Jimquisition: Desensitized to Violence

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While I didn't like the suicide part I see why Jimothy Sterling used it. He wanted to show the point that real violence was different then video game violence by showing the difference not in a verbal way thats been argued a hundred times over. But in a visual way an effective way. I for one would defend the way in which it is. Why ? Simple for once the news ( to whom shows real violence all the time ) is being shown that the community at large does in fact despise real violence. I for one wouldn't be surprised if members of the site wanted this to be taken down for said reason. In that light we can't be the one's " glorifying " violence it would be C.N.N , Fox news , and other " news " outlets onto which show real violence as the " glorifiers " of violence. Besides here is one question I'd like answered by the media. Which news outlet released the killers face first video game sites or traditional news outlets ?

The thing that bugs me is that most of us at the escapist already agree with the point of view that Jim is showing. The ones who need convincing frequent other outlets of information.

First, congratulations Jim, for another great video. Hope it reaches those who need to see this argument.

While you were mentioning how mass media exploits actual violence, I remembered the incident where the picture of a man about to be run over by the NY subway ended on the cover of a newspaper. Classy, real classy.

Sterling,

Gotta say, I loved this video. Its about time somebody in or close to the industry took a decent stand against the media. The violent bit didn't really phase me in the slightest, but that's cause I've seen worse (unfortunately) but I believe it was necessary to the video to show it, to prove the point that they are very different things.

If the media wants to point the finger at games, then it basically has to point it at Movies, Music, TV, Internet and even Books. The amount of fake violence we encounter from day to day life is ridiculous, but to focus on just one area of it is even more so.

wolfyrik:

Spearmaster:
We can apply Jim's logic about violence in video games to everything in video games right? Sexism in games is ok because its not really like "real" sexism, same with racism, not really "real" so its ok right? I doesn't affect people the same way right? Or are we splitting hairs?

Don't get me wrong I'm not condemning any video games for anything they contain, they are a free art form, you cant blame them for murders, those are done out of a persons free will. I did like the use of the video clip, had nothing to do with video game violence, hell was not even violent but +10 for shock and awe , maybe some people need to see real death to have more respect for it because if video games had real violence in them a lot of people couldn't handle them.

P.S.- Blaming video games makes about as much logical sense as blaming guns right?

Not really. Violence in video games is a none-crime. They're easy to identify fakeness and no victim. Violence in Video games doesn't encourage people to go out and shoot someone, nor does it glorify such a suggestion.

Sexism in video games, can be horrendously sexist depending on the context. In such as Duke Nukem 3D, the sexist element is in keeping with the Duke image. It's a spoof of muscle-bound action hero stero-types and the sexism is part of that spoofing. Duke Nukem 3D in my opinion was far better at sending the message that sexism is for assholes than, say, Sucker Punch.
In contrast to that though is the explosion of (especially in MMORPG) of stereotyped women. The females in these games have universally worryingly thin waists, supporting massive Breasts, wearing heavy armour which is basically non-existant, often taking the form of little more than a skimpy metal bikini. Usualy drawn into loading screens with in highly questionable poses.It's the lack of variety and common occurence which make this sexist. Women in such games are objectified and reduced to this one form, while men typically have a much greater variety of body shapes to choose from. Including over-weight in many games. Women are not given the same choices. They can be small, thin with big boobs, medium height, thin with big boobs or tall, thin with big boobs.
All women are victimised by the impression that this prevelence sends.

"Not really. Violence in video games is a none-crime. They're easy to identify fakeness and no victim. Violence in Video games doesn't encourage people to go out and shoot someone, nor does it glorify such a suggestion."

Cant most of these points be made for sexism in games also? Easy to identify fakeness? Is this a double standard? Also how do violent video games not glorify violence when they give you rewards for it? Sexism in games does not give a reward for committing sexism, well perhaps some Japanese games do.

The points you made tell what sexism is in games but I still don't see how Jim's argument for violence in video games cant be applied to sexism in video games, its not real and people can tell the difference, what if his video was on sexism instead and instead of the suicide clip he showed a XXX rated hardcore pornographic clip of a submissive woman in a maids outfit pleasuring a man, just to show how sexism in games is fake and how people can tell the difference so it doesn't really affect them. Just like violence.

I don't like sexism in games, I was just using it for a parallel to show the weakness in both arguments.

I am a regular follower of the escapist for several years now. I even recommend it to a lot of other people, since part of my work and art deals with the critical examination of 'games'.

Now I finally signed up and made an account, just to be able to comment on this video.

So Jim, you just earned the "Made someone overcome his 'I-do-not-want-to-register-here!'-attitude" achievement.

Thank you for your effort, to show the video as you did. The way you dealt with this really delicate matter was very responsible, with the age-check and all. I was really surprised, when the window showed up, and I was shocked, when I saw the footage. I haven't seen it before, it deeply shocked me...

...and it was the best, straight to the face approach to the whole 'violent games make violent kids'-discussion in society and media.

What I especially like, is that you not only put the finger on the sex&violence promoting strategies of the mass media, but you also reflect a very important fact about the various members of the modern gaming-culture: they are responsible!

Since the early 80's young people with an affinity to hightech and computers were put in the geek-clichee. Over the last 30 years the 'gamer-clichee' split from that and... but I am changing subject here.

Back to 'they are responsible': By giving feedback about the gamers reaction and the discussions with the escapist management you showed, that gamers are very well aware of what they consume and to what extend. It also showed, that the gaming community is willing to speak up and discuss a disturbing issue like this, which shows civil-courage and social engagement. Funny, considering the fact, that most mass-media presents gamers as isolated, more or less dysfunctional screen-addicts.

This very mature approach on violence, the constructive reactions from the viewers, gamers and escapists also helps our beloved medium, the game, to become a more mature, critic and responsible medium. A piece of art.

I am thankful, I had the Jimquisition here :)

So long
Shendril

That clip was too tough for me to watch. I had to look away. Ughhhh... Valid points as always. Thank god for you, Jim.

I agree completely with you on the sandy hook shooting, I understand people want to know about this traumatic event but the way the killer was given 24 hour news coverage was appalling. The news studios need to flip these events, if they're going to cover them. focus on the victims, on what they're going through and let the killer be forgotten, punished and forgotten.

hmmm odd i didn't get to big of a reaction from the video, either i have seen it before and can't remember or have become desensitized, although i do not believe it is on account of gaming but rather from my previous work as firefighter if anything. traffic accidents and building collapses have given me insight into injuries just as "messy" as the suicide... the most disturbing thing has to be dead children, now that is nightmarish on a whole other level.

You know, I think that you can find gamers feel uncomfortable with violence in video games too. I know for a fact that I felt like shit with Spec Ops: The Line, and all of my friends who I got to play with, who all play "violent video games" on a pretty regular basis, said that it was fucked up.

If presented well, violence in video games, even though it will never be as realistic and be a little cartoony in comparison to real life, can still make you feel bad.

I really thought jim was gonna bust out the giant dildo again, and escapist made him put up a warning.

I've seen the footage before via encyclopedia dramatic. Yes having been there i'm less of a person. I apologize.
That being said it still made me cringe.

we all have rageful thoughts but it's a whole nother to stare real death in the face. I don't have anything to add jim,

but hay if you wanna blast fox news God bless and keep you ^^.

"Any sane civilian is going to be terrified of guns".

Well fuck you, Jim. Thanks for calling me insane, along with most of my family.

i did not watch the Budd Dwyer suicide part. i have seen it before and have no desire to ever see it again.
i agree and a video. nothing said in the video is new to me. so i got nothing to contribution beyond a more in-dept video on the subject of video game violence, the recent shooting, and the media

'Any sane civilian is gonna be terrified of guns"
I disagree, as an avid hunter and legal owner of firearms, which in my country entails mental health checks and a licensing regime, Id say that most fear of firearms is borne of ignorance and the mysticism/glorification of firearms in the media, be they video games or movies.

Once you understand how they work, respect the inherent hazards, and use them responsibly, the mysticism and fear is gone.
You realise they are a tool and that you need to be more worried about the person holding them than blaming the the tool itself.
As with any tool, there are accidents, and there are criminal misuses.
Media has tried so hard to instill into the public a scary image of firearms, anyone who has used one knows its mostly fabrication and demonising.

Im amazed more people arent afraid of knives, if COD teaches gamers anything, its that a man can run through your hail of bullets and stab you in the throat if hes close enough..
Of course, the difference is pretty much everyone has wielded a knife, and understand what it is, how its dangerous, its limitations etc., and thats its more about being wary of the person holding it.

Totally agree with the difference between video game gore and real-life violence, ones fun, over-the-top, and disposable, the other is gruesome, smelly and permanent.

Jim, I don't understand why time is still wasted on talking to people who are dead convinced that violent games create Mr. Hydes. Haven't we as a community been down this road before? Heck, my parents still believe that anime is only for kids - my point being that maybe it's better for us gamers to sink back into obscurity.

Great show nevertheless, but I won't be watching it again. Now excuse me while I get some comfort food and hope to attain your glorious size.

Wesley Brannock:
While I didn't like the suicide part I see why Jimothy Sterling used it. He wanted to show the point that real violence was different then video game violence by showing the difference not in a verbal way thats been argued a hundred times over. But in a visual way an effective way. I for one would defend the way in which it is. Why ? Simple for once the news ( to whom shows real violence all the time ) is being shown that the community at large does in fact despise real violence. I for one wouldn't be surprised if members of the site wanted this to be taken down for said reason. In that light we can't be the one's " glorifying " violence it would be C.N.N , Fox news , and other " news " outlets onto which show real violence as the " glorifiers " of violence. Besides here is one question I'd like answered by the media. Which news outlet released the killers face first video game sites or traditional news outlets ?

Guh.

My girlfriend pointed me towards the video (And the thread) based on the logic that she would get to see some wonderful, wonderful rage on my part. She does so love my rants.

Gonna jump over your first arguments and strait to your assumptions that in comparison to games, it is the News media that glorifies violence. If informing people of a situation is the glorification of a situation, then I glorify racism. I am currently glorifying in the mire of Sociology (As I am being informed of a situation). The authors who write books glorify the subject matter of the book, regardless of what the book is about. I glorify the act of rape because a poem I once wrote got into a book about dealing with rape. Huh. Your logic is broken.

See, that is all I am picking apart here. Yes, the news media shows "Real" violence whilst gamers dont have to deal with real violence. Yet one is to inform (And entertain, to a degree, depends on the news outlet) and the other is to purely entertain. I don't watch the news (Or read it, as is more common with me) because I love seeing the corpses of young Syrian men. I watch it because I wish to remain informed as to the hell these people are going through.

Finally, the question you wish to ask the media:
Of course it was the fucking news media that released his face first. Gaming websites do not cover that kind of story, gaming websites do not have the resources to cover that kind of story. You might as well say "I want to know which media showed fight scenes from Soul Calibur" and use that as proof that gaming media is more violent then the reverse.

This argument is not as simple as Jim would like to argue. But I wont drag myself into the mire of this thread.

Just pick apart a single post, point out the mistakes in the logic and the central argument, and then step out.

.....Wow. That was incredible!

The point he made was good, sure. And I fully agree but the thing that captured my attention the most was that...

THAT WAS THE MOST SATISFYING 'FUCK OFF' I'VE EVER HEARD!

Jim: "Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff-uck off!"

And it was executed with such style. The ramp up actually whistled for a moment before hitting the crescendo.

Love you Jim.

Also, completely agree. It's just one of many reasons why games can't be blamed for violence. But of course we're all wrong and the NRA is completely right in that Americans should have armed guards at their school and easier access to guns. Why? Because 'the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun'.

NRA, in the words of the only man on Earth that matters: "Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff-uck off".

Mr F.:

Wesley Brannock:
While I didn't like the suicide part I see why Jimothy Sterling used it. He wanted to show the point that real violence was different then video game violence by showing the difference not in a verbal way thats been argued a hundred times over. But in a visual way an effective way. I for one would defend the way in which it is. Why ? Simple for once the news ( to whom shows real violence all the time ) is being shown that the community at large does in fact despise real violence. I for one wouldn't be surprised if members of the site wanted this to be taken down for said reason. In that light we can't be the one's " glorifying " violence it would be C.N.N , Fox news , and other " news " outlets onto which show real violence as the " glorifiers " of violence. Besides here is one question I'd like answered by the media. Which news outlet released the killers face first video game sites or traditional news outlets ?

Guh.

My girlfriend pointed me towards the video (And the thread) based on the logic that she would get to see some wonderful, wonderful rage on my part. She does so love my rants.

Gonna jump over your first arguments and strait to your assumptions that in comparison to games, it is the News media that glorifies violence. If informing people of a situation is the glorification of a situation, then I glorify racism. I am currently glorifying in the mire of Sociology (As I am being informed of a situation). The authors who write books glorify the subject matter of the book, regardless of what the book is about. I glorify the act of rape because a poem I once wrote got into a book about dealing with rape. Huh. Your logic is broken.

See, that is all I am picking apart here. Yes, the news media shows "Real" violence whilst gamers dont have to deal with real violence. Yet one is to inform (And entertain, to a degree, depends on the news outlet) and the other is to purely entertain. I don't watch the news (Or read it, as is more common with me) because I love seeing the corpses of young Syrian men. I watch it because I wish to remain informed as to the hell these people are going through.

Finally, the question you wish to ask the media:
Of course it was the fucking news media that released his face first. Gaming websites do not cover that kind of story, gaming websites do not have the resources to cover that kind of story. You might as well say "I want to know which media showed fight scenes from Soul Calibur" and use that as proof that gaming media is more violent then the reverse.

This argument is not as simple as Jim would like to argue. But I wont drag myself into the mire of this thread.

Just pick apart a single post, point out the mistakes in the logic and the central argument, and then step out.

The point to " inform " the people has long since left the media now its about making killers famous REAL killers mind you not fictional ones. If " informing " now a days means constantly covering a story to the point of harassing the families of murder victims then yes they are " informing ". If " informing " means that your going to turn everything you don't approve of into a WITCH HUNT because something " newsworthy " happened then yes they are " informing ". If " informing " means telling people that the guns , video games , or whatever is to blame then yes they are " informing ". If " informing " means covering only one story of lives being lost all week long then yes they are " informing ". The line between " informing " and glorifying is thin. However on a almost daily basis is being stomped on , spit on by the very people to whom are SUPPOSED to uphold it. My way of confirming this is the FACT in less then ten minutes they managed to politicize it. They politicized it by pointing a finger at everyone but the killer. I can't take the view point of a " news " company seriously when they cover a school shooting and follow it by saying. " This is responsible for the mass killing is ( enter preference ) instead of the shooter ". That person who shot up the school was to blame for the incident yet they will instead blame whatever scapegoat they can find. While people will call it " informing " when instead it simply a format for demonizing that to which had no part in any wrong doing. Tell me did a video game pull the trigger or a PERSON. Did the gun pull its own trigger or did that require a PERSON. Did the entire society kill those kids or did one PERSON do it. All I blame the media for is turning the killer into a star of sorts. People that do horrible things should be forgotten in time while the teachers that used their own bodies to shield the children from a rain of bullets should be remember for their bravery. Yet most people can only remember the name and face of the shooter. Why ? Simple the " news " wanted to " inform " people. ( This is the one and only response I will do. )

Hrm. With your emphasis on the presentation of violence within games, are you suggesting that if violence was depicted in a 'properly realistic' manner akin to the suicide clip, it should disturb me? For me, knowing that something is fictional is the critical distinction - context, not so much how it looks.

Thank God for you.

And RE the above debates, the job of News Media is surely to secure readers/viewers, not necessarily to inform...

Hazzard:
Do you reckon you could edit it what the graphic content is in the description so people know what it is?

Can someone explain to me what the purpose of what happened in the content was? As in why the person did it?

i actually do wanna know why. when he pulled out the gun everyone freaked, but it looked like he was gonna try and demonstrate a point but never got around to it. i would like some context.

OT though, i actually wasn't disturbed at all on the footage. he pulled the gun, people freaked, he looked like he was trying to calm them down to explain something, they got louder, he shot himself. i had the same expression the entire time, and i didn't really feel any different before, after, or during. now i'm not gonna claim that games desensitized me to violence, that's bullshit. i'm just broken in the head naturally and i know that. in fact, i have the intelligence to hide it most of the time and never do anything about it. and just because i, in particular, wasn't disturbed, dosn't mean that nobody else was. i am not a representation of the rest of gamers, and neither is anyone else who plays games then goes out killing people. they're just a small minority of people who are already broken, but just happen to play games. i'm just smart enough not to go bat-shit insane and do something stupid like that. i enjoy living free to play my games and be my weird-ass self.

I'm kinda scared atm cause seeing that guy blow his brains out didn't effect me at all. I'm not saying movies and VG have desevtised me. But I guess seeing it on a screem instead of face to face makes it unreal to me

KiloFox:

Hazzard:
Do you reckon you could edit it what the graphic content is in the description so people know what it is?

Can someone explain to me what the purpose of what happened in the content was? As in why the person did it?

i actually do wanna know why. when he pulled out the gun everyone freaked, but it looked like he was gonna try and demonstrate a point but never got around to it. i would like some context.

OT though, i actually wasn't disturbed at all on the footage. he pulled the gun, people freaked, he looked like he was trying to calm them down to explain something, they got louder, he shot himself. i had the same expression the entire time, and i didn't really feel any different before, after, or during. now i'm not gonna claim that games desensitized me to violence, that's bullshit. i'm just broken in the head naturally and i know that. in fact, i have the intelligence to hide it most of the time and never do anything about it. and just because i, in particular, wasn't disturbed, dosn't mean that nobody else was. i am not a representation of the rest of gamers, and neither is anyone else who plays games then goes out killing people. they're just a small minority of people who are already broken, but just happen to play games. i'm just smart enough not to go bat-shit insane and do something stupid like that. i enjoy living free to play my games and be my weird-ass self.

I think I know why it's not destibing to me. I saw 2 planes run into buildings for 5 months over and over and over and saw a man jumping out a 100 story building over and over. I think Jim is right the violance in the News is fucking us up more than a VG or fiction.

I'm not going to go through the 400 and some comments on this thread, but I am going to add my 2 cents (which will probably be buried and no one will read). I'm a firefighter/paramedic. I have seen death. I've seen a child die. I've been the one to pronounce the time of death for a 10 year old girl that was violently killed. I think about her every day.

I've seen a wife run over by her husband 3 times. I've done CPR on a 3 month old. I've pulled a man out of an ice covered river. I've seen a child die from abuse. I've had to testify in court over the physical and sexual abuse of a 4 year boy that would have continued had I not reported and documented all of it. I've had to remove a suicide victim from his semi truck that shot himself twice, first in the head, and then the chest (he lived through the first shot).

I have played games as long as I can remember. I played the first Mortal Kombat when it came out, and have played tons of "violent" video games since. So I have seen real death, and also the video game stuff. I couldn't watch the video of the man killing himself. I had no interest in watching it. I have seen enough death in real life, up close and personal, and don't want to see anymore unless I have to. I don't even like to see it on shows like Law and Order, CSI, Criminal Minds, or any of the other ones.

I am currently playing Sleeping Dogs, and I just finished Saints Row The Third. Video games to not bother me, at all. Like Jim said, it is over the top fake cartoon violence. I am disgusted by these pundits who say video games cause violence. Now, do I let my small child watch me play some games? No. He doesn't need to see it, even if it is over the top, because I think my son is too young to see anything like that so far. But I am not going to keep the stuff from him forever (he is a preschooler if you are curious).

Like I said, I'm a paramedic, and I do not like to see death. Not real death, at least. I have no problem with people that have died natural deaths, and I can, for the most part, handle most stuff without a second thought. I have had people hang themselves, overdose, ect. Those don't bother me that much. I find nothing fascinating about a violent death, though. If I could stop thinking about that little girl, I would.

I have played "violent" video games for close to 20 years now. I have no problem shooting someone in the head in TF2, or crushing someone under an engine block in Sleeping Dogs. I have seen both of those things happen in real life, and there is no comparison. They are completely different. One is a cartoon, the other is the end of someones life.

I couldn't watch the coverage of the Sandy Hook shooting. I cried when I heard about it. I can not look at the pictures of the victims. I cried not just for the kids that died, but for the children that survived, and the parents of both, and the EMS, fire, and police that responded to that call. The EMS station was next door to the school. I know that would have been my last day on the job.

I hope this gives someone pause if they think that video games desensitize people to real life violence.

dfphetteplace:
I'm not going to go through the 400 and some comments on this thread, but I am going to add my 2 cents (which will probably be buried and no one will read). I'm a firefighter/paramedic. I have seen death. I've seen a child die. I've been the one to pronounce the time of death for a 10 year old girl that was violently killed. I think about her every day.

I've seen a wife run over by her husband 3 times. I've done CPR on a 3 month old. I've pulled a man out of an ice covered river. I've seen a child die from abuse. I've had to testify in court over the physical and sexual abuse of a 4 year boy that would have continued had I not reported and documented all of it. I've had to remove a suicide victim from his semi truck that shot himself twice, first in the head, and then the chest (he lived through the first shot).

I have played games as long as I can remember. I played the first Mortal Kombat when it came out, and have played tons of "violent" video games since. So I have seen real death, and also the video game stuff. I couldn't watch the video of the man killing himself. I had no interest in watching it. I have seen enough death in real life, up close and personal, and don't want to see anymore unless I have to. I don't even like to see it on shows like Law and Order, CSI, Criminal Minds, or any of the other ones.

I am currently playing Sleeping Dogs, and I just finished Saints Row The Third. Video games to not bother me, at all. Like Jim said, it is over the top fake cartoon violence. I am disgusted by these pundits who say video games cause violence. Now, do I let my small child watch me play some games? No. He doesn't need to see it, even if it is over the top, because I think my son is too young to see anything like that so far. But I am not going to keep the stuff from him forever (he is a preschooler if you are curious).

Like I said, I'm a paramedic, and I do not like to see death. Not real death, at least. I have no problem with people that have died natural deaths, and I can, for the most part, handle most stuff without a second thought. I have had people hang themselves, overdose, ect. Those don't bother me that much. I find nothing fascinating about a violent death, though. If I could stop thinking about that little girl, I would.

I have played "violent" video games for close to 20 years now. I have no problem shooting someone in the head in TF2, or crushing someone under an engine block in Sleeping Dogs. I have seen both of those things happen in real life, and there is no comparison. They are completely different. One is a cartoon, the other is the end of someones life.

I couldn't watch the coverage of the Sandy Hook shooting. I cried when I heard about it. I can not look at the pictures of the victims. I cried not just for the kids that died, but for the children that survived, and the parents of both, and the EMS, fire, and police that responded to that call. The EMS station was next door to the school. I know that would have been my last day on the job.

I hope this gives someone pause if they think that video games desensitize people to real life violence.

Not overlooked.

I basically jumped to page 12 to say the same thing. Especially the part about not being able to watch the coverage. Hell I couldn't even read the damn coverage in public. I spent nearly 5 years working in the ER of a major city and have seen my share of the results of violence, including death, which as we both know is not the worst thing that can happen to a person. Another 5 years in the mental health field (which, while somewhat related to the issue, is such a huge bag of cats that I'm not even going to go into details here). No violent media prepares you or "desensitizes" you to violence and death. Especially video games. And as you said, not even all that death and negativity in the real world truly desensitized me. If anything it made me more sensitive to it.

Great video, Jim. Excellent point made. Don't count on it getting much of a positive reaction. But then I guess you already know that isn't really possible considering the subject.

If you want a truly realistic version of anything, mod Call of Duty so that everyone shot doesn't die immediately if at all. Grenades make people's bowels tear inside their bodies and leave them screaming in agony or in shock. Shoot someone in the chest and watch them choke and drown on their own blood. Shoot someone in the leg and watch them bleed out unconscious within seconds. In the head? Skull fragment and brain out of a tiny hole, still not enough to kill them guaranteed sometimes. Rifle butting someone leaves them with broken bones and crying on the floor. Stabbing someone leaves them bleeding out and praying to whatever god they believe in as bile enters their bloodstream, guaranteeing a slow death by septisemia.

And on top of that, hook up a smell system to the game, so people can smell what someone uncontrollably shitting themselves is like, along with the irony smell of blood, decaying bodies and the smell of freshly fired gunpowder.

On top of that, show a funeral after every enemy killed where their loved ones, children, wives, grey-haired fathers, mothers, grandparents, cousins and everyone they made a good impression on weep for them.

Then pull a Johnny got his gun ending and have the player character shown only a black screen, with "Tap X to attempt to communicate with the outside world using only banging your head in morse code" written on it. And you can't turn it off.

Even that's not as bad as real violence. Sweet dreams everyone.

Like I said last time I think the news and historical videos of JFK assassination has made real death on tv less of a big deal, but I decided to do some research to get the context of the suicide meaning I look at the wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Budd_Dwyer

I've know people try and kill themselves that I would call friend one for the grace of God or random insane luck didn't succeed as well as I've know a man to kill himself for feeling he could take care of his family.

I think I would need someone shot within my presenance to be shock cause I think I distance myself and believe that the thing on TV/Internet isn't real. Of course, I have a few mental illness and have been raped twice and I'm a male. A little tmi but eeh.

I agreed with almost everything Jim said. There's just one thing I have contention with: Being able to distinguish between real violence and fake violence is not something we're born with. It's a learned skill that develops in most of us as our brains grow. Young kids (especially below age 6-8 or so) have a difficult time distinguishing reality from fiction. Moreover, the younger they are (up to a point), many of them tend to be mimic-machines. So as such, I do believe there is still a crucial responsibility for parents to keep realistically violent games out of sight from those kids.

On another subject, the attack on the news media was spot on. This really needs to be fixed or our current domino-effect of school shootings will perpetuate itself. It really makes me sick.

Jimothy Sterling:
Desensitized to Violence

Description: Warning -- Contains graphic content. If you don't want to see disturbing Internet things, skip the footage starting at 1:20 and ending at 1:49.
As the mainstream news media continues to revel in the Sandy Hook shootings, its pundits point at the finger at videogames for reveling in digital violence. If you believe these hypocrites, your gaming hobby makes you cold and indifferent to scenes of death and destruction. If you believe the Jimquisition - and you should, for its word is law - you'll know that's bollocks.

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Man that was disturbing. It reminds me of some footage from police dashcam where the policeman stops a pickup truck on some US highway. The policeman approaches the driver's side, and the driver comes out. He's dressed like a Vietnam veteran. Things go sour, and the cop shows incredible restraint when the man reaches into his pickup to pull out a rifle. A firefight ensues. You don't actually see much of the violence, but you can hear it. The police officer takes a few hits, and goes to hide behind his squad car. You can hear him screaming for backup. You can tell he is wounded pretty badly as well. The assailant walks towards the officer, and you can hear the policeman beg for his life. And you hear another gunshot, and it's silent. I enjoy all manner of violent video games, but that video shook me to the core. I'll never forget it.

Wesley Brannock:

Mr F.:

Wesley Brannock:
While I didn't like the suicide part I see why Jimothy Sterling used it. He wanted to show the point that real violence was different then video game violence by showing the difference not in a verbal way thats been argued a hundred times over. But in a visual way an effective way. I for one would defend the way in which it is. Why ? Simple for once the news ( to whom shows real violence all the time ) is being shown that the community at large does in fact despise real violence. I for one wouldn't be surprised if members of the site wanted this to be taken down for said reason. In that light we can't be the one's " glorifying " violence it would be C.N.N , Fox news , and other " news " outlets onto which show real violence as the " glorifiers " of violence. Besides here is one question I'd like answered by the media. Which news outlet released the killers face first video game sites or traditional news outlets ?

Guh.

My girlfriend pointed me towards the video (And the thread) based on the logic that she would get to see some wonderful, wonderful rage on my part. She does so love my rants.

Gonna jump over your first arguments and strait to your assumptions that in comparison to games, it is the News media that glorifies violence. If informing people of a situation is the glorification of a situation, then I glorify racism. I am currently glorifying in the mire of Sociology (As I am being informed of a situation). The authors who write books glorify the subject matter of the book, regardless of what the book is about. I glorify the act of rape because a poem I once wrote got into a book about dealing with rape. Huh. Your logic is broken.

See, that is all I am picking apart here. Yes, the news media shows "Real" violence whilst gamers dont have to deal with real violence. Yet one is to inform (And entertain, to a degree, depends on the news outlet) and the other is to purely entertain. I don't watch the news (Or read it, as is more common with me) because I love seeing the corpses of young Syrian men. I watch it because I wish to remain informed as to the hell these people are going through.

Finally, the question you wish to ask the media:
Of course it was the fucking news media that released his face first. Gaming websites do not cover that kind of story, gaming websites do not have the resources to cover that kind of story. You might as well say "I want to know which media showed fight scenes from Soul Calibur" and use that as proof that gaming media is more violent then the reverse.

This argument is not as simple as Jim would like to argue. But I wont drag myself into the mire of this thread.

Just pick apart a single post, point out the mistakes in the logic and the central argument, and then step out.

The point to " inform " the people has long since left the media now its about making killers famous REAL killers mind you not fictional ones. If " informing " now a days means constantly covering a story to the point of harassing the families of murder victims then yes they are " informing ". If " informing " means that your going to turn everything you don't approve of into a WITCH HUNT because something " newsworthy " happened then yes they are " informing ". If " informing " means telling people that the guns , video games , or whatever is to blame then yes they are " informing ". If " informing " means covering only one story of lives being lost all week long then yes they are " informing ". The line between " informing " and glorifying is thin. However on a almost daily basis is being stomped on , spit on by the very people to whom are SUPPOSED to uphold it. My way of confirming this is the FACT in less then ten minutes they managed to politicize it. They politicized it by pointing a finger at everyone but the killer. I can't take the view point of a " news " company seriously when they cover a school shooting and follow it by saying. " This is responsible for the mass killing is ( enter preference ) instead of the shooter ". That person who shot up the school was to blame for the incident yet they will instead blame whatever scapegoat they can find. While people will call it " informing " when instead it simply a format for demonizing that to which had no part in any wrong doing. Tell me did a video game pull the trigger or a PERSON. Did the gun pull its own trigger or did that require a PERSON. Did the entire society kill those kids or did one PERSON do it. All I blame the media for is turning the killer into a star of sorts. People that do horrible things should be forgotten in time while the teachers that used their own bodies to shield the children from a rain of bullets should be remember for their bravery. Yet most people can only remember the name and face of the shooter. Why ? Simple the " news " wanted to " inform " people. ( This is the one and only response I will do. )

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.

You cannot just treat every incident as a stand alone incident. Now, as for anything else? You have just gone off on a rather interesting rant about how you hate the news media. With incredibly poor formatting that makes it rather difficult to read. But you do not really come across as a rational individual, so I guess that helps.

With regards to how the media reports things? It depends on the news outlet to be honest. Al Jazeera reports in a different way from the BBC, Both report in a different way to Faux News. Some are more reputable then others.

If a society gets plagued by mass shootings (Seriously, the states faces them a lot more then anyone else) then perhaps you should look to society and further than the individual.

As a gamer who enjoys violent games (and is also convinced that violent games saved me from my rage and frustration in high school), and who REALLY enjoys paintball...

I could not watch it.

I had to pause the video when he pointed the gun and hesitate for a good 3 minutes before deciding that I did not want to expose myself to that.

Excellent video, Jim. Brilliantly made point. Thank the mods for you.

I feel bad that I wasn't super shocked in the immediate. However it left a little sickening feeling in my stomach as time went on. Hopefully I am not a sociopath, and aspergers syndrome is the only anti social disorder I have.

I agree with the points you brought up Jim.

This is the fifth real death I've seen in news footage, and I've seen some holocaust films that seem to be the only staged non-real media able to portray the way people died in those reports. Schindlers list has some of those for example.

First, the Kennedy assasination. The famous footage of an execution of a Vietcong prisoner. A piece of footage of a crazy person getting gunned down by a dozen cops in front of a one-story vanilla-suburb house. A piece of AP footage from Egypts revolution in 2011, where someone is dropped by assault rifle fire in the middle of a highway. And now this guy blowing up his brains. It's the only bit I saw any blood in. This was especially surprising of the man the cops shot in front of a house.

What they all have in common is that these people(all men btw) just drop as if someone flipped a light switch. Good night, it's over, you're literally dead fucking meat.

And no game has ever done that, though in some ways Spec Ops The Line came closest IMHO and that deserves to be experienced since it handles the horrors of the story so well.

I also saw a dead guy, covered up by the cops just once, outside my 3rd story window here in Berlin. A few hours earlier as I was half asleep in the early morning something had flown past my window. It turns out that was the guy commiting suicide by jumping through his window opposite my building. I don't think I've ever felt queasier than that day when I looked at that guys foot poking out from under the cover the cops had draped over him.

In no way, ever, did a game ever make me feel that way.

I've also fired blanks with a gun. We're big on fireworks here at New Years Eve. Soldiers and police officers train all the time with their weapons to get used to the sheer power and loudness of shots fired with a real, heavy gun. I absolutely despise guns, I'm fascinated by them and I fear them. The brutality of real guns just cannot be portrayed in games. You would require a cinema sound reproduction system and the proper sound to get just a little close. I'm a sound engineer and know how loud real guns actually are. 20 dB of gain represents a tenfold increase in level. 6 dB doubles the level, 20 dB increases it tenfold. A jet engine, which many of us know is 120-140 dB SPL (Sound Pressure Level). A rock concert 100-110 dB SPL. A very loud conversation 85-95 dB SPL. Quiet room ambiancee where you can hear your breathing ~30 dB SPL. A 9mm handgun shot at 1 meter distance on the side is 164 dB SPL. That just 16 dB shy of what a space shuttle take off used to be (~180 dB SPL at 100 meters distance). So a handgun shot is a short-duration event that's around 1000 times louder(60dB) than a rock concert.

That's the violence in terms of sound I'm talking about, not that phewphew stuff in games, where people shouldn't be hurt or subjected to nasty surprises, unless it serves the game.

I honestly don't know just how crazy I'd have to be to fire a gun at another human being. So fucking crazy, I can't imagine it. And I, personally, don't want to imagine it.

Games just haven't got a snowball-in-hell chance of doing that. It seems utterly ridiculous, like drinking coffee might make you go crazy.

I do hope that scientists do find out a little more about what leads to people go that crazy. We could use some knowledge in that direction to combat the fear-crazy we now see.

Ew, Ew, EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
Should have skipped it.

Well, I play Left 4 Dead religiously every night. Can't get more gory than that. And yet, I didn't have the balls to watch that part.

That's not to say that because I play L4D I should be a mindless, heartless robot. In fact, I'll admit I'm a pussy. As cool as the thought of traversing the world, sword in hand, slaying all sorts of evil and riding a white horse while being called the hero of Ferelden would be, I know that if given the chance (In some sort of alternate universe?), I'd probably still pussy out. I shy away from real violence. As a matter of fact, I think I can be called a pacifist. And I think it's the same with the majority of gamers. It's not because most of us are weak nerds who just wanna go home and play games. It's because we're normal; because we're just enjoying a hobby. I hate to bring this up but...I don't see movie or book enthusiasts getting as much crap as we gamers do.

People who commit acts of violence are already sick in the head. Then don't need to play videogames to push them over the edge. Hell, they could have read a book and experience the same thing. Those who say videogames have made them violent use them as a scapegoat cause it's an easy cop out. "Oh...uh, I killed people. Because videogames. I'm a victim here, really".
What's even worse is the retards who actually believe it. "Well! I don't know much about videogames...but if he said it, then it must be true! Burn all videogames everrrrr!".

What's worse is that it's not gonna change because, again, those accusing videogames of being violent don't actually give a crap about videogames. It's easier to point and judge from afar than sit down and understand what they're accusing at the risk of being wrong.

lax4life:
You know, I think that you can find gamers feel uncomfortable with violence in video games too. I know for a fact that I felt like shit with Spec Ops: The Line, and all of my friends who I got to play with, who all play "violent video games" on a pretty regular basis, said that it was fucked up.

If presented well, violence in video games, even though it will never be as realistic and be a little cartoony in comparison to real life, can still make you feel bad.

I've got to say I agree, Spec Ops: The Line made me feel bad and I play Halo a lot -not exactly the most realistic shooter on the planet but it still made me question my enjoyment of it. I felt very drained when I completed spec ops the first time round. At the end I couldn't decide at the end there is a choice that after the whole story made me question many things and I didn't play any shooters for while after that. The odd thing about spec ops is it's game play isn't unique and has the pretty much standard shooter graphics of this generation but there are the harrowing details like fallen enemies writhing around the floor in pain (an issue I had with GTA4 amplified) that make it so effective and unlike many video games the consequences impact on the character and you.

It is when things become realistic that it becomes disturbing, often we can cope with idea of things but as soon as we are faced with the reality of something we can't handle it and whilst horrible I get Jim's point it's a good thing, it proves we aren't changed by cartoon violence, we still don't like real violence.

The clip is disturbing, I regret not skipping it and I'll do my best to forget it but I get why he showed it at least he warned us.

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