On Gaymers and Cons Pages PREV 1 . . . 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 . . . 23 NEXT | |
By applying it in circumstances that are very different? He was drawing(pun!) comparisons... I don't care if there is a gay-orientated gaming convention, but the cartoon doesn't strike me as being at all clever. | |
Not sure what your intent for that post was since you're really making a terrible case for yourself when you say you're not judgey then randomly insult people with different theatrical tastes than you. | |
It's not like I'm against gay conventions, but I always thought the purpose of a gaming convention is to play, see and talk about games. I understand how an all-male group might differ slightly in the tone and atmosphere from one having both males and females, and so in turn could things change with an all-gay group, but I honestly don't think it applies to gaming conventions. Since, you know, gaming is (should be) sexuality-neutral. But then again I never went to any of these. They might as well be glorified pick-up bars for all I know, in which case it'd make a bit more sense. Also, the comic is unfunny because of terrible analogies. | |
Simple exercise for straight people who don't understand the appeal of Gaymercon: go there. Take note of how you feel in an environment specifically geared toward people whose sexuality is different from your own. You may notice you feel a bit uncomfortable because you're in the minority, even though (hopefully) nobody's being overtly or intentionally hostile to you. That's how gay people feel at "normal" cons. Is it any wonder they want a place where they can hang out with fellow gamers without that niggling discomfort prodding at the back of their mind? | |
My complaint isn't that straight people wouldn't go to a gay themed con. My complaint is about the ultimate effect of having such a con in the first place. Straight people aren't creating Gaymer Con. Gay gamers are. That's making a big deal out of your sexual orientation alone. I couldn't care less about what orientation you are. I just find it puzzling that such an intimate aspect of your life is justification for an entire subculture within various other subcultures. Your final point is basically what I was saying: that if they're using this as an attempt to "push back" against discrimination, as a matter of awareness or w/e, then I suppose it's a good thing. But, if in doing so you create an atmosphere where other people can think of you as some sort of clique or one off social movement that is out for it's own selfish gains, than it can also be a problem. What do homosexuals desire more, to be allowed to keep to themselves, or to be accepted as equals by the rest of the world? I think most people would probably say both, but lean towards the latter. And if the latter is what you desire, the growing trend of homosexual-orientated events could be more problematic. It becomes something that's "cool", like a punk rock genre, or hipsters, rather than promoting any practical social movement. And just like how many people bash hipsters, or the proverbial "geek girl", etc. because it has become its own subculture that alienates others, people can and will bash gay people because they're more interested in being seen as gay than as individuals. Now you can say this won't happen or that this is wrong. That's fine. I'm not saying that this IS the case. I'm saying it's a concern. It's also legitimately quizzical to me. Because it's a sexual orientation. A sexual orientation. It has something to do with SEX. It has soemthing to do with who you're ATTRACTED to. People don't have "Gamer's who like only Brunettes" or "Gamer's who are attracted to fat chix" conventions. But that goes into a whole other anthropological analysis of "Why are gay's treated as another subculture, even among themselves?" and whether that's ultimately a good or bad thing. And that is beyond the scope of this discussion. Suffice it to say that I think MOST people who hear something about a "gay gamer convention" or anything specifically designed for gay people have the reasoning behind their reaction as I do. | |
That is a sandwich they serve at Denny's its grilled cheese with Mozzarella stick inserted between the slices. Just because you are combining two things you like doesn't make the new thing better. It probably won't provide a better experience than enjoying those thing separately. Everyone in favor of this idea will take the easy way out like the author of the comic and say, "That's because you're just lactose intolerant." | |
Actually, I'm offering my opinion as a human being. If this con is about getting out and meeting other gay people in the context of a gaming convention, that's awesome. Conventions in general, for just about anything, tend to be hookup central anyway, and gay people have it harder with that by virtue of only making up 10% of the population. That wasn't a "gays are promiscuous" stereotype, it was a "people (period) hook up at conventions" truth. The problem I have with this convention, is that's not what it's being framed as. It's being framed as this awesome step for gay rights, when it's really not. If anything, if that's the goal, it's a step back, not forward. Calling white privilege doesn't make my opinion on /that/ any less valid. For cryin' out loud, my parents (and therefore I) were heavily involved with the ACLU while I was growing up, and would be today if my mother and I weren't too busy completing our degrees (my Bachelors, her Law degree) to be involved. So not only have I lived activism, I've been formally trained on a lot of good ways to do it. Gone to Washington to lobby and everything. Plus, my degree is in social science ed -- I've studied a lot of this from an academic perspective, too. But I'm straight, so obviously my opinion doesn't count. Gotcha. Edit: Hell, "Problem" is too strong of a word. I started out playing devil's advocate and pointing out that certain people who were defending it in the name of tolerance were being themselves intolerant. Then internet arguments being the polarizing cesspits they are, I wound up getting more and more personally invested in something that really, I don't give two craps about. It's a convention for gays, cool. That's not what really bothers me. What bothers me is people saying "well you're white, straight, and male, so even though you're a gamer who is involved enough in the hobby to be posting on a forum dedicated to it, and are therefore probably a huge nerd (which means you were also probably a social outcast growing up) you're straight, and therefore you know nothing about being a social outcast." Don't just call white privilege and be done with it if you want things to change. When you're talking to people with that privilege, try putting it into terms they can understand. Like, say, reminding a nerd of middle or high school bullying. They just might get it. | |
Nonsense. Acceptance tends to increase as a direct consequence of greater cultural exposure - and nothing gives greater exposure than a highly publicized, public event. That's why when black people used to hold marches and protests, the result was a greater acceptance of black people. It didn't result in folks shaking their heads and going "why are blacks segregating themselves with 'black marches'?" Besides, gay conventions (or for that matter, black protests) don't segregate. Heterosexuals are free to go to these events too. In fact it would be nice if people did, but heterosexuals tend to avoid going, for fear of being the odd one out, or feeling vulnerable (ironically what minorities tend to have to deal with on a regular basis). | |
Are you gay and forever uncomfortable? How much does a gay game convention differ from the more established conventions? And in what ways? I obviously can't provide evidence for this, but as long as the convention is still focused on games, and not gay fan art and fan fiction(which I know it's not) then I think I would be plenty comfortable. At least as comfortable as someone who generally doesn't like crowds can be. I've said before that I'm not bothered by any of this. I'm genuinly curious about how different it would be. | |
I know a lot of people will ask why does the LGBT community need a gaming con, why do people need cons in the first place? Its so people with like minded interest can get together and share conversations and ideas without being frowned upon. Sure in a perfect world we wouldn't need this but it isn't perfect. So I'm fine with "Gaymers" however lame that title is to have their own con if it promotes positivity why not | |
I never found cons to be that bad at all. Comic con was a very friendly place, probably friendlier than most big gatherings of people. (I'm looking at you baseball) | |
Against my better judgement I'm going to jump in and second this post. I've had gay friends in the past, and gay roommates as well. I was constantly in an environment where people's sexuality was different from my own. It didn't make me feel uncomfortable. The reason why I never felt uncomfortable is because the environments I was always in were never explicitly aimed at a sexuality. Now I've never been to one, but from what I understand a gaming convention isn't exactly a place where a sexuality of any kind is a driving force behind the meet-up or the content there. It's a convention about gaming... If the gay, lesbian, and bisexual community want to have their own convention, then fine, but to me it seems like interjecting a specific sexual orientation into a convention about something completely unrelated muddles up the point of the convention in the first place, gay or straight. If you care about games, and you want to go to a gaming convention, why does the majority of the people's sexuality matter? That's why I think this entire comic is sort of a nonissue. I'd also like to say that I've only seen a couple of these comics, but if these guys never get off their soapbox, then I won't be looking into any more of them. The smug tone of it all just turns me off. | |
All I got from that is whitey teenies want to keep the homos down and that they are as culturally oppressive as the CCP and are latent rapist creepos who follow women into the bathroom. Are you serious? I have never been to a con, but I have met people who claim to go to cons, and none of them are the type of people who would shun homosexuals. Undoubtedly there are people at those cons who would, but they are likely the minority. I understand the need to have a "sanctuary", but I am not sure if any intolerance is going to come from con attendees who are socially capable enough to navigate the world outside of a basement. | |
While the motivations for wanting to go to a gaymer-con may not be clear to people. The only thing that really matters is that homosexual gamers themselves want to attend these conventions. It's not like homosexual gamers are being forced to attend a Gaymer-con over a normal gamer-con. They're going because they wan't to. And in the end what more reason do you need for it to exist, then that there is a demand for it? | |
I just wish we could have more appealing to LGBT audiences within regular old Gaming Conventions. I'm sure the majority of people here who don't understand the reasons for Gaymercon are in exactly the same position - just wishing the two events could seamlessly combine without having to make a 'gay section' of the fanbase. It's a shame we're not at that point yet, but I feel the reason why many people don't understand Gaymercon is that it makes the homosexual audiences in Gamescon even more invisible if some of the LGBT community is going elsewhere for their conventions. While I'm not going to pretend to understand the pressures that a homosexual, bisexual, or transsexual individual receives in such events (or in general life) I can at least say I'd much prefer a marching band of 'We're here, we're queer, get over it' through the 'regular' Gaming Conventions than seeing the same community funnelled into a different event and forgotten. | |
A gay gamer convention is not a protest, And if a protest is the goal then they would be protesting at the current cons to air the greivences not making their own. I am referencing things like political and social groups that started out as a place where minorities gathered because they felt unwelcome and became minority exclusive. There are several polictical and social groups where this HAS happened. And has done nothing for acceptence and tolerance in the group where they felt they were not welcome. | |
Oh no, I'm definitely judgmental, it's just I don't judge people on whether or not they fancy men, that doesn't really matter to me. I entirely reserve the right to hate people based on their opinions on theatre and their choice of clothes and all sorts of things. I'm basically saying that I'm not specifically homophobic, I just hate a lot of stuff that typically (or stereotypically) gay people do.
You're honestly serious. :O | |
Not to be a dick lizard, but some of them probably just want their own con so they have a better chance of getting laid. I mean, it's in (or near) a hotel, right? (Not that there's anything wrong with that, a la Seinfeld. More power to them.) | |
If that was the stated premise as to why they are making their own con, I wouldn't care less and more power to them. It is the premise that they are doing it becaue they feel alienated or made to feel uncomfortable at regular cons that alot of people have a problem with. | |
At first I thought the idea of a gay gamer con was silly, what do those have to do with each other and all that but thinking about it cons are about finding a place to fit in and I understand that it is nice to go to a place where everyone is of the same mind and that's what this is, a place where you can share a common interest and not worry about being judged for something, which does happen at least to a noticeable extent at several cons. It would be much better if there wasn't a need for Gaymercon but we aren't at the point yet. Also your post under the comment is fine but the comic itself does a terrible job of making your point, talk about a slippery slope. | |
Really? Gay pride and rights groups are not examples of 'segregation' and neither is a convention. Just because you aren't the target audience doesn't mean you're being segregated. Also, as someone who grew up openly gay, don't tell me where gay people may or may not feel out of place. I've been abused on the street for daring to walk holding hands with my girlfriend, so bigotry still exists wherever you are, and by extension, these things could also happen at gaming conventions. If you don't like the idea of Gaymercon, don't go. It's that simple. | |
And in what universe is the word "ally" used antagonistically? | |
Oh, they just want lots of gay computer nerd hook ups? Why didn't they just SAY so? But seriously the whole thing is a bit depressing, it almost feels as though regular conventions have been insulting towards homosexuals in some manner. It's as though they don't want to hang out with the straight gamers anymore. They're gonna make their own convention. With black jack. And hookers. | |
Alright, then I reserve the right to judge you for your judgey judgement, you judgemental judge you. | |
A lot of cons (like Anime Expo, Comic Con, Gamers convention, ect.) exist so those individual groups can all relate something they love in one grand event, a particular fans gathering. Imagine if you lumped something together, it wouldn't really stand out to people other then a convention, and what would you call it? To me, it makes sense for homosexuals to have their own con. I mean, our government in USA (or least those running the system in California) are against gay marriages and limit gays on their rights. Also it doesn't hurt anyone literally so it's sort of silly as to why it's banned, or the fact people don't want gays to have their own conventions. Might as well tell women they can't have their tea parties, I mean who has a right to enjoy themselves with something they have in common with another fellow human being right? :I | |
I'm not actually gay, but I was basing my comment on things my gay friends and sibling have told me. I do, however, have some similar experience; I'm no stranger to being the only atheist in a room full of Christians, for example, and it can get stressful at times, especially since I have to watch what I say because I'm not "out" to all my Christian friends. As to what would be different at a gay con, I don't know exactly, but I still say the best way to find out is to go to one and see for yourself. | |
... Wha? Since when is it forbidden to tell someone to shut their mouth and be annoying somewhere else? Or do you have to take slurs based on sexual preferences to bring that message across? | |
"luxurious ignorance particular to white teenagers" I'd go out on a limb and guess most teenagers are ignorant for the most part, regardless of their color. | |
You know, I was several times in gay bars as a straight white male. Why? Well, one of my best friends at the time was a lesbian and since she got me some action I played the wingman, complimenting random girls on clothes and stuff (not that I do that just for one of those two purposes). I got two things out of it. Well, technically three. First off: I realised how good it is to just talk to people about XYZ, even if they are complete strangers. I mean, a bar is the place you can start conversation with random strangers, I do it all the time. There I was able to approach a girl and compliment her on something I honestly found great without the need to state that I'm not doing that because I want to do it in her butthole (sorry, watched something that prevents me to say this ina different manner). Second: I felt like I was not the 'target' audience. It was a bar where LGBT go to for dates or just the random picking that straights do here in clubs and discos (not that big of a town, not many LGTB places). If I apply that to an area that actually tries to sell me stuff based on my sexual preference *cough gamescon cough* then I would have to amplify that feeling tenfold. Because while I had to deny one or two approaches to buying me a drink with the statement that I'm straight but would still appreciate a dring with 'em it were just that - one or two approaches. Not sexual pandering and boothbabes at every stand. And third: I seem to have a damn fine ass. If I would've been sexually interested I'm sure I'd gotten some 8. or 9. there. The reasoning behind that story? I'd like to visit Gaymercom but... No moneyz and means to get there. | |
As someone who's been involved with LGBT groups, I'm still a bit curious on the whole Gaymer thing. I don't know. I'm just playing devil's advocate and am genuinely curious as to how this really works. I was not aware that gamers at default cons were so discriminating.
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True, but the difference is how the attractiveness is portrayed. In the case of males, the attractiveness is simply another facet of who they are, it's part of the power fantasy for males ("play this game: feel hot and desirable!"), in the case of women, the attractiveness is highly emphasised and "put on display", so to speak, as an attempt to entice straight males. Nathan Drake might be a sexy beast, but in order to be comparable with Lara Croft, he should have been wearing something like this: And even in the case where the male lead gets to show some skin, look at the poses in the DAO trailer, they have him be an arm, shoulder and head behind Morrigan, who is displaying her cleavage to the audience. I think there's a pose where we can see the side of his torso, but that's about it. It's not meant to entice women or gay men, it's meant to convey that your avatar will be attractive (among other things). And yes, gay men do like the power fantasy, it's probably a big reason why we play videogames. The problem is that in many games, our power fantasy is annoyingly straight (not even bicurious!) and it shatters our immersion (and the point of the power fantasy) when that happens. That's just another way in which we are repeatedly told by the industry that it thinks we're invisible or not worth considering.
Listen. I will repeat myself, since it's not really coming across: I am not saying that this con is a step in the right direction for equality or inclusion. Some people might say that, but I don't. What I'm saying is that we want to decide this for ourselves. I think the point that you're missing here is that we live at the mercy of what straight people say and do. If it was up to us, gay marriage and adoption would be legalised worldwide. But it's not up to us, and that's the whole point: it's never up to us. The entire point of "this is none of your business" is to have one conversation of importance where straight people don't tell us what to do, if this is a right step for equality or not, and what we should think and feel about the subject. You may have the best intentions and qualifications, but the most respectful thing to do is to let us have what little power we can scrounge up, and let us decide for ourselves. EDIT: I should apologise. I know this doesn't sound fair at all, but it's a matter of having at least one conversation of importance without straight people butting in just because they feel they should have an opinion on the matter. I know it sucks to be dismissed or ignored, but it's not a personal thing. This is, in a way, similar to the reason for having the con. It''s about having a space where straight people aren't the norm (after all, look at this thread: a lot of straight people are getting down on us because they feel excluded when they wouldn't give a rat's ass if WE felt excluded at regular cons) and don't dictate what to do or what to think. It's not that you can't understand or that you don't know what you're talking about. It's that we're damn tired of straight people butting in and telling us what is and is not best for us. | |
I don't really agree. I'm straight; I've gone to a gay bar with a gay friend. I got hit on by less guys than at a regular rave. I wasn't uncomfortable at all, I just said I that I was straight and I was just out for a night with my friend. They understood and that was that. Also, in my youth, I frequented Chinatown in Toronto all the time. I actually felt pretty welcome, even though I didn't speak Mandarin or Cantonese and I'm white. Most shopkeepers seemed delighted to share their food and culture with me, I actually got some really good prices on some cool rice scroll paintings. I still have them! Certainly, it was somewhat of a culture shock. I didn't know what everything was (like those cool cubed coconuts with a straw) but I didn't feel like I was unwanted. | |
The whole reverse segregation argument rings hollow to me. On their webpage they specifically state: "Gaymer X is open to all, whether you're bisexual, transgender, gay, asexual or an ally (Read: Non-homophobic person who doesn't fit into one of the above categories) and we hope to make an experience that will be meaningful as well as educational and fascinating." [Source: http://gaymerconnect.com/info/about] It's not like they are trying to purposely exclude people. Instead, they are trying to create a comfortable, safe environment that may not be readily available to everyone. As long as they don't try to harm or exclude people on the basis on their gender, I don't see what the problem is with trying to attract a certain demographic of gamers, nerds and so forth. | |
Bloody hell, why are so many people getting so bent out of shape and missing the point of this comic? The only point is it saying the question 'Why do X need their own Y' is dumb in a lot of contexts, including this one. It's just less obvious here because of there being misconstrued homophobia in the world. In a less inflammatory context: Bearing in mind gay singles, couples, dogging groups, whatever the hell can drink at any bar they choose, do you know why there are gay bars? Okay. You have now answered the question 'why is there a gay gamer convention?' | |
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As soon as you put 'NO POOFTERS' on the door you'd give the gays an excuse to organize a loud and shameful demonstration right outside the door, not to mention legal challenges, media blitzes, and the like.
Probably better to just have security wandering through the crowds Assassin's Creed-style and removing unacceptable individuals and throwing them into the Waiting Area of Shame.