Movie Defense Force: Alien 3

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I'm liking this show, but I think the intro goes on way too long. I know you can skip it, but I think 45 seconds is too long regardless.

I'm happy for the new series. I'm even happier that Jim decided to defend my favorite Alien movie.

Thank God for Jim.

I still like the first film best. I like the stark lack of sci-fi conventions its has and the seemly random nature of who survives. I found Aliens to be too much of a pop-corn movie, too much cowboy and too little thought. I can appreciate what Aliens 3 does, but I still enjoy the creep some what straight-played 'killer on a train' story...just because the killer is a bug doesn't take away from the classic story trope of being trapped on a moving vehicle that has a killer on it with you. JMO Thank Jim, a nice new show.

Waitwaitwaitwait... we get Jim Sterling multiple times a week now? Good god, I don't know if the world is ready for that.

Seriously though, I think more than a few valid points were raised. I never understood the hate Alien 3 got. Yeah, Newt and the marine guy getting killed off screen was kind of disappointing, but overall it was a much better movie than people gave it credit for, and really did tie up a nice little trilogy with the others by going back to the series' roots one last time. It was about Ripley and the alien, Ahab and the whale, and the inevitably hopeless struggle against a force of nature. And that is how a movie series like this should go out :)

It really is a great thing that they've let the series retire since then. I am so glad they didn't screw everything up by making a bunch of half-assed sequels and prequels that really only mess with up established canon and basically throw the main themes of the series out the window. I mean, geez, that'd be about as bad as if they went and made another Terminator movie after the second one.

sideshow:

StBishop:

It's a shame that some of the points in this had been covered in the past on Podtoid.

show of hands, who here on the escapist knows of Podtoid?

(if not, fix that!)

I do. Fantastic podcast.

Good show Jim, I'm looking forward to seeing the others :)

I have to appreciate how Jim doesn't bother with introductions and just hits the ground running with this.
Good job.

I get the feeling I'll like this show quite a bit, great first episode at any rate.

So I gotta admit, Aliens will always be my absolute favorite from this series of movies. Although over the years I've slowly come to like 3 for what it is, it is a decent film but I will never love it after it slaughtered Hicks and the team behind the project basically told Michael Beihn to go fuck himself. I get that Hicks isn't an extremely well-developed character but he is so perfect at what he is, someone who is in way over his head but manages to hold it together.

The simply fact that people are coming up with insane conspiracy theories involving how it was a clone in the cryo-pod and he'll appear alive in the new game is proof enough that killing him was a questionable, if not a moronic choice, even if it made sense to an overall theme. If he really does come back in the game, does that invalidate Jim's argument? Randy Pitchford has actually said that the game would make Alien 3 a better movie, so what happens if you already like it?

I for one would welcome the return of Hicks...
image
After all, it is about time somebody woke this guy up.

You have sparked my interest sir, count me in.
although the show need a bit of a shorter intro in my opinion.

Mr. Sterling is pretty much 100% correct.

I don't think Alien3 is better than it's predecessors, but apart from that, it's hard to disagree with him.

Kudos, I really enjoyed this video.

Thank you Jim!

I honestly thought I was in a minority here. Aliens 3 was first movie of the franchise I saw, so i guess you could say that the previous movies didn't color my view of it.

Could you maybe shorten the intro though?

Alien 3 IS my favorite right after the first movie :) I just enjoyed the grimy characters in desperation and the whole extremely unforgiving prison the movie takes place in, made me wonder about the UNIVERSE it all happens, what would happen to inmates in such a condition, how they came closer to living as a sole community once there was no easy way to "get out". Ok, maybe I love this movie for all the wrong reasons, but still...
Plus, I remember when it was first released (I was a young kind, but I had seen both Alien movies already), there was all this criticism not toward the movie, but at Sigourney Weaver because she had "shaved her hair for for real for the movie", as if that was a capital crime lol.

Thank Jim for more Jim!

While it's not my personal favorite of the series, I've never been one to bash Alien 3, and quite frankly never got why so many seemed to hate it.

You presented some solid arguments, and this series is looking quite promising. Looking forward to the next episode... I absolutely hated every aspect of Freddy Vs Jason, so it shall be interesting to see what you have to say about that one.

One thing I strongly disagreed with though, Newt wasn't remotely annoying. Don't diss the Newt! >:(

I love the Alien films. All of them. I've posted about my love for this series a multitude of times on the Escapist. Hell, I just bought a second copy of the "Alien Anthology" box set on Blu-Ray so that I could get the spiffy Japanese collector's edition bonuses.

I don't think I'd call Alien 3 the best of the five (including Prometheus). It's still a good movie, but I don't think it's the best. It's a movie that had a ton of really, really good ideas for the franchise... it just didn't execute them quite as well as it could have (possibly due to the studio interference and constant re-writes - fun fact, Pitch Black was originally an Alien 3 script). I would say it's on-par with Alien and Aliens, but certainly not better. It excels where Alien and Aliens didn't, but it falters in pretty much every place where Alien and Aliens excelled.

Also, I think the argument that Alien 3 is the best because of how frequently its aesthetic is reused is kinda weak, seeing as how the aesthetic (and even overall stories) from Alien and Aliens are also constantly reused in both film and gaming. Adding in that particular bullet point kinda made it feel like you were grasping for anything to back your point.

It has Tywin Lannister and Obadiah Hakeswill, how could you dislike Alien 3?

Well spoken as always, Jim.

While I don't personalyl feel that Alien 3 is the best of the series, or even second best, I still have to marvel at people who singlemindedly hate it.

Alien Resurrection on the other hand...

IronMit:

sideshow:

StBishop:

It's a shame that some of the points in this had been covered in the past on Podtoid.

show of hands, who here on the escapist knows of Podtoid?

(if not, fix that!)

googling podtoid to figure out what it is.... in 3 ...2 .... 1

They gave hitman absolution 8.5 ........... our tastes don't align.

1) Podtoid is Destructoid's podcast. They do not do reviews on it.

2) When your tastes don't align, that's not enough to write off an entire site. That just makes you petty.

3) dicks

Good show. More please.

I really liked Alien 3 when I first saw it at the movies. I don't know where I would rate it compared to the others because they are all so different and all have something to offer, but I know that I didn't have this great dislike of the film like others seem to have.
I must say though that up to now I think it's the Alien I've re-watched the least out of all of them.

btw. I highly recommend people watch the "making-of" of all the Alien movies if you haven't. Really interesting.

covered some good points but i still dislike this movie. to me its just boring and a cash grab and i still dint care about the characters.
i only got my self alien, aliens and resurrection. i skipped part 3 from this franchise and i really dont miss it at all. the best alien movie, is still part 2. thats unbeatable from all 4 of them.

btw. the intro is too long.

I like this show and I'm actually EXCITED to disagree with him. All my friends have ragged on Alien 3 to the point I refused to watch it. This makes me want to see it now. Plus, some of his points might just change my mind on certain movies.

Alien 3 is the absolute, worst movie ever made. I hate it, and I don't care who likes it. It started terrible, and just got worse. I didn't find newt annoying at all. Bill Paxton was annoying, but he was supposed to be. Aliens is one of the best movies ever made. Alien 3 reminds me of The Road, another movie that is just dull and hopeless. The good guys are supposed to win in the end. When the good guy dies for no reason, there is no point to the movie for me.

I like where this show is going. It's been years since I've seen Alien 3, but I didn't remember it being a bad movie at all. It was pretty good and it ended Ripley's story effectively, at least until Resurrection came along and decided "NOPE!"

So judging from the intro, I guess Freddy vs. Jason and Hellraiser 3 are next? That should be interesting.

I know it's not, but the opening wasn't supposed to be a bit of a joke towards Moviebob was it?

Anyways, good video and interesting series. I haven't seen the Alien series (not a fan or horror), but it was still interesting to watch you defend it. Might be worth warning people these will likely have spoilers. Even if I doubt anyone would care.

Are you going to be doing any really bad movies though? Like Birdemic, The Room, or the Twilight series?

I think this was a pretty well thought-out argument, except for one thing:

Jim's assertion that the Xenomorphs always win.

Simply put, they don't. They may kill a lot of people, but in the end, the Xenomorph threat is always wiped out by the end of the film. The first one got spaced, the Queen got a Power Loader shoved down both throats and then spaced. The Runner was killed then Ripley killed herself to kill the last chestburster. The Hybrid got spaced (again!). The ones in the AVP movies get nuked. The Xenos in the Capcom Beat-Em-Up got a battleship dropped on their heads. The outside possibility that one of them may have survived (the best outcome they ever get in the movies and most games) can only be considered a win if you look at in the Orkish sense ("we kin always come back fer anuvver go!").

I'm really pleased with this. I finally have something decent to watch on Thursdays on The Escapist, and it's about time.

I really love the deep analysis at work here. Very well-done and perfectly paced. As someone who hasn't actually seen the movie in question, it was still a fascinating watch. Naturally, the show's premise makes me very excited for future weeks and to discover what new movie will be explored, and perhaps what I'll learn as a result.

The comments I've seen about the background music being slightly high are ones I share as well, and thankfully that's a really easy fix: Turn the background music up to max.

Excellent work Jim! Can't wait to see what next week will bring!

I used to like Alien 3 the best when I was younger. Mainly because it introduced the whole DNA inheritance and what that could mean to the xenomorphs. But it is the worst film of the series.

Because anything after Alein 3 doesn't exist. No AVP, certainly no Resurrection and Promethias is still on trial.

The first is the best, it's probably the best example of suspense driven horror in the sci-fi genre. And the second still has classic status. The third just had a nifty idea to change up the aliens a little.

At the risk of saying something somebody else already said in this thread?
My defense for Alien 3 is... that it's not Alien 4.
Alien 3 is the proper ending to the story. It may not be perfect, but it's alright, especially in comparison. Ripley's dead and took the queen embryo with her.

I like this new series, especially because it's Jimgod himself.

I never thought of Alien 3 as a "bad movie" perse, but it's definitely not my favorite one of the bunch, but I still appreciated it for being more emotional and kinda returning the series to it's roots, with defenseless humans in an "alien" futuristic complex, trapped inside with an "alien" organism that tries to rip their faces off.

In fact, I never thought of Newt's death as an unnecessary ploy for the movie, even when I was a child when I watched it for the first time, I completely understood that Newt dying wasn't unnecessary considering the circumstances (and the excuse that the Alien spider/hand kept Ripley alive, wich is kinda plausible if you think about it).

In the end though, it could definitely be worse... it's not Alien Resurrection...

Great start, definitely looking forward to see more of this.

FizzyIzze:
[quote="BrotherRool" post="6.397550.16232612"]

See, that's the major reason I dislike it.

The rest of the points you made sit just fin with me. I infact really like the surprise of

I really wasn't expecting it to happen, and it was a ballsy move.

The rest of the film however. Boring, makes little sense, fucks up canon, lingers far too long in 'rule of cool' territory and has disappointing creature design. The predator alien hybrid could have been interesting. Instead, it was poorly thought through and fucked up the movie.

I thought that was good; I was worried that just because it's Jim we were going to get the same character as the Jimquisition but instead we got Jim's smarts without all of the pretentiousness which I think is good for this show. Interesting and intelligently put together, the only thing I didn't like was the theme song which sounds absolutely awful.

While I actually agreed with most of the things you said, two things still makes this movie worse for me. 3D graphics that makes you wanna vomit and because of that horror done so badly that its not horror anymore. Also I dislike a prison like environment because I prefer aliens beating top of the line soldiers and facilities than some defenseless prisoners but that's more a personal preference. So for all these reasons Aliens is still the best for me ;) Followed by alien 4 which is a dumb movie but at-least it has what I look for in an alien movie.

Chapper:

Strazdas:

also wtf is podtoid.

It's the podcast Jim hosts over at Destructoid.com. If you like Jim, I'm sure you'll find the podcast entertaining.

As for the show, I like it. Background music was a bit too loud at certain points, but that's a nitpick, I suppose. Think I'll have to watch Alien 3 again now.

i see. i visited detructoid twice to learn mroe about who Jim is, but both times i didnt really like the subject (nothing wrong with the site, im just not interested in this "vita games marathon" thing they had. so i didnt go as far as noticing podtoid.

I never had a problem with Alien 3. I didn't find Newt particularly annoying, but I don't see what use her character could have in any sequel - if she were to survive her role would be getting captured repeatedly for a Ripley rescue. So it is probably for the best the movies killed the old cast.

That said, it's flaws are there.

I always thought the worst was Alien 4, when they bring Ripley back to life on board the military science ship. At this point I bring myself to think of all the Resident Evil movies (god awful thigns they are) and this as the point they spawned from.

Abandon4093:

FizzyIzze:
[quote="BrotherRool" post="6.397550.16232612"]

See, that's the major reason I dislike it.

The rest of the points you made sit just fin with me. I infact really like the surprise of

I really wasn't expecting it to happen, and it was a ballsy move.

The rest of the film however. Boring, makes little sense, fucks up canon, lingers far too long in 'rule of cool' territory and has disappointing creature design. The predator alien hybrid could have been interesting. Instead, it was poorly thought through and fucked up the movie.

Thus, we end up with my own horrifying confession: I actually didn't hate Aliens Versus Predator Requiem. That movie broke a lot of rules that really shouldn't be broken and, while I don't approve of the gore, they really did broach the issue of what you could show in a movie--and didn't shy away from it. Somebody had to do it eventually, it's just too bad they did it with the Alien franchise. In retrospect, the lighting was too dark and the gore was really distracting, so I have to agree with you (and like 99% of people who saw it). AvP Requiem was quite a terrible waste of time. But damn, it was groundbreaking in a bad way.

I guess I'll rewatch it, because none of those points ring a bell, but I'm willing to give it a shot.
All I remember is that I was bored with it and that it felt like a forced conclusion.
I don't remember how they got to the prison planet, but in my mind it makes no sense for them to crash there, since it's a 1 in a billion situation. Seems way too unlikely.

As for the best, I doubt it. Even as an example for new thoughts, it's still held back by a lot of bad production work and poor pacing.

In my opinion, the first movie was the best, because it was relatable. Normal people dealing with an unusual situation. A dick company that forces you to go beyond your job description. People working in unison and comming up with good ideas and people working against the group for their own agendas.

The second movie was the most entertaining one, because it was cool as hell. Not very intelligent or enlightening, but damn good entertainment with proper pacing and good scares/intense moments.

Like I said, I'll go and rewatch it this weekend and if I change my mind, I'm glad to have new insight. I just doubt that'll happen and more likely think it was less actual shit than just average, burdened by hype and expectations.

FizzyIzze:

Abandon4093:

FizzyIzze:
[quote="BrotherRool" post="6.397550.16232612"]

See, that's the major reason I dislike it.

The rest of the points you made sit just fin with me. I infact really like the surprise of

I really wasn't expecting it to happen, and it was a ballsy move.

The rest of the film however. Boring, makes little sense, fucks up canon, lingers far too long in 'rule of cool' territory and has disappointing creature design. The predator alien hybrid could have been interesting. Instead, it was poorly thought through and fucked up the movie.

Thus, we end up with my own horrifying confession: I actually didn't hate Aliens Versus Predator Requiem. That movie broke a lot of rules that really shouldn't be broken and, while I don't approve of the gore, they really did broach the issue of what you could show in a movie--and didn't shy away from it. Somebody had to do it eventually, it's just too bad they did it with the Alien franchise. In retrospect, the lighting was too dark and the gore was really distracting, so I have to agree with you (and like 99% of people who saw it). AvP Requiem was quite a terrible waste of time. But damn, it was groundbreaking in a bad way.

I honestly don't see it as being anywhere near as groundbreaking as you seem to think.

In terms of balls to the wall killing factor, it doesn't even come close. The only thing I'll give it is that it killed people I didn't expect it to. Other than that, there really wasn't anything special about it. At all.

There's been higher body counts in other films, there's been more intense gore in other films, there's been more creative ways to kill people in other films. Heck, there's been more unexpected people killed in other films. And that's the only thing the shite had going for it.

If you think that movie was gore in bad taste, I suggest you don't look up the 'Feast' trilogy.

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