Jimquisition: A-LIE-ns: Colonial Marines

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 NEXT
 

Capitano Segnaposto:

Mister Six:
Jesus. I thought people were blowing how bad the game was out of proportion by comparing it to Duke Nukem, but Christ if this true Gearbox really dropped the ball.

To be honest, it isn't ALL Gearbox's fault. Most of the game was developed out of studio, while the demo itself was developed in-house, at least from what I have heard.

If it is 100% true, then I wish Gearbox would have kept the entire thing in-house as it might have been a good game, otherwise. We have a few Gearbox employee's on the escapist. I wish they could go into more detail about this.

To be honest, I think this is part of the problem, even we the fans like to try and play "pass the buck" especially when it comes to a favorite developer. We actualyl wind up manufacturing excuses for the things we should be attacking.

To my way of thinking there should be no justification for Gearbox, their name is involved, as are those of others. Everyone involved should be facing the fires of boundless rage. Naming others involved should not be done to excuse or reduce blame on one or more participants, but to build the fire higher, and simply draw more people into it.

In short what we really need is an Inquisition (more than just a Jimquisition), angry fans running around the industry roasting, burning, and money depriving anyone even remotely involved. You don't let the witch go because someone suggests that little timmy's stomach ache might have come from eating too many apples as opposed to the evil eye, you throw the guy who runs the orchard onto the pyre too.... or simply, anyone even remotely associated with kind of thing needs to be made into a target. We as gamers need to take "well technically I didn't have much to do with that" or "I'm just a developer, it was all marketing" as feeble excuses... sort of like a Nazi camp guard saying "I didn't kill any Jews, I just stood outside the door, I was just following orders", we should give no mercy. Or to use another extreme example... pretend it's Warhammer 40k and we're about to declare Exterminatus on the companies involved.

This might not be nice, or fair, and to some might even undermine my arguement, but understand that playing "pass the buck" is an old corperate tool that survives because people let it work. Blame gets passed around until people get bored waiting for it to rest, and eventually some elected scapegoat gets slammed, and the guys who are really responsible get away with it as the trend continues and nothing changes... as a result, you need to hold everyone, even those remotely involved, responsible, and not take any dodges or pleas of innocence about who did what seriously. The game says "Gearbox", they are responsible, if they passed part of it off to someone else, they are also responsible, Sega allowed all of this to happen, they are responsible, the pizza guy fed them during their lunch breaks providing substinance while they perpetuated their deception.... umm, okay well maybe there does have to be a limit... but still not much of one. :)

This reminds me of the same issue but for Far Cry 3's demo. I saw the gameplay scene compared to the demo, and yes, some of it was spruced up. Some people were placed in different places (and added), the areas looked nicer in the demo. However it's countered by the fact that Far Cry 3 will have had a whole world to explore, giving you probably multiple chances to play similar experiences, or little moments, in different areas. Whereas the demo had to show as much as it could in a small area and so had a reason to include stuff that wouldn't have been in that area of the finish game.

ACM on the other hand is a linear game. You're going to have to go through the moments which are shown in the demo and do them in almost exactly the same way. The approaches to the gameplay were never going to be as varied as say open world games which to me is what makes this all the more shocking.

Also on a side note, I heard this single player was outsourced and produced by someone else, not Gearbox. Can anyone confirm or deny that? I'd be interested to know for sure.

I wasn't terribly interested in this game from the start. More so to do with the Aliens IP. I was just never that into them. But I think it's a massive shame what this game has turned out to be and disheartening for my view on Gearbox, which had picked up after playing Borderlands 2. I hope it doesn't happen with any other titles by Gearbox, or any other developer/publisher that I am looking forward to in the near future. I'm looking at you Rome 2 Total War and Bioshock Infinite and.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go argue with my dad whether he should buy this game or not.

Therumancer:

Capitano Segnaposto:

Mister Six:
Jesus. I thought people were blowing how bad the game was out of proportion by comparing it to Duke Nukem, but Christ if this true Gearbox really dropped the ball.

To be honest, it isn't ALL Gearbox's fault. Most of the game was developed out of studio, while the demo itself was developed in-house, at least from what I have heard.

If it is 100% true, then I wish Gearbox would have kept the entire thing in-house as it might have been a good game, otherwise. We have a few Gearbox employee's on the escapist. I wish they could go into more detail about this.

To be honest, I think this is part of the problem, even we the fans like to try and play "pass the buck" especially when it comes to a favorite developer. We actualyl wind up manufacturing excuses for the things we should be attacking.

To my way of thinking there should be no justification for Gearbox, their name is involved, as are those of others. Everyone involved should be facing the fires of boundless rage. Naming others involved should not be done to excuse or reduce blame on one or more participants, but to build the fire higher, and simply draw more people into it.

In short what we really need is an Inquisition (more than just a Jimquisition), angry fans running around the industry roasting, burning, and money depriving anyone even remotely involved. You don't let the witch go because someone suggests that little timmy's stomach ache might have come from eating too many apples as opposed to the evil eye, you throw the guy who runs the orchard onto the pyre too.... or simply, anyone even remotely associated with kind of thing needs to be made into a target. We as gamers need to take "well technically I didn't have much to do with that" or "I'm just a developer, it was all marketing" as feeble excuses... sort of like a Nazi camp guard saying "I didn't kill any Jews, I just stood outside the door, I was just following orders", we should give no mercy. Or to use another extreme example... pretend it's Warhammer 40k and we're about to declare Exterminatus on the companies involved.

This might not be nice, or fair, and to some might even undermine my arguement, but understand that playing "pass the buck" is an old corperate tool that survives because people let it work. Blame gets passed around until people get bored waiting for it to rest, and eventually some elected scapegoat gets slammed, and the guys who are really responsible get away with it as the trend continues and nothing changes... as a result, you need to hold everyone, even those remotely involved, responsible, and not take any dodges or pleas of innocence about who did what seriously. The game says "Gearbox", they are responsible, if they passed part of it off to someone else, they are also responsible, Sega allowed all of this to happen, they are responsible, the pizza guy fed them during their lunch breaks providing substinance while they perpetuated their deception.... umm, okay well maybe there does have to be a limit... but still not much of one. :)

You misunderstand, I am NOT a Gearbox fan. I do not enjoy the Brothers-in-Arms games, I found Borderlands to be a horrible piece of shit after the first hour of gameplay and Borderlands 2 is the only game that I can say I actually had a small iota of fun in playing.

All I am trying to say is don't place ALL the blame on Gearbox, but also at the parties that helped ruin what could have been a great Aliens game.

Jimothy Sterling:

Capitano Segnaposto:
Jim, why was Rebellion's AvP so... mediocre? I am only just going through it (Picked it up for $5.00) and so far it seems fun. The Marine campaign, while short so far, is actually tense and frightening. Does something happen later in the game that ruins it?

Also, I have to agree wholeheartedly with Aliens: Colonial Marines. I bought the Collector's Edition, only to return it that day after playing a friend's copy at his house. We both beat the game in under 8 hours. That shouldn't happen.

Here's my old review of AvP. I have a kind of weird fondness for it, but it had too many issues for me to simply ignore: http://www.destructoid.com/review-aliens-vs-predator-164318.phtml

Alrighty, read. I understand where you are coming from and understand now. Haven't touched the Predator/Alien campaigns yet, nor have I touched the Multiplayer (if there even still is any to be had). Do you think there is a chance for another sequel to AvP or Aliens in general after AvP(3)'s decent game and Aliens: Colonial Marines absolute abomination?

And here is why I dont pre-order games.

This demo realy takes the cake though. Im guessing the vast majourity of that all was scripted, with the intent of making it happen naturaly once the game finished. Except they never got around to making a decent AI or animations.

The enviroments are just weird though. It was work allready done, which they later reduced for... what reason?

neonsword13-ops:
Jesus, now that's sad.

I actually had high hopes for A:CM. I was hoping for a TRUE Aliens experience, what with the press demo and all. But now, All of my expectations are down the crapper.

*Sigh*

Gearbox... Where did things go wrong, man? Seriously.

At least now we know what the fuck Pitchfords DICE speech was about:

Arnoxthe1:
OK...

But WHAT ABOUT THE MULTIPLAYER? Is it half-way decent? I've already asked this in a similar thread but everyone's apparently still too busy crying about the campaign. Yes, it's crap. Didn't happen. Sorry. Let's move on now, shall we?

The multiplayer is phoned in. It only has 2-4 maps total.

Well hey, look on the bright side.

At least Gearbox have now managed to blow a massive hole in Jesse Scehll's "Demos hurt sales" theory.

So,... they HAD a (near) perfect and intense game with intelligent AI and CUT IT ALL OUT!

You have to wonder why they'd go to all the trouble to produce a demo that was better than the finished product. Also wouldn't this qualify as false advertising?

Arnoxthe1:
OK...

But WHAT ABOUT THE MULTIPLAYER? Is it half-way decent? I've already asked this in a similar thread but everyone's apparently still too busy crying about the campaign. Yes, it's crap. Didn't happen. Sorry. Let's move on now, shall we?

This game was supposed to be all about the single-player; homages to the movies and being a "true sequel" to Cameron's film, something that they so ecstatically advertised. That is what the market wanted, that is what it was marketed on.

The fact that they dropped the ball so hard on that is worth every second of analysis, criticism and complaint it gets.

You have AVP. You don't need this one. Enough games go to shit because they crowbar-in multiplayer.

Jimothy Sterling:
snip

You make a lot of valid points, and the entire situation is more than fishy.
But honestly, while half the video is the valid points: missing features, different mechanics, level of polish... then the other half is you saying "this dosen't happen" about a scene/story element/plot detail.

It kinda takes away from the overall point of the video whenever you mention something that's a legitimate demo practice alongside all the actual bullshit that Gearbox pulled off here.

Then again, I might just be nitpicking, because I actually like when a demo has a dedicated sequence, instead of plot spoilers.

I haven't seen game controversy this bad since the WarZ

It says it right at the beginning: "Work in progress." That means everything is subject to change.

You know what else was a fake scripted demo? The E3 Halo 2 demo. Evey smart developer makes scripted trailers, but that doesn't mean that the games themselves will be bad. Do you really not have anything better to do than make this masturbatory video?

Ouch. Glad I didn't preorder.

I was honestly looking forward to this. I was envisioning a Versus mode a la Left 4 Dead: a small team of marines who only get one life each, versus an unending horde of vanilla xenos, liberally spiced with respawning, player-controlled special aliens.

Who is responsible and how soon can s/he be sacked?

TWEWER:
It says it right at the beginning: "Work in progress." That means everything is subject to change.

You know what else was a fake scripted demo? The E3 Halo 2 demo. Evey smart developer makes scripted trailers, but that doesn't mean that the games themselves will be bad. Do you really not have anything better to do than make this masturbatory video?

No, every stupid developer makes scripted trailers. Smart developers promise something and actually deliver it. This demo was a lie from start to finish, and the game was shit. It would be nice if the developers were held accountable. I'd like to see everyone return their game to Gearbox and demand a refund. See what happens.

i think i can speak for more than just me when I say that i would have preferred the game be held back for longer if it had ended up like the demo

Dascylus:
I will be buying the game regardless.
Not that I don't trust Jim... In fact the timing of it all lends credit to the idea that he has been sitting on this for a while.
I'm guessing he played the game pre-release for review purposes but had to sign some form of NDA that prevented him from telling us sooner...
But anyway, I love all things Aliens so it's on my purchase list.

Just wait until June. It'll be going for $20 max by that point.

PainInTheAssInternet:

Dascylus:
I will be buying the game regardless.
Not that I don't trust Jim... In fact the timing of it all lends credit to the idea that he has been sitting on this for a while.
I'm guessing he played the game pre-release for review purposes but had to sign some form of NDA that prevented him from telling us sooner...
But anyway, I love all things Aliens so it's on my purchase list.

Just wait until June. It'll be going for $20 max by that point.

I like the reasoning... My wallet also agrees.

Jimothy Sterling:
*snip*

Its nice to see that some people still read the comments in their videos and articles (I know you do, but its often a witty joke, rather than a full flusher out conversation - at least on destructoid). I've seen all of those articles you've made, and I'm on top of all the details coming out about the game, like you. I don't know if you've actually seen this yet, but there's a recent post on Reddit where a supposed developer claimed what another one claimed before, that TimeGate made most of the campaign. He said "85%", to be precise..

http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/18ewf4/a_lot_of_you_are_rightfully_upset_at_the_final/

I'm not critical of you covering it, I'm glad you are. Give SEGA, Gearbox, and those involved all the hell they deserve - I know I am.

I just think that this one video is out of place in your series because Aliens: Colonial Marines isn't an example being made of this growing problem where there's demos are misleading, often with some better quality than the actual game, in which Aliens: Colonial Marines is probably the most egregious offender I can think of, but the video itself just focuses solely. Its a lesson we've certainly learned by now with trailers, due to Dead Island (not saying the game is bad, its just not the game we were expecting due to that trailer), but its something we've yet to learn with things like stage demos. Another egregious offender is Ghost Recon: Future Soldier, where me, as somebody who bought the game, can do the exact same thing with Future Soldier's 2010 E3 demo. Now I'm willing to bet you that Rainbow 6: Patriots' stage demo, which at least had the courtesy to say "Not actual gameplay footage", isn't going to look like the final product, especially with Ubisoft cutting major parts of the team making that game since then (http://www.gamespot.com/news/ubisoft-cuts-top-rainbow-6-patriots-staff-report-6365058). It may be a small issue, but its happening, maybe even growing. I don't think you're wrong to go after Aliens: Colonial Marines, not in the least, I think its a missed opportunity to not point out this problem, that may or may not be growing, where developers and/or publishers are seemingly trying to not just trying to sell their game to us, but intentionally deceive us by selling something different, often better, than what their game actually is. I'm now worried that The Last of Us, which was just confirmed delayed today, is going to be subject to this as well. You know Duke Nukem Forever had its E3 stage show have the game look great, but if I'm not mistaken, it was at least honest, and what you saw was actually in the game.

dragongit:
I haven't seen game controversy this bad since the WarZ

To be fair the trainwreck of WarZ is still going strong and this while a big issue doesn't even touch the amount of scams and BS that game has made its unfortunate fans go through. lol

Dascylus:

PainInTheAssInternet:

Dascylus:
I will be buying the game regardless.
Not that I don't trust Jim... In fact the timing of it all lends credit to the idea that he has been sitting on this for a while.
I'm guessing he played the game pre-release for review purposes but had to sign some form of NDA that prevented him from telling us sooner...
But anyway, I love all things Aliens so it's on my purchase list.

Just wait until June. It'll be going for $20 max by that point.

I like the reasoning... My wallet also agrees.

Mine as well. I was one of the suckers who pre-ordered the Collector's Edition (the bastard cost $100 and didn't include the DLC) so I could use Ripley's equipment. I so badly wanted this game to be good.

Anyways, I saw the reviews, ran into EB Games and got a refund (notably AFTER it was in stock).

I'm gonna wait. I'm not even sure it'll take until June to find its way into the bin. As for the Collector's Edition, maybe Ebay will be of assistance.

Ulquiorra4sama:
Well hey, look on the bright side.

At least Gearbox have now managed to blow a massive hole in Jesse Scehll's "Demos hurt sales" theory.

This isn't the type of demo he was talking about, though. He used numbers from the Xbox Live Marketplace, actually. There's a stage demo, and a demo you, the player, gets to play at a home - the ones he was talking about. Here's an example of the difference: all Mass Effect games had a stage demo, but Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 are the only ones with a distributed demo for the masses, not just a select few people. The E3 2012 Colonial Marines showcase had a hands on demo of the multiplayer, but it wasn't distributed to the masses. In fact, only Gearbox employees allowed to play the xenomorphs, which makes a lot of sense, now that we've got the final product.

Wow... just wow.

I didn't even buy the game, but after seeing that I'm pretty furious. That demo looks absolutely amazing, it's everything an Aliens game should be. Could this be considered false advertising?

Gearbox must be laughing all the way to the bank with all those pre-orders they had. Well I for one hope karma hits them like a ton of Xenomorphs.

MarsAtlas:

Ulquiorra4sama:
Well hey, look on the bright side.

At least Gearbox have now managed to blow a massive hole in Jesse Scehll's "Demos hurt sales" theory.

This isn't the type of demo he was talking about, though. He used numbers from the Xbox Live Marketplace, actually. There's a stage demo, and a demo you, the player, gets to play at a home - the ones he was talking about. Here's an example of the difference: all Mass Effect games had a stage demo, but Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 are the only ones with a distributed demo for the masses, not just a select few people. The E3 2012 Colonial Marines showcase had a hands on demo of the multiplayer, but it wasn't distributed to the masses. In fact, only Gearbox employees allowed to play the xenomorphs, which makes a lot of sense, now that we've got the final product.

I realized that after a bit more reading. Since i hadn't been following the game at all i figured it was the "standard" definition of a demo i.e. the kind that you put out to actually let people play it. Though i was under the impression stage demos were supposed to serve the same purpose as regular demos in that they show of gameplay. So i understand the outrage from the people who were hyped for the game, 'cause i'd feel pretty betrayed as well.

So, advertize a game with content that isn't even in the game....?
I want to say that's illegal, but hell everyone does it.

Look at all the fast food commercials, their food looks like delicious high tier food, and ends up being hockey pucks >.>

Screw Aliens, make another Duke Nukem game Gearbox.
I know the last one sucked, but you can make a better one!

LazyAza:
Lies and deception are kinda Gearbox's thing now between this, Duke and Borderlands 2. People forget how god damn amazing Borderlands 2 looked in its trailers and while the actual game got closer to its marketing yet again the ads are incredibly over selling what the game is. I'm definitely not giving any of their products a look until they are released and reviewed ever again.

Thank god I held back on CM or I'd have blown another 50 odd dollars on a lie.

As much as I love Borderlands 2, there's definitely truth in this.

I seem to recall statements made in the GameInformer cover reveal where Gearbox talked about a system in which the player would experience dynamic, branching missions that had different outcomes. For example, in a quest where you have to save a captured ally, you could save him and have the next mission go one way, or fail to save him and have the next mission go a different way. What happened to that? Obviously, it must have been cut, but it was never brought up again after that cover article. Gearbox seems to be caught over-hyping their games a lot, don't they?

OP: I was one of the poor suckers who pre-ordered Colonial Marines. I wanted this game to be good so badly. Now, I'm forcing myself through the campaign for a combination of obligation and a curious "find all the things that went wrong here" investigation. I'm trying a pacifist run where I exploit the incredibly stupid AI and try to get through the rest of the game firing as few shots as possible. Sadly, this is pretty easy to do, even on Hardened mode, which I'm playing on.

Ulquiorra4sama:
This isn't the type of demo he was talking about, though. He used numbers from the Xbox Live Marketplace, actually. There's a stage demo, and a demo you, the player, gets to play at a home - the ones he was talking about. Here's an example of the difference: all Mass Effect games had a stage demo, but Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 are the only ones with a distributed demo for the masses, not just a select few people. The E3 2012 Colonial Marines showcase had a hands on demo of the multiplayer, but it wasn't distributed to the masses. In fact, only Gearbox employees allowed to play the xenomorphs, which makes a lot of sense, now that we've got the final product.

I realized that after a bit more reading. Since i hadn't been following the game at all i figured it was the "standard" definition of a demo i.e. the kind that you put out to actually let people play it. Though i was under the impression stage demos were supposed to serve the same purpose as regular demos in that they show of gameplay. So i understand the outrage from the people who were hyped for the game, 'cause i'd feel pretty betrayed as well.[/quote]

There are other examples as well, one that I happened to fall for being Ghost Recon Future Soldier.


That looks pretty good, doesn't it? The game is not at all like that. The first video is way more off than the second. What you see in the second, to be fair, can be done, but it takes four human players going out of the way to do it in situations that 100% of the time would be four times faster and easier to do it like a typical run-and-gun shooter. The game wasn't bad necessarily, it was decent, had a few interesting things, but it was certainly not what you saw in either of those. Hell, literally every single mission in the game forces you, as in absolutely no freedom to tackle it, into a big shootout.

Sounds/looks to me like they ran into hardware limitations and had to cut a lot of things out.

I would assume they(the devs) were as heartbroken as we are about it, but the console generation is seriously out of date by now. Thems the breaks, wait until next generation for this kind of game play.

Jim goes on an angry rant as if they were just stupid or something, but I seriously doubt thats the case. They probably ran out of funding or (as I said) ran into hardware limitations. So the actual game couldn't play like the demo did.

Edit: Or time limitations. Funders don't give them "until its done" to polish these games, you know.

PainInTheAssInternet:
You have AVP. You don't need this one. Enough games go to shit because they crowbar-in multiplayer.

AvP2 is unbalanced in the predators favor and AvP is too old. I don't know about AvP 2010 but I'm sure nobody plays that anymore as well.

Jimothy Sterling:
A-LIE-ns: Colonial Marines

Sterling walks through Gearbox's walkthrough of Aliens: Colonial Marines.

Watch Video

Hey Jim when you go through things like this for your job I always wonder.....is it tough to be a god?


Anyway good job loved how you exposed the lies of the corporation and the game!

.. Well truth be told, I saw this coming.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted to see this become the biggest hit since maybe Call of Duty or at least do as amazing of a job as Borderlands 2. Still, I saw the demo and my mind suddenly went "This seems to good to be true.. way to many animations along with great atmosphere with so much happening .. there's no way this can be in the game." And seems I was more right then I hoped.

I'm starting to wonder, if the gaming industry really cares about us anymore... I mean, so many are becoming this way .. lying to us, trying to spam us with online passes and codes along with limiting things just to have us spend more money. Perhaps since EA is still running well, others want to become like them. Just assuming and I apologize, but really .. this demo was completely false advertising which hurts me to see.

I...I.... I don't know what to say. I was throwing money at my screen... how could such an awesome demo spawn what is probably the biggest wreck of the year so far...

I seriously wonder how Gearbox can nail Borderlands, this demo and then throw out the crap that was A:CM

Oh well, at least I still have my Natural Selection. Which is awesome.

Naqel:

Jimothy Sterling:
snip

then the other half is you saying "this dosen't happen" about a scene/story element/plot detail.
...
Then again, I might just be nitpicking, because I actually like when a demo has a dedicated sequence, instead of plot spoilers.

I was thinking the same thing, the original half life demo was a completely separate story from the main game and it was fine, but I do wonder if a demo does need to contain the same story elements.

What if the demo shows a good story but the actual game is completely different and terrible. It would be like seeing a trailer for Star Wars, but when you go see it you get Pride and Prejudice.

I got the edition with the statue... And.... It's a pretty good statue? All else is rancid. This game is a better tie in with Prometheus - the unfulfilled promise series. I'm going to try like hell for a refund...

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here