Jimquisition: Dumbing Down for the Filthy Casuals

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Korten12:

Rooster Cogburn:
snip

Then should I stop trying to argue? Because if like you said I am not really doing it right.

You should keep at it, because you are doing a fine job. But you should stop arguing with people who do not engage you in meaningful discussion.

anthony87:

Rooster Cogburn:

So then don't play the easy mode. Imagine if you will, that Dark Souls as it is now is actually the "Normal Mode" while there's also an OPTIONAL "Easy Mode" where you have extra health, bosses and enemies hit for less and you don't lose souls when you die. Sounds shite right? Then don't play it. Stick to "Normal Mode" let the people who aren't as good at the game play the "Easy Mode", everyone is happy.

If you are not going to read my posts then don't quote me. It is not fair to me to waste my time. You obviously haven't read one word that anyone has said to you on this topic because you have not even begun to engage their arguments. It is not fair to waste everyone's time.

anthony87:

OPTIONAL

................

Sorry, it's just that so many people seem to be ignore the usage of the word optional that I figured I'd make it big and blue, maybe draw some attention to it.

EDIT: [quote="JustanotherGamer" post="6.395777.16097725"]yea me = every one else the way u = entitled consumer who should have every game cater to your preferences....... Again if you don't like it why break it for those that do???

Like you. An optional mode doesn't break the game. It adds an option. Hence "optional mode", not "break the game mode".

The next Civilization game should come with a submarine-sim mode for people who hate turn based strategy games but love submarine sims. This mode will of course be completely OPTIONAL.

Agree or disagree? Why or why not?

anthony87:

OPTIONAL

................

Sorry, it's just that so many people seem to be ignore the usage of the word optional that I figured I'd make it big and blue, maybe draw some attention to it.

Wow methinks someone is compensating for something. (these are the jokes kids, sorry for psuedo-ad hominem attack)

The difficulty setting would be optional, that may be true. But whatever content we may never see or isn't polished isn't optional for me. Sorry that I want the best Dark Souls II that From Software can deliver.

girzwald:

JustanotherGamer:

Dark souls is easy if you LEARN how to play it......

You =/= everyone else.

Whats easy for you =/= easy for everyone else.

So should we make a easier version of chess because I'm really bad at it? Should those those sim games add platforming because I don't find its main mechanic engaging? Should Starcraft auto-create my units since I don't know what I should build when? Should soccer fields be shorter since I can't run worth a damn? Should tetris include markers telling you where to put the blocks because my planning ahead skills suck? Should large novels come with a cliff-notes version because I lack patience? I could do this all day, why is it so absurd that if one wants to take part and enjoy something they learn the basic skills needed to understand that thing? It would be rather rude of me to go to some people playing magic and demand we play by my house rules just because I owned a deck.

Professor Uzzy:

BiH-Kira:
But more importantly, why are you against an OPTIONAL mode that won't affect you in any ways?

Because it would put the games storyline and themes in a position of dissonance with the mechanics.

You know how in many other games we complain about gameplay and story segregation, like cutscene incompetence, or when you kill the boss that's been built up as a huge threat in a matter of seconds? Countless games do that. Endlessly. Practically every game does that infact. So many games do it that we've become accepting of it.

Dark Souls doesn't. Again, the backstory of Dark Souls is of a brutal, unforgiving and slowly dying world that is no longer fit for human habitation. The mechanics back that up.

Why are you so desperate to cripple one of the few recent examples of mechanics and storyline working in harmony to deliver a complete experience?

If beating the game on "normal" is impossible for someone, then easy wouldn't make it a walk in the park. It would still be a brutal, unforgiving solowly dying world that is no longer fir for human habitation.

You seem to think that just because you would find the easy mode actually easy, everyone will find it easy. But that's not the case. Easy mode is for people who are not able to beat it on normal.

And even if people who can beat it on normal play it on easy and easy is indeed a walk in the park, it won't affect you if you play it on normal. If on the other hand you pick to play on easy, it's your own fault and you have no right to complain.

Good gosh...

PEOPLE, THINK FOR TWO SECONDS.

Dark Souls is made by From Software, and published by Atlus.

These are not stupid game makers.
They are NOT the kind of guys who make quick cash-ins and stupid game decisions!
They consistently churn out quality games!

HAVE A LITTLE FAITH IN THEM, FOR THE LOVE OF ADMIN. They're NOT going to fuck up your game!

They will NOT destroy the game with easy mode. They will find a way to make it work.

Furthermore, I keep hearing about how "blighttown" has tricky footing and that they'd NEED to change that in an easy mode. ...Why? Why WOULD they need to change that? From and Atlus are not going to make easy mode suck out all the challenge, that's not the kind of thing they do. They will likely just tweak a few things to give the less experienced players a leg up. They said they wanted to make Dark Souls more "Accessible", not "remove all challenge".

The amount of "fans" with no faith in From and Atlus is...staggering

BiH-Kira:

Adding an easy mode will take 3 days at most, few hours at best. It's simply editing some numbers nothing more. And it won't take away from the game because there is always a part of the dev. team that isn't working on anything at the moment which means they are free to work on the easy mode anyways.

You seem to know an awful lot about game development and how much work goes into changing things. May I ask where you got your experience? I would loved to be proved wrong by someone who knows what they are talking about.

The arguments for an easy mode for this game come from ignorance of the game itself. The game already has an easy mode in the form of multiplayer, you can get help with almost anything in the game although unfortunately you have to beat the first boss to get access to it, which is a possibly a problem with design but it is easy if you pay attention.

There are options offline too, though there could probably be more, offline play may be an issue, but i still managed and am by no means extraordinary.

In regard to the actual difficulty of the game, it has similar difficulty to the Darksiders or Devil may cry series except for some poorly designed bits (i'm looking at you capra demon). I think the misunderstanding has come from the stupid 'prepare to die' marketing campaign.

In regard to the 'Why not an easy mode' argument, adding an easy mode would damage the multiplayer aspect of the game by making it far less important and splitting the player base.

It would also substantially damage the atmosphere if you are no longer punished for running onto a new area without being cautious or come up against challenges you may not be ready for and require a different path.

There is also an aspect or pride that comes from overcoming the challenges Darksouls has to offer, making those achievements trivial would make the game far less interesting and turning to multiplyer as opposed to making it easy adds in a feeling of camaraderie, its just better design than an easy mode.

BioRex:

girzwald:

JustanotherGamer:

Dark souls is easy if you LEARN how to play it......

You =/= everyone else.

Whats easy for you =/= easy for everyone else.

So should we make a easier version of chess because I'm really bad at it? Should those those sim games add platforming because I don't find its main mechanic engaging? Should Starcraft auto-create my units since I don't know what I should build when? Should soccer fields be shorter since I can't run worth a damn? Should tetris include markers telling you where to put the blocks because my planning ahead skills suck? Should large novels come with a cliff-notes version because I lack patience? I could do this all day, why is it so absurd that if one wants to take part and enjoy something they learn the basic skills needed to understand that thing? It would be rather rude of me to go to some people playing magic and demand we play by my house rules just because I owned a deck.

Thanks i couldn't agree more well said.

aegix drakan:
Good gosh...

PEOPLE, THINK FOR TWO SECONDS.

Dark Souls is made by From Software, and published by Atlus.

These are not stupid game makers.
They are NOT the kind of guys who make quick cash-ins and stupid game decisions!
They consistently churn out quality games!

HAVE A LITTLE FAITH IN THEM, FOR THE LOVE OF ADMIN. They're NOT going to fuck up your game!

They will NOT destroy the game with easy mode. They will find a way to make it work.

Furthermore, I keep hearing about how "blighttown" has tricky footing and that they'd NEED to change that in an easy mode. ...Why? Why WOULD they need to change that? From and Atlus are not going to make easy mode suck out all the challenge, that's not the kind of thing they do. They will likely just tweak a few things to give the less experienced players a leg up. They said they wanted to make Dark Souls more "Accessible", not "remove all challenge".

The amount of "fans" with no faith in From and Atlus is...staggering

I'm not saying they would do that. I'm describing how making an easy mode for Dark Souls is not as simple as some people have been saying; you can't make Dark Souls easy just by altering health, stamina, and damage.

anthony87:
That was actually done with Devil May Cry 3. Basically our "Normal" difficulty mode was the Japanese "Hard" mode, our "Hard" was their "Dante Must Die" mode etc. The release of Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition fixed all that and even made it so that if you die you had the option of ressurecting and not starting the level over again provided you had the right item.

Surprisingly the world didn't burn with the existence of this easier version of a balls hard game.

There is no more clear way to demonstrate how badly you misunderstand this topic and Dark Souls generally then to point to the fact that you think adding easy mode to Dark Souls is merely adding an "easier version of a balls hard game."

Church185:

I'll answer your question simply. It's taken time away from making Dark Souls II, for a group of people that may not even care enough to buy the game to play said easy mode.

Those aren't answers to my questions. You in fact answered and addressed zero of them. While again spewing more false premises.

You continue to speak like making an easy mode would take away so much resources and so much time that not only will it do damage to dark souls 2, that it will be irreparable damage to the game and it will now be horrible because they took the eternity it would take to make a few tweaks. And you know, if they added in an easy mode, more people might buy the game meaning......OMG........more resources for dark souls 2, to make it better!

And of course its a risk that people might not buy it. Thats called life. And the developers were at least looking at the option so they at least thought in theory it would be worth it. But before the idea could really even get off the ground, the idea was shot down by the frothing nerd rage of teh hardcorez. And if anything is going to make people not want to buy dark souls, its the dark souls community. I've seen more polite and less egotistical people in a game of league of legends.

Mortrialus:
[quote="BiH-Kira" post="6.395777.16097512"]
Then there are enemies with knock backs. These can easily knock you straight off a ledge and to your death. The infested barbarians in Blighttown are an example. The most infamous is the Silver Archers in Anor Londo, which is honestly one of the trickier parts of the game (Though you can cheese them). Reducing how much damage they do and how much health they have isn't going to help much. Their bows shoot javelins, with a huge push back, even if you block them. So you'd have to completely change this enemy encounter for an easy mode.

Ok to be fair, they should totally redo the anor londo snipers anyway. That part of the game was pure BS.

girzwald:

Church185:

I'll answer your question simply. It's taken time away from making Dark Souls II, for a group of people that may not even care enough to buy the game to play said easy mode.

Those aren't answers to my questions. You in fact answered and addressed zero of them. While again spewing more false premises.

You continue to speak like making an easy mode would take away so much resources and so much time that not only will it do damage to dark souls 2, that it will be irreparable damage to the game and it will now be horrible because they took the eternity it would take to make a few tweaks. And you know, if they added in an easy mode, more people might buy the game meaning......OMG........more resources for dark souls 2, to make it better!

And of course its a risk that people might not buy it. Thats called life. And the developers were at least looking at the option so they at least thought in theory it would be worth it. But before the idea could really even get off the ground, the idea was shot down by the frothing nerd rage of teh hardcorez. And if anything is going to make people not want to buy dark souls, its the dark souls community. I've seen more polite and less egotistical people in a game of league of legends.

The Dark Souls community was very helpful to me when I first started and didn't know proper build planning from my elbow. Forums full of helpful people giving me hints, tips, and strategies for making my life in that bleak place better. Even for the people who don't want to take the time to seek out that portion of the community I think that From Software made a brilliant decision to reward players for helping out their fellow player and promoting "Jolly Cooperation". If anything, the Dark Souls community is the only reason I didn't walk away the first time I was frustrated with the game because I felt that it was unfair.

Church185:

BiH-Kira:

Adding an easy mode will take 3 days at most, few hours at best. It's simply editing some numbers nothing more. And it won't take away from the game because there is always a part of the dev. team that isn't working on anything at the moment which means they are free to work on the easy mode anyways.

You seem to know an awful lot about game development and how much work goes into changing things. May I ask where you got your experience? I would loved to be proved wrong by someone who knows what they are talking about.

Currently at a local university, studying to be a programmer.

In the first few lessons you learn that numbers that could change with updates/patches should be saved so that you can easily change them.

i.e. Make a file for enemies, every line would have name, health, damage, armor. If From finds out that some units are too powerful/weak, they can change only few numbers and patch them without making any serious changes. If all the stats are saved that way (and any competent developer will do something similar), you can make an easy mode by simply having another lane for easy and depending on the mode you chose at start, the game will pick either 1 or the other lane. or you could add few lines of code to take the numbers from the normal game mode and multiply them by 0.67/0.67/0.5. Now the enemy has 33% less health and armor while dealing 50% less damage.

And how I know that there is always a part of the dev. team that isn't currently working on the core game? A part of the team will have to wait for another part to finish before they are able to do their job. That part can be working on a different game or even on DLC's which is lately more common.

Rooster Cogburn:

anthony87:
That was actually done with Devil May Cry 3. Basically our "Normal" difficulty mode was the Japanese "Hard" mode, our "Hard" was their "Dante Must Die" mode etc. The release of Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition fixed all that and even made it so that if you die you had the option of ressurecting and not starting the level over again provided you had the right item.

Surprisingly the world didn't burn with the existence of this easier version of a balls hard game.

There is no more clear way to demonstrate how badly you misunderstand this topic and Dark Souls generally then to point to the fact that you think adding easy mode to Dark Souls is merely adding an "easier version of a balls hard game."

Oh look, more of this "You don't get it/understand" nonsense.....

You're right though, I don't understand how someone can think that adding a totally ignorable option to a game can end up ruining it but hey, that's just me.

Church185:

EvilRoy:

Church185:

Actually my friend, you can skip all of that if you would just summon a sunbro.

So if difficulty is that trivial to the game, why are people so up in arms about adding an easier difficulty?

Because when you summon a sunbro, you don't need to waste development costs for the sequel :D

Allowable development costs are based on budgets that are based on projected earnings. Adding an easy mode would boost projected earnings and therefore boost budgetary limits. From there it is a simple cost/benefit curve to decide if it's worth it or not.

The only reasonable way to argue that the developers, having decided to add an easy mode, are taking money away from the hard part of the game is to assume incompetence on the part of the developers.

How do you create a challenge that isn't a challenge? how do you create a feeling of achievement when there is no challenge? how do you create a feeling of dread tension and despair when the player can't die easy?
Why can't you play something else and leave the game i like alone?

Elois:

Ok to be fair, they should totally redo the anor londo snipers anyway. That part of the game was pure BS.

Those assholes have the most clutch spot ever XD

But they aren't the only place like that. Just earlier in the level you had the part in the Painted World building where you fought the Painting Guardians on the scaffolding.

Throughout the entirety of Dark Souls, it's almost entirely you encountering new enemies, combined with various environmental situations and hazards. All of it is painstakingly throughout to create a difficult but fair balance and to keep the game interesting. You just can't easily make a solid, well balanced easy mode for Dark Souls without fundamentally altering the game design before hand.

Mortrialus:

aegix drakan:
Good gosh...

PEOPLE, THINK FOR TWO SECONDS.

Dark Souls is made by From Software, and published by Atlus.

These are not stupid game makers.
They are NOT the kind of guys who make quick cash-ins and stupid game decisions!
They consistently churn out quality games!

HAVE A LITTLE FAITH IN THEM, FOR THE LOVE OF ADMIN. They're NOT going to fuck up your game!

They will NOT destroy the game with easy mode. They will find a way to make it work.

Furthermore, I keep hearing about how "blighttown" has tricky footing and that they'd NEED to change that in an easy mode. ...Why? Why WOULD they need to change that? From and Atlus are not going to make easy mode suck out all the challenge, that's not the kind of thing they do. They will likely just tweak a few things to give the less experienced players a leg up. They said they wanted to make Dark Souls more "Accessible", not "remove all challenge".

The amount of "fans" with no faith in From and Atlus is...staggering

I'm not saying they would do that. I'm describing how making an easy mode for Dark Souls is not as simple as some people have been saying; you can't make Dark Souls easy just by altering health, stamina, and damage.

No, you can't make it easy but you can make it easier. Maybe that'd be enough for some people to give it a try.

remember folks. Optional.

As long as games have trophies for completing hard modes that are actually somewhat difficult I don't care what they put easy modes into. Because you can't get the platinum without playing the game as its meant to be played.

All I have to do is compare trophies and at a glance I can see how many platinums they have and I can judge the player accordingly.

This doesn't work for Xbox achievements because with GS all you have to do is play many many games on easy mode to rack up a high score. You never have to play anything as its intended to get a brag-worthy score.

Now what about all those people who played Hannah Montana or all those Disney games for easy plats? Well, I guess those guys are a bit harder to judge at a glance, but upon inspection of their lists you can see they aren't worth a damn as gamers.

anthony87:

OPTIONAL

................

Sorry, it's just that so many people seem to be ignore the usage of the word optional that I figured I'd make it big and blue, maybe draw some attention to it.

Yes, you have gained my attention. :]

An option, however optional it may be, by definition gives you an alternative to something and enables you to resort to it if you so desire. This goes against what Dark Souls is trying to achieve. The very notion of an optional option degrades the experienced value of your efforts and in the case of Dark Souls lessens the amount of tension you experience. There is nothing you can do (aside from maybe erasing our memories) to avoid this from happening if the option is consciously known to be there. It's just how the concept of tension and our minds work.

Mortrialus:

Elois:

Ok to be fair, they should totally redo the anor londo snipers anyway. That part of the game was pure BS.

Those assholes have the most clutch spot ever XD

But they aren't the only place like that. Just earlier in the level you had the part in the Painted World building where you fought the Painting Guardians on the scaffolding.

Throughout the entirety of Dark Souls, it's almost entirely you encountering new enemies, combined with various environmental situations and hazards. All of it is painstakingly throughout to create a difficult but fair balance and to keep the game interesting. You just can't easily make a solid, well balanced easy mode for Dark Souls without fundamentally altering the game design before hand.

yea cos it's so hard to put on light armor and roll under the arrows....

miss quote sry just the guy at the top.

anthony87:

Oh look, more of this "You don't get it/understand" nonsense.....

You're right though, I don't understand how someone can think that adding a totally ignorable option to a game can end up ruining it but hey, that's just me.

A big part of the appeal for Dark Souls and Demon's Souls and what makes them so thrilling is that there exists the chance of failure, that you won't defeat the next boss, that you won't get to see the rest of the content. It creates a huge tension to succeed and makes every achievement that much worthwhile. Even having that option removes that, even if I never use it because there is no longer any risk of failure.

anthony87:

No, you can't make it easy but you can make it easier. Maybe that'd be enough for some people to give it a try.

remember folks. Optional.

Plenty of people already have given it a try. Both Dark Souls and Demon's Souls sold over a million copies each.

For the rest of your response, see above.

Someone else might have said this already, but Dark Souls is an exception to the "easy mode" idea.

Simply put, a normal rpg lowers enemy stats like health and damage to make a game easier. This way, these monsters become easier to defeat, and therefore, you can make an easier mode. However, Dark Souls is not a simple "wait your turn", walk until the next monster plops out RPG. It's an active RPG. No easy mode should save you from getting squished by an obvious boulder trap, or getting stunlocked by 5 taurus demons because YOU decided to take them all head-on. The point I'm trying to make here is that it doesn't matter how weak you make the enemies with an easy mode, it isn't going to stop players from accidentaly falling into death pits. Dark Souls isn't difficult because of unfair numbers, Dark Souls is difficult because you need to pay attention and find creative solutions to problems. And that is just something that can't be made easier.

There is also another reason why Dark Souls shouldn't have an easy mode. The online aspect. On Xbox live, the guy who is now number one in "the book of the guilty", a list of the top douches in Dark Souls, is a level 2 guy with the equipment of a full fledged New game+++ character, who constantly invades new players because he managed to beat Dark Souls with only leveling up a single time. Now imagine what will happen with easy mode. The starting areas will be full of people who easily played through the game using easy mode, and now abuse their high level equipment to bully new players. Not only is this not fair to those who want to play the game on normal mode and repeatedly get beaten by people who are the same level as him, but have far better equipment, but it also makes the game more difficult for those "casuals". This might even cost From Software money due to the game becoming notorious for being a "new player deathtrap". Of course you could play the game offline too, but if everyone plays offline because they're scared of getting spawncamped, Dark Souls wouldn't need an online aspect anymore, and then they would lose people who wanted to play the multiplayer, balancing out the broadening of the audience by losing audience as well!

I apologize if the wall of text might be difficult to read through, so here's a sarcastic and dishonest summary of what I just said: Easy game bad! Bah, me no like! Casuals different, me no like casuals.

Peithelo:

anthony87:

OPTIONAL

................

Sorry, it's just that so many people seem to be ignore the usage of the word optional that I figured I'd make it big and blue, maybe draw some attention to it.

Yes, you have gained my attention. :]

An option, however optional it may be, by definition gives you an alternative to something and enables you to resort to it if you so desire. This goes against what Dark Souls is trying to achieve. The very notion of an optional option degrades the experienced value of your efforts and in the case of Dark Souls lessens the amount of tension you experience. There is nothing you can do (aside from maybe erasing our memories) to avoid this from happening if the option is consciously known to be there. It's just how the concept of tension and our minds work.

Yeah I get what you mean but wouldn't that be an issue for the individual and not a problem with the game itself? I mean I know for a fact that if Dark Souls had an easier option then I wouldn't touch it because I had far too much fun with Demon's Souls but I'm hardly in a position to speak for everyone.

JustanotherGamer:
How do you create a challenge that isn't a challenge? how do you create a feeling of achievement when there is no challenge? how do you create a feeling of dread tension and despair when the player can't die easy?
Why can't you play something else and leave the game i like alone?

Indeed. I mean I love dark souls but I also love Kirby, those two games fill a different area of entertainment. I mean how absurd would it be if I demanded that Kirby have a hard mode? Or that there should be no retries? According to some that is entirely fine, for me to demand developers spend time and money to cater to my personal taste.

girzwald:
Those aren't answers to my questions. You in fact answered and addressed zero of them. While again spewing more false premises.

You continue to speak like making an easy mode would take away so much resources and so much time that not only will it do damage to dark souls 2, that it will be irreparable damage to the game and it will now be horrible because they took the eternity it would take to make a few tweaks. And you know, if they added in an easy mode, more people might buy the game meaning......OMG........more resources for dark souls 2, to make it better!

They are able to make the game the way it is precisely because they only have the one mode to consider. Go ahead, tell me that adding a fully featured flight sim mode to Halo 5 won't drain resources and distract from the design focus.

And of course its a risk that people might not buy it. Thats called life. And the developers were at least looking at the option so they at least thought in theory it would be worth it.

No they weren't. Stop spreading misinformation.

But before the idea could really even get off the ground, the idea was shot down by the frothing nerd rage of teh hardcorez.

Tell me again how it's us who are the offensive, insulting, elitist douche bags who have to boss everyone around.

And if anything is going to make people not want to buy dark souls, its the dark souls community. I've seen more polite and less egotistical people in a game of league of legends.

I'd bet hard money you were a complete ass to Dark Souls fans and now you're blaming them for not getting off on the wrong foot. It's confirmation bias. You're a dick to us and then you act like we're the ones who are insulting and unreasonable even though it's overwhelmingly the opposite.

Your prejudice against us is blinding you to the realities of the situation.

don't forget to lobby for all chocolate to taste like vanilla i like vanilla but i don't like chocolate. All you chocolate lovers out there are evil elitist asshats.

girzwald:
And if anything is going to make people not want to buy dark souls, its the dark souls community. I've seen more polite and less egotistical people in a game of league of legends.

That is provably untrue if you look at this thread. Not once have I seen anyone in the "no easy mode" camp screaming in all caps or insulting anyone, but I can find plenty of it from your side.

If this is how people are gonna present themselves when asking for our game to be easier, why do we want them in our community?

Dark Souls players have been the most polite, respectful group of players I have ever seen on Xbox live. If there is any hostility coming from us I have to conclude you are just projecting it onto us.

Jim every day next week? Next week just became my favorite week of this month!

JustanotherGamer:
don't forget to lobby for all chocolate to taste like vanilla i like vanilla but i don't like chocolate. All you chocolate lovers out there are evil elitist asshats.

I know right? How dare they exclude people that don't have a taste for chocolate, we won't stop till all chocolate tastes like vanilla, and if you disagree you are elitist.

Rooster Cogburn:
[quote="girzwald" post="6.395777.16097808"]They are able to make the game the way it is precisely because they only have the one mode to consider. Go ahead, tell me that adding a fully featured flight sim mode to Halo 5 won't drain resources and distract from the design focus.

That's a false equivalency and you know it.

Tweaking a few things here and there in an optional mode that's there to allow people who are not skilled enough to beat Normal to enjoy the game is NOT the same as adding a totally different gameplay time with new models, controls, graphics and engine to a game that's of a different genre.

anthony87:

Peithelo:

anthony87:

OPTIONAL

................

Sorry, it's just that so many people seem to be ignore the usage of the word optional that I figured I'd make it big and blue, maybe draw some attention to it.

Yes, you have gained my attention. :]

An option, however optional it may be, by definition gives you an alternative to something and enables you to resort to it if you so desire. This goes against what Dark Souls is trying to achieve. The very notion of an optional option degrades the experienced value of your efforts and in the case of Dark Souls lessens the amount of tension you experience. There is nothing you can do (aside from maybe erasing our memories) to avoid this from happening if the option is consciously known to be there. It's just how the concept of tension and our minds work.

Yeah I get what you mean but wouldn't that be an issue for the individual and not a problem with the game itself? I mean I know for a fact that if Dark Souls had an easier option then I wouldn't touch it because I had far too much fun with Demon's Souls but I'm hardly in a position to speak for everyone.

You don't understand what he is saying. The very fact that there IS NO OPTION to make Gaping Dragon easier is what makes him so scary. Whether or not I would actually choose it is beside the point. The man running at me with a knife isn't quite as scary when I know I have a concealed fire-arm, even if I ultimately CHOSE to duke it out (which is totally what I would do). Thank you for addressing this argument.

It seems overwhelmingly true that people assume we don't want there to be easy mode to exclude the casuals. That is close-minded because it is preventing them from truly listening when we try to inform them of other possibilities.

You didn't play the game, yet you negatively criticize the fan-base who did.

Well, in that case.....

I'll just leave this here.

Besides that, it was a good topic. Too bad you gave bad examples.

BioRex:

So should we make a easier version of chess because I'm really bad at it? Should those those sim games add platforming because I don't find its main mechanic engaging? Should Starcraft auto-create my units since I don't know what I should build when? Should soccer fields be shorter since I can't run worth a damn? Should tetris include markers telling you where to put the blocks because my planning ahead skills suck? Should large novels come with a cliff-notes version because I lack patience? I could do this all day, why is it so absurd that if one wants to take part and enjoy something they learn the basic skills needed to understand that thing? It would be rather rude of me to go to some people playing magic and demand we play by my house rules just because I owned a deck.

I will completely blow your post away with two words.

Why not?

To all of it. If someone wants to play that way and can find others that want to play that way, then they should be able to. And yes, you WOULD be rather rude to go to someone people playing magic and demanded that THEY play YOUR way. Except people who say an easy mode should be available for dark souls aren't saying you should play THEIR way, you are saying they have to play YOUR way.

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