No Right Answer: Videogame Franchise that Needs to Die the Most

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I think one of the major lessons from this thread should be, if you haven't played the most recent iteration in a series then you really have no place commenting on it's longevity.

Stop and think, "Did you even play it?".

Completely agreed. Look people, if you played the last few Sonic games and still don't think they were improvements, then fine, whatever. I have nothing against that. But I get the impression that most of the people still jumping on the "Sonic sucks" bandwagon are doing just that, without having played or researched anything concerning the more recent titles.

Gotta say though, I'm surprised to see that whenever articles or videos like this pop up on the internet anymore, there *are* more defenders then there used to be. If Sega can hit a couple more home runs, then I wonder if everyone else might start catching on?

I'd say Cod deserves to go more then Sonic, least Sonic team are still trying to make good games, who ever makes CoD just seems to copy/paste from last year

Chris would like to make it known that he both owned and loved Sonic Adventure 2 on the GameCube so much that he also bought the soundtrack and still listens to it to this very day because Shadow's theme is straight-up the sheezy, yo.

Also for the record, Chris would have made the debate The Legend of Zelda vs Final Fantasy, but he's restricted from debating such topic anymore and neither Kyle nor Dan could have made his sexy, sexy points the same way he would have.

Chris will now stop talking in third-person.

Sonic hasn't had a good game since the Dreamcast / gamecube / PS2 generation.

Call of Duty stumbles around, but its largely tapping a market that wouldn't be there otherwise, and at least tries to innovate. I mean, Blopity Boop 2 : This time the terrorists are from somewhere other than Russia and the Middle East is literally the biggest deal since COD:4, which was in itself a half decent game.

Sonic's not doing anything, and not going anywhere.

Eh, and for one out of left field, The Elder Scrolls needs to die. If ever there was a pretentious game posing as the quintessential gamer's game, its the most recent iterations of the franchise. At least COD never pretended to be that (well, sort of) and Sonic was always supposed to be for kids.

Where can I purchase this "Advanced Wardick" it seems useful.

Also, Sonic Adventure 2 was the only 3-D one I had fun with. I bought SA1 on Dreamcast, 2 on GC, Heroes and Colors (which my little sister played more than I did). SA2 had the Chao minigame, a decent enough story, and pretty good platformer mechanics with plenty of stuff you could easily make harder than it had to be...just like all good Sonic games.

Also, Sonic Adventure 2 had a great soundtrack courtesy of Crush 40.

Hey I LIKED Sonic Adventure 2!

Damn right you do, it's one of my all time favorites.

The question now becomes if they can make an actual, genuine, honest-to-god modern Sonic game with just the version we saw in the day stages of Unleashed or modern stages of Generations without something else slapped on it to try and change purely for the sake of change.

What makes this even more irritating is that the slump the series experienced from about 2002 to 2008/09-ish is greatly exaggerated. Did the series have a chronic case of the main series games having questionable quality ranging from mediocre to painful? Yes. But no one outside the fandom (hell even some people in it) seems to remember that during this six to seven year time period, five perfectly good handheld titles came out who's quality ranged from good (Sonic Advance 2) to great (Sonic Advance 3/Rush). Both the Advance Trilogy and the two Rush titles were masterfully crafted successors to the Genesis Era Sonic games. The Advance Trilogy is a true successor to the classic games, and for all of it's posturing, the first Sonic Advance is far more worthy of the title Sonic the Hedgehog 4 than the game that actually bears that name will ever be. The two Rush games were a wonderful breath of fresh air for the series, revamping the classic gameplay with a modern touch to create a very addicting play style that had me coming back to my DS for months.

Also as several have noted here Unleashed, Colors, and Generations have all come out over the last several years. Half of Unleashed was a perfectly good game and the other half was so okay it's average at worst. The werehog gets way more hate than it needs to. Colors was fantastic and Generations was nothing short of a masterpiece who's only real flaws were a annoying final boss and being too short. TL:DR, Sonic was never entirely bad and is indisputably good today. So quite your ignorant slander of a classic series making a serious turnaround.

Sonic Adventure 2 was a great game, maybe one of the best of Sonic.

I haven't played a Sonic game since Sonic and Knuckles, I'll admit it's hard to imagine sonic in a 3D world.

Eagerly awaiting Call of Duty 3: Modern Jackass 7: Advanced War Dick

My initial guess was Sonic vs. Megaman, then I realized that Megaman has been dead for a while now.

Sonic hasn't been good lately?
These games would like a word with you.

There's been plenty of great games to go along with the garbage that is the Shadow, Heroes,06 games. Though a lot of these seem to have been forgotten, especially the advance games. The third one actually doing a decent job of being a pseudo-sequel to Knuckles Chaotix.

But yes his series needs to die when platformers are somewhat rare vs the mounds of generic health regenerat-athons that is the FPS market. And this is coming from a guy who plays plenty of FPS games.

Mario. Unless they can fucking find another way to make "save the princess by jumping on these cloud platforms" without making what's basically an entirely different game, they should give it a rest. At least restrict themselves to one new Mario title every few years - just to curb the nostalgia, and take advantage of new (*snigger*) developments.

Lucky Godzilla:
You know, as long as people continue to buy and enjoy games, I see absolutely no reason for "killing" a franchise. The sole exception is probably Sonic due to the fact that they have deviated so much from what made Sonic fun to play with in the first place. That or series that wrapped up nicely, but which the developers drag out to make a quick buck on an established IP.

Looking right at you Halo 4.

Halo 3 ended on a cliffhanger, so we all knew there was going to be a Halo 4 back in 2007. it wasnt the series wrapping up, it was just the trilogy that was wrapped up. Halo is a pretty expansive universe with a lot of back story, so they should definitely be making more games to cover some of the stuff that is found in the books.

i would just like to see more variety in terms of the genre. the core games should always be FPS, but id love to have a third-person shooter, or maybe a purely stealth game that takes place in New Mombasa, like the open-ended night sequences in ODST.

anyway, my point is that the Halo franchise is expansive enough to warrant more games.

Videogame Franchise that Needs to Die the Most

Sometimes the only thing keeping a franchise alive is nostalgia.

Watch Video

You might have well titled your episode, "Which do you hate more, furries or Republican party members?" Because the sheer amount of bile that these franchises generates has very, very little to do with the subjective quality of the games get released.

Sonic Adventure 2: Battle is one of my favourite games off all time :(

How dare he.

Call of Duty.
Call of Duty Call of Duty Call of Duty Call of Duty Call of Duty .

I'm sorry, are you not understanding me? Let me say it clearly then. Call of Duty needs to die, or at least be taken out of the AAA market.

COD fanboys dont froth as much whenever soeone points out its faults, because they dont care, "it is just a game brah" Sonic fanboys, well.. look at the comments..

As soon as I saw the title of the video I thought Sonic!

Really enjoyed this debate, both sides argued very well while still remaining funny. One of your best!


I like Call of Duty, I think it's valid and fun, what I don't think we need are copycats of Call of Duty

So...Call of Duty?

There is a greatpoint made in this video, that the more recent CoD clones probably wouldn't have sold as well if they neglected the Call of Duty name. It's just a typical Activision move, flogging the dead horse of a formerly good franchise until it runs in to the ground and then blame the market. Kind of like Guitar Hero.

I WAS going to reply against your argument there, but then I reminded myself of Silent Hill: The Room. Originally it was a Konami horror game, a brand new IP, but they decided that by sticking the "Silent Hill" franchise to the title would sell more, and delivered us a game that's just ok, but ultimately fails to make any solid connection to the rest of the series. So yeah, I must concede, maybe some of the CoD games should've been IP's of their own, Black Ops 2 with it's futuristic take drove me away from the game, while I loved the first title because of the Vietnam theme, for instance.
However, it seems to me that most Call of Duty games share the same blood indeed, justifying that they all carry the franchise's name, they have a sort of common design between one another, you start playing you instantly know it's call of Duty, not Medal of Honor, nor Battlefield.
Franchises are the way the world roll, when you buy Nike you are buying more than the sneaker, you're mostly buying the Nike sign and all the power that comes behind it. Every Final Fantasy could be it's own IP, so much so that Lost Odyssey can easily be considered a FF game, still they retain the franchise, and there're subtleties that justify that.
When you buy Call of Duty, you're buying a shooter franchise, the latest model of that given product, same goes for FIFA and most of the other sporting games.
Point is,you made a very valid point. However, with a few exceptions, I don't think most CoD games could/should have been an IP of their own. Now, Activision or whomever SHOULD stop releasing a different CoD game per month, because that will lead to saturation sooner or later, not of the general gamer community, but from their target audience (shooter fans) itself...

You forget Fifa most pilot less game Franchise ever. Also call duty is a carp game and needs to die.

Lucky Godzilla:
You know, as long as people continue to buy and enjoy games, I see absolutely no reason for "killing" a franchise. The sole exception is probably Sonic due to the fact that they have deviated so much from what made Sonic fun to play with in the first place. That or series that wrapped up nicely, but which the developers drag out to make a quick buck on an established IP.

Looking right at you Halo 4.

It wasn't the devs who wanted Halo 4, it was the publisher. Bungie told Microsoft that it was done with Halo and left Microsoft. It was then that Microsoft created 343 studios.


Lucky Godzilla:
You know, as long as people continue to buy and enjoy games, I see absolutely no reason for "killing" a franchise. The sole exception is probably Sonic due to the fact that they have deviated so much from what made Sonic fun to play with in the first place. That or series that wrapped up nicely, but which the developers drag out to make a quick buck on an established IP.

Looking right at you Halo 4.

It wasn't the devs who wanted Halo 4, it was the publisher. Bungie told Microsoft that it was done with Halo and left Microsoft. It was then that Microsoft created 343 studios.

Yeah my bad, meant to say publisher.

You know what I want from Call of Duty?

A WW2 game with a lengthy and quality campaign.

If they put that out I would actually buy it.

As much as I hate Caw'a'Dooby, I have to admit Sonic is a shambling corpse. Not only in video game form - also in comic form. Archie Pubs just has to keep generating tension and drama and gravitas, so the entire freaking series has devolved into nothing more or less than a never-ending Greek tragedy.

When they doesn't work, they shelve the canon characters aside for a couple issues and go "Oh, shit. Let's just pull Mammoth Mogul out of the mothballs. Mammoth Mothballs. Alliterations be fun. Yay."

nastalga is such an in-defensible position. you try to say "no you don't get it, there were element's really worth while," but nobody can here past "there were".

there is a common misconception that movement in any direction is progression.

just because its the path we took doesn't make it the right path.
and i would rather live in a world were the top selling game was not grey and brown and devoid of heart.

Controversial much?

I'm also surprised you actually picked good choices for this as well, since both of these names are both released far too often. They shouldn't need to die though, just come less frequent, and the developers attempting make new interesting franchises.

Two people ripping on games they haven't played huh.

I concur with the outcome. Sonic needs the merciful bullet. Just stop production for, I dunno, 20 years. Bury the garbage games. Hunt them down, burn them, bury them and just leave the good ones intact. People will only have the good ones to play, it'll encourage nostalgia and people will remember what decent games look like. Then in 20 years they will see their favorite franchise rebooted, throw all their monies at it and have something to bond with their grandchildren on.

Call of Duty ALSO needs to end. But it's, as you said, somehow, still giving people enjoyment. In a way, it's almost a public service. It provides a safe environment (away from us) for the angsty, foul-mouthed adolescents to be what they are. Everyone knows, no surprises. Throw up the orange signs. Stay away. Go play something else. Once they learn that it's the Madden of FPS and what they're doing is boring, then CoD can die. Until then, everyone wins. The bitchy people get to keep playing their game, seeing who can come up with the cleverest insult and the rest get to keep not playing it.

IMO what Sonic needs is not as much of a killing of the franchise, as sort of... I dunno... Expanding the scope? Yeah, let's go with that.

I mean, sure, if the games stopped always featuring Sonic as the main character, they'd stop being "Sonic" per say, but if the franchise's rich character roster was allowed to flesh out, instead of adding on more token characters as they are neded, it could do it some good. Move away from always platformer, or always racing, kind of game; do an RPG, like that one for the DS, or a fighting game once in a while, anything. There's a ton of potential that just sits there unused, because they're always trying to do something where the blue guy would be comfortable, even though he's only, like, the 3rd most popular character in the franchise.

I honestly think that the idea that a series "needs to die" is stupid. If a game or line of games were based around a particular story, and the story was completed in its entirety, stands perfectly on its own, and another title would only serve to undermine what is already established, then no, they should not make additional games just for the sake of continuing the brand.

I can't speak for Call of Duty, having never played any of the games, but at least in Sonic's case, all of the games stand on their own two feet, even games like the adventure series that share the same title. Killing off the series just because it had some piss-poor games is pointless, because it eliminates any chance of them making good, or even great games somewhere down the line. Imagine if they had killed off Sonic after Sonic 06. If that had happened, then sure, we would have been spared Unleashed and Black Knight, but we would have missed out on great titles like Generations and Colors. I'd rather have a few shit titles if it means that we can keep getting good titles as well, especially since you don't even have to waste your money on shit titles due to reviewers and Let's Players and the like.

If a series isn't doing well, then that doesn't mean you take it out back and shoot it in the face with a shotgun. You just ease off it for a bit until some inspiration for a quality installation comes up. Sonic doesn't need to die, it just needs to slow down and take its time, so it can focus on the title and on making it amazing instead of simply trying to push out multiple yearly titles simply for the sake of pushing out more titles.

Bungie told Microsoft that it was done with Halo and left Microsoft.

Bungie told the world Halo 3 was the end, then made ODST & Reach. They are just as much to blame as Microsoft for milking Halo.

Sonic's just not cool anymore. The franchise doesn't have to die, but Sega needs to ring up Ninja Theory. They fix everything.

The Prince of Persia Series have always been dear to me.
But recently the princes absence makes me want to think that the series just needs to die.

The PoP-franchise already experienced a re-boot which lead to well... nothing, and after that they released another PoP game that was average at best. But for now, it's just best that the entire series stays dead. It's been dead for so long anyway and UbiSoft is diverting all resources to Assassins Creed anyway.

Final Fantasy is a series that needs to end and it needs to die NOW. People who have their heads stuck in the early 90's believing that SquareEnix will ever put out a game as good as FF7 need their heads checked. Final Hallway XIII was awful and the fact that they had to re-release FFIV just proves how bad that game series needs to die.

As for Sonic, the game needs an entire reboot.
Just remove all the shitty side characters and for christ sake don't let Sonic TALK.

Really there is only one way to finish this properly. Celebrity Deathmatch. Call of duty guy with said gun> *Shoots sonic in the head* ..."yeah just not the same as tea-bagging a douche."

Around the point Kyle said "Call of Duty may breed an army of douches who want to do nothing but kill you and then teabag your face..." I really thought Dan's score should have gone up a point.

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