Zero Punctuation: Call of Duty: Black Ops 2

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Meaning of Karma:

GunsmithKitten:

But how the hell do we jump from that phenomenon to the usual "You're white, so you suck" bigotry?

I have no idea, because no one here has fucking said that.

Except, of course, for Ben Croshow and his show.

ImmortalDrifter:

LiquidGrape:

Sorry, but... what fantasy-land version of the US do you live in?
New England?
Racial mistreatment and institutional inequality is still rampant. The only reason its coverage isn't as visceral is because the conflict has become more subliminal - and because everyone wants to convince themselves the US is a post-racial country.

For example, as of 2006, roughly 5% of America's black male populace was incarcerated. A study by the Bureau of Justice in 1997 showed that the likelihood of black and latino men serving jail time in their life is 28% and 16% respectively, compared to 4% for white men.
On average, black men are given 10% longer prison sentences than white men for the same crime committed.
In 2011, 41.6% of those who were stopped and frisked by police in New York City were men of colour, in spite of the fact that they only make up about 4.7% of the NYC population. At the same time, a mere 11% of stops and frisks were based on an actual description of a suspect, and 9/10 people stopped were found completely innocent of any actual crime.

I would absolutely argue that race remains the single most pervasive issue in the US.

What version of the U.S. do you live in? Minorities make up about 65% of NYC's population according to 2010 census data. White people have been in the minority there since 1991! Honestly, since when has New York or the NYPD been a representative of the U.S. as a whole? Would it be fair of me to make judgements about the whole of Australia based on Michael Atkinson?

OT: I can remember a glorious time when Yahtzee wasn't stuck so far up his own ass, and this show was actually about fucking video games. Those were the days.

Well, if his dream is to become a pundit, and it apparently is, you gotta admit there is some logic in using a platform where you've already got a huge number of people ready to take every word out of your piehole as wisdom from on-high. "He talks about video games in a funny and entertaining way, so he MUST know what he's talking about in terms of geo-political and race relations!"

This is why Dogbert getting himself appointed CEO because he has great hair was more prophetic than funny.

Wow this has touched a nerve with some people. Chill out, it's just a game review, it's not like commenting on it is going to have ANY serious impact on the world and I would be amazed if Yahtzee reads half these comments. Just reading the first page made me want to cover myself in gasoline and stick lit fireworks into every orifice.

As far as the game goes the CoD franchise has been stagnant for far too long, particularly the gameplay which has barely changed and Yahtzee's review reflected that (i.e. the lack of any noteworthy features meant he talked about other stuff such as the whole racism thing). Although admittedly I am suprised he didn't mention Zombies, thought that might be the one bit of the game he found tolerable.

GunsmithKitten:

Meaning of Karma:

GunsmithKitten:

But how the hell do we jump from that phenomenon to the usual "You're white, so you suck" bigotry?

I have no idea, because no one here has fucking said that.

Except, of course, for Ben Croshow and his show.

How does "White people are the most priveledged people in the world" translate to "ALL WHITE PEOPLE SUCK!"?

Stop being a drama queen. Neither Yahtzee nor anyone else in this fucking thread has said that. You're just twisting their words into something they're not so you can have an opportunity to bitch about something.

Paradoxrifts:

TAdamson:
{Snip}

What I'm getting at is that while the British are loathe to openly admit it, they're just as prone to glorifying their jingoistic romps as people from the United States are. I'm less than impressed that after Kill Zone(developed by Netherlands-based Guerrilla Games ), Assassin's Creed 3 (made by a Canadian-based branch of French company Ubisoft) and Call Of Duty's obsession with a certain John Price becoming an increasingly faded distant memory that now is the time for Brits to collectively snap and decide that anything that depicts the Americans in a positive light ruins just about everything.

I'm not sure that that is true. The last Major UK lead engagement was the Falklands, a war I barely remember as I was about 6.

Otherwise since WW2 Britain hasn't really been involved in unilateral engagement. There's been a bit of following American Expeditions but warfare is seen as a necessary chore rather than something to take pride in.

If you're saying that there is glorification of the "Days of Empire" or wars even further back then I'm not sure that people exalt in it so much as get excited by history.

Again I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at with the later parts of that paragraph... So there's shooters made by European/Canadian companies and there's no SAS man in COD so British people are upset? Wha???

GunsmithKitten:
a

maninahat:
Man there's a lot of bullshit in this thread. It's a sad fact that a person can't make glib references to politics or race without it turning into a massive debate. Yahtzee is snarking about video game jingoism, not writing a essay. Treat his remarks for what they are, and think before you launch into a 1000 word counter-argument on the subject of white guilt. There is no point in arguing with a slogan.

Not when said slogan maker is revered as a demi-god and the last final word on a hobby by so many people.

No, he's not snarking on video game jingoism, he dived right into the pit of political discourse, and if he's gonna act like a gladiator in that arena, he's gonna tangle with the lions just like the rest of us.

Well that is something we just have to disagree on. As far as I'm concerned, casual remarks about the obnoxious political sentiments in a video game do not count as a political discourse. Either you find the American-centric messages of COD/MOH games annoying, or you don't - that's all there is to it. There is no need to start "tangling with the lions", or trying to debate the finer points of American foreign politics, when the issue is really about taste and story telling.

ImmortalDrifter:

What version of the U.S. do you live in? Minorities make up about 65% of NYC's population according to 2010 census data. White people have been in the minority there since 1991!

That's not what minority means. Really. There are more non-white people than white people but the only ethnic group that can really call themselves a minority in NYC are Asians with double points for Pacific Islanders.

Demographically there are more whites than any other section of the population in every Borough of NYC apart from the Bronx.

ImmortalDrifter:

OT: I can remember a glorious time when Yahtzee wasn't stuck so far up his own ass, and this show was actually about fucking video games. Those were the days.

If you don't like it when we point out how and why American Jingoism in videogame format is somewhat repulsive America then you know you can change don't you?

Don't make horrible videogames that glorify your wars past present or imaginary,.. unless you're willing to do it with a modicum of circumspection or satirical intent.

It's not a diatribe against white people. It's a diatribe against this sort of mentality. Most powerful nation on the planet, can't take a spoonful of criticism without crying to teacher.

GunsmithKitten:

Meaning of Karma:

GunsmithKitten:

But how the hell do we jump from that phenomenon to the usual "You're white, so you suck" bigotry?

I have no idea, because no one here has fucking said that.

Except, of course, for Ben Croshow and his show.

Sigh.

What he actually said:

"People fortunate enough to have been born white in the first world are the most privileged motherfuckers on this unequal fucking planet and Modern Warfare games are basically those people complaining about how tough it can be when every body is jealous of you. It's like when white dudes complain of racism because all the people they used to enslave are making fun of them."

I'm not sure that this in anyway implies "You're white, so you suck".

It definitely implies that some white people suck. Especially rich ones who complain of jealousy and reverse racism while living as a 75% majority in a country mostly run and policed by people who look like them.

Rikortez:
Remember guys, check your white privilege at least twice a day. And if any minority insults or is racist towards you, its your own fault for being a privileged white male cis.

Seriously, i was very disappointed Yahtzee, never expect this kind of thing coming from you.

You're an American. Come to Australia and try the white privilege here. It rocks.

TAdamson:

GunsmithKitten:

Meaning of Karma:

I have no idea, because no one here has fucking said that.

Except, of course, for Ben Croshow and his show.

Sigh.

What he actually said:

"People fortunate enough to have been born white in the first world are the most privileged motherfuckers on this unequal fucking planet and Modern Warfare games are basically those people complaining about how tough it can be when every body is jealous of you. It's like when white dudes complain of racism because all the people they used to enslave are making fun of them."

I'm not sure that this in anyway implies "You're white, so you suck".

It definitely implies that some white people suck. Especially rich ones who complain of jealousy and reverse racism while living as a 75% majority in a country mostly run and policed by people who look like them.

*GROAN* But what Ben, and apparently a lot of people here don't get, is that just because you might look like them, it doesn't mean you ARE them, or are even accepted by them. Just because you're white doesn't mean jack squat to the OBN, and people liek Croshow imply that just being white is enough to be in power when my lily white skin can't even get me elected dog catcher, let alone pulling the purse and cultural strings of an entire civilization. I'm simply tired of being made by him and the rest to feel ashamed just because the OBN happens to share the same skin color as I do.

TAdamson:
Most powerful nation on the planet, can't take a spoonful of criticism without crying to teacher.

Because when they hurl that poop, they hurl it even at the people in the nation who aren't in power. Again, I'm nothing but poor white trash to the people in charge, yet somehow I'm made to feel guilty because the only thing I have in common with the people in power is that I'm white.

maninahat:

GunsmithKitten:
a

maninahat:
Man there's a lot of bullshit in this thread. It's a sad fact that a person can't make glib references to politics or race without it turning into a massive debate. Yahtzee is snarking about video game jingoism, not writing a essay. Treat his remarks for what they are, and think before you launch into a 1000 word counter-argument on the subject of white guilt. There is no point in arguing with a slogan.

Not when said slogan maker is revered as a demi-god and the last final word on a hobby by so many people.

No, he's not snarking on video game jingoism, he dived right into the pit of political discourse, and if he's gonna act like a gladiator in that arena, he's gonna tangle with the lions just like the rest of us.

Well that is something we just have to disagree on. As far as I'm concerned, casual remarks about the obnoxious political sentiments in a video game do not count as a political discourse. Either you find the American-centric messages of COD/MOH games annoying, or you don't - that's all there is to it. There is no need to start "tangling with the lions", or trying to debate the finer points of American foreign politics, when the issue is really about taste and story telling.

I DO find it tired and eye rolling, and that's not even the worst sin that the military FPS craze has brought to bear. I'm just sick and tired of the "White=in bed with the powers that be and pulling strings of power" garbage, and also tired of the "well, people who were your skin color oppressed people, so shut up and be quiet when non-whites are bigoted towards you."

This white privledge bullcrap is passive-aggressive racism and just a politer way of saying " other people with your skin color were dicks, so you are too." Who needs individuality these days, eh?

GunsmithKitten:

*GROAN* But what Ben, and apparently a lot of people here don't get, is that just because you might look like them, it doesn't mean you ARE them, or are even accepted by them. Just because you're white doesn't mean jack squat to the OBN, and people liek Croshow imply that just being white is enough to be in power when my lily white skin can't even get me elected dog catcher, let alone pulling the purse and cultural strings of an entire civilization. I'm simply tired of being made by him and the rest to feel ashamed just because the OBN happens to share the same skin color as I do.

Who's saying he trying to make you feel ashamed? Did you write Black Ops 2? Do you complain about reverse racism, class jealousy, anti-Christian persecution?

If the answer's yes, then yes you should feel ashamed.

I am white, male, wealthy. Privileged. I don't feel ashamed nor does Crowshaw's rant bother me because I don't walk around telling people they shouldn't be jealous of what I have.

TAdamson:
Do you complain about reverse racism

Racism is racism. Bigotry is bigotry. There is no "reverse" of it.

class jealousy

One of our presidential candidates and a good deal of the political spectrum call people like me "parasites" and "of no net worth" soley because of my income level. Me being white didn't get them to say "Oh, sorry, we didn't mean you white folks!"

anti-Christian persecution?

I actually make sport of proving how un-oppressed Christianity is in this country.

GunsmithKitten:

TAdamson:
Do you complain about reverse racism

Racism is racism. Bigotry is bigotry. There is no "reverse" of it.

That's kind of the point. But being mocked for how you drive or dance or being called "honky" doesn't qualify.

class jealousy

One of our presidential candidates and a good deal of the political spectrum call people like me "parasites" and "of no net worth" soley because of my income level. Me being white didn't get them to say "Oh, sorry, we didn't mean you white folks!"

So you shouldn't feel ashamed. It's them who should feel ashamed. I don't see how these statements applied to you any more than BC or I would apply them to ourselves.

anti-Christian persecution?

I actually make sport of proving how un-oppressed Christianity is in this country.

As was Ben Crowshaw. The Daily Show does it too.

TAdamson:
. But being mocked for how you drive or dance or being called "honky" doesn't qualify.

As racism? Debatable dependent on whether we're talking institutional or de'jour racism.

As bigotry? Yes. It's bigotry, plain and simple, to mock people on a racial basis. I say without apology that "honky" offends me no less than if I heard some idiot casually throw around the word n!gger.

GunsmithKitten:

TAdamson:
. But being mocked for how you drive or dance or being called "honky" doesn't qualify.

As racism? Debatable dependent on whether we're talking institutional or de'jour racism.

As bigotry? Yes. It's bigotry, plain and simple, to mock people on a racial basis. I say without apology that "honky" offends me no less than if I heard some idiot casually throw around the word n!gger.

Let's stick to institutional racism. People are always going to be arseholes. A dickhead will alway's be a dickhead.

So no. Honky does not qualify. It's just a word. That goes for nigger as well -- Y'all need to get over that word. If you are black and someone calls you a nigger (Same goes for gay men and the word faggot by the way) your response should be: "Yeah... SO?"

All these words do when they are used as weapons is give an excellent indication that person using them is an arsehole.

But honky, that'd just make me giggle.

TAdamson:
That's not what minority means. Really. There are more non-white people than white people but the only ethnic group that can really call themselves a minority in NYC are Asians with double points for Pacific Islanders.

Demographically there are more whites than any other section of the population in every Borough of NYC apart from the Bronx.

Note that what I said was a response to the claim that "Men of Color" made up only 6.4% of the population of NYC. This wasn't about White People being the smallest number, but White People making up less of the population than people of other Races when they are counted as one group. ("Men of Color")

TAdamson:

If you don't like it when we point out how and why American Jingoism in videogame format is somewhat repulsive America then you know you can change don't you?

Don't make horrible videogames that glorify your wars past present or imaginary,.. unless you're willing to do it with a modicum of circumspection or satirical intent.

It's not a diatribe against white people. It's a diatribe against this sort of mentality. Most powerful nation on the planet, can't take a spoonful of criticism without crying to teacher.

I have 4 points to make and I'm just going to list them to save time.

1. I bolded "We" because it literally caused me to laugh out loud. Are you and Yahtzee in some kind of little club? Do you somehow think that he knows or cares about your opinion?

2. Stop talking to me as if I'm directing these games. Do you think I can just walk into Activision's corporate office and dictate their actions? No, I can't. No elected official made Call of Duty, so stop blaming America.

3.I never said this was a diatribe against White People now did I? I was expressing sorrow that ZP seems to be less about the actual video games and more of a soapbox for Yahtzee to bitch about shit of borderline relevance.

4. -facepalm- If we're the most powerful nation on the planet then that would make us the teacher in that analogy. I can take criticism, but I would prefer if the criticism stayed in political circles rather than in a show for Video Game reviews. He took certain elements out of context, blew them out of proportion (which he admitted), and then took the moral high ground. You know who does that exact chain of events daily? Fox News.

PS: Why the hell did you quote my message twice?

TAdamson:
Seriously though just accept that you're privileged. Just be humble enough to do that and don't get touchy when people point it out. It's not about guilt. It's about being self-aware.

Everybody lucky enough to be born in a first world country is privileged and in general ethnically European people are luckier than most.

Because no matter what my past is, no matter how difficult my up-bringing was and no matter what my economic status is, my life must have been so easy by virtue of the colour of my skin.

It's not like one's quality of life varies from person to person.

Also to shift this back to Yahtzee.

Yahtzee the racist arsehole:
It's like when white dudes complain about being victims of racism because of all the people they used to enslave.

Just so this is abundantly clear.

Any racism directed at me is fair call simply because I share the same skin tone as a group of people whom I have no direct affiliation with. Apparently I'm responsible for the sins of someone long dead merely because of the colour of my skin.

This. Is. Fucking. Racist.

Also are we forgetting whom these "evil whities" bought the slaves off? Should we take a trip to Africa and demand that the impoverished natives take responsibility for the sins of their ancestors by virtue of the fact that they have dark skin?

ImmortalDrifter:

If you don't like it when we point out how and why American Jingoism in videogame format is somewhat repulsive America then you know you can change don't you?

Don't make horrible videogames that glorify your wars past present or imaginary,.. unless you're willing to do it with a modicum of circumspection or satirical intent.

It's not a diatribe against white people. It's a diatribe against this sort of mentality. Most powerful nation on the planet, can't take a spoonful of criticism without crying to teacher.

I have 4 points to make and I'm just going to list them to save time.

1. I bolded "We" because it literally caused me to laugh out loud. Are you and Yahtzee in some kind of little club? Do you somehow think that he knows or cares about your opinion?

2. Stop talking to me as if I'm directing these games. Do you think I can just walk into Activision's corporate office and dictate their actions? No, I can't. No elected official made Call of Duty, so stop blaming America.

3.I never said this was a diatribe against White People now did I? I was expressing sorrow that ZP seems to be less about the actual video games and more of a soapbox for Yahtzee to bitch about shit of borderline relevance.

4. -facepalm- If we're the most powerful nation on the planet then that would make us the teacher in that analogy. I can take criticism, but I would prefer if the criticism stayed in political circles rather than in a show for Video Game reviews. He took certain elements out of context, blew them out of proportion (which he admitted), and then took the moral high ground. You know who does that exact chain of events daily? Fox News.

PS: Why the hell did you quote my message twice?[/quote]

1.) Who gives a fuck what pronoun I/we use. Glad it brightened your day though.

2.) If you're not directing these games then why are you taking offence?

3.) Cool bro. I don't know if you noticed but it was at least somewhat relevant to the videogames story.

4.) Cool Bro. See above comment.

Wombok:

Any racism directed at me is fair call simply because I share the same skin tone as a group of people whom I have no direct affiliation with. Apparently I'm responsible for the sins of someone long dead merely because of the colour of my skin.

This. Is. Fucking. Racist.

If you're not the one:

A) Complaining about reverse racism.
B) Demanding that people from poorer nations have no right to be jealous of you.
or
C) Who wrote Black Ops 2

Then you have no reason to think that Yahtzee's rant was in any way directed at you.

Also are we forgetting whom these "evil whities" bought the slaves off? Should we take a trip to Africa and demand that the impoverished natives take responsibility for the sins of their ancestors by virtue of the fact that they have dark skin?

That's an excellent strawman that you've built for yourself there. I don't think anybody has suggest that people can disavow any African involvement in the slave trade.

I'm pretty sure that we weren't even remotely talking about the slave trade. We were talking about the difference between wealthy western countries where whites are majority and poorer countries that might justifiably feel unfairly dealt with by these countries.

Perhaps Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Peru, Nicaragua. The little playgrounds that the US used as proxies in its war against communism.

But no we can make this about slavery if you like. Would the slave trade existed in such a scale if English and Spanish settlers didn't create a market for it? No? Well then.

I'll say this about COdBlops2.

Multiplayer is pretty much the only reason I buy the COD games. They don't change much from year to year, but they still do it better than anyone else. 15 Multiplayer maps at launch, and more game modes than any other FPS. I picked up Halo4 also, but CODBlops has about twice the content for multiplayer. That being said, the game is 95% the same as any other Cod, with new maps. Still, I felt like this is the most refined and balanced version yet, and the changes while small were positive ones.

For example, Killstreaks are now ScoreStreaks, so doing things like Capping/Defending Objectives, Assists, and pretty much doing anything of value helps ready your Streak rewards instead of some douche camping in the corner on an objective game to get his 25 streak to drop a Nuke. Also, I really like that the Air Warfare has been toned down a bit compared to previous CoD Games. MW2 I hated cause you would hop into matches where it was just nonstop Airstrikes, Choppers, and Predator Missiles. You couldn't take two steps sometimes without being blown up by random shit.

I didn't ever pick up MW3, so a few things are new to me in Blops2 that may not be totally new to everyone. They added the Hardpoint mode which is basically team King of the Hill, and it works well. I am a big fan of the Kill Confirmed game mode, which requires players to run out and pick up the dropped dog tags from your kills in order for them to count. This mode really makes people to work together more than standard TeamDeathmatch, since people are moving around more to pick up tags, and trying to reach a tag can lead to being ambushed. It is really a great adaptation of your Standard Team Deathmatch.

The New Create A Class setup is actually pretty damn amazing. Now, you basically have a max of 10 total weapons/attachments/equipment/perks/etc. that you can have equipped at any one time. But the big change is the new Wildcards, which open up new possibilities. Wildcards use an equipment slot, but allow you to do things like using 2 Perk 1's, or extra equipment, or extra attachments on your weapon. They really add a lot more options. You can go without a secondary weapon or grenades in order to make room for more perks or attachments.

As far as the Campaign and Zombies go, I have never really enjoyed either of those, so reviewing them would be pointless. But the Multiplayer is more of what you expect from CoD, lost of content, same old gameplay, with some solid general improvements.

TAdamson:

1.) Who gives a fuck what pronoun I/we use. Glad it brightened your day though.

2.) If you're not directing these games then why are you taking offence?

3.) Cool bro. I don't know if you noticed but it was at least somewhat relevant to the videogames story.

4.) Cool Bro. See above comment.

1. Nice pathetic cop-out, bro.

2. Because you directed the statement at me. You didn't frame it around those who made that the game, you framed it as a statement to me. What are you 12?

3. Note use of the word "Borderline". See point 1 for what I think of the fact that you didn't even acknowledge the fact that your original accusation was baseless.

4. Nice hilariously pathetic cop-out bro.

GunsmithKitten:

maninahat:

GunsmithKitten:
a

Not when said slogan maker is revered as a demi-god and the last final word on a hobby by so many people.

No, he's not snarking on video game jingoism, he dived right into the pit of political discourse, and if he's gonna act like a gladiator in that arena, he's gonna tangle with the lions just like the rest of us.

Well that is something we just have to disagree on. As far as I'm concerned, casual remarks about the obnoxious political sentiments in a video game do not count as a political discourse. Either you find the American-centric messages of COD/MOH games annoying, or you don't - that's all there is to it. There is no need to start "tangling with the lions", or trying to debate the finer points of American foreign politics, when the issue is really about taste and story telling.

I DO find it tired and eye rolling, and that's not even the worst sin that the military FPS craze has brought to bear. I'm just sick and tired of the "White=in bed with the powers that be and pulling strings of power" garbage, and also tired of the "well, people who were your skin color oppressed people, so shut up and be quiet when non-whites are bigoted towards you."

This white privledge bullcrap is passive-aggressive racism and just a politer way of saying " other people with your skin color were dicks, so you are too." Who needs individuality these days, eh?

The argument boils down to whether you see white people as having advantages, purely by virtue of having been born into their specific place in society. It always seemed like common knowledge to me that being born black or Hispanic in the US puts you at a statistical disadvantage (more likely to have poorer education, prospects, security etc). That is entirely down to the historical treatment of race, and even if we aren't racist nowadays, we still get to enjoy the benefits of our place in society, as shaped out by those past racists.

Look, no one is saying that modern white people are racist, or even blaming them for being where they are in society. They are just saying they should take it into perspective. Especially before making yet another video game that portrays the most richest, powerful military industrial complex in the world as the victim.

ImmortalDrifter:

2. Because you directed the statement at me. You didn't frame it around those who made that the game, you framed it as a statement to me. What are you 12?

No, I didn't. I directed it at your misdirected outrage. Which I see is still ascendant.

If you didn't write the game and you aren't a white person that cries race war every time somebody criticises you or insists that nations have no right to feel aggrieved due to their dealings or interactions with the US then you have no reason to be offended.

If you are offended by the politicisation of videogames then it must be pointed out that this is a videogame about politics. One that completely abrogates any duty to discuss the real and very corrupt actions that were undertaken by the US in Nicaragua.

Meaning of Karma:

But how the hell do we jump from that phenomenon to the usual "You're white, so you suck" bigotry?

"It's like when white dudes complain about being victims of racism cuz' all the people they use to enslave are making fun of them."

What is one supposed to take away from this quote?

TAdamson:

No, I didn't. I directed it at your misdirected outrage. Which I see is still ascendant.

If you didn't write the game and you aren't a white person that cries race war every time somebody criticises you or insists that nations have no right to feel aggrieved due to their dealings or interactions with the US then you have no reason to be offended.

If you are offended by the politicisation of videogames then it must be pointed out that this is a videogame about politics. One that completely abrogates any duty to discuss the real and very corrupt actions that were undertaken by the US in Nicaragua.

I'm outraged? I hadn't noticed. Furthermore, if you direct a comment at my reaction you're directing it at me; That's how conversations work. If you'll kindly look back to my first post, it was a factual rebuttal of someone else's comment along with a crestfallen admission that ZP may no longer hold appeal to me. Any rage you may perceive is entirely your own delusion. Also, before I respond to your post allow me to say how hilarious it is to see you once again choose to ignore everything you were wrong about.

I didn't write the game, but I am an American who had nothing to do with it's development who you are blaming for it. Allow me to quote you briefly: "Don't make horrible videogames that glorify your wars past present or imaginary,.. unless you're willing to do it with a modicum of circumspection or satirical intent." This statement was direct solely at me as if I was responsible for Blops' creation. You said this as if I made it, and if I stopped making them then I would enjoy ZP more. And if it wasn't directed at me, then why did you bother saying it?

Before I respond to the last paragraph of your post, allow me to also point out that I never said that the game or any politics therein was my point. I have never mentioned the game up to this point. First Blops is not about politics, it's about shooting things. Taking the plot back to it's most basic levels, it's about a man who threatens the U.S. and the player character being one of the men sent to subdue him. The game's plot is also fictional which negates any "duty" it may have to anything in the real world. Has the U.S. done evil shit? Of course it has, I never said it hasn't. My point from the beginning was that Yahtzee chose to review this game in a way that barely talked about the game and just leveled a volley of insults at America.

maninahat:

GunsmithKitten:

maninahat:

Well that is something we just have to disagree on. As far as I'm concerned, casual remarks about the obnoxious political sentiments in a video game do not count as a political discourse. Either you find the American-centric messages of COD/MOH games annoying, or you don't - that's all there is to it. There is no need to start "tangling with the lions", or trying to debate the finer points of American foreign politics, when the issue is really about taste and story telling.

I DO find it tired and eye rolling, and that's not even the worst sin that the military FPS craze has brought to bear. I'm just sick and tired of the "White=in bed with the powers that be and pulling strings of power" garbage, and also tired of the "well, people who were your skin color oppressed people, so shut up and be quiet when non-whites are bigoted towards you."

This white privledge bullcrap is passive-aggressive racism and just a politer way of saying " other people with your skin color were dicks, so you are too." Who needs individuality these days, eh?

The argument boils down to whether you see white people as having advantages, purely by virtue of having been born into their specific place in society. It always seemed like common knowledge to me that being born black or Hispanic in the US puts you at a statistical disadvantage (more likely to have poorer education, prospects, security etc). That is entirely down to the historical treatment of race, and even if we aren't racist nowadays, we still get to enjoy the benefits of our place in society, as shaped out by those past racists.

Look, no one is saying that modern white people are racist, or even blaming them for being where they are in society. They are just saying they should take it into perspective. Especially before making yet another video game that portrays the most richest, powerful military industrial complex in the world as the victim.

Problem is, that mindset assumes that people in the most powerful, richest industrialized nation in the world can't ever be victims in the first place. And we can. We're flesh and blood, same as the rest.

ImmortalDrifter:
I didn't write the game, but I am an American who had nothing to do with it's development who you are blaming for it.

Did I actually directly blame you for it? Try harder man. If you aren't familiar with rhetorical generalisation and you are so vain that you think that every think that I write is explicitly directed at you, or I'm implicitly blaming you just because I quote you in a post then really...

Yes, I blame you, ImmortalDrifter, for all of Oliver North's crimes and for Treyarchs shitty story. You are specifically to blame.

Or I don't and I simply insist that this sort of thing is worth talking about and have no respect for the idea that politics should be shunted off to a corner so nobody gets offended over things they have no business being offended about.

TAdamson:

ImmortalDrifter:
I didn't write the game, but I am an American who had nothing to do with it's development who you are blaming for it.

Did I actually directly blame you for it? Try harder man. If you aren't familiar with rhetorical generalisation and you are so vain that you think that every think that I write is explicitly directed at you, or more directly I'm implicitly blaming you then really... Get over yourself.

Allow me to quote you again to freshen your memory. "Don't make horrible videogames that glorify your wars past present or imaginary,.. unless you're willing to do it with a modicum of circumspection or satirical intent." You made no mention of Treyarch or Activision or anyone else, that leaves me. Oh and forgive me for assuming that the reply you made to my comment was direct at me and my comment; obviously I'm vain for assuming that. Oh and again, congrats on ignoring everything else to respond with some condescending remark that makes absolutely no sense. You really have no idea what you're talking about do you?

Vince Cunningham:
Wow this has touched a nerve with some people. Chill out, it's just a game review, it's not like commenting on it is going to have ANY serious impact on the world and I would be amazed if Yahtzee reads half these comments. Just reading the first page made me want to cover myself in gasoline and stick lit fireworks into every orifice.

As far as the game goes the CoD franchise has been stagnant for far too long, particularly the gameplay which has barely changed and Yahtzee's review reflected that (i.e. the lack of any noteworthy features meant he talked about other stuff such as the whole racism thing). Although admittedly I am suprised he didn't mention Zombies, thought that might be the one bit of the game he found tolerable.

You say chill out but the first page makes you want to cover yourself in gasoline? *snicker*

This is quite normal here, a lot of people make assumptions and miss half the information so it gets ugly quickly. When you see a thread with a link explaining the situation in full, make sure you read it all to avoid ignorance.

As for the zombies, I've got a feeling that Yahtzee doesn't bother playing through all parts of the game when he believes they're terrible. His message is to not get it so I don't blame him though.

ImmortalDrifter:

TAdamson:

ImmortalDrifter:
I didn't write the game, but I am an American who had nothing to do with it's development who you are blaming for it.

Did I actually directly blame you for it? Try harder man. If you aren't familiar with rhetorical generalisation and you are so vain that you think that every think that I write is explicitly directed at you, or more directly I'm implicitly blaming you then really... Get over yourself.

Allow me to quote you again to freshen your memory. "Don't make horrible videogames that glorify your wars past present or imaginary,.. unless you're willing to do it with a modicum of circumspection or satirical intent." You made no mention of Treyarch or Activision or anyone else, that leaves me. Oh and forgive me for assuming that the reply you made to my comment was direct at me and my comment; obviously I'm vain for assuming that. Oh and again, congrats on ignoring everything else to respond with some condescending remark that makes absolutely no sense. You really have no idea what you're talking about do you?

Why would you be so vain to think I am directly blaming you? Even with those words why would you think that? Is it ego mania?

Very well. If you don't want to get impeached don't have your staff break into the Watergate or get blowjobs from interns.

Clearly I'm talking about you directly right? I quoted your post so I must be talking about you.

Edit: Screw it, I'm not in the mood for this circle of debate..nothing to see in this space!

I'm guessing this video was an elaborate scheme to cause rage. If that is the case, well done. Seriously, nothing beats the sound of bad social political jokes being forced into a review.

OT: ...I love how I nearly forgot about the game he is reviewing. It seems like Yahtzee is being very harsh on blops 2 (some of it was on point though). Seems kinda overboard than what his usual criticism, but I guess he might be tired of reviewing mainstream games. Also, I'm kinda of disappointed that he didn't have anything to say about the alternate endings I keep hearing about. O wells.

I found myself laughing more than I should in BLOPs 2, especially when the protagonist goes on a rampage (pity about his sister though). But I'm very sad about the chicken. One bite was simply not enough and the puppy's eyes are haunting my dreams.

From the looks of it, I suspect Yahtzee is tired of reviewing spunkgargleweewee games. Hang in there man!

TAdamson:

Why would you be so vain to think I am directly blaming you? Even with those words why would you think that? Is it ego mania?

No I assume you're talking to me because you're talking to me. If you said something that wasn't directed at me you should have put it in a different post to avoid confusion. It doesn't make me vain it makes you lazy.

Very well. If you don't want to get impeached don't have your staff break into the Watergate or get blowjobs from interns.

This has nothing to do with anything we were talking about. Making it stupid and pointless, like most of what you have been saying if it hasn't been related to our conversation.

Clearly I'm talking about you directly right? I quoted your post so I must be talking about you.

It implies that you are, and if you aren't then quoting my damn post is completly irrelevant.

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