; me being a feminist AND a lesbian keeps me well and truly banned from that country club regardless of my skin color. Heck, after Romney showed his ass, me not being from the top 43% of income earners does too. Just go to talk to Xanthious in R&P to see how welcome us peasants are now to white conservative America. The only thing in Croshow's rant that I agreed with was that we have a hard-on for kicking the poor in our country. Too bad that he seems to forget that having white skin doesn't guarantee you get to part of that beautiful ruling class.

Okay okay. Pink liberal America gets shirty too.

I kid.

But what proportion of the American ruling class aren't white, straight men?

Also why do these games have to have a story that reads like Glenn Beck wrote a bad Clancey knock off? Why avoid Iran contra especially since the game is set in the middle of those events

I never said there wasn't an "old boys network" Good GOD there's one. But there's this mistaken impression that having the same skin color as them means you get to play their reindeer games with them automatically. WRONG. O.

Despite what Crowshow thinks, white trash need not apply to the gilded halls of power and privledge. Only the RIGHT kind of whites from the RIGHT kind of breeding get into that club.

And yes, I mean white trash. No matter how lily white my skin is, I'm not part of the right money, the right breeding, the right 'stock'. Even Glen Beck and Xanthious in R&P is trash to them in the end because they're just Squealers to their Napoleons. I am doubly insulted by being regarded as parasitic garbage by them, and then by the "white guilt" crowd laying blame for their crimes on my head because I got born with the same lack of skin pigment.

It should. But I doubt Treyarch wanted to risk a shitstornm that would no doubt play out log by log on Fox News after paying Ollie "it's not treason if I do it!" North to provide some background flavor.

Caramel Frappe:

As for the white topic- I think racism is dying. Don't get me wrong, it still lingers and people have issues with certain races but in our modern times I must say society has overcame the struggles of racism and I hardly come by it even when looking into the news. Sadly other countries may still be having struggles especially with religious beliefs but in the USA .. I am happy to see that no one's getting mistreated. Then again everyone's suffering with their wallets since the economy sucks so badly....

Jesus fucking Christ. How in the world is it possible to be so completely blind to everything going on around you?

Caramel Frappe:
Sadly other countries may still be having struggles especially with religious beliefs but in the USA .. I am happy to see that no one's getting mistreated.

image

Sorry, but... what fantasy-land version of the US do you live in?
New England?
Racial mistreatment and institutional inequality is still rampant. The only reason its coverage isn't as visceral is because the conflict has become more subliminal - and because everyone wants to convince themselves the US is a post-racial country.

For example, as of 2006, roughly 5% of America's black male populace was incarcerated. A study by the Bureau of Justice in 1997 showed that the likelihood of black and latino men serving jail time in their life is 28% and 16% respectively, compared to 4% for white men.
On average, black men are given 10% longer prison sentences than white men for the same crime committed.
In 2011, 41.6% of those who were stopped and frisked by police in New York City were men of colour, in spite of the fact that they only make up about 4.7% of the NYC population. At the same time, a mere 11% of stops and frisks were based on an actual description of a suspect, and 9/10 people stopped were found completely innocent of any actual crime.

I would absolutely argue that race remains the single most pervasive issue in the US.

GunsmithKitten:
And white CONSERVATIVE America? You think I'm part of that circus? News flash; me being a feminist AND a lesbian keeps me well and truly banned from that country club regardless of my skin color.

I'm not going to speak for women of color, but I can point you in a direction of a place where you can hear exactly what they think about you.

The game does pretty much paint everyone that isn't white as hostile. The one Asian guy is pretty much an uneasy ally and everyone else betrays you pretty much.

And it was nice of them to introduce one female solider...at the last phase of the game, and you end up rescuing her.

GunsmithKitten:

TAdamson:

GunsmithKitten:

Watch the review again.

And white CONSERVATIVE America? You think I'm part of that circus? News flash; me being a feminist AND a lesbian keeps me well and truly banned from that country club regardless of my skin color. Heck, after Romney showed his ass, me not being from the top 43% of income earners does too. Just go to talk to Xanthious in R&P to see how welcome us peasants are now to white conservative America. The only thing in Croshow's rant that I agreed with was that we have a hard-on for kicking the poor in our country. Too bad that he seems to forget that having white skin doesn't guarantee you get to part of that beautiful ruling class.

Okay okay. Pink liberal America gets shirty too.

I kid.

But what proportion of the American ruling class aren't white, straight men?

Also why do these games have to have a story that reads like Glenn Beck wrote a bad Clancey knock off? Why avoid Iran contra especially since the game is set in the middle of those events

I never said there wasn't an "old boys network" Good GOD there's one. But there's this mistaken impression that having the same skin color as them means you get to play their reindeer games with them automatically. WRONG. O.

Despite what Crowshow thinks, white trash need not apply to the gilded halls of power and privledge. Only the RIGHT kind of whites from the RIGHT kind of breeding get into that club.

And yes, I mean white trash. No matter how lily white my skin is, I'm not part of the right money, the right breeding, the right 'stock'. Even Glen Beck and Xanthious in R&P is trash to them in the end because they're just Squealers to their Napoleons. I am doubly insulted by being regarded as parasitic garbage by them, and then by the "white guilt" crowd laying blame for their crimes on my head because I got born with the same lack of skin pigment.

It should. But I doubt Treyarch wanted to risk a shitstornm that would no doubt play out log by log on Fox News after paying Ollie "it's not treason if I do it!" North to provide some background flavor.

Well there is the fact that both Yahtzee and I hail from and live in socialized education as well as healthcare along with the fact that union affiliated Labour parties are powerful in both countries so the social economic barriers to succeeding in business, politics or what ever you choose are far lower.

I don't think that Yahtzee nor i mean to shit on your disadvantage but there is a very loud section of your media that such as the aforementioned Glenn Beck , Hannit y etc that plays on the idea that white Christian heterosexual America is under attack when really it's just minorities claiming civil rights. This is the sort of stuff thatfiltres back to Australia. It's this sort of thing that i believe Mr Crowshaw complains about.

LiquidGrape:
Snip

I admire all the examples you've brought up and I can't deny that. However, a lot of your examples came into terms of jail time and sentencing. If you look outside the crime ratio, a lot of people are being treated just as equal. We live in times where we're being more accepting then ever before, not just in the US so to speak.

Yea, racism shall always still exist sadly. But, it's being toned down and I am happy as mentioned, that where I live it's not an issue brought up often. The biggest issue to my country if not anywhere else, is the economy. No matter who you are, it's really rough getting a job and finding work. No one's able to manage all that well, it's not like the Great Depression but it's pretty much there unless we start getting opportunities.

Besides that, Yahtzee was just mentioning how he's tired of seeing different races (and cultures) in these games being marked as evil or non-trust worthy while the whites seem to be glorious or something. Truth be told I know there is somewhat still inequality along the lines of US (hence the immigrant problem and how US citizens don't like them getting privileges despite that they're not citizens as in having citizen licenses.) But to me, people in society have been very respectful towards one another. I hardly see any racism towards a person to another but perhaps I can look more into the justice system and see where you're coming from.

TAdamson:

I don't think that Yahtzee nor i mean to shit on your disadvantage but there is a very loud section of your media that such as the aforementioned Glenn Beck , Hannit y etc that plays on the idea that white Christian heterosexual America is under attack when really it's just minorities claiming civil rights. This is the sort of stuff thatfiltres back to Australia. It's this sort of thing that i believe Mr Crowshaw complains about.

Again, Hannity and the other Squealers (that's a pretty good parallels, I think I'll stay with it.) are the not the advocates for anyone with white skin; they're advocates for the Old Boys Network, and nothing more than that. The American OBN had it so good that anything even remotely threatening to...well, hell, not even their survival but their complete dominance of the media, political, military, and commercial spectrum sets off their alarm bells and they get downright stupid in their rush to defend it.

Just, again, tired of "Old Boys Network=all white America" because I promise you, unless you're the right kind of White American Male, you ain't welcome in their club.

tifa77:

TAdamson:

tifa77:
TAdamson its a wider issue. We all know the western world experiences a higher quality of life then most other areas but there's no need to attribute that to 'whiteness'. Checking your white privilege lumps all whites into a super rich elite group that all laugh down at the poor minorities attempts to break even with the institutionalized racism that they face everyday. In reality there is an underclass and the rich. Most people live in the underclass including most whites and most of the minorities.

This goes hand in hand with the guilt complex that many white people in the public eye have adopted because its the populist mindset at the moment. The fact that white history is solely made up of us oppressing everyone and being the demons of the world when white history is responsible for much of the advancement of the human race. Name me one race that hasn't waged war against another people in the past?

The white privilege buzz word is just the latest attempt to guilt whites for simply existing. As an Australian you should remember this on your national sorry day.

National Sorry Day? When we acknowledge things done by my ancestors to Natives Australians?

Should I not acknowledge the things that were done? Should they never be mentioned because it makes some Anglo-Celtic Australians uncomfortable? Sorry. No. That would be shameful, as denying the holocaust is shameful. But when people talk to Germans about World War 2 they don't get all touchy about us guilting them "for simply existing".

There is no reason to deny that Australian Colonisation involved the dispossession of a Native people from their land, sometimes murders and massacres, and later the removal of native children from their families leaving a legacy that still bears living witnesses.

The idea that there is some agenda to guilt whites for simply existing is preposterous. You should be ashamed of making such a weak argument.

If someone is trying to make you feel bad then you have the option of not feeling bad. It's not hard. Its not like they're killing or enslaving you.

Checking your white privilege just means the

You can feel bad about history, that's your personal decision. When you hear about the past atrocities committed in the past most people cannot help but feel sorry about it and to make sure that it never happens again but that's a personal decision. You or anybody else has no right to attribute the guilt of the past onto someone like me who has had no part in the whole affair. Its up to the history lessons to teach people so they can make up their own minds about history, not guilt the current generation for the mistakes of the very distant past.

I feel sorry for you that you feel the need to accept the personal responsibility for the sins of your ancestors (plus the need to push this onto all white people). Isn't it enough that you simply agree that it was wasn't right instead of falling into the trap of self deprecating behavior? Isn't that national sorry day, where YOU personally say sorry for something you had nothing about? Isn't history classes enough for you? Why must you flagellate yourself so?

I'm telling you that you have no reason to feel sorry because of your white guilt, privilege or past? Won't you agree with me and embrace this and in doing so, removed this self imposed burden off your and your families back?

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

GunsmithKitten:

TAdamson:

I don't think that Yahtzee nor i mean to shit on your disadvantage but there is a very loud section of your media that such as the aforementioned Glenn Beck , Hannit y etc that plays on the idea that white Christian heterosexual America is under attack when really it's just minorities claiming civil rights. This is the sort of stuff thatfiltres back to Australia. It's this sort of thing that i believe Mr Crowshaw complains about.

Again, Hannity and the other Squealers (that's a pretty good parallels, I think I'll stay with it.) are the not the advocates for anyone with white skin; they're advocates for the Old Boys Network, and nothing more than that. The American OBN had it so good that anything even remotely threatening to...well, hell, not even their survival but their complete dominance of the media, political, military, and commercial spectrum sets off their alarm bells and they get downright stupid in their rush to defend it.

Just, again, tired of "Old Boys Network=all white America" because I promise you, unless you're the right kind of White American Male, you ain't welcome in their club.

Well this OBN is what we foreiners see as white America. And it's largely that kind of WHAM (Makes a nice acronym if you add Heterosexual, wonder what George Michael would think?) that is being targeted.

Yes we are aware of "trailer trash" but I guess the realities of being poor in the US don't really sink in in other predominantly white Western countries for the reasons I've stated before. It's almost impossible to completely fuck up in any western democracy except the US. And in Australia we don't really have a political class. And no discrimination if you're white.

This is really simple: if you like Call of Duty style games, you're going to enjoy Black Ops 2. If you don't like Call of Duty style games (for whatever reason), you aren't going to like this one.

It's hardly rocket science.

LiquidGrape:

Sorry, but... what fantasy-land version of the US do you live in?
New England?
Racial mistreatment and institutional inequality is still rampant. The only reason its coverage isn't as visceral is because the conflict has become more subliminal - and because everyone wants to convince themselves the US is a post-racial country.

For example, as of 2006, roughly 5% of America's black male populace was incarcerated. A study by the Bureau of Justice in 1997 showed that the likelihood of black and latino men serving jail time in their life is 28% and 16% respectively, compared to 4% for white men.
On average, black men are given 10% longer prison sentences than white men for the same crime committed.
In 2011, 41.6% of those who were stopped and frisked by police in New York City were men of colour, in spite of the fact that they only make up about 4.7% of the NYC population. At the same time, a mere 11% of stops and frisks were based on an actual description of a suspect, and 9/10 people stopped were found completely innocent of any actual crime.

I would absolutely argue that race remains the single most pervasive issue in the US.

What version of the U.S. do you live in? Minorities make up about 65% of NYC's population according to 2010 census data. White people have been in the minority there since 1991! Honestly, since when has New York or the NYPD been a representative of the U.S. as a whole? Would it be fair of me to make judgements about the whole of Australia based on Michael Atkinson?

OT: I can remember a glorious time when Yahtzee wasn't stuck so far up his own ass, and this show was actually about fucking video games. Those were the days.

TAdamson:
{Snip}

What I'm getting at is that while the British are loathe to openly admit it, they're just as prone to glorifying their jingoistic romps as people from the United States are. I'm less than impressed that after Kill Zone(developed by Netherlands-based Guerrilla Games ), Assassin's Creed 3 (made by a Canadian-based branch of French company Ubisoft) and Call Of Duty's obsession with a certain John Price becoming an increasingly faded distant memory that now is the time for Brits to collectively snap and decide that anything that depicts the Americans in a positive light ruins just about everything.

GunsmithKitten:

But how the hell do we jump from that phenomenon to the usual "You're white, so you suck" bigotry?

I have no idea, because no one here has fucking said that.

I've only installed one part of this game, Zombies.

The zombies game play is fun and the only part of the series I've liked since world at war. At this point I'd like to just see a COD: Zombies game, that comes with like 10 maps, or map circuits like the new tranzit level.

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