On Gaymers and Cons Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 . . . 23 NEXT | |
I think Todd in the Shadows said it best: you gay people have no idea what it's like to be excluded! Not only that, but here's the description of the con in question:
He's totally going to get discriminated against if he shows up. ...Although, they do say "ally," and I can't help but feel he might be a bit antagonistic. | |
And here is the answer: it isn't required. I have seen no mandate requiring it. This fulfills no needs. Asking why it's required or needed misses the point of wants. IE: This is something some people want to do. | |
I'm not sure I fully agree. His reasoning basically being: if you go to a gaming convention, you're there for the games; not to express your sexuality. In fact, I've found most of them to be welcoming and accepting of really weird shit, especially at anime conventions. A guy's walking around with a love pillow of what looks to be an illegally young girl, sex toys from Japan and shipman underwear? No one bats an eye. Why would someone care if you like to sex up some dudes? I personally do see it as segregation, of sorts. We don't have "gay restaurants" or "gay buses" or "gay offices". Why do we need a gaming convention for gays? For example, in my school there was a "Christian Club" for christians to gather and do, well I dunno, religious stuff I guess. There was also an "Asian Christian Club". Why was this needed? I even knew some Asians who were really upset about how the Asian students kept making "Asian" versions of all the clubs; saying it promoted segregation and was practically racist. The odd caveat being, per university policy, you could not exclude anyone from a club due to race, sexuality, etc. Yes there are gay, lesbian and bisexual clubs in universities. Yes there are bars for gay men and women. But these are for the explicit purpose of meeting people of your own sexuality, something it can be difficult to do in "normal" (and I'm sorry to word it like that) bars, due to the stigma. To me, conventions were never thought of as nightclubs. I wasn't there to pick up people, I was there to celebrate the collective hobbies and passtimes that some of us maybe take way too seriously; no matter their race or sexuality. I talked up a gay guy cosplaying as peach at fanexpo this year; he was a pretty nice guy. I didn't think it was weird at all. If the gaymercon were a celebration of gay rights, I'd be 100% on board. I might even go! I dunno, maybe this is a very American problem. I don't know how homosexuals are treated down there. Maybe I'm just ignorant. We have a Christian pasture in my family, and he gets so mad hearing about gay people being persecuted simply for their sexuality. I've heard him rant for half an hour about it before. Even my 80 year old grandparents couldn't care less about someone's sexuality. Perhaps I've been privileged to grow up in an open minded environment? | |
Lets not forget the best thing about Gaymer Con. . . Booth Bros xD Actually you'd want some eyecandy for the chicks too so I can imagine that there would be Booth Babes also, hell, they probably don't even get harassed to the point of self-loathing and murderous wrath (as I've been told is common for promo girls at hetero-male dominated events) | |
This line alone makes it worth the read for me:
He's also got a point with privilege, because a lot of people really don't know what it's like to be singled out like that. The arguments about self-segregation come from people who don't seem aware that the LGBT community gets treated like crap, period. | |
Thank you Susan. When I hear you say things like this I truly see why you're in charge because you know what you're talking about. I love the idea of GaymerCon (now GaymerX), and I'd love to go if it weren't on another continent (though I donated to the Kickstarter and got some funky stickers). It makes me sad to see people just not get it, and even get legitimately angry at the idea. It can be really scary expressing your feelings among strangers, and even people you know and love (I was so scared to tell my parents). The idea of having a fun convention mixing the two things I love most, gaming and my boyfriend, sounds pretty good to me :) | |
But if someone were to make a "straight white male con" there would be hell to pay. | |
Wouldn't the best thing be for everyone to go to one convention for everyone? It would be a place for people, not gays or straights. Are you a person? Come on in. Not a person? How the hell are you reading this? | |
Well think about it this way. Have you ever wanted a "guys night down" at the pub? Alternatively ever wanted a "Girls night out"? Not exclusively of course, not the ONLY event you attend, but as a one off in a life where you spend 99% of the time attending events for everyone. It doesnt make you sexist to gather your male friends and go watch a game of rugby down at the pub and have a chat, nor is it sexist to gather or your female friends and go have a drink down at the pub to discuss your lives and maybe also watch some rugby alternatively you could go buy some kickass suits together as a group of guys and feel suave and awesome and go buy a load of awesome dresses as a group of women and feel suave and kickass. It might be the EXACT same activity but the fact is we sometimes take a little bit of happiness from just being around people similar to us, even if its in a really shallow way. Ive had a guys night out. My girlfriend has had some girls nights out. It doesnt make us unable to interact in a mixed sex society. It doesnt make us sexist. It doesnt mean we such at making eachother feel equal and welcome. Its just a little bit of shallow comfort in something relatively unimportant. And as long as we dont become hermits living inside our own tiny circles of "same" having a tiny bit of "Same" time doesnt hurt nor is it indicative that anyone is making anyone else feel unwelcome. A bunch of guys going to down to a pub together to enjoy a rugby game is the same to me as a bunch of gaymers who enjoy games going down to a gaymer con to enjoy some games. Its just a little nice ya know? if youve ever enjoyed an event like i described thats the same feeling these people want. I think about this in the same way. And i understand totally why people seek it out. As long as no one is FORBIDDEN entry based on sexuality i dont see an issue. Some places are built to be male dominated environments so we can get a little "same" time. Some are built to be womens places or womens nights out like Hen and Stag doos. It doesnt hurt as long as it doesnt totally absorb us nor does it exclude anyone out of your life. EDIT: Its also not segregation because its not long term or an inbuilt part of any system. Its a single event. Geared to make some people who (for whatever reason rightly or wrongly) want to feel welcome and accepted among people who share something with them that they might find scary or lonely or weird. And thats nice. It isnt "Segregation" to have a dudes sleepover. Thats ridiculous. As long as you still learn to interact with a mixed society and live your life in one having a few events in one or two places made for people the same as you isnt a bad thing. | |
Maybe they want a convention to prove they aren't as niche a market as say, everyone who went to the Escapist Expo? *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge* But yeah, this isn't a subdivide. Conventions call attention to groups which gives them more power, and greater voice because companies can make money, and when companies make money everyone becomes a dollar sign to them, and when everyone becomes a dollar sign "TAH DAH" equality everywhere! Capitalism HO! But seriously if someone doesn't want to play in your tree house anymore, big whoop if they build their own since it's not like they're going to steal the wood planks from out under you. Oh no, someone doesn't want to put aside a factor of their life and just 'fit in' with a large group of people for 14+ hours a day for [what should be] a fun filled [and comfortable] week, for shame. Honestly, have none of you ever been the wallflower of a party? Have you never just wanted to be comfortable? Isn't that why you're on this website instead of trolling on your nearest forum about the "console wars?" This is the equivalent of someone telling me I don't have to factor in that I'm female on the outside because I'm 'on of the guys' on the inside (this comment brought to you by dude who will never be in the friend circle). Just because the guys I'm talking with consider me on that level doesn't mean I forget to the outside world I am a 4'10" woman who looks like the term kidnapped would be used instead of the word abducted, if such an event was to occur. I believe the original purpose of conventions wasn't for fans anyway. They were for industry professionals to meet up and discuss the current climate. I think it would be nice if major companies took notice of one of the "niche" markets so they can make characters that can't be defined by "that one gay guy/lesbian chick in __________". Or maybe we'll finally get an all-male race of eye candy just like the ASARI! Although knowing Bioware they would all have tragic and horrible backstories where they blow up a space station or something near the end of the game. (( Post filled with sarcasm and a little fan-hate: none of which to be taken seriously, unless that's your thing. If so, why do all Warcraft women eventually go crazy and start killing everyone if they're in power? That seems like some rather unfortunate implications on Blizzard's part; i.e., women in power will go megalomaniacal and wreck everything. To be honest I just want to see how many make it to the end of this post since I always feel about half of the comments aimed at these comics are always because someone couldn't be bothered to read the notes all the through to the end. ^_^ HIGH FIVES FOR EVERYONE! )) | |
Absolutely, that would be wonderful. That is, in fact, the ideal. It is not, however, what actually happens. So then the question becomes, so you want to deal with the goal or the practical reality? Both answers have merit, but you can understand why not everyone would necessarily want to "fight the power," per se, but would rather just enjoy themselves. | |
When the majority (in the EU/US) are that thing that is most of the cons, they don't have to name it like that. It's a given. Which is kind of the problem. | |
"being able to "fit in" (hoho) pretty much anywhere is one of the numerous luxuries that come with being straight" not really. I identified as straight for a very long time and didn't fit in anywhere. Please don't generalize about the supposed "benefits" majorities have. | |
It's not a given, regular cons aren't "NO GAYS" cons. | |
Would it be exclusive? GaymerX isn't. People are so quick to try and be clever about this, but the fact is the default con really is a straight white male con. The only real difference would be if they actually said "no gays, minorities, or women." And that's not really equivalent to GaymerX or similar, because they. Don't. Do. That. | |
No, but they also aren't hives of tolerance and inclusiveness either. | |
Differentiating people of different sexualities in such a way that would even indirectly encourage them to remain seperated from one another merely increases the disconnect between every side of this societal issue. Doing so would further indicate that there is in fact a relevant societal disconnect betweem people of different sexualities, but it would do absolutely nothing to remedy the situtation directly, I think. There is of course a chance it could raise awareness of such issues, but I feel that such issues should be discussed more openly. The term "Gaymer" itself is outright absurd. It seems to suggest that being homosexual and enjoying video games are the defining aspects of your characters. They most definitely are not and letting other people think they are is counterproductive. What people actually need to do is to stop thinking of things like sexuality and gender as the singular defining factors of one's character. There absolutely should be no need to specifically distinquish between things like sexuality when the subject has nothing to do with them. While no one is excluded an unnecessary distinction (in relation to a particular public event) between people is still being made and the segregation of these people is indirectly encouraged or at least implied. It is quite worrying that such measures are even concidered necessary to guarantee relative comfort in public events. Personally I would rather attempt to endure all of the uncomfortable looks and even harassment if it gave me the opportunity to spread awareness instead of avoiding all opposition altogether. Making everyone feel comfortable is naturally what we should strive to achieve, but I simply do not believe that the creation of a limited and seperated enviroment for any specific people in the minority is the right way to approach this problem in the long-term. | |
You do realise straight people are allowed to go to Gaymer cons right? Its just the issues discussed and atmosphere are made to make people feel comfortable at home if they are seeking a little time to feel like part of a majority. Sure its shallow but we all do that sometimes and it isnt discriminatory if its just a one off event and no one is FORBIDDEN from attending. And it makes people happy obviously since people go. I cant begrudge them that. | |
And yet, in failing to actually deal with harassment, there's only a difference in terms of semantics. | |
I got quoted by Susan Arendt? Best January EVER. | |
I'm not sure it's shallow. Comfort and safety are pretty big deals to humanity. | |
True. If we keep this up, homosexuals might feel unwelcome and unwanted. Good thing that doesn't happen when gays try to fit in with the majority. | |
To be honest im not sure either. It feels like a bit of a shallow thing since being Gay isnt a character defining quality, nor for that matter is being male or most other things. But that doesnt label it as bad. Or something no one should do. Its just something some people want/need from time to time and thats perfectly ok. In a perfect society we would feel comfortable just sharing humanity with eachother but lets admit it, we are less than perfect and desire a little same time. Thats perfectly alright. We should accept people are less than perfect Utopian totally accepting loving individuals and be ok with that. Sure we can try and we should try to make society nice and welcoming. But going aside once in a while aint a bad thing to enjoy a little bit of arbitrary sameness. The act itself is shallow perhaps, but the effect like you described is real and important which is why it cant hurt to let people have that even if they way they do it might not be the most rational thing in the entire world. It doesnt hurt anyone at least. Is anyone REALLY hurt by not feeling welcome at Gaymer con? We are allowed to go. Does a single living soul feel real pain by not having Gaymer con geared to them? Gaymer con helps people feel happy in themselves. And until someone shows me it REALLY REALLY hurts people by excluding them im not going to assign it any harm. | |
Nathan Drake can get it, he IS a stud. I think that not allowing these people to have their own Con reeks of more apartheid than the Con itself would. It's probably not even about being able to hook up, just about playing by their rules for a change. Like, we might not see some of the (hopefully unconsious)discrimination that happens on a regular con, but they do and by setting up their own convention they can prevent that from happening. I guess? Basically, I don't see what all the fuss is about, it's not like they'll check your sexual orientation at the door. Everyone is free to organise their own party, if some gay people feel the need to do this, let them. | |
They wouldn't need a doorman turning people away. The name says it all. Only this type of person is welcome here. The rest aren't! Maybe I am naive but to me gaming is for everyone regardless of sex, race or sexual orientation because of none of that matters. And to me making a con for a single sex or sexual orientation instead of being all inclusive is the opposite of the spirit of gaming. But hey I also don't think "fake gamer girls" or "casual" gamers are the work of the devil so what do I know? | |
You might also want to re-read. The post was (clearly) aimed at a small, but annoying, group of people who hide behind feigned ignorance rather than state their opinions outright. You just claimed you don't belong to that group. Thus, I didn't call you a dick. As for your first question. The comic and the accompanying blurb are not part of the forums and are not subject to the same rules. How does that feel? Fucking great. | |
My take on the matter, as an LGBT person, is this: "You don't see the need for something like this? Well, I don't see the need for you to open your mouth and spew whatever crosses your brain on a subject that is absolutely irrelevant to you. But you did, so them's the breaks." Let me put it like this: being part of the LGBT minority is no pleasure cruise. You experience everything from actual violence to verbal violence to workplace discrimination to unfair laws to casual homophobia/biphobia/transphobia to snide remarks to ignorant bullshit to really subtle things that dishearten you and kill a little of your spirit every day. And not because life is hard, no, all this is extra because we're LGBT. We get the exact same crap everyone else gets from life, and then an extra sidedish of more crap because we're just that special. So we want to set up a whatever (doesn't matter what it is) and the general response is "Why are you doing this? I don't understand and frankly, I don't want to understand. I just want you to go back to being invisible." If you're genuinely curious about what LBGT people have to face every day, educate yourself, ask away, whatever. But don't try to play the victim with your 'genuine curiosity' when the implicit message is "I don't like what I'm seeing". Because we can tell. We can always tell. | |
Actually. I'd like to put paid to the whole "sexuality has nothing to do with games!" line right now. Want to know why that's bullshit and why homosexuals might not be comfortable at regular cons? Do a google search for "booth babes." | |
"Disingenuous dick lizards" is an amazing turn of phrase, btw. | |
In practice, all that really bothers me about gay events like these are the feeling that they're probably cooler than the not-specifically-gay events and that I don't feel ambiguously sexual enough to try to join the festivities. I'm still not sure which bathroom we're supposed to be in in the last panel (with regard to the lady with the 'pipe' between her legs). Transsexuals only? That does seem to be getting a bit rarefied. | |
I dont really know why the point even matters. I dont feel disenfranchised or uncomfortable in society. Nor do my female friends. And yet we still have the very occasional "Guys/Girls night out/in" because feeling like youre among people who are the same is a small but enjoyable comfort we indulge every so often that makes us feel secure in a small way. It doesnt exclude anyone on purpose. We dont "Forbid" female friends from attending the same location or event. Its just a night about doing the things we want to do in a group of people like ourselves, and the next day we spend time with everyone again like we do everyday and accept everyone like we always do. If you have EVER invited all your male friends over for an all nighter playing games you know this feeling and you honestly cant complain. Im a straight white teenager and i have this indulgence, why the fuck can i deny it to a group that probably has this craving so much worse than i do? And lets be fucking honest its VERY dishonest to claim this is any type of "Segregation" because no one is forming a gay only hermit community that NEVER interacts with regular society. This is, at WORST, a load of people saying "I spend 99% of my time in a mixed society where i dont always get to behave the way i want to, where i dont always feel like those around me allow to me to really be me, i wanna have that for a single event so yeah Gaymer con. After wards i might go to Game con". I dont believe these things, like all male/female sleep overs, drive a stake through the compatibility of the sexes or the sexualities. Its a one time vent. Not a "GAYS ONLY SOCIETY!". Just because someone wants to feel safe and secure about something, especially about being gay which they might feel uncomfortable and alone about, that doesnt mean regular conventions have failed anymore than people enjoying a Stag Night means regular parties have failed. It just seeks to make them feel happy. And i cant deny a person that. I struggle to think of someone REALLY REALLY, like to the depths of their heart HURT and WOUNDED that they, although perfectly able and welcome to attend Gaymer Con, have to live in the same world as an event designed to make a group they are not part of feel welcome. I mean fucking wow does anyone REALLY feel like this? | |
Eh it bothers me in the sense that I feel like such a thing shouldn't be that big of a deal cause it really isn't. People fuck whatever, and gender is a state of mind and all that. I will call bullshit on it's a place for people to "Network and talk about Gay-issues" no. Bullcrap. It's a place to play video games, and hook up for sex later. Same thing as a normal con. How does one "Network" anyway? I should try that some time. "Hey sexy lady, what we push our facebook accounts together and network honey. Awww yeahhhh"
What if they're gay women? ...Or are you implying is the booth babes that are threatening to drag those of the Rainbow Armada out into the street and yelling at them to bite the curb? OR OR OR, are Booth Babes like the dogs in Terminator movies, they can sniff the gays out?!?! Nah that argument is bullshit grey. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable around a guy in a speedo thats advertising a game. Only a person uncomfortable with their own sexuality would. And while I'm at it, are we ever going back to the narrative? | |
So what you are saying.... is that we should totally also have straight cons as well, just for us straight people! | |
you already do. | |
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I'm going to post this (though it's already been posted before) because people don't seem to be reading it. It addresses a lot of the issues for sure, and is probably the only time I can tolerate the person who wrote it.
http://www.destructoid.com/the-importance-of-a-gay-gamer-convention-232467.phtml