Erin and Hobbes #2

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Susan Arendt:
Wow. The amount of overreacting in this thread is fascinating.

*gets popcorn*

MiracleOfSound:
Never have I seen so many drama queens all getting their underpants twisted in one thread over something so trivial.

What do you think the bigger factor is in this drama explosin? Hobbes, or COD?

The fact that people are getting offended by this comic offends me.

canadamus_prime:
Black Ops II corrupts absolutely.

EDIT: Correction: XBOX Live corrupts absolutely.

As evil as BlopsII is, it's tame compared to the holocaust of elitist bitching and blaming in League of Legends.

Atmos Duality:

canadamus_prime:
Black Ops II corrupts absolutely.

EDIT: Correction: XBOX Live corrupts absolutely.

As evil as BlopsII is, it's tame compared to the holocaust of elitist bitching and blaming in League of Legends.

Apparently sportsmanship is a concept that's lost on most online gamers.

The real question is "How Hobbe play a videogame if this doesn't exist?"

The answer of course is, "He doesn't, Erin did played"

And this is the reason why Hobbe act like that in this specific comics. Calvin saw Hobbe different cause he use his imagination.
The same goes for Erin.

My opinion of course cause in reality didn't read a lot of Calvin and Hobbes comics.

canadamus_prime:

Apparently sportsmanship is a concept that's lost on most online gamers.

Aye, and what's scary, is that I can actually see the appeal in blaming someone else in the heat of the moment.
Especially for any team game where the team composition and performance REALLY matters.

I try my best not to, because getting pissed hampers ones judgment, and the problem just snowballs out of control when everyone on your team starts doing it.

Atmos Duality:

canadamus_prime:

Apparently sportsmanship is a concept that's lost on most online gamers.

Aye, and what's scary, is that I can actually see the appeal in blaming someone else in the heat of the moment.
Especially for any team game where the team composition and performance REALLY matters.

I try my best not to, because getting pissed hampers ones judgment, and the problem just snowballs out of control when everyone on your team starts doing it.

What I really have to shake my head at is when people make excuses as to why they lost. "Oh that character's overpowered", "HAX", "fucker campers," that sort of thing. If you (generic) were really had any skill worth mentioning you wouldn't have to make excuses as to why you lost. One thing's for sure, no one ever makes excuses for why they won. You don't hear the winners complaining about hax or overpowered characters or campers or whatever. It's only the losers who can't accept the fact that there just might be someone better than them. And that's what makes them truly losers in my mind.

The comic was spot on. I only chat with my Xbox Live party and tend to shy away from chatting with the community at large playing the game (for the very same reason illustrated in the comic).

Atmos Duality:

canadamus_prime:

Apparently sportsmanship is a concept that's lost on most online gamers.

Aye, and what's scary, is that I can actually see the appeal in blaming someone else in the heat of the moment.
Especially for any team game where the team composition and performance REALLY matters.

I try my best not to, because getting pissed hampers ones judgment, and the problem just snowballs out of control when everyone on your team starts doing it.

I was listening to a conversation on Live (I find them grimly amusing) where one guy claimed that raging, and bellowing obscenities is part of the "COD experience," and when I think about it, I kind of agree with him. It's probably part of why I enjoy the series, no matter how broken its various installments get (and BLOPSII is very broken), playing it with friends is basically an evening of beer, gaming and creative expletives.

Imp Emissary:

Grey Carter:

Scorpid:
Well I know you guys wouldn't put out a comic that would get you sued, but it just dawned on me, between all the characters you use from popular games like Kratos and Zelda why aren't you being in danger of being sued?

Technically we're covered under the fair use doctrine on account of our work generally being parody. That wouldn't stop people from trying to sue us though, and if they did we wouldn't have the money to fight back. Really, the reason we don't get any legal threats or anything is because we're very small fish in a very large pond. The more popular you get, the bigger a target you become. See Penny Arcade and Strawberry Shortcake for an example of that.

o_0 The Strawberry Shortcake people sued Penny Arcade?!

>_> Hmmm...

They threatened legal action if Penny Arcade didn't remove a strip. Fun for everybody.

Grey Carter:

I was listening to a conversation on Live (I find them grimly amusing) where one guy claimed that raging, and bellowing obscenities is part of the "COD experience," and when I think about it, I kind of agree with him. It's probably part of why I enjoy the series, no matter how broken its various installments get (and BLOPSII is very broken), playing it with friends is basically an evening of beer, gaming and creative expletives.

I guess it's what you're looking for in an evening.
Personally, I put up with enough stressful nonsense and stupid crap that makes me facepalm in regular life.
Don't need my game time contributing to it.

Though I also believe there's a significant difference between the kind of jabbing vulgarity and "anger" you find among a casual night with friends and the kind that ends with a controller going through a TV.

canadamus_prime:

What I really have to shake my head at is when people make excuses as to why they lost. "Oh that character's overpowered", "HAX", "fucker campers," that sort of thing. If you (generic) were really had any skill worth mentioning you wouldn't have to make excuses as to why you lost. One thing's for sure, no one ever makes excuses for why they won. You don't hear the winners complaining about hax or overpowered characters or campers or whatever. It's only the losers who can't accept the fact that there just might be someone better than them. And that's what makes them truly losers in my mind.

When I get lagged out, I blame my ISP, not the person who is winning (and having lived with 56k up until 2009, yes, that was a common occurrence). It's the net. Shit breaks, it lags. It's not infallible.

As for "cheap strategies", I can see anyone getting bored with them after a time (a lazy victory feels hollow), but if you're playing to win, identifying the dominant strategy is in fact, playing the game as intended. So anyone bringing "skill" into the argument is already shooting themselves in the foot.

Atmos Duality:

canadamus_prime:

What I really have to shake my head at is when people make excuses as to why they lost. "Oh that character's overpowered", "HAX", "fucker campers," that sort of thing. If you (generic) were really had any skill worth mentioning you wouldn't have to make excuses as to why you lost. One thing's for sure, no one ever makes excuses for why they won. You don't hear the winners complaining about hax or overpowered characters or campers or whatever. It's only the losers who can't accept the fact that there just might be someone better than them. And that's what makes them truly losers in my mind.

When I get lagged out, I blame my ISP, not the person who is winning (and having lived with 56k up until 2009, yes, that was a common occurrence). It's the net. Shit breaks, it lags. It's not infallible.

Well that's legitimately something that's beyond your control, isn't it? Although I don't think bitching about it is going to change anything.

As for "cheap strategies", I can see anyone getting bored with them after a time (a lazy victory feels hollow), but if you're playing to win, identifying the dominant strategy is in fact, playing the game as intended. So anyone bringing "skill" into the argument is already shooting themselves in the foot.

Then perhaps one should find a way to counter the "dominant strategies" instead of whining about them. Because whining about them just makes one look like a sore loser.

Grey Carter:

Imp Emissary:

Grey Carter:

Technically we're covered under the fair use doctrine on account of our work generally being parody. That wouldn't stop people from trying to sue us though, and if they did we wouldn't have the money to fight back. Really, the reason we don't get any legal threats or anything is because we're very small fish in a very large pond. The more popular you get, the bigger a target you become. See Penny Arcade and Strawberry Shortcake for an example of that.

o_0 The Strawberry Shortcake people sued Penny Arcade?!

>_> Hmmm...

They threatened legal action if Penny Arcade didn't remove a strip. Fun for everybody.

Ha ha ha. Fun read.

Thank you Grey. Hope that never happens to you or Cory.

Susan Arendt:
Wow. The amount of overreacting in this thread is fascinating.

*gets popcorn*

Almost as fascinating as the Escapist handing out warnings over people criticizing the comic strip.

Krantos:
No.

No, No No No No.

See this is the problem I always have with people "Revisiting" classic cartoons. They always feel they have to make it darker. Like having Charlie Brown kill Lucy for pulling the ball away. Or Calvin's parents putting him on anti-psychotics.

The old strips' innocence is what made them good. Well, C&H was also good because of the way Calvin and Hobbes would tackle existential questions, but that's another story.

People using the characters like this is just stupid. It's basically saying "hurr, hurr, Hobbes is Swearing!"

The only time I've seen classic characters used well were those Bacon and Hobbes strips.

These Erin and Hobbes strips come across as the writers just saying "Hey LOOK! We're Using characters from another cartoon! Like Us because you like them! Do you like us yet?"

...then again, that's kind of what Crit Miss has been doing ever since Erin's hallucinations started. hmm...

I have to agree with this. Firstly, Calvin and Hobbes was well known for fairly deep humour at times which, I fear, these strips aren't going to reach that standard.

Secondly, this may be a silly question, but is it legal to have C&H in another comic strip? I'm assuming The Escapist hasn't had permission to do so, and I've read before that the creator is very protective of the C&H series.

SpiderJerusalem:

Susan Arendt:
Wow. The amount of overreacting in this thread is fascinating.

*gets popcorn*

Almost as fascinating as the Escapist handing out warnings over people criticizing the comic strip.

You mean WARNING.

Eh, the person kind of had it coming. Saying the comic was unoriginal is fair enogh, but going on to say that the comic was made to validate the person's sad life? Not so much.

Also, the tone of the comment seemed very hostile. Not really something you use for a good criticism.

SpiderJerusalem:

Susan Arendt:
Wow. The amount of overreacting in this thread is fascinating.

*gets popcorn*

Almost as fascinating as the Escapist handing out warnings over people criticizing the comic strip.

People are welcome to criticize the comic strip, the Escapist just draws the line at personal insults.

Terramax:

Secondly, this may be a silly question, but is it legal to have C&H in another comic strip? I'm assuming The Escapist hasn't had permission to do so, and I've read before that the creator is very protective of the C&H series.

Yes. Oddly, this question has never come up with any other characters.

Copper Zen:

Cory Rydell:

Krantos:

These Erin and Hobbes strips come across as the writers just saying "Hey LOOK! We're Using characters from another cartoon! Like Us because you like them! Do you like us yet?"

...then again, that's kind of what Crit Miss has been doing ever since Erin's hallucinations started. hmm...

Weve got another in the works that may change your mind, its going to be a mini arc.

I happen to be one of the (apparently few) vile and demented regular readers who enjoyed the previous hallucination arc. I'm looking forward to this next one.

Susan Arendt:
Wow. The amount of overreacting in this thread is fascinating.

*gets popcorn*

"Fascinating" isn't the first word that came to my mind. There's a vibe here similar to the one some people made about George Lucas "ruining" their childhood...

By the way, Susan: Why did SnakeoilSage's post earn him a warning? Did what he said qualify as a direct insult to Grey?

Pretty much, yep. Commenting on the content is one thing. Commenting on the creator is another.

Imp Emissary:

SpiderJerusalem:

Susan Arendt:
Wow. The amount of overreacting in this thread is fascinating.

*gets popcorn*

Almost as fascinating as the Escapist handing out warnings over people criticizing the comic strip.

You mean WARNING.

Eh, the person kind of had it coming. Saying the comic was unoriginal is fair enogh, but going on to say that the comic was made to validate the person's sad life? Not so much.

Also, the tone of the comment seemed very hostile. Not really something you use for a good criticism.

Bingo. Very well summarized.

Grey Carter:

Scorpid:
Well I know you guys wouldn't put out a comic that would get you sued, but it just dawned on me, between all the characters you use from popular games like Kratos and Zelda why aren't you being in danger of being sued?

Technically we're covered under the fair use doctrine on account of our work generally being parody. That wouldn't stop people from trying to sue us though, and if they did we wouldn't have the money to fight back. Really, the reason we don't get any legal threats or anything is because we're very small fish in a very large pond. The more popular you get, the bigger a target you become. See Penny Arcade and Strawberry Shortcake for an example of that.

One of my other favorite webcomics,[1] Manly Guys Doing Manly Things, must be a prime target for that sort of thing--being in danger of being sued, I mean--given that its writer/creator has been using video game and comic book characters as a central theme since day one.

You might e-mail Coelasquid (if you don't know her already) and pick through her brain to find out if she's got the low-down on parody vs piracy laws, Grey.

[1] Yes, Critical Miss is one of my favorites. Don't let it go to your head, Grey.

canadamus_prime:

Well that's legitimately something that's beyond your control, isn't it? Although I don't think bitching about it is going to change anything.

I only "whine" when people keep bitching at me about it. Generally speaking, I employ the /ignore or some equivalent function if available, when the whining gets out of hand.

Then perhaps one should find a way to counter the "dominant strategies" instead of whining about them. Because whining about them just makes one look like a sore loser.

That's the idea.
"Metagaming" is exactly that. Finding what works, and looking for gambits around it.

Grey Carter:

SpiderJerusalem:

Susan Arendt:
Wow. The amount of overreacting in this thread is fascinating.

*gets popcorn*

Almost as fascinating as the Escapist handing out warnings over people criticizing the comic strip.

People are welcome to criticize the comic strip, the Escapist just draws the line at personal insults.

So, does that mean that this extends to the staff as well? Cause there's quite a few occasions that normal readers are given way harsher judgements over their posts than anyone else.

Susan Arendt:

Imp Emissary:

SpiderJerusalem:

Also, the tone of the comment seemed very hostile. Not really something you use for a good criticism.

Bingo. Very well summarized.

So this:

MiracleOfSound:
Never have I seen so many drama queens all getting their underpants twisted in one thread over something so trivial.

is then contributing to the thread enough that no such warning considerations were had?

NinjaDeathSlap:

Is Hobbes the Nerd equivalent of the Prophet Mohammed or something? Is it heresy to draw him out of character or make fun of him in any way?

Heh, that was a good analogy :) You can't mess with C&H, it seems. Any other characters from anything else are fine.

Nile McMorrow:
Scrub Cannon? What on earth is that?

Urban Dictionary:

In online gaming a scrublord will tend to create their own "moral rules" by which they believe others should play. They will generally make judgement calls about other peoples sanity, mental health, life chances, family history and social connectedness based purely on how closely they adhere to these moral rules.
These rules are often formed under the guise of "honour" or "fair play". They also may include statements such as "I only play for fun" or "I don't care, it's just a game".

Or "Scrub" for short. I take that "Scrub cannon" is some variation on this.

From what I can tell it's an insult used more commonly in the fighting game community

SpiderJerusalem:

Grey Carter:

SpiderJerusalem:

Almost as fascinating as the Escapist handing out warnings over people criticizing the comic strip.

People are welcome to criticize the comic strip, the Escapist just draws the line at personal insults.

So, does that mean that this extends to the staff as well? Cause there's quite a few occasions that normal readers are given way harsher judgements over their posts than anyone else.

Susan Arendt:

Imp Emissary:

Bingo. Very well summarized.

So this:

MiracleOfSound:
Never have I seen so many drama queens all getting their underpants twisted in one thread over something so trivial.

is then contributing to the thread enough that no such warning considerations were had?

All that is getting into kind of a subjective area.

Is saying that people getting mad about the comic are being "Drama Queens" an insult? Yeah, it is a bit.

But can you really say it's on par with claiming that a person is trying to leech off the success of another's creation in a desperate attempt to show that their life has value?

Being a bit insulting is one thing, but going out and attacking an individual's character is something else completely.

Also, to the point about adding to the thread. You can argue that the comment about people being drama queens (people overrecating) to be false. And you could back such an arguement up with reasons. Doing so will make Gavin have to either;

1. Not respond to you. (Meaning of course the talk goes nowhere.)
2. Give reasons why it is true that the people getting upset are overreacting.
3. Concede that they are not overreacting.
4. Say something along the lines of, "Shut up ya DRAMA QUEEN!!!11". (The last one giving him at least a warning because he was directly attacking you character with an insult.)

:/ Then again, I'm not the one who hands out warnings, so maybe someone just hit the wrong key?

Imp Emissary:
snip

Fair points all. And I do agree that this is probably not the best possible place for this discussion, but it was on my mind and since the Admins seemed to join in, it sparked up the topic. Mostly because I've seen more and more over the past year (or so, ever since the Extra Credits debacle) a situation where some of the staff are given more and more leeway over what they say and how, and others are punished more and more easier for things that could in no way be attributed as being malicious or mean.

So it's more of a general line of questioning, not just this single situation. (Do I honestly think that calling someone a drama queen is enough for a warning? Pfft, heck no.)

SpiderJerusalem:

Imp Emissary:
snip

Fair points all. And I do agree that this is probably not the best possible place for this discussion, but it was on my mind and since the Admins seemed to join in, it sparked up the topic. Mostly because I've seen more and more over the past year (or so, ever since the Extra Credits debacle) a situation where some of the staff are given more and more leeway over what they say and how, and others are punished more and more easier for things that could in no way be attributed as being malicious or mean.

So it's more of a general line of questioning, not just this single situation. (Do I honestly think that calling someone a drama queen is enough for a warning? Pfft, heck no.)

Vell well S.J.

I can't really comment on the subject because I have not experienced such goings on, and as ya said this isn't the best situation for the talk.

Anyway, have a nice day.

Nooners:
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! DON'T DO THIS! THIS IS NOT NEEDED!
Look at what Krantos said. He's right. Although I don't mind Erin's video-game hallucinations, I do greatly mind watching my old innocent friend Hobbes turn into the worst stereotype of an XBox Live player.

Don't. Do. This.

Not to mention the fact that his reaction completely goes against his personality. The dialogue here is something that Calvin would say, Hobbes wouldn't care about a stupid game. I never read these since I don't find them funny, but I clicked because of Hobbes. I saddened to find that the writers never understood the character and just crammed him in here.

Krantos:
Warning: Good luck leaving this site: www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2007/01/01

Oh come on, I have plenty of self control-
***ONE HOUR LATER***
Wait, what just hapGODDAMNIT

Lunar Templar:

o.0
I don't think there's enough profanity for such an unholy combination ...

>.>
<.<

who wants to try and get LoL on XBL JUST to watch the fireworks, cause I do

You have roused my curiosity. It must be done...For SCIENCE!

For those who are unfamiliar with C&H, I ran across this gem that illustrates part of the reason people love the strip so much:

C&H managed to thread the line between funny, innocent, and thought provoking. The only strip that I personally think has anything approaching C&H's timelessness is Peanuts.

That, combined with Watterson's very firm statements that he does not want the strip or characters used by other people is why these strips have been bothering people.

Still, comments from the artist (Cory) have made me interested to see where these strips go.

Here are two more gems:

Dansen:

Not to mention the fact that his reaction completely goes against his personality.

You mean like Kratos

The dialogue here is something that Calvin would say, Hobbes wouldn't care about a stupid game.

What about Hobbes filtered through Erin's mind?

I never read these since I don't find them funny, but I clicked because of Hobbes. I saddened to find that the writers never understood the character and just crammed him in here.

Or you don't understand the joke, perhaps? Rather than assume they've got it wrong, perhaps the subversion you're complaining about is part of what makes it funny? Or exactly what makes it funny?

thought Calvin and Hobbs would be more halo guys, or maybe just Calvin he is into space adventures and all that.
but too bad he doesn't have an xbox

NinjaDeathSlap:

Susan Arendt:
Wow. The amount of overreacting in this thread is fascinating.

*gets popcorn*

My thoughts exactly. I haven't seen so large a storm in so small a teacup since a child told some guy to pick a colour...

Is Hobbes the Nerd equivalent of the Prophet Mohammed or something? Is it heresy to draw him out of character or make fun of him in any way?

COLOUR here in 'MERICA its COLOR goddammit!

also yes they are over reacting, though.....i do understand their point. sometimes people takes jokes to far , or just ruin them all together.

for example people seem to think batman is a pedophile, while funny at first it has just become a stupid joke

*sits down with some popcorn as well*

Hopefully, we won't have to break out the Bacon and Hobbes comics again to calm everyone down...and cause them to cry manly tears.

CAPTCHA: yee haw

Well, CRAP! I think Calvin is the Captcha now!

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