On Gaymers and Cons Pages PREV 1 . . . 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 . . . 23 NEXT | |
It's been explained in the thread already. The con is probably not going to be anything out of the ordinary, straight people are allowed in, the only difference from a regular con is probably going to be a greater emphasis on LGBT issues/depictions in games and so on. Though really, that's not the point. The point isn't that LGBT people want to go do something that they can't do on regular cons. They want a safe, comfortable space where they can talk about games and do anything else you do on a regular con, only without having to deal with (and I quote myself) "stares, ostracism, rude language, snide remarks, straight privilege, ignorant remarks and all other kinds of perfectly legal but still incredibly uncomfortable bad attitudes." That's it, it's nothing mystifying. | |
I think what this is really saying to the world is: 1.Gays are so different that they want to have their own con. You should view them as different from you. 2.If you shout insults at Gays then they'll run away and segregate themselves for you. SO if you are a bigot, just keep doing what you're doing, because it's working. Seriously, shouldn't gay gamers be flocking to normal conventions en masse to show that they're ordinary people and that they should be able to go to a con and not be heckled? Are they heckled? I've never seen it if they are, at least never specifically. If they're just complaining about the whole "Thats so gay" turn of phrase then well...I hope they can segregate themselves from society as a whole because that's pretty common regardless of intent. But really, blacks and women didn't get their rights and place in society by immediately running away and segregating themselves. They got it by getting up in everyone's faces and yelling "We're here, we're people, and we deserve your respect." Honestly if you're a gamer you're probably a nerdy or weird person and should probably already be used to being insulted or teased. Grow a thicker skin and just blow off the assholes as the assholes they are. | |
Is Critical Miss really ever *off* of the soapbox? I have no really strong opinions one way or another. If they want to have their own convention, that's fine with me. | |
You realize that you can go to a convention without strictly being part of the target audience, right? You don't have to be a furry to go to a furry convention, for example. If your complaint is that straight people generally wouldn't go to a gay themed con, then... so? The entire reason for a con is to focus on a group of people with a similar interest, they're not obligated to cater to yours. Go if you're interested, don't go if you're not. As for gay people making a big deal out of their orientation, they don't. It's STRAIGHT people who make a big deal out of homosexuality, and it's particularly bad among gamers. Let's not forget that one of the main insults over voice chat is to call someone a "fag", and I don't care if they actually mean homosexuals by that. All that means is homophobia is so ingrained into gamer culture that people do it without realizing it, practically as a cultural thing. Gay pride is nothing more than the gay community pushing back against this sort of thing, they have to in order to change the status quo. When a bully pushes you around in school, you need to start pushing back or it will just get worse. If there was no discrimination, there would be no gay movement. | |
1.What cons are you going to where this happens? Honestly, there are guys walking around dressed up as sailor fucking moon and you're the one they're laughing at? 2.How do they know you're gay? I'm asking this because it's not like you have a great big "G" pinned to your shirt. How does it come up? I would think It would only come up in conversation and I don't see why you would be starting that conversation with anyone you don't know anymore then I would be talking about sex with anyone I don't know. 3.Why not just ignore them? Seriously, you're attempting to deal with a systemic problem of ignorance and bigotry by running away from it? Isn't that exactly what they want? I got bullied in school, I'm an atheist in the middle of a god fearing red state and I realize that being in a place full of people who think you should burn in hell for eternity is annoying but you do one of two things: You either ignore them because they're idiots or you vent some bile in their face and let them know that you're not going to go away just because they don't like you. | |
Can someone define "Kyriarchy" clearly? I went on wikipedia to look it up, but I didn't really understand. It was like reading jetpack instructions written in Japanese. I've gotten it somewhat from the context of other people's posts, but not completely. Also, to tack back on to topic, gay conventions like these aren't about sexuality, they're about feeling "normal" for a change. Everywhere you go nearly everyone is straight, and even when it's not being talked about, if you're gay, there's always that lingering feeling that you aren't entirely a part of the group, unless the groups you run with are really odd already. At gay oriented conventions, you get to be normal for a change. | |
To answer 1 and 2, the event was Kickstarted and got significant enough interest to be funded. Which is one reason why it was Kickstarted. Finally, to answer your final question - gaming communities tend to be homophobic. Period. You can see evidence online. This is a convention for a sexual minority to celebrate their hobby unharassed because - well - gaming communities tend to be homophobic. And it's not like straight people can't go either. | |
Within feminist theory Kyriarchy as a term was created as an alternative to Patriarchy as a way of describing the systems that bestow and remove privilege from people based on their traits. While Patriarchy theory blames men for these systems, Kyriarchy theory recognises that the systems are multitudinous and effect everyone based not only on sex but also gender, race, socio-economic status, religion or lack thereof, sexuality, political affiliation, etc. Basically, People looked at the old theory which said "We live in an unjust society because men oppress women (and sometimes other men)" and saw it to be an incorrect depiction of the state of affairs so they replaced it with a more nuanced "We live in an unjust society because everyone oppresses everyone else in different and subtle ways." | |
Thanks. That is a very depressing theory. | |
1. Never been to a con, they don't do them where I live. But for what I've heard by other LGBT people, they all have their anecdotes. I'd ask other people to chime in, since all the stuff I could bring up aren't things I've experienced myself. 2. Uh, PDA? It's a thing that happens between normal young couples. They hold hands, they stand close together, they might even kiss. All those things are clear signs of being at least bi, if not gay. Also transexuals. They don't always pass perfectly, particularly when they're in costumes. Also gossip. You go with someone who knows you're gay, who feels obligated to spread that for one reason or the other. Also some LGBT people fall squarely into the trite old stereotypes you see on TV and you can safely assume that yup, that butch woman really is a lesbian and that effeminate guy really is gay. It's a hotly debated topic within the LGBT community, but it happens. Also, people can out themselves by making comments that have nothing to do with sex, such as speaking of their boyfriends, getting caught staring at a booth babe/promotional poster, or saying "Nathan Drake looked pretty cute in the last game." There are many, many different ways people can find out you're LGBT. You don't need the T-shirt. 3. People aren't machines of endless endurance. When you get constantly bombarded from all angles and you have to be tense and on guard, watching what you say and how others react all the time, or else risk facing social ridicule or outright violence, it can get pretty devastating over time. Like the weather that erodes a cliff, eventually you just crumble. There's a reason constant bullying has led to gay teens committing suicide, it's not an overdramatic overreaction, it's something that grinds at you most of the day, every single day. So yeah, it might not be the best idea, but A) That's for the LGBT crowd to decide, and B) I can't blame them for wanting to have one instance of a safe environment where they can find temporary shelter from the constant weather erosion that is society.
The origin of kyriarchy comes from feminism, who started using the term 'patriarchy' to talk about how society has historically placed power on men and oppressed women. As issues of race, sexuality, class and the like began to rise in prominence, the feminists coined the term kyriarchy to define the system that connects all forms of society oppression. Kyriarchy is like the patriarchy in the sense that it's an institutionalised form of oppression, only instead of oppressing only women, the kyriarchy oppresses women, people of colour, LGBT people, the disabled, the lower classes and so on. Kyriarchy means "rule of the master", though a better definition would be, perhaps, "rule of dominance". The kyriarchy is a stroke of evil genius, if you think about it, because it not only keeps a large portion of the populace oppressed (much like in times of peasantry vs. aristocracy), but it also ensures that the oppressed keep oppressing each other, so that there isn't a single enemy they can unite against. Under the kyriarchy, a straight black man oppresses a gay white man, who oppresses a straight white woman, who oppresses a straight black woman, who oppresses a straight white man of lower class, who oppresses the straight black man from the beginning. It's an interlocking network of oppression who keeps us all fighting each other and preserving the status quo that only benefits a very small percentage of the population (the age-old aristocracy under another name). | |
Yes! Questioning why there needs to be a homosexual centered gaming convention, rather then just cracking down on homophobia at a regular convention is EXACTLY the same as decades of systematic, brutal religious suppression. Also, seeing as there has been a rather large push in the LGBT community for mixed-gender facilities and that it has never been an issue of female-only bathrooms, one has to wonder just how knowledgeable the writer was of this strip of current LGBT efforts. | |
1. Homophobia is deeply ingrained in gaming culture; take one look at the online communities and you'll see all kinds of usage of "gay", "queer", "f*g", etc. Its not really the possibility of being directly confronted (though that certainly could happen), but rather the casual homophobia that takes place within the community that attends these conventions. 2. My sexuality, or other gaymers, could come up in a number of ways, for example I could take my boyfriend to a con and someone could ask if I'm here with anyone. A Vvery common question that would reveal one's sexuality. One could be wearing a pride bracelet, or have a bumper sticker, etc. However, one doesn't have to have been identified as a member of the LGBTQ community to start feeling uncomfortable. 3. I don't see the creation of a con like this to be running away. Gaymers will still attends your average cons, but we'll also have one that has more of a focus towards our demographic and culture. It's nice to have a convention in which you don't have to worry about being confronted by homophobes, or deal with slurs being thrown around. As far as ignoring it goes, for some it's harder than others. I can ignore what people say, but still words like F*ggot bring back memories of me being attacked, and I'd rather not have to worry about memories of broken bones coming up while I'm trying to enjoy some video games. | |
I don't know how to make this clearer: the cause is want. When I say want I mean a desire, a longing, a craving or a wish for some non-necessity. Something a person would like to have. Some group of people felt sufficiently enough that this want wasn't fulfilled by a standard gaming con thus the want remains to the point that they are now willing to pay to make an alternative better-able to cater that want exist and then attend to satisfy that want. Those said persons felt that a gay-friendly gaming con would fulfill that want. If you're asking for the cause behind the want itself then track down someone attending Gaymer X and ask them why they want to go to such a con. | |
We don't really get any gaming cons in my country, we're too small. But this would be what I would do. Ask someone who goes to the con. I'm trying to get my head around the term "Gaymer", same as I have trouble understanding "Girl Gamer" as we are all just gamers. Why the need for separate titles? I do however understand the existence of the convention itself, and I'm not gay, but think it's a great idea and I would gladly go to it with friends if we had one over here, just to see another view on things as I like to try expand my views on things. | |
If you want to understand the cause of offsetting terminology then look to the source term. The stereotype that spawned the term "gamer" was a heterosexual male who engaged in this activity while generally living in their parent's basement being an unwashed troglodyte loner. When people thought of gamers, they thought of this: While the latter portion of that stereotype has faded there is still a tendency to think of gamers as heterosexual males by default. Hence the spawning of differential terms like girl gamer, gaymer and girl gaymer. | |
Why can't we all go to the same gaming conventions? It's just reinforcing stereotypes for the sake of fighting the exact same stereotype. It's like that Day of Silence thing... Where a bunch of losers would infuriate all the teachers by not talking... and then everyone would just up the gay jokes hardcore when they probably wouldn't have even thought about making any gay jokes that day if no one brought it up... Yeah... I don't feel left out like some people are saying, I just don't see why we can't all get together for this stuff. I would welcome a bunch of gay dudes to a convention with open arms... Sure, there would be the occasion annoying stereotypical flamer guy, but the normal ones would smell SO much better than the average con goer. I think we should take the obnoxious, forced activist gays and the fat straight slobs who don't use deodorant and "let" them have their own con(s?). Then we can all game as one. | |
Again, WHY do they want it... WHAT is this "want"? Why is a gay-friendly gaming con required? Are regular gaming cons NOT gay friendly? Are they anti-gay? There is an entire convention going on, I shouldn't have to ask someone AT the convention itself. I haven't attended a gaming convention so I honestly do not know what potential anti-homosexual shenanigans are got up to there. What particular itch does a normal gaming convention not scratch? | |
You don't know because you don't experience it. Instead of saying "Well *I* don't see what the problem is, so let's stop this nonsense", you might want to try listening to the people who experience the actual problems.
Those 'annoying flamer guys' and those 'obnoxious forced activist gays' could be pretty damn tired of this attitude and wish to go somewhere where they don't have to take this kind of crap. Just venturing a guess. | |
I'm not sure I buy that, sorry. That may be how it used to be seen, but games are everywhere and the term gamer is simply one who plays games, usually of the video game variety. that's why I don't understand the need to add another label to it just because of ones sexuality or gender, most who I see do it tend to be in your face about that fact, which I just don't get. I see everyone as on the same standing gaming wise, no matter what someone is, or what they play or what system they use. You don't see Athletes doing this when it comes to sexuality. In fact there's nothing else that comes to mind (to me) in this regard, but that may be the 10 hour shift at work numbing my brain a bit. | |
The gaming industry still assumes its default demographic are straight white males. I explain it here. It's not unique to gaming, it pervades most of the entertainment industry, but it's very much a fact. | |
I did read that, and I get where people are coming from to a degree, and yes there is an unfortunately large percentage of the industry that thinks their audience only consists of average white hetero males. But I'm talking the players, the people who enjoy playing the games, not the creators. The terms that I am talking about are the players, I agree with everything about equality and giving them their own space to be comfortable in as well as being able to join in as an ally (I like the term they chose for that :D) and the con having a name that more or less tells you what it is about makes sense, but why make a term for gay gamers? When they are just gamers, I just have trouble understanding it is all. I'm not seeking to annoy or enrage anyone, I'm just confused on this part. | |
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa...we have a convention now? | |
Because language is shared. Players share the language with the industry, and having different meanings for the same word gets very confusing. People instinctively agree on the same meaning for vague words precisely to avoid confusion (most of the time, at least), so by necessity, the word 'gamer' gets shared between the players and the industry. The industry thinks 'gamer' means straight white male who likes to game. Most of the people who identify themselves as gamer are straight white males who like to game. So the industry caters to them and the straight white males who like to game band together and establish their subculture. Women and LGBT people (and perhaps people of colour as well) see that and think "that's not who I am, that's not who they refer to when they say 'gamer', that's not a term that welcomes me on equal standing or caters to my difference in gender, sexuality or race". So why use the same terms when it doesn't apply in anything but the shallowest, most superficial way? | |
Thank you, that makes so much sense to me now. I appreciate you having the patience to explain that to me, I think I understand why now :D | |
My position changed from "why do gay people want their own convention" to "its f*****g" sad that gay people need one" Being treated like dirt by homophobic trash at other existing conventions just isn't right, I can see why they want one with an environment that's a lot less hostile and bigoted. | |
No problem, you were polite, it was the least I could do. Touching on gamer subculture reminded me of that bit a while back about the female player who got harassed so badly at a tournament that she had to quit, and when the press asked about it, the bystanders (or was it the referee?) said that "it was a normal part of gamer culture". Then we have the Anita Sarkeesian debacle, the use of gay and f*g as common expletives, and that one guy who complained in the BioWare forums about Anders hitting on him when he had selected every single "flirty" dialogue choice with him. Or the people who complained about gay romance being included at all, claiming it would detract resources from other areas of the game, or turn every character into a dull sexually-adaptative unrealistic character, and so on. With all those instances (and many more that go unmentioned) can you really blame women and LGBT people for wanting to distance themselves from those people? | |
Okok so this may be a mite shallow, but I go to these types of events for the same reason others go to certain clubs, to meet somebody. I'm gay and def not a big partier or "ready to pick somebody up at a bar" type of guy. So going to a gaming convention, which I can feel comfortable around with, knowing full well lots of the attendees will be gay is kinda nice. Oh yah, not having to deal with casual homophobic brats is also a plus. | |
Not feel discriminated against, I suppose? These aren't gay-exclusive cons, they're gay focused, much how like a regular gaming con will likely be straight-focused (those booth babes are probably not for lesbians). It's so they have a guaranteed safe place to go and chill and talk without, like, being called a faggot 'r whatever. And people who aren't gay can show up and chill, too. It's not about excluding people. It's about being ultra-inclusive! :D ...dismissing any kind of gay agenda, anyway. >_> <_< | |
Well didn't you waste a lot of my typing in a reply with this elucidative post. | |
However, how soon until some gay hate group (looking at you WBC) notices there's a nice big congregation of the evil homosexuals gathering at a rather public event? Part of me hopes they do because of the potential fallout such an event could have. Then we'll be able to see if video games REALLY make people violent? | |
Yeah you can go with them... God forbid a gay guy is annoying!! When a straight guy is annoying and in your shit it's cool to rip on him for being a bro, but when a gay guy is annoying and in your shit you have to pretend you like it... Anyone who plays games is a gamer... this segregation bullshit is juvenile and I don't like how it seems to be leaking into my favorite hobby. Hopefully you all get over yourselves soon and we can go back to playing video games instead of arguing about a made-up, trite play on words to define the homosexuals that play video games. GET OVER YOURSELVES. | |
The fact that this is a videogame convention. | |
Oh, sorry, I hate it when that happens. Feel free to chime in, though, I don't want to monopolise the conversation.
No. If I rip on a straight guy, there's a very real possibility (depending on where I am located geographically) that he's gonna get his straight bros and beat me up. And then the police is going to look the other way because I started it and the f*g just got what he deserved. There's an actual legal defence called "gay panic" which excuses assailants (almost always straight men) for inflicting violence on LGBT people because the victim "made untoward advances" or somehow made the attack justifiable by virtue of being LGBT.
Let me put it this way: you don't get to decide if a word is suitable for the LGBT community or not. That's the business of the LGBT community. You may have the idealistic desire to see us all united, but that doesn't mean squat when you're not part of the LGBT community. | |
If I had to guess what is the want, I would say the want might be for an environment where they can express their love of gaming without any lingering social expectancy to inhibit expressions of their sexuality. People forget how invasive sexuality is to the other aspects of life because people tend to ignore just how it fills in the cracks. In the middle of an online game with verbal chat, a spouse/lover calls out with an intimate term. Some level of affection that shows when parting with a beloved: a hug, a kiss or a fond squeezing of hands. A single act that becomes so routine it would be done without considering how appropriate it is for the surroundings. The comfort and concern one shows to their beloved when threatened, sick or injured. I'm not even describing things exclusive to any one sexuality, these expressions of affection are pretty universal to all forms of sexuality.
Do adjectives bother you? Or are you so bland you can think of one word that properly describes everything there is to know about you? What's juvenile is that STILL it has to be explained that this is not segregation because people are still screaming that it is with no reason. Over and over again, as it has been done over the past ten pages.
I was going to go a different route and point out how if what he was saying was true then I should be able to Google image search the term 'gamer' and get an wide variety of different people gaming rather than the disproportionate amount of white men that Google actually returns. | |
| Pages PREV 1 . . . 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 . . . 23 NEXT | |
Why is it that every time wants to create something aimed at a minority everyone has to flip their shit over how "segregating" it is, and when we try to include minorities in media everyone is like "But I don't want it being about the minority's issues!"
The reason we have Black Entertainment Television (and channels of the like) is because people flip their shit when a movie talks about a character's background and discrimination.
The reason the Gaymercon exists, is because people tend to flip out over discussing homosexuality and gaming.
Everything else is already aimed at straight white males. That's why women in skimpy clothing are common, and that's why nearly every main character is a straight white male. Let the minorities have a thing that's aimed at them. It won't affect you in anyway whatsoever.