Zero Punctuation: Call of Duty: Black Ops 2

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 NEXT
 

I haven't played this game so I don't know if its as racist as yahtzee claims... So lets give the benefit of the doubt and put that point aside for the purpose of this post

1. This "review" starts off by claiming only "whites" and "right wingers" like spunkgargleweewee games in general (which are clarified as games for really stupid people). There are stupid people of all colors and creeds.

Of course he later claims racist white people are liking it because the game itself is racist, that is a different thing and not an issue if true (I have no idea, didn't play game).

2. Yahtzee spews a torrent of racism on this "review". And justifies it by saying its ok to be bigoted towards men, white people, americans, and christians. On occasion justifying that justification with horrible generalizations (eg, all Christians are bigots and deserve to be mistreated). Offensive doesn't begin to describe it. There is no such thing as "acceptable" bigotry.

I have a theory that Yahtzee just got really tired of all the sexism threads and this is his attempt to shift the bulk of the discussion on the forums.

GunsmithKitten:

maninahat:

GunsmithKitten:
a

Not when said slogan maker is revered as a demi-god and the last final word on a hobby by so many people.

No, he's not snarking on video game jingoism, he dived right into the pit of political discourse, and if he's gonna act like a gladiator in that arena, he's gonna tangle with the lions just like the rest of us.

Well that is something we just have to disagree on. As far as I'm concerned, casual remarks about the obnoxious political sentiments in a video game do not count as a political discourse. Either you find the American-centric messages of COD/MOH games annoying, or you don't - that's all there is to it. There is no need to start "tangling with the lions", or trying to debate the finer points of American foreign politics, when the issue is really about taste and story telling.

I DO find it tired and eye rolling, and that's not even the worst sin that the military FPS craze has brought to bear. I'm just sick and tired of the "White=in bed with the powers that be and pulling strings of power" garbage, and also tired of the "well, people who were your skin color oppressed people, so shut up and be quiet when non-whites are bigoted towards you."

This white privledge bullcrap is passive-aggressive racism and just a politer way of saying " other people with your skin color were dicks, so you are too." Who needs individuality these days, eh?

White privilege is saying whites DON'T GET AS MUCH RACISM AS OTHERS. Not that you automatically suck or evil, just more fortunate STATISTICALLY.

It DOESN'T mean you are automatically rich, but what it DOES MEAN is that you are statistically more fortunate and more LIKELY open with your life. At the end of the day that's what matters, statistics. People don't focus on whites because they encompass ALL aspects of social class and are not bound by largely by racial rules. Minorities, and women LARGELY DON'T HAVE THE SAME UPWARD MOBILITY.

When taking all the statistics into account, whites are more fortunate in a number of areas and are not restricted as much as others.

If you are not EXTREMELY effected by a form of discrimination STATISTICALLY, that is privilege. That's all it means. That's all it ever meant. It was never meant that you're evil in official circles.

Its just a numbers game through statistics and number crunchers. A term to describe DISPARITIES in STATISTICAL GRAPHS.

The only way one can interpret that as hatred is the same people who thought "death panels" meant Obama was going to start killing everyone.

ObsidianJones:
Honestly, this whole thread has made me severely uncomfortable with all the seething going on.

For a little bit, I think I'm going to feel uncomfortable being a non-white escapist member. There's just... a lot of anger here.

Speaking as a young white somewhat wealthy heterosexual male gamer, I assure you that we aren't all racist entitled little shits.

ObsidianJones:
Honestly, this whole thread has made me severely uncomfortable with all the seething going on.

For a little bit, I think I'm going to feel uncomfortable being a non-white escapist member. There's just... a lot of anger here.

Tell me about it. I posted about how we should be all equal and how times in my country is much nicer (and fairer) towards other races and not even an hour later I receive 4-5 quotes of people being angry at me, 2 of them logical and nice to debate with and the others- well... I didn't bother replying cause it would do no good.

Fear not, people can get worked up but The Escapist has reasonable and considerate people here. As long as you tend to others and respect their opinions, you'll do fine. If yah need anything, please feel free to notify me. Besides that, I am a white male and I really don't see any differences in race. We're all people, and I sort of (in another thread) got into a preachy tone about how we should stand up against this 'white privilege' thing going on or the fact people put their group over others- that's just silly. We need to all take account that we're humanity, not different species all because of color differences.

I think a lot of you are missing the point. Yahtzee implied that if someone like Menendez were actually trying to destroy the US military, he would be justified in doing so by sheer virtue of being nonwhite, non-American and from a poor country. That's where the review got disturbing and borderline racist, at least to me. Isn't that pretty much like saying that America deserved 9/11 because Bin Laden is nonwhite and non-American?

Either that or he was insinuating the writers were being paranoid to even imagine said scenario in the first place. But Treyarch was ordered to make a war game involving America and not set in World War II. There's not much leeway there; it's either someone nonwhite or the bloody Russians again, and we already knows how he feels about that. Painting the Americans involved, at least the ones in the past, as assholes and showing that there was no right side to take in the conflicts involved is both pretty accurate and rather progressive, considering. Even Spec Ops: the Line is about a minor conflict caused by a single looney who mostly only slaughters fellow Americans.

(Full disclosure: My understanding of this game is based on an incomplete playthrough I've been watching lately. Feel free to correct me if some deus ex machina shows up later in the game revealing how, no really, everything the Americans did the entire time really was justified.)

I'm going to buy this game out of spite.

TAdamson:

The game even has the Contras "rape and murder" Menendez's people.... And then the CIA assassinates his father and later some of the game's protagonists fuck up and kill his sister. But no, he's totally the bad guy not the product of botched American interventions.

did you play the game? did Menedez ever do anything that might warrant anything that ever happened to him? The CIA assassinated his father because he was a major Nicaraguan cartel leader. i can think off the top of my head a few things his father would have had to do TOO GET in the position never mind stay in power. not very savory things. ok so the CIA killed a drug lord.

to go further and the actual events of the story mendez is just as guilty as the rest

[SPOILER]Woods did kill his sister. why? well maybe because he lost his shit and tried to throw a freaking grenade at the dude that bounced into the wrong room accident. but it's a cycle of revenge here Woods freaked out, why? because when he was POW Menedez tortured and killed his whole squad and left him to starve to death i a shipping container for weeks with the rotting corpses of his dead friends. So the next time he runs into him he looses his shit and an accident happened.

Menedez got revenge for that when he kidnapped Mason's son, tricked Woods into shooting Mason, Shot woods in the Kneecaps with a combat shot gun, did the same to Hudson before slashing his throat. and then tried to destabilize and over throw America and china and kill millions of people by taking control of an army of attack drones and sicking them on American and Chinese citizens. [SPOILER]

yes he is such a sympathetic freedom fighter. yes he never hurt anybody big bad 'merica just had it out for him.

America was not the big enemy here this was a much closer interplay between Woods, Menedez, the Masons and the CIA. Manendez did things to people in "revenge" for what the CIA did to him people who had no hand in those events. Then that Person (woods) struck back and it had unintended consequences, then Menedez again upped the ante with his whole "destroy America and china for revenge" mission

dystopiaINC:
-

You do know the real history of that period don't you? The US funded the drug dealers (The Contras) that the game explicitly states were raping and killing his people.

Iran Contra?

....No?....

TAdamson:

dystopiaINC:
-

You do know the real history of that period don't you? The US funded the drug dealers that the game explicitly states were raping and killing his people.

Iran Contra?

....No?....

Yes I know about the Iran-Cpntra bullshit I know trust me. that still has nothing to do with the atrocities Manedez directly took part in nor the things he did in the 2025 story arc. The story is about the cycle of revenge that keeps getting upped in scale over the years if anything the Iran-Contra issues are with Manedez's father to say he's sympathetic because his sister was killed by Americans is false when you look at the whole thing, just who killed his sister, why it happened and so on. and i call bull crap on using real history when it was never brought up in game never referenced. it may have been in the back ground but who knows. and besides black ops has not been playing by the same history books, masons shot jfk, the whole nova gas thing, and other weirdness like weapons being in service years before they were invented in the real world (blops1) toss that argument out the window. we don't know how the Iran Contra indecent played out on Black ops

dystopiaINC:

TAdamson:

dystopiaINC:
-

You do know the real history of that period don't you? The US funded the drug dealers that the game explicitly states were raping and killing his people.

Iran Contra?

....No?....

Yes I know about the Iran-Cpntra bullshit I know trust me. that still has nothing to do with the atrocities Manedez directly took part in nor the things he did in the 2025 story arc. The story is about the cycle of revenge that keeps getting upped in scale over the years if anything the Iran-Contra issues are with Manedez's father to say he's sympathetic because his sister was killed by Americans is false when you look at the whole thing, just who killed his sister, why it happened and so on. and i call bull crap on using real history when it was never brought up in game never referenced. it may have been in the back ground but who knows. and besides black ops has not been playing by the same history books, masons shot jfk, the whole nova gas thing, and other weirdness like weapons being in service years before they were invented in the real world (blops1) toss that argument out the window. we don't know how the Iran Contra indecent played out on Black ops

I'm sorry. I have nbo sympathy for anybody in this story.

The only person who is remotely relatable is Menendez. Yes he's a bad guy but his outrage it totally personal and understandable.

"and besides black ops has not been playing by the same history books, masons shot jfk, the whole nova gas thing, and other weirdness like weapons being in service years before they were invented in the real world (blops1) toss that argument out the window. we don't know how the Iran Contra indecent played out on Black ops"

This is completely specious. If you want to write alt-history then you better make it damn obvious that you're writting alt-history.

All I get from the specific dates, people, and places featured in black ops is that the protagonists were probably prime actors in Iran-Contra or at least complicit and that shit happens off screen. It's heavily suggested with the presence of the contras in the dialogue and the fucking appearance of of Oliver North in what can only be called a cameo.

Much like in BlOps 1 the protagonists are the sort of people who were probably actively engineering the sale of cocaine and heroin to sponsor anticommunist activity. But no. In COD world Americans don't do that sort of thing.

I think the most important issue is that people have chosen to take the term 'spunkgargleweewee' and run with it.

Machine Man 1992:
snip

I think you seriously need to calm down...so yahtzee didn't like a game you like....he's done that with my favorite games too, but I don't go off on rants insulting everyone because I'm a bit upset

YCRanger:
I think the most important issue is that people have chosen to take the term 'spunkgargleweewee' and run with it.

Yeah, it carries unfortunate implication that gargling spunk is as morally repugnant as playing military shooters.

GunsmithKitten:

maninahat:
snip

Problem is, that mindset assumes that people in the most powerful, richest industrialized nation in the world can't ever be victims in the first place. And we can. We're flesh and blood, same as the rest.

Of course they (we) can be victims; but as far as video games are concerned, the US is always the victim. That's the aggravating part. The narrative is always about America being invaded by foreigners. Even when the game takes place in other countries, the emphasis is on how hard it is for American troops, rather than the strife of the locals. The BLOP games are designed to show the darker side of America, but they are still ultimately a story about heroic Americans trying to stop the outsiders.

maninahat:

GunsmithKitten:

maninahat:
snip

Problem is, that mindset assumes that people in the most powerful, richest industrialized nation in the world can't ever be victims in the first place. And we can. We're flesh and blood, same as the rest.

Of course they (we) can be victims; but as far as video games are concerned, the US is always the victim. That's the aggravating part. The narrative is always about America being invaded by foreigners. Even when the game takes place in other countries, the emphasis is on how hard it is for American troops, rather than the strife of the locals. The BLOP games are designed to show the darker side of America, but they are still ultimately a story about heroic Americans trying to stop the outsiders.

Shooters were basically born in the US so is it really a surprise as to what their primary content is?

It's exactly like how the overwhelming majority of game developers are male, so male characters are always vastly more well-developed and characterized compared to female characters (that is, when they even show up).

Ultratwinkie:

White privilege is saying whites DON'T GET AS MUCH RACISM AS OTHERS. Not that you automatically suck or evil, just more fortunate STATISTICALLY.

It DOESN'T mean you are automatically rich, but what it DOES MEAN is that you are statistically more fortunate and more LIKELY open with your life. At the end of the day that's what matters, statistics. People don't focus on whites because they encompass ALL aspects of social class and are not bound by largely by racial rules. Minorities, and women LARGELY DON'T HAVE THE SAME UPWARD MOBILITY.

When taking all the statistics into account, whites are more fortunate in a number of areas and are not restricted as much as others.

If you are not EXTREMELY effected by a form of discrimination STATISTICALLY, that is privilege. That's all it means. That's all it ever meant. It was never meant that you're evil in official circles.

Its just a numbers game through statistics and number crunchers. A term to describe DISPARITIES in STATISTICAL GRAPHS.

The only way one can interpret that as hatred is the same people who thought "death panels" meant Obama was going to start killing everyone.

Does this sort of argument not seem to imply that peoples' races are rolled like some demented D&D game and that everyone in the world has a default disposition toward people of a certain race? There are most certainly other factors involved and to suggest some sort of privilege for a race seems extreme.

YCRanger:
I think the most important issue is that people have chosen to take the term 'spunkgargleweewee' and run with it.

Well, the gaming world's Gaius Augustus has proclaimed it such. Look what happened with "PC Gaming Master Race". If he makes a term, it's instantly part of the culture's lexicon. Not bad for "just a comedian", eh?

maninahat:

GunsmithKitten:

maninahat:
snip

Problem is, that mindset assumes that people in the most powerful, richest industrialized nation in the world can't ever be victims in the first place. And we can. We're flesh and blood, same as the rest.

Of course they (we) can be victims; but as far as video games are concerned, the US is always the victim. That's the aggravating part. The narrative is always about America being invaded by foreigners. Even when the game takes place in other countries, the emphasis is on how hard it is for American troops, rather than the strife of the locals. The BLOP games are designed to show the darker side of America, but they are still ultimately a story about heroic Americans trying to stop the outsiders.

And you know, I don't have a problem with a game going the sort of direction you indicated. Shoot, I have a game idea already that I'd be all over; play a Vietnamese nationalist guerilla gunning down Japanese occupiers in WW2, then later Euro forces and released Japanese soldiers trying to reoccupy as well as propped up SV puppets (who in actual history were no better than the creeps that the Russians ended up funding). Give me a Cod/Battlefield/whatever with that plot, and I'd pre-order that sucker.

Maybe that leads me to ask this; if you don't want the usual white boys in American wargear as a protagonist, then WHO do you want? Give me an example of someone worth sympathizing over in such a role, since I gave one that I'd be sympathetic to.

taltamir:

2. Yahtzee spews a torrent of racism on this "review". And justifies it by saying its ok to be bigoted towards men, white people, americans, and christians. On occasion justifying that justification with horrible generalizations (eg, all Christians are bigots and deserve to be mistreated). Offensive doesn't begin to describe it. There is no such thing as "acceptable" bigotry.

You forgot Japanese. He's racist toward Japanese too.

Honestly, i was looking forward to this review, so much so that i couldnt wait and just watched *insert random military shooter* review he did before.

...yeay Yahtzee dont like shooters, give them the good 'ol same bashing you do every time! people who play fps's are DUMB yes, and throw in that its linear!

i say this, yet i do really love his videos, and i dont really enjoy military shooters myself.
But i thought this game was pretty decent, and i get the feeling that the annual COD bashing is just that, annual, the pressure to deliver a negative review might actually cloud his view a bit where as he might focus on a negative part and nail that down focusing only on that negative part, missing any silver lining that may come along the way.

Either way, the military-shooter-bashing starting to be a bit same-y. ofc he's never ever gonna 100% like a game, thats why we all watch his videos, but i think he's said pretty much all he can say about shooters, so hes really just repeating now :-\

Disclaimer: I'm Norwegian, you see a spelling error, keep it to yourself unless you dont understand what i mean ;)

Vault101:

Machine Man 1992:
snip

I think you seriously need to calm down...so yahtzee didn't like a game you like....he's done that with my favorite games too, but I don't go off on rants insulting everyone because I'm a bit upset

No,no, read it again.

I'm not mad at Yahtzee. That rage was directed at YOU. And by you I mean the entire Escapist community. Every single one. Just one huge blanket of contempt for every user.

FallenMessiah88:
Also, It's called a first person shooter.

Did you actually watch the rant a few weeks ago? Admittedly the term "spunkgargleweewee" is a bit inflammatory, but there's actually a justification for not calling modern military games FPSes: they're a completely different genre from games like Doom, Half-Life 2, Painkiller, Halo and so on; that means the fact that someone likes traditional FPSes (Doom, Halo, etc) doesn't mean they'll like "realistic" military shooters and vice versa. Basically, saying "you just don't like spunkgargleweewee" is more concise than saying "you just don't like strictly linear cover-based 'realistic' modern military shooters" and more accurate than saying "you just don't like shooters."

GunsmithKitten:

maninahat:

GunsmithKitten:

Problem is, that mindset assumes that people in the most powerful, richest industrialized nation in the world can't ever be victims in the first place. And we can. We're flesh and blood, same as the rest.

Of course they (we) can be victims; but as far as video games are concerned, the US is always the victim. That's the aggravating part. The narrative is always about America being invaded by foreigners. Even when the game takes place in other countries, the emphasis is on how hard it is for American troops, rather than the strife of the locals. The BLOP games are designed to show the darker side of America, but they are still ultimately a story about heroic Americans trying to stop the outsiders.

And you know, I don't have a problem with a game going the sort of direction you indicated. Shoot, I have a game idea already that I'd be all over; play a Vietnamese nationalist guerilla gunning down Japanese occupiers in WW2, then later Euro forces and released Japanese soldiers trying to reoccupy as well as propped up SV puppets (who in actual history were no better than the creeps that the Russians ended up funding). Give me a Cod/Battlefield/whatever with that plot, and I'd pre-order that sucker.

Maybe that leads me to ask this; if you don't want the usual white boys in American wargear as a protagonist, then WHO do you want? Give me an example of someone worth sympathizing over in such a role, since I gave one that I'd be sympathetic to.

A Gurkha would be kind of interesting. You end up in all sorts of places (Nepal, India, Hong Kong, UK etc), your allegiance lies with a foreign country over your own (one which will casually mistreat you for your services), and you get to carry around a cool knife.

Alternatively - I like the idea of playing someone fending off an empire - maybe an Abyssinian fighting off the colonialists. You'd be playing as someone from an interesting culture which was genuinely victimised by a far more powerful enemy. Plus, Ethiopia actually has a reputation for managing to stave off the Empires for such a long time - a real underdog story.

Machine Man 1992:

I'm not mad at Yahtzee. That rage was directed at YOU. And by you I mean the entire Escapist community. Every single one. Just one huge blanket of contempt for every user.

What the hell did I do?

You know what? I have an idea for a modern military shooter. It would be set in a alternate timeline where World War 1 never happened, so Europe would've been locked in the armed peace period throughout all of the XX century, with hostilities starting in early 2010. You play as Wilhelm Schneider and as Boris Gorodetsky, a german imperial frontline soldier and as a russian saboteur respectively. With both, you experience the start of the war all jacked up with nationalism for both parties which starts getting overshadowed by the horrid atrocities you experience or commit during the campaign, as you witness the nerve shriveling gun fire of the frontlines and the more morally questionable missions your respective goverments send you to do. The old strategies would have to brutally adapt to new weapons such as sarin gas, white phosphorus and radiological weapons used freely, finally coming to terms with the lunacy and hatred that warfare entails.

This would imply a vastly different warzone, as tanks are not as advanced, planes are mostly used for recon with nuclear weapons being phased out for more cost efficient thermobaric ordenance (the world would run on nuclear power mostly).

What do you think? It would be better than what we have now?

CrossLOPER:

Ultratwinkie:

White privilege is saying whites DON'T GET AS MUCH RACISM AS OTHERS. Not that you automatically suck or evil, just more fortunate STATISTICALLY.

It DOESN'T mean you are automatically rich, but what it DOES MEAN is that you are statistically more fortunate and more LIKELY open with your life. At the end of the day that's what matters, statistics. People don't focus on whites because they encompass ALL aspects of social class and are not bound by largely by racial rules. Minorities, and women LARGELY DON'T HAVE THE SAME UPWARD MOBILITY.

When taking all the statistics into account, whites are more fortunate in a number of areas and are not restricted as much as others.

If you are not EXTREMELY effected by a form of discrimination STATISTICALLY, that is privilege. That's all it means. That's all it ever meant. It was never meant that you're evil in official circles.

Its just a numbers game through statistics and number crunchers. A term to describe DISPARITIES in STATISTICAL GRAPHS.

The only way one can interpret that as hatred is the same people who thought "death panels" meant Obama was going to start killing everyone.

Does this sort of argument not seem to imply that peoples' races are rolled like some demented D&D game and that everyone in the world has a default disposition toward people of a certain race? There are most certainly other factors involved and to suggest some sort of privilege for a race seems extreme.

Its an umbrella term used, short hand, to describe why whites have it better when it comes to stats. It includes a litany of factors, the majority whites are not effected by.

The factors are well known, and it has to do with MODERN RACISM, Current economy, and the LINGERING EFFECTS OF PAST RACISM AND PAST DISCRIMINATION. Racism that whites never had to go through just BECAUSE of their skin in the PAST, so they are not stuck in an unending loop of suffering NOW.

Yet it all boils down to institutionalized racism that still lingers, and minorities just being less lucky. When whites are practically the only ones not effected CONSISTENTLY its called white privilege. Its more than just ONE graph that led to this, it was CONSISTENT graphs over DECADES. Ever since we started recording this kind of stuff.

To say white privilege does not exist is to toss the entire field of statistics out the window. The fact white privilege's existence is about as irrefutable as Evolution at this point. The same as women still being effected by sexism.

The charts don't lie, especially a metric fuck ton of charts that all say the same damn thing.

i dont know why yahtzee is putting politics into a game, especially one as fucking stupid as COD...er i mean gargley wee wee

it isnt for gun nuts because the gun mechanics are bullshit and ARMA, BF, STALKER, Red Orchestra, and similar games are the /k/ approved ones.
it isnt for 'white people' because we have better games like Halo.
so 'stupid paranoid white people' should be shortened to 'stupid people'.

really these games are for no one except the retard teens who but it and think its fun.

DataSnake:

FallenMessiah88:
Also, It's called a first person shooter.

Did you actually watch the rant a few weeks ago? Admittedly the term "spunkgargleweewee" is a bit inflammatory, but there's actually a justification for not calling modern military games FPSes: they're a completely different genre from games like Doom, Half-Life 2, Painkiller, Halo and so on; that means the fact that someone likes traditional FPSes (Doom, Halo, etc) doesn't mean they'll like "realistic" military shooters and vice versa. Basically, saying "you just don't like spunkgargleweewee" is more concise than saying "you just don't like strictly linear cover-based 'realistic' modern military shooters" and more accurate than saying "you just don't like shooters."

Yes I did, but here's the thing. They're called first person shooters because you shoot things from a first person percpective. You do that in Doom as well as in Call Of Duty.

Using the term "spunkgargleweewee" is like using a word like "satan sex worshippers" to describe people who like heavy metal.

If you really must put give a specific name to every sort of FPS, then start by not using inflammatory terms like these. Why not just call them Modern Military Shooters or MMS's like TotalBiscuit does?

Ultratwinkie:

The charts don't lie, especially a metric fuck ton of charts that all say the same damn thing.

None of which you chose to provide.

In any case, when do you suppose that the privilege expires so I can go on the London subway and use racist epithets without being arrested?

Ultratwinkie:
[quote="CrossLOPER" post="6.394759.16027131"][quote="Ultratwinkie" post="6.394759.16025448"]

Its an umbrella term used, short hand, to describe why whites have it better when it comes to stats. It includes a litany of factors, the majority whites are not effected by.

The factors are well known, and it has to do with MODERN RACISM, Current economy, and the LINGERING EFFECTS OF PAST RACISM AND PAST DISCRIMINATION. Racism that whites never had to go through just BECAUSE of their skin in the PAST, so they are not stuck in an unending loop of suffering NOW.

Yet it all boils down to institutionalized racism that still lingers, and minorities just being less lucky. When whites are practically the only ones not effected CONSISTENTLY its called white privilege. Its more than just ONE graph that led to this, it was CONSISTENT graphs over DECADES. Ever since we started recording this kind of stuff.

To say white privilege does not exist is to toss the entire field of statistics out the window. The fact white privilege's existence is about as irrefutable as Evolution at this point. The same as women still being effected by sexism.

The charts don't lie, especially a metric fuck ton of charts that all say the same damn thing.

while i agree being white may (big emphasis on MAY)work to ones advantage, to say this is the only reason to ones demographic being a success is ignorant. alot of it boils down to culture and attitude and location.

but to even remotely hold shit that went down 150 years ago to people today who have never experienced, been subject, or victim to it is silly. Im a WASP and i still have to work my ass off to get where i am, im not handed anything because of my demographic. my family didnt earn its position as middle class for being white or oppressing people, because we never oppressed anyone. if anything, as Irish decent, we were oppressed but it doesnt carry on to next generations. we dont cry about it, we dont care, what matters is what WE do.

Also, im not sure what graphs you mean, but if it shows the success of certain demographics, then it doesn't show 'white privilege' as much as it highlights cultural issues in certain groups.
but again, i dont know what 'graph you're talking about, but id have to see a specific one to actually make a statment about it.

CrossLOPER:

Ultratwinkie:

The charts don't lie, especially a metric fuck ton of charts that all say the same damn thing.

None of which you chose to provide.

In any case, when do you suppose that the privilege expires so I can go on the London subway and use racist epithets without being arrested?

probably about the time England stops being a police state that arrest people for being mean on facebook.

also that 'privilege' wont actually expire, as long as that history exist, they will hold it over your head as an axcuse for their short comings, what you do i call their bullshit and fight back.

FallenMessiah88:
Yes I did, but here's the thing. They're called first person shooters because you shoot things from a first person percpective. You do that in Doom as well as in Call Of Duty.

Using the term "spunkgargleweewee" is like using a word like "satan sex worshippers" to describe people who like heavy metal.

If you really must put give a specific name to every sort of FPS, then start by not using inflammatory terms like these. Why not just call them Modern Military Shooters or MMS's like TotalBiscuit does?

Someone mentioned in the Warfighter thread that MMS is already used, so what about MWS (Modern Warfare Shooter) or RMS (Realistic Military Shooter)? And the point stands, saying someone "just doesn't like shooters" because they hate BF3 and MW3 is like saying they "just don't like games": too broad, because there are other kinds they DO like.

EDIT: Also, "Satan Sex Worshippers" would be a good name for a heavy metal band.

Jegsimmons:

Ultratwinkie:
[quote="CrossLOPER" post="6.394759.16027131"][quote="Ultratwinkie" post="6.394759.16025448"]

Its an umbrella term used, short hand, to describe why whites have it better when it comes to stats. It includes a litany of factors, the majority whites are not effected by.

The factors are well known, and it has to do with MODERN RACISM, Current economy, and the LINGERING EFFECTS OF PAST RACISM AND PAST DISCRIMINATION. Racism that whites never had to go through just BECAUSE of their skin in the PAST, so they are not stuck in an unending loop of suffering NOW.

Yet it all boils down to institutionalized racism that still lingers, and minorities just being less lucky. When whites are practically the only ones not effected CONSISTENTLY its called white privilege. Its more than just ONE graph that led to this, it was CONSISTENT graphs over DECADES. Ever since we started recording this kind of stuff.

To say white privilege does not exist is to toss the entire field of statistics out the window. The fact white privilege's existence is about as irrefutable as Evolution at this point. The same as women still being effected by sexism.

The charts don't lie, especially a metric fuck ton of charts that all say the same damn thing.

while i agree being white may (big emphasis on MAY)work to ones advantage, to say this is the only reason to ones demographic being a success is ignorant. alot of it boils down to culture and attitude and location.

but to even remotely hold shit that went down 150 years ago to people today who have never experienced, been subject, or victim to it is silly. Im a WASP and i still have to work my ass off to get where i am, im not handed anything because of my demographic. my family didnt earn its position as middle class for being white or oppressing people, because we never oppressed anyone. if anything, as Irish decent, we were oppressed but it doesnt carry on to next generations. we dont cry about it, we dont care, what matters is what WE do.

Also, im not sure what graphs you mean, but if it shows the success of certain demographics, then it doesn't show 'white privilege' as much as it highlights cultural issues in certain groups.
but again, i dont know what 'graph you're talking about, but id have to see a specific one to actually make a statment about it.

I am talking about white privilege in America. The same place where the civil rights movement was in the 1970s and still continues now. Hardly 150 years ago.

And Again. I am not talking about YOU PERSONALLY. White Privilege exist in a STATISTICAL SPACE. A level BIGGER THAN YOU.

This is the cycle:

Racism devalues black man. Gets lower wage.

Black man raises child.

Chance A -> Child just happens to work hard. White child accepted into college instead of him.

Child works in low wage environment in a college job oriented country. Rinse and repeat.

If Child is accepted, the child has a harder time getting work because of his race.

Chance B -> Family can't afford college.

Child works in low wage under crippling college debt. Child couldn't find work due to his race. Rinse and repeat until hope is dead.

Hell, A California did a study on this in 2003.

Racism has practically screwed minorities either into a never ending cycle of poverty or limiting how high a normal person can achieve. Its much like the feminist's use of the word "glass ceiling." A poverty cycle that is very hard to break and very easy to slip back into. Its still a very real problem, and that is the reason affirmative action EXISTS. Its so the poverty cycle CAN be broken and that EVERYONE has the SAME chances at life. Its not reverse racism, its helping people have a shot at escaping the ghetto and actually have hope of doing something without fear of sliding back into poverty.

But we don't live in that perfect world. Not everyone has the same chances you have and not everyone is treated the same. Its an appealing sentiment, but not a realistic one that takes real world problems into account.

We are not a post race society yet. Thousands of years of racism doesn't go away over night or when Obama took office. There is still a lot of ways to go. A lot of issues that need to be solved.

To say that minorities don't work hard is like breaking a man legs then blaming him for his leg being broken. Its unfair, and frankly exudes a persecution complex.

No one is coming to hurt you. The "scary" black man isn't scary. The woman isn't coming to castrate you and take your stuff. To use this "us vs them" mentality against helping correct problems set in motion in the past is severely paranoid. Around the same level as people who think Red Dawn will happen in 2012. This mentality on the Escapist has to stop because it stopped being cute and is now well into the "creepy" category and getting extremely near "Fox News" level of fear.

CrossLOPER:

Ultratwinkie:

The charts don't lie, especially a metric fuck ton of charts that all say the same damn thing.

None of which you chose to provide.

In any case, when do you suppose that the privilege expires so I can go on the London subway and use racist epithets without being arrested?

I am too tired of this thread, and have no time to go hunting down every single graph from those studies again. So here is the general overview:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege#History

You can never do that in London, because they have hate crime laws and vigorously enforce them. They had those laws for quite a while. A cultural thing.

The UK isn't that lenient on speech. It never was. Hell, they didn't like you criticizing the queen or government until the 90s.

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here