Escape to the Movies: Hansel & Gretel: Witch Hunters

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I think you have a point about the witch trails, but Django could also be offensive because the slaves were mistreated thus one man becomes a bounty hunter and takes his revenge out on those who've wronged him- so in this movie, the kids who were stuffed with candy and almost killed by a witch .. it would make sense for them to become witch hunters. Otherwise what would the movie really be about or what could we explore in the media without offending anyone?

Apart from that, I will skip this. Saw how many times the female protagonist gets beat and honestly, what the crap. Wanted a female protagonist to hold her ground but oh well. Least it's a movie that is made for the sake of fun, gore, and trying something somewhat new.

erttheking:
It really baffles me what with everything that happened in the new Star Trek (which I liked) for some reason people only give a damn about the freaking lens flare.

I agree. I barely even notice lens flares, but maybe thats just me. When I do its not a big deal either. I just don't get how anyone could get so worked up about them. On a similar note, I don't get why they are used so much if it pisses people off as much as it does.

I find J.J. to be a competent director. I liked the new Star Trek a lot and Fringe is an amazing show.

So it's kind of like they took a pretty cool DevianaArt image and made it into a movie.

Andrew Siribohdi:
Bob, I've been watching your videos a long time but even I'm confused by the link you have between witch hunts and this movie.

Well, the clue is in the title, you know?

Aiddon:
I also wonder if the writer got dumped by a woman in the past and now he's taking it out on the women in this movie

I think you'd have to be dumped by more than one woman (let's say... all the ones you've ever been out with) to develop that kind of psychosexual view. What's more, complications concerning romantic relationships can also make for very good writing, such as the newer work of Edgar Allan Poe.

anthony87:
So fighting witches is misogynist now?

No, of course not. But to Bob's credit, he's right that you should always remember the context of a story. Otherwise you risk setting a precedent for films being liberal with historic events to the degree that propaganda films glorify war and excuse human suffering.

Yep, I knew it. Someone suggests something might be a bit misogynist, and the wagons are circled and everyone shouts him down.

Like friggin' CLOCKWORK.

McMarbles:
Yep, I knew it. Someone suggests something might be a bit misogynist, and the wagons are circled and everyone shouts him down.

Like friggin' CLOCKWORK.

So what? People shouldn't point out when someone is wrong?

Farther than stars:

anthony87:
So fighting witches is misogynist now?

No, of course not. But to Bob's credit, he's right that you should always remember the context of a story. Otherwise you risk setting a precedent for films being liberal with historic events to the degree that propaganda films glorify war and excuse human suffering.

If Bob did remember the context of the story (which he clearly doesn't) he would never have brought up that witch hunt/trial bullshit, especially when, in the movie, the trials/hunts are portrayed in a negative light.

i really enjoyed abrams star trek (though to be fair, i was never a huge fan of the tv show) and super 8 was fantastic until the final act. say what you will about the lost ending (im still baffled by the amount of people who thought the ending was stating that everything that happened on the island wasnt real) but that was by far my favorite non-animated tv show ever. i dont care about lens flare, i love abrams and while he wouldnt be my first choice for a star wars movie, im rational enough to reserve my judgement

StriderShinryu:

Sartan0:
I actually just got out of seeing H&G and I must say I went in with next to zero expectations and I loved it.

If you don't like gore don't see it. Otherwise give it a go. I found it to be a good ride and it did not over stay it's welcome. I got a Buffy vibe from it and the weaponry was really over the top. It was funny as well.

Excellent to hear. That's the sort of thing I was hoping for when I started seeing the trailers around.

BTW, awesome avatar. :)

Thanks! I made it myself years ago from an image from the old tick episode guide website.

McMarbles:
Yep, I knew it. Someone suggests something might be a bit misogynist, and the wagons are circled and everyone shouts him down.

Like friggin' CLOCKWORK.

They are pointing out the witches in the context of the movie are just as powerful and taking part in the same amount of physical combat as any male monster would battling the protagonist in any other monster flick. It's not about their gender, which should be seen as fuckin progress because they aren't being treated any less seriously or as being less powerful for being female characters like in other movies.

It's looking for a problem where there isn't one... other than movie being just plain bad.

I was annoyed by MovieBob returning over and over in this review to the "women get punched in the face a lot, so its mysoginist" argument. I've seen plenty of movies entirely focused around men getting punched in the face, nonstop, by everybody. Nobody ever screamed "misandrist!".

Copper Zen:

Gilhelmi:

??? *thinking**thinking****thinking*

Yes, took me a minute to get that reference, your right. They did add more weight to the "interrogation" device until the person confessed to witchcraft. Everyone confessed eventually.

Giles Corey is the man you're thinking of.

No, he never confessed. He died. "More weight" were his last words.

That's why he's remembered while so many others aren't. He never broke and "confessed" just to escape the torture.

Ohh, Thank you. I never knew the origin of the phrase "More Weight".

It was a good read.

Father Time:

Gilhelmi:

Andrew Siribohdi:
Bob, I've been watching your videos a long time but even I'm confused by the link you have between witch hunts and this movie.

Have you heard of the Salome Witch Trials?

Long story short. In Salome, Massachusetts in the 17th (or 18th, I forget) century essencally rounded up all the women who acted differently the the State thought they should, tried them in a kangaroo court with evidence that would convict anyone breathing of being a witch, and then executed them.

It is still a sensitive subject around some people I know.

It's Salem not Salome and the motivations for the witch hunts aren't that simple. Hell it wasn't even the state doing most of the accusations anyway, it was regular townspeople. Some of it might've been for politics (and not in the "I need to kill everyone who disagrees with me" kind of way) and some of it was other personal vendettas.

I never could spell well. Though I agree, Life is never as simple as we make it.

I do know that many of the 'judges', later admitted that there was no evidence against the people accused. One even had remorse for what they did. So there was some "Mob" mentality there too, attacking because the group was attacking.

Really with the witch hunt thing? I'm sure it's been discussed to death already, but that's about as silly as going after Ring Around the Rosie for being offensive to people who have had to deal with medical epidemics.

Nice to see I'm not the only one unimpressed by Abrams. I've never even heard of the guy and checking his resume... well "I'm not impressed" would be a kind way to put it. I've never watched Lost, though my friends tell me it was a really badly designed show, despite its success. And even if it's good and Fringe is as good as IMDB says it is, I see more TV shows under this guy's belt that he could brag with than movies (turning Star Wars into an episodic experience, hurray x.x). Mission Impossible ain't exactly a compliment, Cloverfield doesn't ring fond memories and Super 8 I never watched, it seemingly being something completely forgettable anyway (and all the good parts of the movie that I've read about seem to mostly come from Spielberg).

Oh and yeah, Hansel and Gretel... figured it was a one-joke movie, you can even see it in the trailers. Not sure who their target audience is - kids can't see it cause of violence, teens will think Hansel and Gretel are stupid and adults... well, will have more brains than to watch this I hope.

I went to see this movie because anytime he semi-forces feminism, it almost always doesn't make sense. Granted that feminism is a great idea, it just that it draws a line between equality. ANYWAYS. I don't understand how gretel being nursed back to health removed the badass in her. She was nursed by a man the first time, which i assume is the opposite of the common nursing scene. The second time she was nursed by someone who swore loyalty to her. Also something i hear doesn't happen a lot. Forgive me if im looking to much into this, as it seems you did, but i really think you pulled most of this out of your ass. In fact every women fought for themselves and no one else. IF there is anything to take from this movie about women, is that we should just drop whatever you have assumed about anyone and work together to stop asshole that drive the idiot masses (like the sheriff).

BTW best part about this was the fact he is starting a witch hunt on a movie about witch hunts. Glasses houses man.

Anyways just go see it. On a Tuesday or something. it was a fun watch

erttheking:
It really baffles me what with everything that happened in the new Star Trek (which I liked) for some reason people only give a damn about the freaking lens flare.

And the only vibe I get from that complaint Moviebob is that you should always make the villain a white man to avoid unfortunate implications. Screw that.

What about the fact that the NEW Star Trek looks like it will have significantly toned down lens flare? Why must people keep holding former mistakes against this guy when he's obviously taking criticism to heart, or the people who are signing his paychecks are telling him to tone it down? Does everyone just think he'll go crazy with Star Wars, despite all that?

As to the actual movie this review is about, I wasn't expecting a whole lot in the first place.

It's always bugged me, Bob. They constantly do this to witches in movies, making them either truly cursed, or just plain evil so the "heroic" hunters can come in and save the day. Not only has it always bugged me, but this is far, FAR from the first film to talk about in that context.

Christianity has a deathgrip on a large portion of the "must be entertained" segment of society, and one thing that is entertaining to a portion of them(and by no means do I mean all, please don't think I'm calling anyone specific this kind of person) is suggesting that the church never has, and never will make mistakes. Criticized for the mass slaughter of people(mostly women) who think differently? They really WERE witches.

With all that said, this movie is just plain too stupid to have that kind of intellectual debate over. This movie is kind of a "joke" to begin with, and the parity on witches is less about young pagan, or goddess worshipers getting wrongfully persecuted, and more about the faerie tale characters coming to life and growing up to kill those things which tried to eat them. I can't actually attack this movie on that front because of context.

Context.

William Greeson:

Christianity has a deathgrip on a large portion of the "must be entertained" segment of society, and one thing that is entertaining to a portion of them(and by no means do I mean all, please don't think I'm calling anyone specific this kind of person) is suggesting that the church never has, and never will make mistakes. Criticized for the mass slaughter of people(mostly women) who think differently? They really WERE witches.

Context.

Sorry, but BULLSHIT. If there is somebody who thinks that the church can't make mistakes it certainly is not the modern day Christian church, one of the last masses I went to was about looking back on mistakes, including the churches, not to mention the pope acknowledged mistakes in the past and apologised for things that he personally had no control over, like the residential schools.

If you are referring to a small group of religious people though then disregard everything I said.
I'm also a little surprised you forgot about the good witches in the movie, another thing that gets me about the movie is religion never comes into play in it, you said it yourself, context, why did Hansel and Gretel kill their first witch? Self defence, their second? To protect others, after a while they made it their job, why did the sheriff want to kill anyone who might be a witch? Because witches were kidnapping their children, in fact I don't remember a single cross or priest, in the context of the movie, religion should not be an issue.

Was on the fence about this film, premise seemed okay, will give it a miss and rent it methinks.

As for the Abrams stuff about Star Wars/Trek, I think he'll do okay. Trek 09 was not the smartest film, but it was a decent shot at re-introducing the series to a new audience. I'm part of the old audience and I was okay with it, yes the lens flares were a bit much and the plot was silly, but now that he has the silliness out the way, maybe we'll get a smarter, better Trek. Since he's hooked people after the first one, judging by the trailer, lens flares are down, so maybe he listened about that.

In short, give the man another shot, not many get something as huge as Trek right the first go, if you don't like it after this one, then it definitely isn't for you.

It's like the Transformers films, I wasn't all that impressed with the first one, saw the second and hated that. So I didn't bother with the third and won't bother with any after that either.

Oh no! Lens flare. Saga. RUINED!

Warachia:

Farther than stars:

anthony87:
So fighting witches is misogynist now?

No, of course not. But to Bob's credit, he's right that you should always remember the context of a story. Otherwise you risk setting a precedent for films being liberal with historic events to the degree that propaganda films glorify war and excuse human suffering.

If Bob did remember the context of the story (which he clearly doesn't) he would never have brought up that witch hunt/trial bullshit, especially when, in the movie, the trials/hunts are portrayed in a negative light.

I mean context in the sense of how those stories came about. And it's true that associating witches with fear is a feeling conjured up by medieval prejudices against individualistic women.

I pretty much agree with Bob here. I am going to give this movie a miss, mainly because I find the idea of watching a movie that glorifies women being killed and beaten up (under the thin veneer that "it's okay because we make them evil") gives me the absolute creeps.

Gotta say, I'm starting to disagree with Bob more and more recently. Genuinely excited to gear about J.J. Abrams being the new Star Wars director and also not feeling squicked out by the apparent 'misogyny' of Hansel and Gretel.

Darken12:
I pretty much agree with Bob here. I am going to give this movie a miss, mainly because I find the idea of watching a movie that glorifies women being killed and beaten up (under the thin veneer that "it's okay because we make them evil") gives me the absolute creeps.

So what you are saying is women are too weak? fragile? to get beaten up in movies, while men are ok to beat up in movies and have it glorified because... its is ok to beat up men?

So much for equality folks!

Apparently I was the only one who got weirded out by Bob pronouncing Gemma with a hard 'G'.

It should be soft like a 'J'...

DVS BSTrD:
You can be damn sure I remember the Brothers Grimm Movie Bob.
I'm pretty sure everyone remembers what the real witch hunts were like Bob, but I don't think anyone really cares in this film's context. I mean, it's not like anyone was going to this movie expecting the Spanish Inquisition.

EDIT: I know I'm supposed to write something so the post won't be erased but it's hard to do so when your post is a joke and you just told the punchline.

FelixG:

Darken12:
I pretty much agree with Bob here. I am going to give this movie a miss, mainly because I find the idea of watching a movie that glorifies women being killed and beaten up (under the thin veneer that "it's okay because we make them evil") gives me the absolute creeps.

So what you are saying is women are too weak? fragile? to get beaten up in movies, while men are ok to beat up in movies and have it glorified because... its is ok to beat up men?

So much for equality folks!

I don't like movies that glorify beating up or killing people, period. I find them distasteful. I don't get an erection or an endorphins rush from watching glorified violence on screen. But it's extra creepy when a movie made primarily by men in a society where sexism still exists is all about beating the shit out of women, and it gets even creepier when the paper-thin context we're given is based on real-life events from our history that were used to perpetuate violence against women by a misogynistic patriarchy.

Johnny Novgorod:

DVS BSTrD:
You can be damn sure I remember the Brothers Grimm Movie Bob.
I'm pretty sure everyone remembers what the real witch hunts were like Bob, but I don't think anyone really cares in this film's context. I mean, it's not like anyone was going to this movie expecting the Spanish Inquisition.

Might want to edit your post to include an actual post instead of just a video before the mods jump you and slap you with a warning.

Darken12:

FelixG:

Darken12:
I pretty much agree with Bob here. I am going to give this movie a miss, mainly because I find the idea of watching a movie that glorifies women being killed and beaten up (under the thin veneer that "it's okay because we make them evil") gives me the absolute creeps.

So what you are saying is women are too weak? fragile? to get beaten up in movies, while men are ok to beat up in movies and have it glorified because... its is ok to beat up men?

So much for equality folks!

I don't like movies that glorify beating up or killing people, period. I find them distasteful. I don't get an erection or an endorphins rush from watching glorified violence on screen. But it's extra creepy when a movie made primarily by men in a society where sexism still exists is all about beating the shit out of women, and it gets even creepier when the paper-thin context we're given is based on real-life events from our history that were used to perpetuate violence against women by a misogynistic patriarchy.

How is it extra creepy? So sexism exists, big whoop, does that mean for some reason we shouldnt look at women and scoff and say "Psht, they could NEVER be a threat!" Because that just sounds like sexism to me. And as has been pointed out earlier, men were also gone after in witch trials.

But so what if it is (very loosely) based on something that happened a while ago? Just because a movie uses (loosely) some themes from it doesnt mean that people are making light of it or belittling it.

I suppose Games Workshop is also OMG SEXIST because they have a faction of inquisition and witch hunters in Warhammer?

FelixG:
How is it extra creepy? So sexism exists, big whoop, does that mean for some reason we shouldnt look at women and scoff and say "Psht, they could NEVER be a threat!" Because that just sounds like sexism to me. And as has been pointed out earlier, men were also gone after in witch trials.

There is a difference between "women as equals to men in a combat role" and "an army composed almost entirely of women whose main purpose is to be beaten up and killed for the camera." I heard that argument before when people defended the Hitman trailer. Just because a woman fights back while the male main character beats the shit out of her doesn't mean the camera slowing down so that you can see every bone and cartilage in her nose breaking isn't glorifying violence against her.

The problem isn't a single fact. It's a culmination of them. That the witches are ALL (or almost all) women, that the main character is male (and that his female sidekick, according to Bob, gets beaten up and nursed back to health by a male twice, and experiences more violence than her male counterpart), and that the movie glorifies the main character enacting violence on his targets (and that most, if not all of his characters end up being women), all of this builds up to a feeling of sexism. That this was made by and for men doesn't help matters at all.

And just because a tiny minority of men also got caught up in the violence of the witch hunts doesn't mean it wasn't primarily aimed at women (particularly independent, single women who were seen as threat by the patriarchy).

FelixG:
But so what if it is (very loosely) based on something that happened a while ago? Just because a movie uses (loosely) some themes from it doesnt mean that people are making light of it or belittling it.

Perhaps a few examples can help you understand better:

WWII era, Nazi protagonists, all the Jewish people are evil vampires.
Slavery era, white protagonists, all the people of colour are evil werewolves.
1482, straight protagonists, all the LGBT people are evil daemons (that must be killed with fire!).

Truly, all these "loosely based" movie ideas are not glorifying effecting violence on any oppressed group at all. Of course not. You cannot possibly see how any of this can be offensive to anybody.

FelixG:
I suppose Games Workshop is also OMG SEXIST because they have a faction of inquisition and witch hunters in Warhammer?

Depends on whether the witches are all-female (or mostly female) or not. If "witch" is a gender-neutral term, then it's not glorifying gender violence, it's just using witch hunting for cheap imagery.

[obligatory lens flair joker]

i am not sure how i feel about movies like Hansel and Gretel or that little red riding hood meets a werewolf movie. these are stories my gran told me when i was a child and refused to sleep. now it's like Michael bay kicked in my bedroom door, took the book from grandma, and started to read it in his own overly violent way.

EDIT: And that snow white movie with K Stew. that too was a part of my childhood turned in to a (somewhat) action movie

I am trying to think of a steampunk movie that did well boxofficewise and having trouble. Van Helsing didn't, although it had Jackman and a Beckinsale going for it, the Brothers Grimm didn't succeed, although it also had an attractive cast going for it and the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen didn't perform either, although they had Sean Connery going for it (two of those three are based on comic books, which is no coincidence).

Why is Hollywood still trying to exploit the steampunk potential with one dimensional movies? They are all one-gag-movies that showcase all they have going from the trailer. The weapons look cool, the retromodern world is nice, but they are usually lacking in depth of story and ambition.

If a leather clad Beckinsale at the prime of her popularity couldn't sell the premise, if Terry Gilliam couldn't sell the premise (although I personally enjoyed both of those movies, including the "League", instead of their wasted potential), then it is more than obvious that nobody is buying.

Darken12:

Perhaps a few examples can help you understand better:

WWII era, Nazi protagonists, all the Jewish people are evil vampires.
Slavery era, white protagonists, all the people of colour are evil werewolves.
1482, straight protagonists, all the LGBT people are evil daemons (that must be killed with fire!).

Truly, all these "loosely based" movie ideas are not glorifying effecting violence on any oppressed group at all. Of course not. You cannot possibly see how any of this can be offensive to anybody.

The key difference being that vampires aren't inextricably linked with Judaism, werewolves aren't inextricably linked with black people and/or slavery, and daemons aren't inextricably linked with a medieval concept of Sodomites.

And that really is the crux of the argument here. No matter how distasteful you may find it, witchcraft in modern culture is overwhelming associated with the female gender. I don't think I need to list examples.

Now, the film may well still prove to be misogynistic, I'm not ruling out that eventuality. However, I firmly believe that it's a mistake to make such an assertion on the grounds that the antagonists are female witches.

Xelanath:
The key difference being that vampires aren't inextricably linked with Judaism, werewolves aren't inextricably linked with black people and/or slavery, and daemons aren't inextricably linked with a medieval concept of Sodomites.

And that really is the crux of the argument here. No matter how distasteful you may find it, witchcraft in modern culture is overwhelming associated with the female gender. I don't think I need to list examples.

Now, the film may well still prove to be misogynistic, I'm not ruling out that eventuality. However, I firmly believe that it's a mistake to make such an assertion on the grounds that the antagonists are female witches.

That's not an excuse, you know. The reason witchcraft has been associated with the female gender is due to the patriarchy seeking to control women and then women clinging on to the idea of witchcraft as one of the scant ways to feel empowered in a patriarchal society. Reinforcing the idea that A) witches are all (or mostly) women and B) that they are evil and deserve to be killed, reinforces the patriarchy's lies that caused the death of so many innocents in the past. A movie about beating the shit out of evil witches is glorifying and validating the crimes committed by powerful men against women who couldn't fight back.

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