Zero Punctuation: DMC: Devil May Cry

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major_chaos:

shrekfan246:
the writing and story are just as good as any of previous games and better than at least two of them.

Except I'm fairly sure the last two games weren't written by a 12 year old who just discovered the word "fuck" and an obsession with emo melodrama, nor was Dante so utterly obsessed with being "cool" in that unique way that just make you come across like a massive twat. I have heard plenty of people complain about games being dumbed down to appeal to the shooter bro crowd, but this is the first time I have seen a franchise dumbed down just to appeal to the 15 year hot topic dweller crowd.
(disclaimer: basically never played old or new DMC all this is based off watching other people play, and the fact that 10 minutes of playing DMC4 didn't make me want to kill the protagonist, while the DmC demo sure did).

OT: Gameplay looks fun if way to easy, but I refuse to buy a game where the PC looks and acts like he was formed from some kind of liquid emo that was scraped off the floor of a HotTopic.

Yeah, it was pretty obvious you haven't played it without you saying it. Are you sure the videos you watched were actually DMC, or were they some random game with the wrong title? Because old Dante was exactly all those things you said makes the new one bad. Some of them, even more so than the new one. Old Dante appeals way more to teenage power fantasies, and his clothing was a lot more stupid.

So was that a positive review or not? Yahtzee seemed to praise quite a lot of the game's elements which is usually a sign that the game has at least some redeeming value and a lot of the complaints were nitpicky things like "I can't master the intricacies of the combat system", but his final issue with the difficulty seems to be a bit of a deal-breaker, considering that the original DMC was hard and DMC 3 was the game that tore off my skin and made it into an Arcane-suit. That's a pretty big complaint.

Then again, I don't really care anyway, since I won't be buying this game. I never beat DMC 3 so I've never really had the urge to pick up any more sequels. I'll get there some day (FUCKIN' AGNI AND RUDRA!).

Mcoffey:
Probably the best Hack N' Slash I've played in a good long while. I had pretty much given up on the genre after the snore fest that was Darksiders and Bayonetta.

No offense, but the best hack N' Slash? Were you looking for something that would reward you with the highest score just for pressing attack repeatedly without any effort or concentration needed? Again, not trying to offend, but I am really trying to discern how you judge that genre of games. If it is a relaxation thing, I can understand. I like Contra for it's brutal difficulty, but sometimes I just like to unwind and pop in Metal Slug instead.

Sheo_Dagana:
I guess I'll never understand why people complain when a sequel/reboot is not 100% like their favorite installment, but maybe that's because I play too many games to care.

You might be surprised to realize people don't hate on things just because they're new. I don't mind change; I didn't dislike the characters because they were different (they could have been turned into cartoon rabbits for all I care), I disliked them because they were awful. The game play wasn't bad because it was new, it was bad because it was lacking. The level design wasn't bad because it was new, it was bad because it was boring (in structure; it's actual appearance was beautiful). The boss fights weren't bad because they were new, they were bad because the tension level was 0. Some people like to be excited when playing a game.

To say something is good just because it's new is an even shakier platform to stand on then the people who hate things just because a series went in a different direction.

shrekfan246:

Polite Sage:

Mcoffey:
If this is how you "ruin" things, Ninja Theory, do you think you could "ruin" some other franchises?

It's quite funny how all reviewers and DmC defenders compare the new title to the old and dated game instead of it's vastly more challenging and fast-paced sequels (namely 3 and 4, 2 is absolute dogshit) and feel like they can weigh in on the subject.

3 is slow and clunky as hell. Dante moves slower, the combat is much slower paced, and the camera angles have a way of hiding enemies from you until they streak in to attack you. I know this because I tried playing it again alongside DmC over the past few days. Switching between weapons is awkward, chaining combos is slow and easily screwed up, and while getting "SSS" ranked combos is more difficult, part of that is because half of the time you end up half the screen away from an enemy with no way of closing the distance before your style meter has gone down. The boss fights are a lot better though, I'll give it that.

4 is a lot better, and arguably the only one I'd say compares on a gameplay level, but purely from a pacing perspective the game plays slower still than the newest one. Not that that's a bad thing, but it doesn't keep the adrenaline pumping nearly as effectively. And while the gameplay is the best of the four original titles and keeping up stylistic combos is easier and more fun because Nero has the Demon Grab and Dante has a lot more maneuverability overall, it stumbles drunkenly over the level design and makes the second half of the game backtracking through the first half of the game.

I've been a fan of Devil May Cry for a long time. You're damn right I feel like I can weigh in on the subject.

Slow? Were you walking? Just about every weapon has dash, let alone any number of ways to get around the fight. Switching weapons is awkward? You mean "Press the Left Trigger" is too complex? Combos get screwed up because the AI has a brain, a novel concept that NT seemed to have missed. Getting to enemies to chain your combos? Every weapon has a dash, and the guns extend your combo slightly.

The "Fanboys" have a lot more to complain about then the fucking hair. Story is what happened when a 4chan junkie thought his Devil May Cry fan fiction was grade A material (Insulting even by the series standards), combat is painfully easy even on the highest difficulty, bosses are a colossal joke, and the level aesthetics are just there to pad out the length of the game.

I still think the only thing this game did well was divide the fanbase to a degree that's only detrimental to the franchise (and the DMC community, now that half of them hate each other.) Love or hate the game, there was no chance it was going to sell as well as it was predicted.

Polite Sage:
[
Yes. Because perfectly valid criticism is your definition of "childish" and "zealous".
And what the hell are with the comments essentially telling "DMC was never a good series to begin with, so DmC is completely excused even if it's a shitty reboot"?

It is kinda funny how people try to deflect criticism away from this game by either.

A) Saying the old series was shitty, as if that somehow eliminates the fact that what NT farted out was average at best. Plus say what you will about Dante, Nero, Lady, and Trish's adventures, they were never pretentious.

or B) Play critics up as strawmen, usually by oversimplifying arguments or bringing up facts that have been irrelevant for awhile (like people are only pissed because of the hair). Funnily enough, this strawman strategy is also used by one of the villains in the game in order to demonize Dante.

When these are the only tools you have left, you should probably reevaluate things. As it stands this game is just going to be forgotten in a month anyway when bigger games like Dead Space 3 and Metal Gear Rising roll around.

Never cared for Devil May Cry so I don't really care about this reboot.

Sylveria:
...cause that's what a 12yr old thinks is cool.

Was that not just DMC in a nutshell?

I mean, let's not pretend that Dante looking like a hot-topic-reject-circa-2000 was any better. Now he just sort of looks like a hot-topic-reject-circa-now.

Draconalis:
I want to burn every copy of this game for nothing more than "He's the product of a demon and angel"

Sounds like it could be one of those terrible paranormal romance novels written by Twilight obsessed girls who still don't know that Stephanie Meyer is a terrible author. Come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised if there was already one written....No..No...I really don't want to know it's name. Though I do admit every time I go to Barnes and Nobles I go straight to that section and read the synopsis's for a good laugh.

Sheo_Dagana:

Devil May Cry 4: Okay

This is why I think that a reboot was needed, I honestly couldn't see the series going anywhere after Devil May Cry 4. Sure it was a good game but it really wasn't well designed, the backtracking, the repeat boss fights, those fucking dice rooms, Nero in general, hell even Dante was just Dante from Devil May Cry 3 again with some added stubble and a watered down Dark Slayer style chucked in. Then there's the mess of questions and plot holes that we're left with by the end...

Yes, you can never get enough stabs at Fox News in, no matter how much "The Daily Show" you watch. :)

For me the Devil May Cry series has always been a perfect mix of both style and substance. As such, the biggest problem I to have with DMC is that it seems to favor style over substance. Still, the first Devil May Cry is one of my earlist and fondest PS2 memories, so I'm probably going to check this out at some point.

crimson sickle2:
The amount of Ninja Theory's ego in this game is enough reason for me to burn as many copies as I can. I'm kind of surprised Yahtzee gave it a thumbs up, guess he saw something I didn't. I thought for sure he would rag on enemy design or fixed grapple points.

It's a decent generic hack-and-slasher title.
Which means that, in terms of Ninja Theory's competence with combat mechanics, means its an amazing NT hack-and-slasher title.

It's still a shitty DMC title though. And Ninja theory and Capcom didn't do themselves any favors in arguing against the whole "Capcom only wanted a new looking Dante to sell the old look as DLC" theory, when not even a couple weeks later Capcom is shilling out DLC that does PRECISELY that!

Also, anyone seen AngryJoe's review? Its beginning bit almost horrified me as, seeing I hadn't played the game proper beyond the Demo at the moment, almost had me fooled into thinking that WAS the opening of the game. I mean, the guy certainly looked like New Dante.

As far as personality is concerned, I could see the new Dante maturing into the Dante of 1 or 4 better than the Dante of 3. He was immature, full of himself, swore a lot, and reckless in DMC, but he wasn't the clown with no personality that did a bunch of overtly long cringe-worthy stunts in cut-scenes. He is rightfully immature. He still has the ego, the taunts, and the combat prowess of his predecessors.

As far as the game goes, the wealth of options in fighting is nice. The style system stacks points rather easily and allows your combos to hang for 5 seconds before deciding they ended. But there doesn't seem to be much reason for the style system in this DMC anyway. The difficulty is lower, but considering Ninja Theory's past ventures, it's surprisingly palatable.

Pros
The camera is always on key, every attack flows smoothly (first time ninja theory made a good combat system), ordinary enemies aren't as immobile as the ones in DMC4 in its default difficulties, the environments are nice, the character is highly mobile, every weapon pays off nicely, and the upgrade system is a lovely change over past DMC games allowing trial-and-error while no longer punishing you for upgrading. May I also note that it's the first DMC game with a good fist weapon?

Cons
Story (one of Ninja Theory's strong-points) isn't as good as their past ventures; the yellow revive orbs (Extra Lives) are archaic; the point system is silly; the game doesn't penalize you enough in the default difficulties; there weren't enough bosses; and enemies do nothing when you can't see them (a far cry from the tell-tale noises and flashes that were done off-screen in DMC 3.)

Overall, I thought it was rather good as an entry-point to a series..

Second World:
Story (one of Ninja Theory's strong-points)

You do realise they hired outside writers to write both Heavenly Sword and Enslaved? Rhianna Pratchett, who wrote Heavenly Sword supposedly had to rewrite the majority of the script, and Alex Garland who wrote Enslaved had to rewrite their characterisation of Monkey. Both commented on Ninja Theory's writing "capabilities".

DmC is the first actual game handled by their in house writers. Guess twice why the "deep, satiric social commentary" in their newest title is so horribly ham-fisted and sounds like it's written by an emo middle schooler.

ForgottenPr0digy:
OMD Yahtzee actually liked a DMC game I should go look out my window and see if the world is on fire.

Well if your in Australia like Yahtzee in the world would more likely be underwater than on fire.

Since nobody has mentioned this yet, I might as well.

image

Nice directing, Tameem.

General Twinkletoes:
and his clothing was a lot more stupid.

I would disagree simply because I have met insufferable morons people who actually dress like new Dante and think they are super badass looking (Which is admittedly a big part of why I find him so loathsome), I don't think anyone outside of an Anime convention ever tried to dress like old Dante. Second I'm fairly sure that old DMC didn't have the "swearing makes you kewl" problem nearly as bad because the older titles don't have the "strong langue" ESRB descriptor, also I don't think I ever saw a clip of DMC4 that had a conversation this horribly stupid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg18aG53nlU (conversation I'm talking about goes for the first 38 seconds. "I got a bigger dick" really? what are you 13?)

I must be the only one who finds this iteration harder. I beat the first 3 games on every difficulty, but I feel like I won't be able to do so with this one. Maybe I'm just getting old.

Pretty much everything I have heard fans say about this game boils down to "Well, it's a perfectly fine game...BUT HOW DARE THEY DO THAT TO DEVIL MAY CRY!!!"

People seem to just be mad that it's called Devil May Cry rather than have any real problems with the game itself.

Given all the negative stuff Yahtzee had to say about DMC4, apparently something is moving in the right direction if this game got the fairly positive video that it did here.

I don't understand why everyone keeps saying this game is too easy; DMC isn't as hard as the other Devil May Cry games, but that's not saying much, it's still hard, and it has a difficulty setting.

I could understand Yahtzee's complaints about difficulty if he turned the difficulty up as high as it would go and still found it unchallenging, but it sounds like he was playing on easy; I'm not even sure it's possible to end the later encounters of the game with an S rating using only Rebellion, most late encounters you can't even SURVIVE only using Rebellion.

I mean, the game flat out asks you if you would prefer it was more difficult, and people are upset because it did what they asked?

The_Merchant:

Saika Renegade:
Whilst I am not the target audience of the original Devil May Cry or this reboot, I can understand the frustration of having a game series feel like it's lost its sense of challenge. That aside, I also have a new favorite euphemism now.

Except that DMD in this one is still piss easy. DMD used to tear you into shreds if you were to make one mistake or 2 in DMC1,3 and 4. It's like they give you more enemies with higher HP so you can farm even more points with the utterly broken style ranking system.

Also if the game rewards you with an S in the category ''Number of times died'' with the number being 2, you know that the game has been casualified down right to the core.

I"m not quite sure what you're getting at by quoting me here; as I said, I understand what it feels like to have a series that started challenging feeling considerably less so. In a way, mainstream FPSes have felt this way to me to an extent: major shootouts feel more frustrating than tense right now, for instance.

As far as whatever difficulty Devil May Cry, new or old, may have had, the only thing I have for comparison by experience is God Hand, and I'm not exaggerating to claim that it was a game that was unashamed to kill you with every other encounter (I'm pretty sure 2 deaths would have merited an A or even an S there).

major_chaos:

General Twinkletoes:
and his clothing was a lot more stupid.

I would disagree simply because I have met insufferable morons people who actually dress like new Dante and think they are super badass looking (Which is admittedly a big part of why I find him so loathsome), I don't think anyone outside of an Anime convention ever tried to dress like old Dante.

Fuck, if I had a millionth of Dante's mad charisma I'd dress like him every day.

I'll say to DMC Devil May Cry what I say to all other games that try to have a "social message":

If you're going to rip off 1984, try not to suck at it.

Praising garbage, are we, Yahtzee?

You're losing your touch. This game is a blasphemous abomination unto its parent franchise. I'm surprised you didn't mention Donte looks like Ninja Theory's CEO or whoever.

He recommended the game? Well he must have gone insane considering how undeniably awful this game must be. You know, because all gamers are so fucking rational and everything they say should be taken at face value.

I don't understand why so many people are foaming at the mouth because they changed the story and the characters. It's considered a reboot for a reason. What were you expecting? The same game as the original with better graphics?

Wow that want as bad as I expected, I might actually try this one out

Cid SilverWing:
Praising garbage, are we, Yahtzee?

You're losing your touch. This game is a blasphemous abomination unto its parent franchise. I'm surprised you didn't mention Donte looks like Ninja Theory's CEO or whoever.

sure.....yahtzees opinion is Clearly wrong because fan-logic

xPixelatedx:
To say something is good just because it's new is an even shakier platform to stand on then the people who hate things just because a series went in a different direction.

Which isn't really what I was saying at all. Metroid: Other M took the franchise in a different direction and was awful. Feel free to dislike the game because all of the things you listed in your post were things you didn't enjoy, I wouldn't say your argument is invalid simply because I don't agree with you. My gripes lie with people that simply hate the game because it is not Devil May Cry 3.5. This is not a problem limited to this particular series - see Dynasty Warriors or Call of Duty.

A game should be neither reviled nor propped up by it's name, although that is ultimately a hopeless wish. The game has to function on it's own. New directions/changes should never be discouraged, and are in fact how the original Devil May Cry came to life in the first place, but do not always yield fruitful results.

Some people say it's not about the hair, it's not about the character design.

Okay, so just imagine if this were the same game, but with Old Dante. At worst, people would say "meh, not the best in the series, but it's better than DmC 2". And that's it. But because the character changed, the same things cause a lot of RAAAAAGE. Maybe the "hardcore fans" have a point in their criticism (I haven't played the game), but the emphasis and vitriol would never get to this level if they didn't change some things people were used to.

So this gives me the impression that, in the end, it's actually all about the hair :)

DVS BSTrD:
Since we're big on acronyms, I wonder if the heros call themselves GROSS: Get Rid Of Slimy Succubi.

You win one free internet for remembering the BEST comic EVER!

OT: Good review as always. I look forward to next week

Wait!!! In the context Yahtzee used gravity in that sentence, would gravity be considered a law or a theory?

crimson sickle2:
The amount of Ninja Theory's ego in this game is enough reason for me to burn as many copies as I can. I'm kind of surprised Yahtzee gave it a thumbs up, guess he saw something I didn't. I thought for sure he would rag on enemy design or fixed grapple points.

Well, he's not a fanboy, so he can give a game a chance and play it, instead of advocate censorship.

Also, to everybody who liked the previous games: didn't Dante cuss like a sailor and act like a douchebag, too? This seems very faithful to that.

sumanoskae:
I don't understand why everyone keeps saying this game is too easy; DMC isn't as hard as the other Devil May Cry games, but that's not saying much, it's still hard, and it has a difficulty setting.

I could understand Yahtzee's complaints about difficulty if he turned the difficulty up as high as it would go and still found it unchallenging, but it sounds like he was playing on easy; I'm not even sure it's possible to end the later encounters of the game with an S rating using only Rebellion, most late encounters you can't even SURVIVE only using Rebellion.

I mean, the game flat out asks you if you would prefer it was more difficult, and people are upset because it did what they asked?

There are, like, 7 difficulty settings. I was...amazed.

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