The Big Picture: Is Django Racist?

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JudgeGame:
[quote="abell" post="6.398501.16311375"]

Racism is still terrible. The socio-economic gap between white people and virtually every other race in the world is obscene. Black people are still treated terribly, by employers, by the police, by the government and by the general public. The few victories black people have achieved over years of determined struggle seem to have only moved the bigotry and abuse away from themselves and on to other groups.

We like to pretend racism is isolated. Racism is what defines western society. Wall Street was built thanks to investment in slave trade. America became a global superpower by embracing slavery to the bitter end. The Declaration of Independence was signed only because the British Empire demanded the commonwealth to abolish slavery and the americans refused.

Nowadays, we export racism and slavery. We send work to third world countries and work people of other races to death and somehow this is a step up from slavery. Every day, Taiwanese workers of Apple products can't take the brutal working conditions anymore and commit suicide. Even so, Iphones still dominate the market.

It is absurd to sugest that anything can be seperate from racism when everything we have ever known is racism.

So, point by point.

Black people are treated terribly. Are they torn apart by dogs? Are they forced to labor against their will? Are they legally prevented from voting? From holding political office? From eating in the same restaurants, going to the same schools, and hospitals? No, to all of that? So, we can agree that race relations in America are better than they were in pre-Civil War America? Pre Civil Rights America? Good?

Racism is what defines Western Society. Wow. Just wow. Western Society, the past 500 years of European and American (North and South) history is all about racism? It's not about the religious wars that swept through Europe for several hundreds of those years, and directly led to Enlightenment Philosophy as well as the exodus of Europeans to the New World? Also, racism doesn't exist in non western societies? Japan and Korea haven't had a thousand year blood feud, despite the fact that they're genetically impossible to separate? Absolute statements tend to be difficult to defend, because they're very fragile.

The Declaration of Independence was signed because the British required the abolition of slavery. You have delved deep into the historical revisionism well. The Brits didn't outlaw the slave trade until 1807 and didn't abolish slavery until 1833. Seriously, wikipedia exists.

Wall Street was built on slavery? No. Just no. Slavery was not a good economic system, in the same way that feudalism was not a good economic system. Because, they're pretty much the same system. Do you remember how the North economically dominated the South, which led to the South being incredible protective of their way of life. Then, during the Civil War, the North produced way more guns, had better rail lines, logistics, etc? Like, basic 8th grade education? The reason for that is because industrialization makes you way richer than agriculture based slavery. Indeed, do you remember how right after the end of slavery, it was basically reintroduced as share cropping, which actually saved the plantation owners a whole bunch of money? Wall Street was built on the backs of Stanford, Carnegie, Mellon, Rockefeller, Morgan, and Vanderbilt. Look them up, they didn't get rich being plantation owners. Again, Wikipedia exists.

We export racism and slavery to the third world. Already covered the racism section of that. Taiwanese workers are not slaves anymore than you or I are, unless you believe capitalism itself is slavery, but, that's a bigger conversation. It's much easier to bridge the industrial gap with the money provided by industrial countries that want to import cheap goods, than to try to do it alone. That nasty industrial phase lasts less than a lifetime in developing countries, compared to the century and a half that it took Britain, and the US. E.g., Singapore in the past 40 years.

Here's a nice visual representation of what Western Industrialization has done for the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo

Finally, "...everything we have ever known is racism." This is exactly the problem that I was referring to earlier. Race is not everything. Race is not the foundation of everything. Race is a single component in human lives, that includes art, reason, faith, work, love, etc. Can race interfere with those? Sure. But, they're not determined by race, now less so than any other time in history. And if you insist on viewing "everything" in terms of race, you're the one with a problem.

krazykidd:
I decided to not watch Django unchained for the same reason as Spike Lee, before he made those statements . Now while i'm sure the movie has good intentions, those intentions are lost on the general public .

The film has made $126 million dollars at the box office. The general public is watching the film, and a lot of them are thoroughly enjoying it. They are actually getting those good intentions as opposed to those who are refusing to watch it (not that that's not your right, of course).

I was going to go see this movie, but sadly the director (whose name I can not spell for the life of me) makes far too violent of movies for my tastes. I choose not to see it on that ground alone.

However, the story looks interesting, and Mr. Lee sounds like a bigot. If he had seen the movie first, then I would have more respect for his opinion.

So let me get this right, a movie about a former slave wanting to kill his old owner and get his wife back is racist now? If anything its empowering.

mrblakemiller:

krazykidd:
I decided to not watch Django unchained for the same reason as Spike Lee, before he made those statements . Now while i'm sure the movie has good intentions, those intentions are lost on the general public .

The film has made $126 million dollars at the box office. The general public is watching the film, and a lot of them are thoroughly enjoying it. They are actually getting those good intentions as opposed to those who are refusing to watch it (not that that's not your right, of course).

Oh i have no doubt people are watching it . But i seriously doubt the grand majority of people are really "getting" the movie . Beig black myself , i always find movies that deal with racism ( any kind of racism not just towards black people ) hard to watch . Hell i watched the movie "Man with the iron fist" and the small 5 minute segment showing the black smith past with slavers hard to watch . Let alone an entire movie revolving around it .

I would not call this movie "racist" per se , but i personally , do not enjoy these kinds of film . While i do understand the importance of remembering events of the past, i don't enjoy feeling like i'm being told :" look your black and this is where you came from " , even if it wasn't meant to intentionally scorn me .

I know i am explaining this poorly , iv'e always had trouble expressing my feelings when it comes to this perticular subject .

What's good is that this dialogue about slavery is exactly what Tarantino whats. That and to remove all the venom out of the word nigger.

Brad Shepard:
So let me get this right, a movie about a former slave wanting to kill his old owner and get his wife back is racist now? If anything its empowering.

Just because something is empowering doesn't mean it can't be racist.

mrblakemiller:

The film has made $126 million dollars at the box office. The general public is watching the film, and a lot of them are thoroughly enjoying it. They are actually getting those good intentions as opposed to those who are refusing to watch it (not that that's not your right, of course).

In the world of race and film you always have to be wary of good intentions. A lot of films have good intentions, but just end up making white people feel good about themselves rather than seriously exploring race and race relations. I briefly mentioned The Help in an earlier post. There are also plenty of white savior films out there.

I don't know if Django Unchained fits into this since I haven't seen it. I'm just posting this to show that just because people are enjoying a film's good intentions doesn't necessarily make it a good thing.

JudgeGame:

RedDeadFred:

DVS BSTrD:

And where was Spike Lee's outrage when Tarantino made a movie confronting the actual Holocaust?

That was my first thought too.

OT: Agreed with everything you said Bob. We shouldn't be throwing this stuff in a closet. It needs to come the surface every now and then. And if it's a fun and cathartic experience where the good guys win, all the better IMO. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Yeah. My first criticism of Spike Lee's ethos of "slavery should be dealt with by black filmmakers" is that by that logic US filmmakers shouldn't be allowed to deal with any issues. Like, how can you make a Hollywood film about Vietnam or the Holocaust without it being completely detached from the things its protagonists went through and the implications thereof. If Lee really believed his own argument, he'd have quit movies.

Also it seems odd that being loosely geneticly related (but more geneticly related than other, even more loosely geneticly related people) suddenly grants insight. I find his "Of course blacks know best what blacks went through. We share a skin color and distant ancestry with those people. Isn't that what is important?" attitude kinda odd. Why should you be more concerned or connected to one tradgedy over another just because you happen to be very very distantly related to the victims of one?

Ok so it is petty of me but...Spagetti Western's didn't turn the traditional Western inside out and subvert the vision of John Ford. John Ford did that. Bob you need to watch The Searchers. It is important. Not to dismiss the work of Helman, Leone et al but Ford wasn't a one dimensional director either

Sylveria:
If the movie was made by a black director and writer, Spike Lee would say it was one of the most poignant movies of our time. If you ask me, the only thing that's racist about this movie.. is Spike Lee.

Bingo.
Spike Lee is an ass. Have you ever heard his views on The Green Mile, specifically the character of John Coffey?
He uses the term "super-duper magical negro" to describe him. This basically means a black character who only exists to help white people. And guess what? It's because there are too many white decision makers in media.
So if a black man is cast in the part of, well...Jesus, that's just Whitey keeping you down!

Also the guy's remaking Old Boy.......just piss off already, Lee.

Sylveria:
If the movie was made by a black director and writer, Spike Lee would say it was one of the most poignant movies of our time. If you ask me, the only thing that's racist about this movie.. is Spike Lee.

No he bloody well wouldn't. Stop with that kind of conjecture. I have plenty of reservations with regards to Spike Lee, and I wouldn't hesitate to call the man an ass, but projecting your presuppositions isn't the way to go. Google what Spike Lee has to say about fellow black filmmaker Tyler Perry. I think you'll find it illuminating.

I saw this movie, and it wasn't racist. Not by a long shot.

I'll put this in spoilers because it contains spoilers. Read at your own risk please:

Django isn't racist and shows just how horrible slavery is. If that's racist, would you prefer if the men in the movie were all white and enslaved white people or mixed with aliens enslaving people? Could be pulled off, but this movie sends a strong message and I enjoyed it with my girlfriend. My girlfriend is actually part black and she loved it herself so what does that say?

Django isn't racist, not by a long shot, and even if it was, so what? It's just a movie, why should anyone care? IMHO I can tell you what is extremely racist and sexist these days, the good ol US of A as a whole. Thanks to our obsession with political correctness we are more racist and sexist than we have ever been in our history, with the exception of the time when swinging black people by a rope in the trees and smacking our wives was a routine activity. Why? It's because we (and by we I mean the country as a whole) are completely obsessed with avoiding anything that could possibly be considered racist and sexist comments at all times, but more importantly, We. Just. Will. NOT! SHUT! UP! ABOUT! RACISM! AND! SEXISM!!!

Both sides, whether it be the white guys or the black/asian/hispanic/women/ etc. will tiptoe around everybody else and scream bloody murder if anyone says or does anything anymore that could even be slightly considered racist or sexist, making WAAAAY bigger deal about those than they really are worth. Whenever something that could possibly be considered racist or sexist like Django comes out, people act like the MOTHER****ING 15th or 19th amendments have been repealed or something, not like "________ has come out, is it a good ______ or not?" Like they should. The irony is the fact that we're being extremely racist and/or sexist by doing that ourselves.

We've got to the point where we are so NOT victimized by racism or sexism in any real meaningful way in our real lives that we go around looking for anything that can even vaguely be considered racist or sexist in our entertainment, news media, or what some guy down the street said just so we feel justified in continuing to b****h about it. Hell, if sometimes if we really can't find it we'll just make it up if we really have to.

The fact is, there's very little if any serious racism or sexism out there anymore, at least in the U.S. If you want to avoid being racist and/or sexist, here's some advice people: if you experience racism or sexism in a real, major way, take whoever or whatever it is to court if you really need to, every other case? Every other case is just insults, just ignore it like mature human beings. You know, ignoring insults? The thing we spend years in school being taught to do? Whatever happened to that? That, and act the same way around people of other races and genders the same way as you would among your own, that is EQUALITY.

This reminds me of Resident Evil 5. Number 1, 2, 3 and 4 went under any "moral" radar until the plot took place in Africa. Then peoples lips started moving without consulting the brain first. It was racist and yadda yadda yadda. Many behind the ruckus had not even played the damn game to begin with. I guess to be political correct, Capcom should have arranged for some white infected to be flown in so the slaughter could assume a more moral form.

Honestly, issues like this are embarrassing. Grow up and enjoy the fucking movie. I did.

Another well done short Bob.

Anyone else notice the return of Moviebob's accent during parts of this one?

OT: Interesting opinion, and I think it's not an incorrect one, nor is Spikes.

Well said, Bob.
Django was a fantastic movie.

I'm gonna go on record as disagreeing this time. If you go with the established definition of racist, (casting a particular ethnic group in favorable or unfavorable light by merit of their ethnicity alone), then yes, it is racist. DiCaprio makes me hate white people. I don't idolize Django, but I do feel strongly for him and other characters. If roles were switched, it wouldn't work as well. (Assuming it wasn't supposed to be historical fiction.) So agree to disagree? Still a good one.

DVS BSTrD:
19 seconds till the accent showed up, that's a new record.
And where was Spike Lee's outrage when Tarantino made a movie confronting the actual Holocaust?

Funny how outrage works.

Captcha: wake of the flood

LiquidGrape:
Here is a picture of Quentin Tarantino together with actress Nichole Galicia who plays "Sheba" in Django Unchained. Note the pose and clothing. Or in one case, lack thereof.

I'm just going to leave this here. I think the irony speaks for itself.

How is it irony? Race and gender equality are two different subjects.

And Ms Galicia is completely gorgeous. Whether or not her being a model objectifies her or empowers her is for another film to tackle.

And on that note, when did Tarantino claim he was making a film about race equality. He is a fan of black culture(and black women apparently lol), but he doesn't use Django Unchained as a political statement. If anything, the white-washing of American segregation in films like "Remember the Titans" do far more harm to the black community than films like Django.

These times the problems are all about PC (political correctness). The film uses the word nigger and negro a lot and therefore Spike Lee said it was racist. From my american histry class in college and the text I've been reading that was how african american were related. Tarantino should not use african american, that is anachronic. Also the main point of the movie is what MovieBob said. It could take another setting, but he choose that so he could do his thing.

Thats pretty funny.
and I don't mean asking if this movie is racist...

In general I wouldn't say so, but I would say its a terrible movie, even by Tarantino standards.
As it often happens with his movies, it mistakes sappy effecticist sentimentality for actual emotional impact or intelligent observation, but I'd say it's the worst I've seen here.
As a clarification, I find this movie (and inlorious basterds) offensive not because of the display of racism itself, or of difficult conflicts, but because of the implied "realism" faced with the grotesque ridiculization of the conflicts and characters themselves.

I agree that history and ideologic shouldn't be solely relegated to museums, and I respect making commentaries and bringing the discussion forward to everyone; but there is a clear distinction between quotes, discussion, and satire, but there is yet another broad line away from completely missing the point and doing whatever you want (In fact I'd say that Django and IB have little to do with history, and make a point out of the distortion of accepted history that we get in the media, as a subvertive tool. And only in this sense I think they are slightly better commentaries than movies... But it also misses the point). In this sense, I perfectly understand someone who cherishes history and respects a certain view from the perspective of knowledge, would find it offensive, even when it is not racist.

I personally resent the implication that we as an audience need that sort of distortion to enjoy or discuss a vision of history, are we really that dumb? To me it was fine when he portrayed a silly story with dumb characters doing stupid things (Pulp fiction, my "favourite" movie from him).

But to bring that lack of subtlety into a narrative that is perfectly engaging and interesting? for the sake of what? style? fun?
I don't think anyone can deny that he often falls (intentionally or unintentionally) into emulating bad movie clichés as "auteur" quotes of a style, which ends up infecting bad movie clichés into an actually badly paced, horribly executed pastiche that wouldn't be given a second look if it wasn't for his name in the titles. Really, Brunhilde as a subtle quote? It's as blunt as a sledgehammer to the face, the black siegrfried to slay his white dragon and bathe in his blood. Real smooth metaphoring there Bro, but that's as far as it goes...

Sovereignty:

Dr. Witticism:

"Fixed"? People's accents need to be "fixed" so they exactly match what you want, or you will boycot them? That's unbelievably sad and misguided. If he "fixes" it to a non-descript American accent, should all British people not watch him? If he switched to a British accent, would you not watch him, or would that be ok with you because you feel British is one of the "proper" accents? Would you mind telling us what, exactly, makes an accent proper to you? Are those traits that make them OK in your eyes shared by everyone's opinion? Or are you suggesting that Bob isn't doing well enough whenever he crosses your personal lines? I'm genuinely curious as to how you arrived at such a silly conclusion.

EDIT: the best part is that you're bringing this up in the thread for a video about racism, which is based at least partly in provincialism, xenophobia, and, ultimately, fear and/or derision of "the other." Oh sweet, sweet irony.

I don't need to read a single word past your second usage of the word fixed in quotes.

You obviously didn't take the time to read my post. I told him to either MASK THE ACCENT COMPLETELY (As he's done in plenty videos in the past.) Or to stop trying to mask it and let his accent shine through as it would normally. It is completely annoying for him to go in and out of his accent throughout a video, and if he takes his craft seriously I'd hope he'd strive to make sure it was as perfect as could be.

Of course to someone like you it's not constructive criticism, no you read a single word into my post and then begin frantically pounding the quote button. Absolutely pathetic.

Unfortunately, if you had continued reading this thread, you would have seen the post where I not only "apologize completely and unequivocally," but even mention how wrong I was and state that I will not go back and edit my previous comment, so that people can see how wrong I was (rather than being dishonest and deleting it) and so it can serve as an example of what not to do. And I explain why I became overzealous.

I believe in admitting when I'm wrong and apologizing for unwarranted criticism. The internet would be a far better, more constructive place if more people would do that.

EDIT: which isn't to say it's your fault for not reading the entire thread. Rather, I'm suggesting that it's unfortunate that my apology came several posts later.

Lonewolfm16:

bunji:
For once I thought this was a great episode with a very rigid logical structure, but I wonder; if someone made a movie about all the black-on-black slavery that took place during this same period, would that be okay?

Do you mean the slavery in pre-colonial Africa that was the result of tribal warfare, and acted as a predeccessor to American slaver, or the odd cases of American slavery where free-blacks wound up wealthy in the south and bought slaves?

Either, I mean it was pretty balsy of Django to even have a black man be one of the villains in a movie about slavers, I felt it presented a more nuanced and interesting view of the whole mess that way. In fact, it would be interesting to see if anyone would dare to make one even about modern day slavery in africa, or the north korean labour camps in russia - somehow it seems to be more "ok" if we focus on the devilery of the white man - and though of that there is no shortage, I think we'd do well to remember that, as Yahtzee put it, people are shit. Everyone.

Daaaah Whoosh:

PainInTheAssInternet:

What are you going on about? You think that black people are suddenly going to become remorseless killing machines after watching Django? The same way video games cause young, stupid people to start school shootings? You might want to review your prejudices.

Well, I suppose I see your point. I guess I'm just worried about the young, stupid black people. The rest of them are probably fine, just like I'm sure the rest of the world that isn't young or stupid probably won't do much harm.

Man you are so right. It's common knowledge that young, urban blacks, those inferior sons of bitches, have a hard time deciphering fiction from reality. Hell if we didn't tell them otherwise, they would probably think slavery is still around!

We'll need armed guards at every theater, maybe get some pamphlets, tell these ignorant morons, that just because it happened in a movie, doesn't mean it can happen in real life. Only then, will those lesser humans get the point

Lionsfan:

Daaaah Whoosh:

PainInTheAssInternet:

What are you going on about? You think that black people are suddenly going to become remorseless killing machines after watching Django? The same way video games cause young, stupid people to start school shootings? You might want to review your prejudices.

Well, I suppose I see your point. I guess I'm just worried about the young, stupid black people. The rest of them are probably fine, just like I'm sure the rest of the world that isn't young or stupid probably won't do much harm.

Man you are so right. It's common knowledge that young, urban blacks, those inferior sons of bitches, have a hard time deciphering fiction from reality. Hell if we didn't tell them otherwise, they would probably think slavery is still around!

We'll need armed guards at every theater, maybe get some pamphlets, tell these ignorant morons, that just because it happened in a movie, doesn't mean it can happen in real life. Only then, will those lesser humans get the point

First of all, when I said 'young, stupid black people', I was referring to a subgroup of the group 'black people'. The point I was making was that white people would have no reason to take anything negative messages from Django, although I suppose, now that I think more about it, the stupider white people would take it as reason to shoot black people on sight, so that they don't have their family and friends murdered and blown up. The majority of the world, regardless of race, is not stupid, but I'd say a lot of them are far stupider than they should be when identifying those among them who are at risk of violent acts.
And yes, I do believe that some people, of any race, have a problem distinguishing fiction from reality. Especially highly religious people, who take the words of a book as the Gospel truth, pun intended. In all cultures, there are at least partially fictionalized heroes whose stories people use as a template for their own morality. I was trying to state earlier that in the past, heroes who fought back against the people who wronged them only achieved murderous victory at the cost of their own lives, or of something very nearly as important to them. Think of Hamlet, who murdered his uncle for murdering his father, but who was also murdered in the very same scene. The idea used to be that even though some people may have to die in order for the world to be set right, there would be no place for murderers in the new, better world that had been created. However, nowadays we are getting stories of heroes who brutally murder their enemies and walk away unscathed. I am worried that this is teaching some people that vengeance is okay, that if they kill people they don't like, they will be rewarded. Django is one of the stories I am worried about, although the fact that it's about a specifically black protagonist fighting against specifically white antagonists (and anyone who supports them), I was worried about the people who could see themselves as a black protagonist, namely, black people.
Perhaps I am being racist. That is a possibility. But if this was a movie about a white man murdering a family of black people who had kidnapped and tortured his wife, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. I'm pretty sure my point would have been inherent, that stupid white people would take it as a reason to go out and kill black people.

Caramel Frappe:
I saw this movie, and it wasn't racist. Not by a long shot.

I'll put this in spoilers because it contains spoilers. Read at your own risk please:

Django isn't racist and shows just how horrible slavery is. If that's racist, would you prefer if the men in the movie were all white and enslaved white people or mixed with aliens enslaving people? Could be pulled off, but this movie sends a strong message and I enjoyed it with my girlfriend. My girlfriend is actually part black and she loved it herself so what does that say?

If funny you mention enslaving of white people in a sort-of science fiction setting, because Planet of the Apes (the original) did just that.

Daaaah Whoosh:

Lionsfan:

Daaaah Whoosh:

Well, I suppose I see your point. I guess I'm just worried about the young, stupid black people. The rest of them are probably fine, just like I'm sure the rest of the world that isn't young or stupid probably won't do much harm.

Man you are so right. It's common knowledge that young, urban blacks, those inferior sons of bitches, have a hard time deciphering fiction from reality. Hell if we didn't tell them otherwise, they would probably think slavery is still around!

We'll need armed guards at every theater, maybe get some pamphlets, tell these ignorant morons, that just because it happened in a movie, doesn't mean it can happen in real life. Only then, will those lesser humans get the point

First of all, when I said 'young, stupid black people', I was referring to a subgroup of the group 'black people'. The point I was making was that white people would have no reason to take anything negative messages from Django, although I suppose, now that I think more about it, the stupider white people would take it as reason to shoot black people on sight, so that they don't have their family and friends murdered and blown up. The majority of the world, regardless of race, is not stupid, but I'd say a lot of them are far stupider than they should be when identifying those among them who are at risk of violent acts.
And yes, I do believe that some people, of any race, have a problem distinguishing fiction from reality. Especially highly religious people, who take the words of a book as the Gospel truth, pun intended. In all cultures, there are at least partially fictionalized heroes whose stories people use as a template for their own morality. I was trying to state earlier that in the past, heroes who fought back against the people who wronged them only achieved murderous victory at the cost of their own lives, or of something very nearly as important to them. Think of Hamlet, who murdered his uncle for murdering his father, but who was also murdered in the very same scene. The idea used to be that even though some people may have to die in order for the world to be set right, there would be no place for murderers in the new, better world that had been created. However, nowadays we are getting stories of heroes who brutally murder their enemies and walk away unscathed. I am worried that this is teaching some people that vengeance is okay, that if they kill people they don't like, they will be rewarded. Django is one of the stories I am worried about, although the fact that it's about a specifically black protagonist fighting against specifically white antagonists (and anyone who supports them), I was worried about the people who could see themselves as a black protagonist, namely, black people.
Perhaps I am being racist. That is a possibility. But if this was a movie about a white man murdering a family of black people who had kidnapped and tortured his wife, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. I'm pretty sure my point would have been inherent, that stupid white people would take it as a reason to go out and kill black people.

You've gone from full blown racism to even further down the line to borderline idiocy.

Not to even mention your rambling incoherent mess of a post was not only mind-numbingly flat, but incredibly hard to read due the lack of anything resembling proper grammar and syntax.

You also completely miss the context the movie gives for Django's actions and the fact that one of the primary protagonists is a white European dude, who, at least in the beginning, hates slavery more than Django does(or is at least more accepting of it). You would know this if you actually saw the film, instead of trying to make up and justify reasons to hate it.

I'm southern so I've seen all the various ways people have tried to spin slavery over the years from a Disney style version that takes out all the bad parts to a topic that only people of a certain race are allowed to talk about.

Personally I loved the way Django tackled the subject. Horrible, brutal, cruel, sadistic, just a top notch way of showing slavery as a horrible institution without any redeeming qualities. A way for people to talk about slavery with all the bull taken away to say it's some of the worst stuff one human could have done to another human.

daibakuha:

You've gone from full blown racism to even further down the line to borderline idiocy.

Not to even mention your rambling incoherent mess of a post was not only mind-numbingly flat, but incredibly hard to read due the lack of anything resembling proper grammar and syntax.

You also completely miss the context the movie gives for Django's actions and the fact that one of the primary protagonists is a white European dude, who, at least in the beginning, hates slavery more than Django does(or is at least more accepting of it). You would know this if you actually saw the film, instead of trying to make up and justify reasons to hate it.

I can see I am not getting my point across. This is the last time I will try.

I do not believe I have been racist. I believe I have been politically incorrect, perhaps, but as I believe was my original point, it's hard not to appear racist when talking about a movie about slavery.

It does not matter that Django is black. What matters is that he murders a lot of people and gets away with it. He doesn't become a tragic martyr; rather, he becomes a comic hero.

I am sorry that my post was flat, I'm not used to the forum taking spaces between paragraphs. I am trying to use them now.

I am sorry that you could not understand my grammar and syntax. I have been reading Jacobean poetry lately, I find it has an adverse effect on my writing.

I don't understand what your third paragraph is even trying to say. The German DID die for what he believed, he DID sacrifice himself for his ideals, and his plan DID NOT involve murdering two dozen men, until he was pushed to the breaking point. Remember how Django got his wife back, then proceeded to wait for the rest of the plantation to return from the funeral so that he could shoot them all down in cold blood? That's called premeditated murder. He'd gotten what he wanted, he just had to go back to cause more death. Which is fine, they mostly deserved it, but Django should not have survived unharmed from the event.

I hope that proved to you that I did see the film. I don't know what more I can say.

Daaaah Whoosh:

Lionsfan:

Daaaah Whoosh:

Well, I suppose I see your point. I guess I'm just worried about the young, stupid black people. The rest of them are probably fine, just like I'm sure the rest of the world that isn't young or stupid probably won't do much harm.

Man you are so right. It's common knowledge that young, urban blacks, those inferior sons of bitches, have a hard time deciphering fiction from reality. Hell if we didn't tell them otherwise, they would probably think slavery is still around!

We'll need armed guards at every theater, maybe get some pamphlets, tell these ignorant morons, that just because it happened in a movie, doesn't mean it can happen in real life. Only then, will those lesser humans get the point

First of all, when I said 'young, stupid black people', I was referring to a subgroup of the group 'black people'. The point I was making was that white people would have no reason to take anything negative messages from Django, although I suppose, now that I think more about it, the stupider white people would take it as reason to shoot black people on sight, so that they don't have their family and friends murdered and blown up. The majority of the world, regardless of race, is not stupid, but I'd say a lot of them are far stupider than they should be when identifying those among them who are at risk of violent acts.
And yes, I do believe that some people, of any race, have a problem distinguishing fiction from reality. Especially highly religious people, who take the words of a book as the Gospel truth, pun intended. In all cultures, there are at least partially fictionalized heroes whose stories people use as a template for their own morality. I was trying to state earlier that in the past, heroes who fought back against the people who wronged them only achieved murderous victory at the cost of their own lives, or of something very nearly as important to them. Think of Hamlet, who murdered his uncle for murdering his father, but who was also murdered in the very same scene. The idea used to be that even though some people may have to die in order for the world to be set right, there would be no place for murderers in the new, better world that had been created. However, nowadays we are getting stories of heroes who brutally murder their enemies and walk away unscathed. I am worried that this is teaching some people that vengeance is okay, that if they kill people they don't like, they will be rewarded. Django is one of the stories I am worried about, although the fact that it's about a specifically black protagonist fighting against specifically white antagonists (and anyone who supports them), I was worried about the people who could see themselves as a black protagonist, namely, black people.
Perhaps I am being racist. That is a possibility. But if this was a movie about a white man murdering a family of black people who had kidnapped and tortured his wife, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. I'm pretty sure my point would have been inherent, that stupid white people would take it as a reason to go out and kill black people.

It's not a "perhaps this is racist." What you've said is racist. Simply adding something about how white people might think it's ok to shoot black people doesn't change the fact that your original post you said, "I am a bit worried that some black people may walk away from Django thinking that it's a good idea to murder white people and blow up their houses, because then you'll get a wife and some fancy clothes, and overall a pretty happy ending."

That's the kind of shit that pops up on Cable News, or some white supremacist site.

You didn't talk about vengeance movies in general and their effect on society, or anything like that. Your first post was about how some black people specifically might not be able to distinguish fact from reality. And in a thread chock full of semi-racist posts and very idiotic posts, yours is near the top of the list

Lionsfan:

It's not a "perhaps this is racist." What you've said is racist. Simply adding something about how white people might think it's ok to shoot black people doesn't change the fact that your original post you said, "I am a bit worried that some black people may walk away from Django thinking that it's a good idea to murder white people and blow up their houses, because then you'll get a wife and some fancy clothes, and overall a pretty happy ending."

That's the kind of shit that pops up on Cable News, or some white supremacist site.

You didn't talk about vengeance movies in general and their effect on society, or anything like that. Your first post was about how some black people specifically might not be able to distinguish fact from reality. And in a thread chock full of semi-racist posts and very idiotic posts, yours is near the top of the list

I just assumed that I wouldn't have to say anything about all the revenge movies that I think inspire people of other races to commit acts of genocide. I didn't think people would be racist enough to assume I think black people are inferior; I do not. I'm simply stating that since this is a movie based upon race relations, and it involves a black protagonist killing white people, I was worried about similar things happening in real life. I assumed that everyone is at least smart enough to know that movies about killing people don't tell them to also kill people unless they have some things in common with the protagonist. Since racism is still prevalent in America, and since black people are most often the ones who are on the worse side of it, I thought that many victims of modern-day racism would turn to violent means of vengeance, rather than more peaceful ones. I'm sorry if people like to jump to racist conclusions, I thought my line of reasoning was apparent.

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