Jimquisition: Accepting the Isms

 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 NEXT
 

Accepting the Isms

Games are racist. Games are homophobic. Games are sexist. And that's okay!

Watch Video

So, you are telling me that no-one wants to take my games away from me?
Can I finally come out of the basement then?
Or will all these "isms" suddenly unfold and steal my library?

On a more serious note:
I truly enjoy things which I know to be politically incorrect and offensive to some.
And I am well aware that some of the things I enjoy are probably offensive to others and I am fine with those people being offended.
I am, whoever, a bit weary of people crying out that "OMG EVERYTHING NEEDS TO CHANGE SO NOTHING EVER IS OFFENSIVE EVER AGAIN ANYMORE", because if we go that far, we will be sitting in front of blank screens, lest we offend the colour-blind who can't play, listening to nothing, so as not to offend the deaf.

This helps compensate for the badly-missed point of the "Easy Mode" video, I'd say. Spot on. Nobody is going to take games away. Only bad sales can do that. If someone is talking shit about a game you like and you feel it's unfair, the best response is to simply go out and buy a copy of the game.

I do this with the new CoD release every year ;p ;p ;p ;p ;p ;p

To be perfectly honest I think this website in general has made me more paranoid in general. I don't want to talk about racism sexism or homophobia in video games, Hell, I'm starting to reach the point where I don't want to talk about ANYTHING in video games because this website can be rather volatile. And I defended the Tomb Raider reboot, I didn't think that it was sexist, and I did jump on the Hitman trailer, because I did think that that was sexist. I have opinions I guess I'm just tired of massive flame filled debates that seem to go nowhere. I'm really starting to think that's all that goes on here.

Ariseishirou:
This helps compensate for the badly-missed point of the "Easy Mode" video

Aww, you don't have to feel like compensating for missing the point of my video. :)

While I agree with basically everything you say Jim, I come from Australia and those "Isims" have in the past stopped game releases over here because our government is retarded. Still agree with you, and thank God that your right.

erttheking:
To be perfectly honest I think this website in general has made me more paranoid in general. I don't want to talk about racism sexism or homophobia in video games, Hell, I'm starting to reach the point where I don't want to talk about ANYTHING in video games because this website can be rather volatile.

YOU HAVE A VIDEOGAME AVATAR, HOW DARE YOU, YOU ARE CLEARLY RACIST, SEXIST, HOMOPHOBIC AND AN ATHEIST FUNDAMENTALIST AS WELL AS A CREATIONIST. TO THE TORCHES EVERYONE!!11!!!

On a related note:
I am getting weary of talking about anything related to gender, race, etc..., simply because I feel that I have heard most every argument already and that regurgitating them won't make them any fresher.

Jimothy Sterling:

Ariseishirou:
This helps compensate for the badly-missed point of the "Easy Mode" video

Aww, you don't have to feel like compensating for missing the point of my video. :)

So Jim, all this talk about "compensating"...
Are you trying to tell us something?

Perhaps, but there are those out there who will use those tiny little things to attempt to undermine the entire art form.

Not that it justifies the willful ignorance of certain issues but yeah, in this day and age when people can somehow equate Mass Effect with child killing...you can see why some gamers over-react.

I think controversial elements should not only be accepted but encouraged in some respects. We want gaming to be taken seriously? We need to take gaming seriously. And that means not pretending that "isms" don't exist.

And you know what I found most offensive about the Zombie bate torso? The fact that she obviously had implants. So shallow.

Calibanbutcher:
So, you are telling me that no-one wants to take my games away from me?
Can I finally come out of the basement then?
Or will all these "isms" suddenly unfold and steal my library?

No! We need even MORE games! EVERYONE needs a games! Have gamers armed with DSs patrolling our schools. A national database to track all the JRPG loving deviants!

Calibanbutcher:

Jimothy Sterling:

Ariseishirou:
This helps compensate for the badly-missed point of the "Easy Mode" video

Aww, you don't have to feel like compensating for missing the point of my video. :)

So Jim, all this talk about "compensating"...
Are you trying to tell us something?

Yes.

Instead of a penis, I have a really small talking car between my legs. It sings at night.

Calibanbutcher:

erttheking:
To be perfectly honest I think this website in general has made me more paranoid in general. I don't want to talk about racism sexism or homophobia in video games, Hell, I'm starting to reach the point where I don't want to talk about ANYTHING in video games because this website can be rather volatile.

YOU HAVE A VIDEOGAME AVATAR, HOW DARE YOU, YOU ARE CLEARLY RACIST, SEXIST, HOMOPHOBIC AND AN ATHEIST FUNDAMENTALIST AS WELL AS A CREATIONIST. TO THE TORCHES EVERYONE!!11!!!

On a related note:
I am getting weary of talking about anything related to gender, race, etc..., simply because I feel that I have heard most every argument already and that regurgitating them won't make them any fresher.

Yeah, I saw how long the thread was about the dead island torso and I didn't even want to touch it. It didn't help when I indirectly found out that mid debate, one poster had gotten suspended for posting a picture of a middle finger to a guy he was debating with, and saying that he didn't even care if he got suspended. I personally never really liked that poster, but it really does show how volatile this website can get at times.

Jimothy Sterling:

Calibanbutcher:

Jimothy Sterling:

Aww, you don't have to feel like compensating for missing the point of my video. :)

So Jim, all this talk about "compensating"...
Are you trying to tell us something?

Yes.

Instead of a penis, I have a really small talking car between my legs. It sings at night.

So, are you driving a really big penis to work?

Jimothy Sterling:

Ariseishirou:
This helps compensate for the badly-missed point of the "Easy Mode" video

Aww, you don't have to feel like compensating for missing the point of my video. :)

Well thank GOD for that. And you, Jim. Always you. Even if you're wrong about Dark Souls.

Alandoril:
Perhaps, but there are those out there who will use those tiny little things to attempt to undermine the entire art form.

I would argue that trying to bury those little things, hiding them, and acting sensitive whenever they're brought up can only HELP those trying to undermine it. Accepting them, and using them as jumping points for rational and provocative discussion, will only solidify gaming's status.

I'm not so sure the issue with criticizing games triggers some reaction where people think their games will be taken away. Essentially, when you call something 'sexist', you are pointing a finger at something that you find immoral. When that sort of thing happens, I think people extrapolate the essence of the criticism beyond the game. People will think, "If the game is sexist, then that means the developers were," and, "If the game is sexist, are you calling me sexist for enjoying this game?" That line of thinking immediately puts people on the defensive, and they then spew out a bunch of nonsense.

Personally, I don't feel as though game developers should be under a moral obligation to include gender-progressive roles for female, or male characters. So long as a game isn't propagating backwards gender roles, and the more "offensive" gender roles are fitting in the larger context of the game, I don't see an issue. Of course there will always be ridiculous things out there like 'Zombie Bait', something that doesn't fit within any larger context or add anything of value, which deserves to come under heavy scrutiny. The game industry if far from perfect, but so long as we handle discourse like this in a mature fashion, and acknowledge the context in which our criticisms come from, only good things will come.

Just like real life. We all have friends who say something or do something we don't agree with or even like, still doesn't stop them being a friend.... A dick perhaps, but shouldn't stop them being a friend...... Unless they drunk your pint. That's unforgivable.

I agree although skyrim does take place in a medieval like world so of course there's some sexism the fact that you can even play as a female character is already bizarre if you think about it.

Talking about sexism in Bethesda games fallout 3 has a quest where you basically drug a man to fall in love with a woman ruining his job at the local church the best part? You get good karma for doing so serious Bethesda wtf is wrong with you.

Also loved the doctor who reference if I could remember what it was.

That was glorious.

Though you were a bit unfair and biased about how "gamers" are arguing about Mass Effect and DMC for weeks, but "as soon as" someone brings up isms, they are trying to shut them down.

Wrong. There are ALWAYS some jerks who try to shut out other people's opinions, and there are always some people willing to discuss things. We had a whole GENRE of threads opened by people complain about how they are fed up up with Mass Effect threads and how pointless they are.

Haters gonna hate, in every topic. If you feel that everyone keeps hating on DMC and no one on sexism, you might very well just have a selective bias.

People don't seem to understand that not all stories are moral messages. Skyrim has a mission to abduct a priest into a cannibal cult and EAT him, this is not a "pro-cannibal" message. Like-wise the "slut-shaming" quest in skyrim is not "pro slut-shaming". Skyrim is a true RPG in that it gives you the option to be entirely unethical but lets you stop and do something else should you decide to.

Skyrim is a good example of one of the more gender equalised games on the market. The women (in the unmodded versions) are hardly sexualised and you find people of different genders in most professions.

BTW I'm not telling anyone to shut up, I'm disagreeing with you.

Jimothy Sterling:

Calibanbutcher:

Jimothy Sterling:

Aww, you don't have to feel like compensating for missing the point of my video. :)

So Jim, all this talk about "compensating"...
Are you trying to tell us something?

Yes.

Instead of a penis, I have a really small talking car between my legs. It sings at night.

.... Does it run on super unleaded?

Yeah I agree, I don't know how the hell this black or white, all or nothing mindset of where you're either for something completely or you're completely against it has gained so much traction these last few years. There is a middle ground you know. I mean the whole 'Girlfriend Mode' thing was incredibly stupid and short-sighted, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy Borderlands 2 as a whole does it?

And if you truly loved a series you should be the harshest critic of its shadier aspects as you don't want something like that repeated.

I agree with your ideas and opinions when it comes to games, but your opinions on movies? No way in hell.

I didn't realize that I was afraid of people taking away video games, I just thought all these things had a place contextually. Boy is my face red.

And movie defence force is not a "thing". It is a movement.

erttheking:

Calibanbutcher:

erttheking:
To be perfectly honest I think this website in general has made me more paranoid in general. I don't want to talk about racism sexism or homophobia in video games, Hell, I'm starting to reach the point where I don't want to talk about ANYTHING in video games because this website can be rather volatile.

YOU HAVE A VIDEOGAME AVATAR, HOW DARE YOU, YOU ARE CLEARLY RACIST, SEXIST, HOMOPHOBIC AND AN ATHEIST FUNDAMENTALIST AS WELL AS A CREATIONIST. TO THE TORCHES EVERYONE!!11!!!

On a related note:
I am getting weary of talking about anything related to gender, race, etc..., simply because I feel that I have heard most every argument already and that regurgitating them won't make them any fresher.

Yeah, I saw how long the thread was about the dead island torso and I didn't even want to touch it. It didn't help when I indirectly found out that mid debate, one poster had gotten suspended for posting a picture of a middle finger to a guy he was debating with, and saying that he didn't even care if he got suspended. I personally never really liked that poster, but it really does show how volatile this website can get at times.

I think I posted in one of these threads... Shame on me.
And why would anyone post the PICTURE of a middle finger? Did the poster lack the necessary vocabulary to adequately express the feelings he had towards the forum member that invoked his wrath?

That Skyrim example is a bit crap. Firstly because the game itself never states that a woman having sex with different men consecutively is wrong, secondly because the quest is given to you by a woman seeking to embarrass another into easing up on her in terms of workload rather than believing what she's doing to be wrong. Your point was solid, just conversely saying that being offended by something in a game, while fine in itself, does not inherently mean the problem is with the game.

I whole heartedly agree with you Jim. I don't know why some people get so defensive about small things like discussions on sex in games or other similar topics. People have different views on any given subject and could bring to light something you (the person reading this and not necessarily Jim) never thought of before. I mean I guess people are closed minded to certain things (and I do mean ALL people, not just a particular group) and just don't want to find any fault with something they care a lot about...

Did I just answer my own question?

Anyway, I think discussion of ideas should happen more than just "pick a side" debates that are very common.

Oh and I call bullshit on using screenshots of modded versions of skyrim to promote the sexism angle.

Predictable reply: Oh but this just proves that the community is sexist because they use mods.

yes but you were talking about the game design not the community.

I actually really agree with all of the points you raise in the video, but you are one massive hypocrite.
There are really obvious parallels between the ways you criticize gamers for behaving with regards to sexism and the way you and other gams jarnalists behave whenever anyone dares to imply that there could be any link, no matter how small between violent video games and aggression.

Personally, I loved Duke Nukem Forever. I can obviously understand why people would find it offensive, and I'll admit the strip club level bothered me a bit and was completely unneeded. To me, Duke Nukem is pretty much the South Park of games in the sense that it just trashes everything. Yeah, he is a sexist asshole, but how is that any different from some white trash racist in a movie or TV show?

Calibanbutcher:

erttheking:

Calibanbutcher:

YOU HAVE A VIDEOGAME AVATAR, HOW DARE YOU, YOU ARE CLEARLY RACIST, SEXIST, HOMOPHOBIC AND AN ATHEIST FUNDAMENTALIST AS WELL AS A CREATIONIST. TO THE TORCHES EVERYONE!!11!!!

On a related note:
I am getting weary of talking about anything related to gender, race, etc..., simply because I feel that I have heard most every argument already and that regurgitating them won't make them any fresher.

Yeah, I saw how long the thread was about the dead island torso and I didn't even want to touch it. It didn't help when I indirectly found out that mid debate, one poster had gotten suspended for posting a picture of a middle finger to a guy he was debating with, and saying that he didn't even care if he got suspended. I personally never really liked that poster, but it really does show how volatile this website can get at times.

I think I posted in one of these threads... Shame on me.
And why would anyone post the PICTURE of a middle finger? Did the poster lack the necessary vocabulary to adequately express the feelings he had towards the forum member that invoked his wrath?

I dunno. I only looked at his post, I didn't even know which side of the debate he was on, I bailed right after that. I don't mind debates, but frankly when the Escapist isn't talking about how much something sucks (That recent thread about which ME squad mate they hated the most was particularly stuffed with bile and cussing) we're having rage fueled debates on how someone in wrong for thinking a certain way (I recently got called a sheep for owning an Ipod) and really it seems like debating via yelling is all we ever do. I mean there's a time and a place for it, but it just feels like it goes on all the time and it just makes me feel weary. I just want to talk about video games without shouting and without saying what I hate about them every once in awhile.

I'm not sure that the concern is that games will be taken away. It's just that these things keep coming up lately.

In my case, I'm just tired of hearing about how sexist or misogynistic or racist or homophobic everything is. It seems like people will dig to find offense in any piece of media, even if it reflects cultural norms accurately, and I'm just kind of tired of it.

Like, the Dead Island bust, for example. Is it sexist or misogynistic? I don't think so. It's clearly in poor taste, but I don't think that the developers were making any sort of claim against women. It's just a stupid novelty bust that missed the mark of good taste by a pretty wide margin, but that was probably their goal.

We can all strive to be better personally, and I think that should include not getting worked up and finding an ism in everything.

Given the links and attitudes the wider population attributes to videogames, and what certain groups have historically ripped on videogames for, I would say that gamers are entirely justified in being paranoid. By the way Jim, those groups DO try to take our games away from us.

alphamalet:
I'm not so sure the issue with criticizing games triggers some reaction where people think their games will be taken away. Essentially, when you call something 'sexist', you are pointing a finger at something that you find immoral. When that sort of thing happens, I think people extrapolate the essence of the criticism beyond the game. People will think, "If the game sexist is, then that means the developers were," and, "If the game is sexist, are you calling me sexist for enjoying this game?" That line of thinking immediately puts people on the defensive, and they then spew out a bunch of nonsense.

I agree about that, that's why I try to use the "ism"-s restrictively. These should be about either authorial intent, or at least subconscious negative implications, not about coincidences and justifiable-in-context situations.

For example, a movie can fail the Bechdel test for being in an accurate historical scenario, for having a satirically sexist setting that it's message mocks, or even just by a coincidence. There is no point in calling either of them sexist.

BUT the fact that such an overwhelming majority of movies keep failing the Bechdel test while they would pass it's reverse, certainly tells us something about Hollywood's nagative treatment of women.

There is a lot more reason to worry about a game that appears to willingly enforce actual sexist stereotypes that are present in our society, than the ones where the characters are not "equal" in some arbitary way.

 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here