Jimquisition: Dead Space - The Best New IP This Generation?

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GloatingSwine:

bringer of illumination:

This is one reason I cannot have the least bit of respect for Visceral

They have out-right STATED that they don't give a shit about the PC ports and that they ACTIVELY neuter them because they don't want any one platform (The PC) to have a "superior experience"

It's a load of fucking crap

Or they can't be arsed to cater to PC fatties who will just pirate the game anyway?

PC 'fatties' as you so delightfully call us, will only pirate the game, as TotalBiscuit said in this video

if the value proposition is so low that it's not worth buying the game.

You know, if the horror elements were neutered by microtransactions

if the game itself was a straight console port

if the franchise has nosedived so far from the original that it's barely worth the name.

You know, if those things happen.

Jimothy Sterling:

MegaSuperUberMe:
Dead Space, a horror game? Hahahaha, next thing you tell me that the residentevil movies are pure horror, eh Jim?

Interesting how you added "pure" horror to the RE movies, but not Dead Space. That basically set me up to talk about how nobody say "pure" anything with regards to the former.

When you telegraph your own argumentative flaw, it becomes too easy for me.

Have you seen that TB video btw?

Dead space really was a great IP.

Atmosphere remains great throughout... weapons/controls/gameplay etc etc is great.
Story is great, levels are varied and inspired (i.e. school after comm array after scientology church after.... etc and NOT just grey hallway after brown hallway)

Some people criticize the game for not being scary... I would hope that grown adults would get used to the jump scares after a while and not soil themselves or have mental trauma.... however, the jump scares do well to give suspense to the game and urgency, which is something people cannot argue.

I never played the multiplayer... strictly talking about single, and I for one can guarantee i am not buying any microtransactions after i get the core game.

bringer of illumination:

Trishbot:
Resident Evil has them. Silent Hill has them. Nearly every great horror movie ever made has them.

Okay, ignoring the rest of your post, I take issue with this part.

Resident Evil is a MUCH more of a action series than a horror series, it's hardly all that scary, and the early games only coast by on the low, LOW standards of the PS1 generation of consoles which was the first generation where horror was even possible.

The Silent Hills that are worth a crap have between none and VERY few jump-scares, and when you go several hours without a single jump scare it will make that one jumpscare all the more satisfying. Only the newer, shittier Silent Hills really embraced jump-scares, and they were worse for it.

And nearly every great horror movie ever made? That's just false.

image
Are you SERIOUSLY telling me that the traditional Resident Evil games "coasted by on the low standards of PS1 consoles"? The remake on Gamecube preserved the essence of the game, upped the presentation, and it was JUST as scary and thrilling as any other horror game has EVER been. Resident Evil was NEVER an "action" game until RE4, and even that's debatable. The creator of Resident Evil himself rejected pure action and, when he saw the original version of RE4 getting too action-driven, he turned it into a brand new IP entirely called Devil May Cry.

Silent Hill 1, also a PS1-era game, has plenty of jump scares (the glass room and the body in the locker immediately spring to mind), as does Silent Hill 2 (the bathroom door, the lying figure under the car, the hangman scream, Pyramid Head in EVERY appearance, the bug room, etc.) Silent Hill 3 has its share too. ALL of them do. Trust me; I played those games religiously.

These games, however, didn't rely ONLY on jump scares. Neither does Dead Space. I've played nearly every horror game you can imagine, and Dead Space has plenty of really excellent jump scares, but it's got plenty more going on for it (DS1's suicide room and DS2's creepy bird sanctuary are standouts). But even the best horror games have had jump scares.

And, yes, nearly every timeless, widely regarded scary horror movie has jump scares in it at some point. Exorcist, Alien, The Thing, The Shining, Jacob's Ladder, Paranormal Activity, Halloween, Psycho, Jaws, Night of the Living Dead, Evil Dead, The Omen, American Werewolf in London, The Ring, Suspiria, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, etc. Again, not all RELY on them, but nearly all of them HAVE them.

GloatingSwine:

bringer of illumination:

This is one reason I cannot have the least bit of respect for Visceral

They have out-right STATED that they don't give a shit about the PC ports and that they ACTIVELY neuter them because they don't want any one platform (The PC) to have a "superior experience"

It's a load of fucking crap

Or they can't be arsed to cater to PC fatties who will just pirate the game anyway?

Get bent.

This is a self-fulling prophesy, if devs refuse to make worthwhile stuff for the PC, then people will continue to pirate their worthless crap.

Time and time again it has been shown that pirates buy more games than non-pirate.

Make stuff that's worth paying for, and people will pay for it.

If you outright state that you don't care about PC gamers, then you have 1 chance to guess what PC gamers are gonna do when you release your shitty rushed out PC port.

ResonanceSD:

PC 'fatties' as you so delightfully call us, will only pirate the game, as TotalBiscuit said in this video

if the value proposition is so low that it's not worth buying the game.

If at any point in your decision making tree is "and therefore I will pirate the game, ensuring the developers receive nothing but I get to play it anyway", then why would they bother with you? This is exactly the attitude publicly expressed by PC gamers that make developers think the platform is bad for profitability or needs more always on DRM and freemium features than you can shake a dick at.

And that's not to mention the significant portion of the userbase who will just pirate the game anyway, when even stuff like Humble Indie Bundle gets something like 60% piracy rates (y'know that thing you can pay one cent for, that people massively pirate anyway because a huge proportion of PC users are such habitual scumbags*) you can't make the argument that "oh, PC gamers would pay if the port was good", they wouldn't.

You literally cannot make this argument, PC gamers don't, as it stands, deserve nice things. That's why everyone chased the tail of WoW for so long, because Blizzard figured out a way to extract money from PC players whilst everyone else was getting screwed by 90% piracy rates, and why the future of the platform is basically all about Free to Play because that locks them in to a system where you can tempt money out of them.

* And it's generally windows based traditional PC gamers that do, average payment for the Windows HIBs are lower than either Linux or Mac versions (presumably because the Linux users saved money on the OS and Mac users are loaded), which happens because PC gamers if they don't steal the thing outright will ensure that they screw over the people who made it by paying a single puny cent.

All this video has done is remind me that I really need to get around to playing Dead Space 2. I absolutely loved the first game, but I never got around to playing the second.
Because I've only played the first, I can't say it's the best IP of this gen, but Jim raises some great points and the series has definitely impressed me. Hopefully DS3 continues that streak of quality.

Still, damn micro transactions and damn EA's distasteful business practices.

You know, I bought Dead Space during the Steam Halloween sale last year because of the episode that mentioned how Dead Space is scary in the same kind of way that Doom 3 was scary (and unlike shit that relies only on cheap jump scares and thus doesn't even remotely scare me such as Slender, Doom 3 actually did scare me the first time I played it) because I thought it might be fun to play a game that actually messes with my head in that manner again.

Still haven't gotten around to actually playing it yet, though. But I think that it just moved up to the top of my "play next" list once I finish one of the games I'm already currently playing.

Mr.Tea:
I have only started Dead Space and I like the creative HUD (or lack thereof), but I was really disappointed at how quickly we got attacked at the beginning. Ever heard of pacing Visceral? Even the much maligned Doom 3 paced itself really well at the start and gave you a good 10-15 minutes of gameplay before throwing the legions of hell at you (see also: Half-Life).

I don't think "Half-Life" and "paced itself really well" are allowed to exist in the same sentence without some form of negation. For example, "Half-Life did not pace itself really well." Four words: Overly long tram ride. When you have players ready to turn the game off out of boredom before the game has even fucking started, you're doing pacing horribly, horribly wrong.

Callate:
Best IP this generation? Huh. No wonder EA is trying to find an excuse to kill it. ;)

Nice one!

Mr.Tea:
Four words: Overly long tram ride. When you have players ready to turn the game off out of boredom before the game has even fucking started, you're doing pacing horribly, horribly wrong.

Your kidding right? That bit at the start?
Well if people can't get through that I wonder how they have the patience to wait for the game to load or for a movie to start, or for their elevator to arrive, etc...

Half Life does have loads of bits that go on far too long. You can tell which bits they are because they've been cut out of the Black Mesa rerelease.

GloatingSwine:
Half Life does have loads of bits that go on far too long. You can tell which bits they are because they've been cut out of the Black Mesa rerelease.

Fair enough, that track thing still seems like an odd thing to remember

Half Life is, like many other games of its era, best loved in memory.

It's like Deus Ex. Every time someone talks about Deus Ex on the internet, someone somewhere reinstalls it, plays the first level, and then stops. Liberty Island in DX is probably the most played single level of any videogame because of this effect. I know this has happened to me a couple of times at least, and I can probably do the level in my sleep now.

Does Dark Souls and Demon's Souls count as an IP? If so, I disagree.

hey jim! I've got that issac clarke figure too!

mjc0961:
Dude, you're an ass. Not every PC gamer is a pirate, some of us do pay for our games and do deserve nice things (and by nice things, I mean games that work).

Pretty much this, I pay for all my games and don't buy EA products. You couldn't pay me to play Dead Space.

GloatingSwine:
You literally cannot make this argument, PC gamers don't, as it stands, deserve nice things.

Well done on latching on to one of my points, taking it out of context, and then using it to launch your own point against the $ spent on the humble bundle.

Have you considered that Windows owners pay less because they actually recognize what indie games are worth?

Jimothy Sterling:

T3hSource:

Proverbial Jon:
Dead Space really put the survival back into survival horror, even if its horror elements were a swing and a miss.

It definitely puts back survival,but the "horror" swings more towards ham-fisted attempts to shock you,so I think I should stop treating Dead Space as a "survival horror",but as a "survival thriller",because jump scares are not horror.Once you throw the entire idea of horror away and just focus on actual survival,the tension is there.

It's a "horror" the same way Left 4 Dead is. It's not about trying to spook you out or frighten you as much as it is about inducing sudden panic and "fight or flight" instincts. Its scares are based in things going to shit very quickly, rather than trying to get psychological with you.

I would argue that neither Left 4 Dead or Dead Space induced much horror at all. I get what you're saying about how the scares are for showing that things are going to shit quickly, but particularly in Dead Space, the scares are lackluster.

One of the major points against the "scares" of Dead Space is that they are more audio cues for hints that a monster is going to show up from the only vent in the room. Another point is that the same type of jump-scare is used more than a level design of Dragon Age 2. It's kind of scary the first time, but kind of lame the 3rd and completely obvious by the 10th time its seen.

All of his arguments make sense when you consider Dead Space as a video game. It's a lot of fun, and I actually started to care about what happens to Isaac by the end.

But it wasn't trying JUST to be a fun action-shooter. It was trying to be "the scariest video game of all time" (Direct quote from a Game Informer interview before the release of DS1. Can't remember what issue, sorry.) and it failed to be that. It failed SO HARD.

Dead Space. Good game. Best New IP of this generation? No...

Bioshock
Mass Effect
Bayonetta
Demon's Souls

Any of those four would argue... and win.

jovack22:
Dead space really was a great IP.

Atmosphere remains great throughout... weapons/controls/gameplay etc etc is great.
Story is great, levels are varied and inspired (i.e. school after comm array after scientology church after.... etc and NOT just grey hallway after brown hallway)

Some people criticize the game for not being scary... I would hope that grown adults would get used to the jump scares after a while and not soil themselves or have mental trauma.... however, the jump scares do well to give suspense to the game and urgency, which is something people cannot argue.

I never played the multiplayer... strictly talking about single, and I for one can guarantee i am not buying any microtransactions after i get the core game.

Same thoughts exactly.
Personally I find Dead Space to be scary but that's just because I'm a wuss, but you know what, that just makes it more fun.
I played the multiplayer for Dead Space 2 but not for very long, it really wasn't very good. I'm really interested in the co-op though, how they'll actually justify having a second person there and the game will more-or-less change depending on if there's more than one person or not.
THAT'S how you do it, F.E.A.R. 3!
Anyway.
Despite it looking like a more action heavy shooter, I'm still going to buy the game and I'm sure I'm going to enjoy it.

BioRex:

Mr.Tea:
Four words: Overly long tram ride. When you have players ready to turn the game off out of boredom before the game has even fucking started, you're doing pacing horribly, horribly wrong.

Your kidding right? That bit at the start?
Well if people can't get through that I wonder how they have the patience to wait for the game to load or for a movie to start, or for their elevator to arrive, etc...

Whoa, don't attribute that quote to me! My opinion's the same as you! You meant to quote mjc0961.

mjc0961:

Mr.Tea:
I have only started Dead Space and I like the creative HUD (or lack thereof), but I was really disappointed at how quickly we got attacked at the beginning. Ever heard of pacing Visceral? Even the much maligned Doom 3 paced itself really well at the start and gave you a good 10-15 minutes of gameplay before throwing the legions of hell at you (see also: Half-Life).

I don't think "Half-Life" and "paced itself really well" are allowed to exist in the same sentence without some form of negation. For example, "Half-Life did not pace itself really well." Four words: Overly long tram ride. When you have players ready to turn the game off out of boredom before the game has even fucking started, you're doing pacing horribly, horribly wrong.

Hahahahahahaha...

Oh, I'm sorry it's just that- Bwahahahahahaha!

Oh wow. Ok. You wouldn't know pacing if it hit you in the face, and I reckon maybe it should. If you can't even bear the shorter-than-a-TV-commercial-break tram ride in Half-Life, then maybe, just maybe the problem lies in front of the screen. Can you not watch a movie that doesn't open with an action sequence?

Get this: Dead Space wants to be a horror game. Now, obviously this isn't a rule (and it sure as shit isn't a failure of pacing), but it's a good idea to establish the state of normalcy in your story before throwing supernatural monsters or serial killers into it.
Now what I was saying with regards to Dead Space is that I just wish we'd have spent more time on the creepy deserted ship wondering what the hell went wrong and building up the tension before necromorphs started dropping from the ceiling.

minimacker:
Nyeh... I'm going to disagree with Jim. Dead Space is a pretty lack-luster series when you count all the pieces in. At least compared to other games of our generation. The scares in Dead Space are almost complete jokes. They were predictable as all hell and never had me waiting for them. So is that it? Is the franchise of the decade composed of nothing more than unscary jump scares?

Compare it to such games as Mass Effect and Bioshock, which *really* fleshed out the world they're set in. You WANTED to learn more about their world and what makes it tick. Dead Space has a few good niches, such as the armor HUD. But as a franchise and "the best intellectual property"? HA!

Bioshock?
It's just an underwater city, big deal.

Bioshock is probably one of the most over-rated games I've played this generation. Good? Sure. Fantastic? No.

Maybe if Rapture was actually like a living breathing city, with real people in it that I could care about then I might be more interested in the world. But seriously, a bunch of audio logs are supposed to make me care about people I've never met?

In fact all these games where you come in, after the fact, and you never glimpse the splendour of what it was before . . .none of those games are that compelling. Why should I care about something that's been lost if I never met it? It's like playing an RPG, being told about someone who was a great interesting person, then being told that they're dead and how you should feel sad about it.

I disagree. Its an ok game and fun to play. But after playing half way through DS1 i got bored and turned it off. Jump scares are cheap and not scary, they make you jump but its not a scare.....real fear was in Silent Hill. Also i dont like the guns apart from the one that fired blades. The character was boring. All that plodding slow walk made exploring a chore.....and no making you slow doesnt make it scary, just makes your reactions slow and pointless. The dismemberment thing was a great idea but just led to "cut off legs" to deal with the enemies.

Maybe it got better and the story actually got interesting after i turned it off? Maybe one i will give it another go. Or would people say the sequel is better? If so i may give the sequel a try.

Biggest knock I have against Visceral and EA with Dead Space isn't the games...I love the games...it is the clusterfuck that is Dead Space 2 on PC. The game is fine and looks AMAZING running at 60fps, it is the fact that the DLC is INCLUDED with one of the patches. This unlocks everything in the shop, makes money useless in the game, and RUINS the whole survival economy of the games. Plus the unlocked rigs and weapons make the joy of discovery a joke and ruins the balance. This isn't a game about being a god, it is a game about hoping you make it through the next room.

I'd hoped that EA would fix this. Steam forum and emails to EA have been vocal on this issue. Hopefully they'll revisit the issue when Dead Space 3 makes more sales for Dead Space 2. You'd think it would be easy to remove the DLC or to make players able to disable the DLC material while keeping the fixes from the patch intact.

For a publisher and developer that really seem to "get" what this game is about...the inclusion of forced, game ruining, DLC in the patch makes me just sad. It is hard to work at getting an "unpatched" version via Steam, thankfully I was able to use my activation code on Origin which doesn't auto-patch the game and run the game sans patches, but at least with all the horror still intact.

I do agree with a lot of what you are saying about the Dead Space franchise.

For me, Dead Space is a prime example of a "my first horror game" sort of game. It is not the scariest game of all time, not by a long shot really, and I do feel that it relies on jumpscares more often than it should. Dead Space 2 did feel a bit more generic then the first, at least for me.

But the main reason I think people love Dead Space so much, and sometimes hype it up a bit too much, is the atmosphere. The franchise has an incredible atmosphere to it, partly because of the reasons you stated (the integrated HUD, smooth transitions from cutscene to gameplay, etc...). Though it is not exactly "scary", per se, at least for me, it is definitely a prime example of atmosphere done right in a game.

Dead space? Really?

Well to each their own, but Honestly I dont think Dead space can even hope to hold a candle to the Souls series. Practically every positive extolled (save the whole transition thing) is just as if not better represented in Dark Or Demons. But as they say the proof is in the pudding and when your game can lead to some people purchasing second copies for no other reason than rabidly desiring to have MORE content via DLC-esque add on is pretty hard to ignore

To me Dead Space is "that game that got the dismemberment 100% right".
When I first started playing the first game I've spend 15 or so minutes stomping a pile of necromorph corpses. And pretty much couldn't stop doing this the entire time, hence it took me a long time to finish the game.

Now, I do have issues with Dead Space 3 microtransactions. I don't like anything related to the PS store or whatever in the game interface, unless I can buy it and it will disappear, adding some content. Microtransactions mean that there is always this option in game, and it will not go away no matter if/how much you pay. To me it's a deal-breaker and a no-buy.

And I've bought all DLC for Saint's Row 3, Dragon's Dogma and a number of other such games. I don't have problems with DLC, but I do have a problem with any kind of consistent subscription or microtransaction (which is why I never got into any MMO or free2play game - it irritates me). I will put it this way - if you want to sell a DLC that cost $15 and adds 100000 in-game money every time you start new game - I'm ok with it. But if it's an option in-game to buy currency that is always there - no. It's not a matter of money/price for me. I don't want a game that feels like a service, it actually makes me angry.

Lucky Godzilla:
I'm a big fan of the combat system of Dead Space. Everything feels so goddamn satisfying, and is in my humble opinion the pinnacle of the horror action genre. Also love the hud, just everything about it. My only gripe is how the dynamic laser sight of dead space 1 was removed in two and three.

As for best new I.P of this generation, I would be inclined to give it to Mass Effect But hey, to each their own

You can change that in the main menu, actually, go somewhere in the options menu then select "Classic" next to aiming mode.

OT: I guess I can agree with you, as far as mainstream IP's go, but I haven't really thought about my favorite new series this gen. I'll think about it more.

Jim, I don't normally watch your videos but let me say this: You're both right and wrong.
I agree with everything you praise about the Dead Space series, I do. And the thing is that I wish more games are a lot like Dead Space on the immersion side of things, building the HUD, the menus, the tooltips, everything into the game barely breaking immersion.

But, I do have to disagree on the part that its not the best IP of the generation. Its up there in innovation, story is very good, elements of player interaction is good, but it doesn't have enough. I do have to say, though its 3rd person, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE COVER BASED SHOOTING!

That being said, I don't have a best new IP of this generation but I just have catagories:

Immersion: Dead Space without a doubt
Story: Mass Effect (would have been better if Bioware didn't give into all the whiners asking for a Disney ending)
Gameplay: Borderlands
Just pure fun: Saints Row
Creativity/Originality: Portal

And as for the people that doesn't say that Dead Space isn't horror, Fear is relative to one's own personality, I am scared when playing the dead space games. My friends, not so much. So if it doesn't scare you, shut up and look at the aspects of the other game play, you should still get a rush as you hope that last shot of ammunition kills that necromorph rushing you.

. .. ... ..

.. .. I .. .. .. . I .. .. .

... .. .. . ... . . . am convinced, no longer can I shun my favorite game series of all time.

As hard as I tried, I can't. I love you Dead Space. Jim reminded me of WHY I loved the series, and everything in between. Yeah the micro-transactions is putting me off and the business tactics in how they're selling Dead Space 3 is unsettling if not downright outrageous but ... I, I am getting it. I can't resist.

Call me a hypocrite for saying I won't buy it, or do judge me for going back on my word.

But i'm a HUGE fan, who's beaten both games, played and beaten Extraction on my friend's Wii, watched both animated movies off Dead Space and even obtained all the achievements (even the Hardcore mode for Dead Space 2 which was utter terror that you only get three saves overall.) Still ... I, I. .. .. god dang it.

I'm really sorry morals, honor. Tomorrow, I am getting it. Actually after seeing this review I managed to get the last pre-order in and guess what? I get a pre-ordered Dead Space 3. My love for the series is to great and again, Jim touched me in ways I couldn't say no anymore to the refusal of getting the 3rd game. Even today I struggled as I obtained the badges in today's quiz off Dead Space, seeing this was to much.

Here I come Dead Space 3

I find it difficult to deem a game as being "The best IP of the Generation" when it fails in the biggest component of "Being a game" when it comes to the PC.

And that's being playable.

If I want to get into Dead Space 3 on my PC, I have to obtain Origin, from there, I have to pay $63 (40 GBP), and with this, I get a game that's ported quite poorly, is out-of-date with the format and is tacked upon with a fair amount of DLC, which is wafted in my face as the "Full" Experience.

It's like paying over the odds for a PS2 game on the PS3 these days.

It may very well be a good game, however, there's so much bullshit around it, it's an endeavour not worth the effort.

If they cut the crap and actually make the game effortless to play and actually competitive with other PC games, I'd gladly pay the RRP of a PC game to play it.

But, expecting me to pay over the odds, to be forced to use bloated DRM software while being squeezed for more money at every turn, no, I don't think so.

How cute. Jim does a video praising a game from one of his favorite franchises that he ALREADY gave legitimate criticism towards, and people immediately jump for the EA sock puppet retorts.

News Flash: you're not witty or clever by insinuating such things. Don't like the game? Fine, no one is forcing it on you. Don't like the publichser? Fine, no one is forcing them on you either. But if you're truly incapable of seeing how it can be enjoyed by someone with different tastes than yours, that is the epitome of the term "close minded".

But I'm sure these individuals will be back to singing praises as soon as Jim brings out the pitchforks and torches for his next EA rant, like good little two faced pricks.

Someone should make a sprite game called "Bucket Jim Chronicles"

A good episode and I agree with everything you say and this shows the tragedy that EA has created.

Dead Space has been an original series and fun to play... the question is whether I'm going to get it. I played on PC and Xbox and felt more comfortable playing PC... Oh wait Origin's breach of privacy.

This is the tragedy... EA have made a serious mess of IPs not because they are not bad designers but because they are bad marketers setting prices and rules in a way that abuses the player.

Lets get something straight:

- I wanted to finish Mass Effect 3
- I wanted to play Syndicate
- I want to play Dead Space 1, 2 and 3 on PC

But even if Origin had a serious overhaul and Battlefield 3's multiplayer is streamlined properly they have damaged the game industry has suffered because of these poor decisions has ruined developers... that reputation will never vanish.

We really need a retrospective review of a game franchise, which you've already dedicated a previous episode to defending. We really need more of the spouting of how much you love one game in particular. Because, you know, for something that's not a review show, that's kind of off base. Especially after the string of end of year game of the year videos. Could you stick to the topical content? kthankx.

My personal choice for best new IP would be Red Dead Redemption.

Fine game indeed.

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