Assassin's Creed IV: Shameless Speculation Edition

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Assassin's Creed IV: Shameless Speculation Edition

Where and when will the next Assassin's Creed be set?

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Let's be honest here, they'll probably set it in either WW1 or WW2. Every game has been about bringing in 'better' tools to kill people with and after the muskets in the Rev. period and the pistol in the modern period they'll be itching to bring in better guns. Plus they've been moving forward in regards to the timeline so I have a hard time seeing them go to a time period that is historically earlier then their other games.

Alexander the Great on his conquest east. Think about it: there's a big cast of various Greek generals and soldiers meeting Persian courtiers and courtesans, with guest appearances from rulers of India and other parts of the Middle East (and hopefully a bit with Olympias and Phillip II). You've got big set-pieces like the Burning of Persepolis and the Siege of Tyre. There's even a smooth narrative: The Assassin is going with Alexander to pick off the Persian Templars who are being uprooted by Alexander's conquests, and falls for the charm of the young Greek king. However, as Alexander slowly becomes more and more despotic (they can insert and evil vizier character here), the Assassin is unable to rein in his cruelty, and eventually has to kill his friend via poison.

If not, the Egypt/Rome game you proposed will be fun. Hopefully, now that we can ditch Desmond and his stupid plot, the designers will feel free to dial the games back in history, rather than keeping us going forward.

I feel like Assassins Creed has a fixed intention of going higher and higher on the time-scale. First you have the crusades, then the renaissance, etc. So the obvious setting in my mind would be to tackle the Cold War, something slightly more covert and focused on conspiracies and secrets than the all-out bloodshed in the World Wars. That's also the rough timeline when the mafia was at its peak, so there you have the entire background story and scenario. It's pretty well documented with lots of important faces, and the best part is that all of the conspiracies and covert Cold Wars-y things going on at the time leave it riddled with holes for the Assassin and Templar factions to jump in.

Now, there's also the OTHER possibility. The possibility that it's finally time to make a present-day AC using Desmond as the main main guy.

I'd add the 30 Years war, nice long setting with plenty of intrigue and double crossing and a setting which spreads right across Europe from the Arctic Circle in the North to Italy in the South and East to Russia.

The architecture of the Old Ones looks kind of South America, so I wouldn't rule out a conquistador setting. The end of 2012 end of world setting of the present in AC3 also fits some sort of Mayan connection. But this would more suit the middle of a trilogy since it would probably end with the Assassins failing to stop the Spanish conquest of S.America.

The Crimean war could also be a more modern, but still pre-wide scale quick-firing weapons. And could be broadened to include the wider Balkans and the foment there which led to World War One.

On the plus side, even if your only characters were Ramesses' kids, you still have enough people there for a rather substantial cast.

I have been saying this since AssCreed 2. But maby it will not be a 4 but an expandalone?

Well the Ming Dynasty is probably as close as we're going to get to playing as a ninja, but it doesn't rule out that they could end up playing a role. It 's also a good excuse for diving into someone else's memories.

Generic_Dave:
I'd add the 30 Years war, nice long setting with plenty of intrigue and double crossing and a setting which spreads right across Europe from the Arctic Circle in the North to Italy in the South and East to Russia.

The architecture of the Old Ones looks kind of South America, so I wouldn't rule out a conquistador setting. The end of 2012 end of world setting of the present in AC3 also fits some sort of Mayan connection. But this would more suit the middle of a trilogy since it would probably end with the Assassins failing to stop the Spanish conquest of S.America.

The Crimean war could also be a more modern, but still pre-wide scale quick-firing weapons. And could be broadened to include the wider Balkans and the foment there which led to World War One.

Whoa dude, we think alike. Originally I had a section about settings I'd like to see but I don't think will ever happen. In it, I included both the Spanish Conquest of America and the 30 Years War, along with the Russian Revolution and English Civil War. I cut the section because it wasn't much more than a wish list, but yeah, I'd sign up for any of those. (Crimean War still has the problem of "not enough assassinations" and I honestly don't think Ubi's up for portraying the genocides perpetrated by the Conquistadores, but both would still be cool to see.)

As a series Assasin's Creed follows a central storyline that moves forward in time, as it gradually catches up to the protaganist "Desmond" in the game's "present". Barring spin offs like the New Orleans portable game, the core series by definition requires things to move forward, and also include people who could plausibly have been ancestors of Desmond and locations that could fit into the plots of the Templar/Assasins/etc.. Desmond has a complicated ethnic lineage which is part of the game, but you know what he winds up looking like nowadays so as we move forward distinctive non-white ethnicities become less and less likely as they would have shown a greater effect on what he looks like (a point I'm not alone in bringing up, though it's not popular).

As spy novels and fiction demonstrate hand to hand combat, especially when combined with stealth, never entirely disappear as a valid form of combat, especially on a personal level. Having extremely powerful guns availible in the world doesn't prevent guys from James Bond or Jason Bourne from doing a lot of their fighting up close and personal. A World War I or World War II setting isn't impractical. We've moved Desmond's complicated family tree (since it's all based around genetic memory) to the US, so anything the game does at this point is going to have to feature a way for a US citizen to be involved. With increasing lifespans as time moves on, we're also going to probably wind up seeing larger jumps in history, and more direct connections between protaganists, since we're no longer to really use "distant relations" since the puzzle eventually filters down to one guy, and it becomes narrower as we reach the game's present.

I'm guessing the next steps will either be the US Civil War or Mexican-American War or one of the World Wars as the next step. They want to keep the series going so I'd imagine they want a stopping point between "The American Revolution" and "World War X". They also have to be careful to avoid offensive portrayals as the closer they move to the present the more they are likely to risk POing people based on figures that while old are considered more closely relevent than what they have dealt with before. Ubisoft has already raised some eyebrows, but even they have to be aware there is a point where pushing the envelope could go too far, especially seeing as the reaction to certain portrayals might not be entirely expected. Discussing "The Alamo" for example can open up all kinds of surprising discussions that you might not consider especially given current politics between the US and Mexico.

I'll also mention there has been a recurring rumor that Ubisoft long ago planned to avoid a lot of the upcoming issues if the series went on this long and became successful by trying to move it to the future. Instead of catching up with Desmond, playing one of his descendants and making what happened to Desmond and the answers he might have found the new focus for the games. At one point I remember running into alleged art and story assets showing what was supposed to be a black descendant of Desmond, living 2 or 3 generations ahead in a cyber-punk type future, with pictures of corperate towers with the templar logo (conceptual outlines), and notes about optical camoflauge, monofiliment knives in his shoes (as opposed to a hand blade), and oddly enough exterior lighting systems on the back of those shoes like the old fad (which I seem to remember got some WTF and racist comments). It was probably all bunk, but I tend to think of it whenever I contemplate the future of the series.

I'll also say that the limitations I mention above largely apply to a numbered sequel, which is the central story. In theory you could do the story anywhere in a spin off, by having more templar propaganda films (like the recent portable game was supposed to be) or whatever else. A game set in The Ming Dynasty, or having an Assasin fighting alongside The Foreign Legion (or against them), or whatever else is all possible, as long as it wasn't added to the core series which follows a very specific storyline and progression. As it gets closer to Desmond's timeline the possibilities become increasingly limited, without skipping over him and going generations into the future.

I personally like the idea of the game taking place in the chaos of the French revolution it sounds like the kind of game id go right out and get rather that wait for the price to drop.

I like your ideas but the biggest issue I see is that unless they change main characters the person has to be in Desmond's lineage which rules out any characters in the same timeline unless they are the children of said character.

If it is the French Revolution, everyone here is entitled to one Les Miserables joke.
ONE!

saintdane05:
If it is the French Revolution, everyone here is entitled to one Les Miserables joke.
ONE!

Small point, Les Miserables isn't the French revolution, its the failed 1832 revolt. The French are always revolting, there obligatory anti French joke, you have to make them by law here in the UK.

I think whenever it is, it will be after the American War of Independence- I don't see them going backwards from 1776. French Revolution seems a bit too close to the AWI period to make enough of a different and wouldn't allow much innovation wise.

I'd favour Victorian London myself, circa 1885-95. Rich poor divide, industrialisation heavily underway...the idea of an assassin skulking around on the roof of a row of terrace housing, leaping onto the top of a moving train, jumping off onto a signal gantry, then clambering up a tall industrial chimney...with all the labyrinthine alleyways below, full of whores being butchered by an unknown maniac...would be brilliant...

while i cant stand the assassins creed games the concept is something i find intriguing. from the articles suggestion of egypt you cant get a much more chaotic period than the roman civil war.

heck multiple games from the civil war right up to the game set in egypt

Let me drop some realism in here, and SPOILERS guys, I'm not using spoiler tags in a thread about the next AC, if you haven't played 3 and don't want to spoil it then skip my post.

Seriously, I'm gonna be spoilering up in here. Last chance.

Anyway, I think we can cut out the assassins we've already seen being the protagonist for the next AC. We won't be playing Shao Jun or Amunet or any others we've been introduced to. The settings are still there but if they're in the timeframe of those characters they'll likely take a supporting role or a cameo.

Second, Desmond's dead and we can't dance around that. We also can't dance around Ubisoft's major plot fuck up of making Desmond choose the slavery option when we just spent 3 fucking lifetimes fighting that very fucking thing. Rage aside, I think we're going to see Ubisoft break the pattern of only going forward so they can both extend the settings they can have and also progress the story. We'll see the Assassins try to find pieces of Eden to fight Minerva and free Earth again while the Templars get in their way even more, trying to seize control for themselves through the same method. Even though we might go backwards in time I can't see us going so far back that firearms aren't an option, they became fairly important in 3 and not too advanced so Ubi have some wiggle room for that feature.

And finally, back to Desmond's death, we won't see any more of Connor. We won't take control of his father to replay more Connor. His Dad is too old for it to be safe to go into the animus, he'd crumple up as soon as the bleeding effect hit.

So long story short:
French Revolution - too close to the current timeframe, not a great deal of setting change necessary for a new iteration.
Pirates - No more Connor, though the ship battles will be back I expect
The Ming Dynasty - Possible, though it may be too close to Ezio's timeline.
Hellenistic Egypt - Too far back I expect. Though it would be a great setting, it would lack the advances in technology that people have played with; it'd be like making people play Call of Duty with muskets.

My best guess would be industrial England. Even then it's a long shot for Ubisoft to come so close to our own time period, after that you'd have 3 major settings that people would be comfortable with: WW1, WW2 and the Cold War. All of the settings have been fairly mainstream with the exception of the more obscure Revelations, I can't imagine they'd veer too far off the beaten path.

I totally want to see ether China or Egypt

There's an optional conversation you can have during the game where Shaun says he wants to try turning the dial on the animus all the way back to the First Civilization, so I'm guessing that was a bit of foreshadowing on ubisoft's part. The next ancestor will be the original ancestor. Where else would you go if you're looking for a way to destroy Juno?

Sadly, it looks like the progression is to make each game take place closer to the modern day so while I would love to play an Assassin's Creed taking place in Ancient Egypt, Macedonia, the Warring States era of Japan, the era of China wherein Romance of the Three Kingdoms takes place...I don't see that happening. I'm just going to hope they go for WW1 instead of WW2 when they inevitably go there.

Boxers Rebellion could be a cool time to have Assassin's Creed in. It'd be interesting to see a protagonist divided between supporting the Chinese and the foreign powers. Perhaps the protagonist could be half-Chinese but he was raised in a Western-Nation/ British controlled India so he would be westernised, but would feel sympathy for the Chinese. The only thing is the Boxers Rebellion was a short period of time, so maybe it'd involve time leading up to and after the actual rebellion.

I really hope they DON'T keep moving forward. I'd love to see some stuff later in history, but there were so many great things they passed up in history. Personally, I think something during the Bolsheviks' time would be super interesting. Just you as a badass Russian assassin. I don't even care which side you may or may not be on. Just that time period and place would be awesome.

An Assassins Creed game that is set in Ancient Egypt? Hmm.....i think we need to bring in "The Theme" for this one:

There, let your imaginations run absolutely wild about a hellenistic Egypt/Greece Assassins Creed....which includes the assassinations of Caligula and Nero!

What I'd love to see is for the next game to be set in Russia pre/during the soviet revolution.

Thunderous Cacophony:
Alexander the Great on his conquest east. Think about it: there's a big cast of various Greek generals and soldiers meeting Persian courtiers and courtesans, with guest appearances from rulers of India and other parts of the Middle East (and hopefully a bit with Olympias and Phillip II). You've got big set-pieces like the Burning of Persepolis and the Siege of Tyre. There's even a smooth narrative: The Assassin is going with Alexander to pick off the Persian Templars who are being uprooted by Alexander's conquests, and falls for the charm of the young Greek king. However, as Alexander slowly becomes more and more despotic (they can insert and evil vizier character here), the Assassin is unable to rein in his cruelty, and eventually has to kill his friend via poison.

If not, the Egypt/Rome game you proposed will be fun. Hopefully, now that we can ditch Desmond and his stupid plot, the designers will feel free to dial the games back in history, rather than keeping us going forward.

That's a neat look at the story of the Babylonian Assassin Alamut, who poisoned Alexander the Great. It connects to what Robert said about the Egyptian Assassin who used an Asp to kill Cleopatra, and they both have statues in the Sanctuary under Villa Auditore.

Therumancer:
As a series Assasin's Creed follows a central storyline that moves forward in time, as it gradually catches up to the protaganist "Desmond" in the game's "present". Barring spin offs like the New Orleans portable game, the core series by definition requires things to move forward, and also include people who could plausibly have been ancestors of Desmond and locations that could fit into the plots of the Templar/Assasins/etc.. Desmond has a complicated ethnic lineage which is part of the game, but you know what he winds up looking like nowadays so as we move forward distinctive non-white ethnicities become less and less likely as they would have shown a greater effect on what he looks like (a point I'm not alone in bringing up, though it's not popular).

As spy novels and fiction demonstrate hand to hand combat, especially when combined with stealth, never entirely disappear as a valid form of combat, especially on a personal level. Having extremely powerful guns availible in the world doesn't prevent guys from James Bond or Jason Bourne from doing a lot of their fighting up close and personal. A World War I or World War II setting isn't impractical. We've moved Desmond's complicated family tree (since it's all based around genetic memory) to the US, so anything the game does at this point is going to have to feature a way for a US citizen to be involved. With increasing lifespans as time moves on, we're also going to probably wind up seeing larger jumps in history, and more direct connections between protaganists, since we're no longer to really use "distant relations" since the puzzle eventually filters down to one guy, and it becomes narrower as we reach the game's present.

I'm guessing the next steps will either be the US Civil War or Mexican-American War or one of the World Wars as the next step. They want to keep the series going so I'd imagine they want a stopping point between "The American Revolution" and "World War X". They also have to be careful to avoid offensive portrayals as the closer they move to the present the more they are likely to risk POing people based on figures that while old are considered more closely relevent than what they have dealt with before. Ubisoft has already raised some eyebrows, but even they have to be aware there is a point where pushing the envelope could go too far, especially seeing as the reaction to certain portrayals might not be entirely expected. Discussing "The Alamo" for example can open up all kinds of surprising discussions that you might not consider especially given current politics between the US and Mexico.

Just on the point of your belief that AC4 has to be something involving America, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Aquilus, Altair, Ezio and Connor have no blood connections to each other other than their children marrying the opposites.

As the image shows, Connor is not a direct descendant of Ezio or Altair, Connor merely had a descendant that eventually linked into either Desomd's father's side, or his mother's by hooking up with Desmonds other ancestor Aquilus's descendants. We so far have at least 3 different ancestors of Desmond that could have descendants in any part of ther world. Whilst you are right that the likely hood of a Desmond ancestor after Connor being African or Asian is unlikely, it is entirely plausible. It is entirely plausible that Aquilus's descendants moved to Africa (He was a part of the Roman Empire) or across towards Nordic/Slavic regions (A good majority of Russia is in Asian territory), Altair lived in the Middle East, opening up many possible places his descendants could have settled in. Ezio's child Flavia met Shao Jun and could have been compelled to visit Asia due to the experience she had with Jun, and this is likely seeing as how her mother enjoyed traveling.

So yeah, I believe there is plenty of places that the next AC game could take place in. There's nothing stopping them from having a German, African, Japanese, Chinese, Spanish, or even a New Zealand ancestor.

This might just be my Britishness talking, but seeing a game set in the English Civil War could be really interesting - especially as the conventional reading of history presents anit-monarchists as 'bad guys': there's scope for some nice grey area in the order/freedom debate that characterises the series.

Also running around 17th century London/Oxford would be awesome.

i'd like any and all of these as options. I don't know why I didn't think of Egypt before, but...Yeah, DO WANT.

I'd go with French Revolution for reason Robert points out, plus the fact that the French Revolution is at least widely known. Personally I'd prefer the Russian revolution. Great architecture, great characters (Rasputin!) and has all the themes. However, I know the media-tie-in comics they made already covered this period.

I hope it's not another American setting. Frankly, I found the grandising of American history a bit annoying. It's important as the birth of a nation but wasn't that big a deal to other nations at the time, it was just a colonial insurrection.

One place they won't go but I'd love if they did would be Victorian age India. You have Afghan tribes to the north, the taking of Raj palaces, Russia vying for control. The British colonial suppression.

The reason they won't go there though is the same reason they won't go to China. The history is not widely known, and it's clear from Assassin's Creed 3 outselling all the others is that pandering to the history people kind of know already sells better than obscure times.

It would be weird if they did a World War. I'm not sure how that would even work with their themes and game mechanics, even ignoring the whole "guns" issue.

As much as I'd love the cold war to be a setting (mainly because Snake Eater is one of my favourite games of all time), it seems like it would be a bit too close, unless you have the ancestor pop his clogs before he could've feasibly had too much involvement with Desmond.

The problem we've got is because Conner is the first US relative we've seen, we're going to have to stay in North or South American, I suppose Britain or France is feasible, but then we've got to find a way back to America in time for Desmond family to set up there. Victorian Britain would be cool, as I could pretend I'm playing Gotham by gaslight.

Having not actually played AC3 yet, so my knowledge of the story runs out there, I'm actually looking forward to a modern day setting when it comes, they'll have to change the gameplay a bit to account for the use of proper guns, but if they can pull it off, I'm imagining it being like the old Hitmans fused with AC running jumping fun times.

Once they finish Desmonds story, they'll be free to go where ever they want, as they've got all those statues of various assassins in the Motegori villa we can visit, anything really.

Rasputin era Russia would be cool. I bet he'd be involved somehow, given the legend of him surviving being killed about 6 times in a row as a friend of the Assassins no doubt, and the Templars were the ones who killed him. There's plenty of stuff going on with him involving political struggles between the Monarchists and the Anti Monarchy. Perhaps Alexandra Feodorovna opposed the Templars rule and provided information to the assassins through Rasputin, with Vladimir Lenin acting as the figurehead of the Templars using the socialist rule as a guise and trick to control the empire after the Bolshevek coup de ta

Of course the other way round could work too, history is written by the winners after all, and I'm pretty sure the Medici family were far worse in real life than they were depicted in AC, which is reflected by the Pazzi family working for the Templars and the Templars just wrote that the Medici were real bastards in order to discredit them.

Russia!

Bolsheviks!

Enough of Western for now. Either go Russia or China.

bug_of_war:

Therumancer:
As a series Assasin's Creed follows a central storyline that moves forward in time, as it gradually catches up to the protaganist "Desmond" in the game's "present". Barring spin offs like the New Orleans portable game, the core series by definition requires things to move forward, and also include people who could plausibly have been ancestors of Desmond and locations that could fit into the plots of the Templar/Assasins/etc.. Desmond has a complicated ethnic lineage which is part of the game, but you know what he winds up looking like nowadays so as we move forward distinctive non-white ethnicities become less and less likely as they would have shown a greater effect on what he looks like (a point I'm not alone in bringing up, though it's not popular).

As spy novels and fiction demonstrate hand to hand combat, especially when combined with stealth, never entirely disappear as a valid form of combat, especially on a personal level. Having extremely powerful guns availible in the world doesn't prevent guys from James Bond or Jason Bourne from doing a lot of their fighting up close and personal. A World War I or World War II setting isn't impractical. We've moved Desmond's complicated family tree (since it's all based around genetic memory) to the US, so anything the game does at this point is going to have to feature a way for a US citizen to be involved. With increasing lifespans as time moves on, we're also going to probably wind up seeing larger jumps in history, and more direct connections between protaganists, since we're no longer to really use "distant relations" since the puzzle eventually filters down to one guy, and it becomes narrower as we reach the game's present.

I'm guessing the next steps will either be the US Civil War or Mexican-American War or one of the World Wars as the next step. They want to keep the series going so I'd imagine they want a stopping point between "The American Revolution" and "World War X". They also have to be careful to avoid offensive portrayals as the closer they move to the present the more they are likely to risk POing people based on figures that while old are considered more closely relevent than what they have dealt with before. Ubisoft has already raised some eyebrows, but even they have to be aware there is a point where pushing the envelope could go too far, especially seeing as the reaction to certain portrayals might not be entirely expected. Discussing "The Alamo" for example can open up all kinds of surprising discussions that you might not consider especially given current politics between the US and Mexico.

Just on the point of your belief that AC4 has to be something involving America, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Aquilus, Altair, Ezio and Connor have no blood connections to each other other than their children marrying the opposites.

As the image shows, Connor is not a direct descendant of Ezio or Altair, Connor merely had a descendant that eventually linked into either Desomd's father's side, or his mother's by hooking up with Desmonds other ancestor Aquilus's descendants. We so far have at least 3 different ancestors of Desmond that could have descendants in any part of ther world. Whilst you are right that the likely hood of a Desmond ancestor after Connor being African or Asian is unlikely, it is entirely plausible. It is entirely plausible that Aquilus's descendants moved to Africa (He was a part of the Roman Empire) or across towards Nordic/Slavic regions (A good majority of Russia is in Asian territory), Altair lived in the Middle East, opening up many possible places his descendants could have settled in. Ezio's child Flavia met Shao Jun and could have been compelled to visit Asia due to the experience she had with Jun, and this is likely seeing as how her mother enjoyed traveling.

So yeah, I believe there is plenty of places that the next AC game could take place in. There's nothing stopping them from having a German, African, Japanese, Chinese, Spanish, or even a New Zealand ancestor.

Not true, the entire thing revolves around the concept of Genetic Memory. Basically the genes of all these people have to wind up within Desmond, and also to the degree where he becomes a singular entity from where these memories can be minded, as well as with enough genetic lineage where he can remember their skills. It's not a case of "we do not know", we do know by the central concept of the game, the rest is just justification for fans to argue that they would get a game tied to the main series where they happen to live.

Right now we have a vaguely plausible situation where an Arab (from the middle east)'s lineage could have wound up seeing his line interbreed to the point where a blood relative winds up in renaissance Italy where then generations later we see his line intermarrying to the point of producing someone who went to the US and mingled with Native American blood. Especially given the fact that people at these time periods living 30-40 years was the norm and even a bit on the exceptional side and those who lived anything like full modern lifespans (like say the old man version of some of the protaganists) happened but was an extremely rare occurance. The rapid turnover of generations is what helps a premise like this, and generally speaking there is no real point in charting the entire lineage when you might be dealing with a lineage that traces through say Joe Bob the Offal salesman who did pretty much nothing, or in the case of bringing some of the transfers from say The Middle East to Europe might involve rape at some point which would hardly be politically correct, it doesn't HAVE to, but would be plausible in explaining how a genetic lineage might trace through cultures that generally hated each other at a time frame when interracial relationships was a bigger deal than it ever was in the modern world when it was viewed as a problem.

Given the lifespans involved here you couldn't explain how a family lineage could move to say Asia, and then move back to produce Desmond in the game's present. They are simply put running out of room. Not to mention that it's a problem to deal with genetic ancestors doing things in timeframes that were already covered given the needs of moving things to the next location.

As I said though, this does not mean you couldn't do Assasin stories involving the same mythology in other places, and using any ethnicity of protaganist, just not in the core series, involving Desmond and the central plotline, unless you moved it into the future. Desmond could wind up marrying/breeding with anyone especially considering modern sensibilities so if you were to say move it ahead two or three generations, and then say the guy married a black woman, and his offspring also married black, their child could for all intents and purposes look (and be) black and carry on the central plotline. Of course for each generation now your looking at accelerating the series an increased amount of time, especially if we want Desmond to be in the past, simply due to modern lifespans.

This is incidently why the rumors about concept art for a future game being genuine held a degree of possible validity because you could justify that. You couldn't at this point say Desmond's colonial ancestor line moved to China, stayed there for two or three generations to produce an authenticly chinese looking/cultural protaganist, and then moved back and produced a guy that looks like Desmond. Your only dealing with a period of a couple hundred years now and people that are going to routinely start living up to 80. Up until this point you had some fairly brief lifespans to justify the passage of "in between" generations combined with a much greater degree of time since this all started back in The Middle Ages.

Now I suppose in theory you could do a game set before Altair, but then you run into similar problems with justifying the lineage with the cultural trends at that point. Explaining how an ancestor in ancient china wound up producing a son a few generations later who was accepted as a full blooded arab, which is more than just appearance, would be kind of rough for the time period especially given demands for racial purity. It isn't like today where anyone can have a kid with just about anyone else in the first world, and the people upset by it represent something of a minority.

At the end of the day it's not so much the events of the games that create the problem, but the central concept that ties them together, which is Desmond, and why he's "special" for being a genetic descendant of these people. You pretty much have to be able to trace his line back and be able to fine each one of these people in a direct lineage at some point.

Therumancer:

Not true, the entire thing revolves around the concept of Genetic Memory. Basically the genes of all these people have to wind up within Desmond, and also to the degree where he becomes a singular entity from where these memories can be minded, as well as with enough genetic lineage where he can remember their skills. It's not a case of "we do not know", we do know by the central concept of the game, the rest is just justification for fans to argue that they would get a game tied to the main series where they happen to live.

I understand that, it still does not mean that it isn't plausible that an acestor linked to Desmond could not be from Africa, Germany, China etc etc. It is entirely plausible, just highly unlikely.

Therumancer:

Right now we have a vaguely plausible situation where an Arab (from the middle east)'s lineage could have wound up seeing his line interbreed to the point where a blood relative winds up in renaissance Italy where then generations later we see his line intermarrying to the point of producing someone who went to the US and mingled with Native American blood. Especially given the fact that people at these time periods living 30-40 years was the norm and even a bit on the exceptional side and those who lived anything like full modern lifespans (like say the old man version of some of the protaganists) happened but was an extremely rare occurance. The rapid turnover of generations is what helps a premise like this, and generally speaking there is no real point in charting the entire lineage when you might be dealing with a lineage that traces through say Joe Bob the Offal salesman who did pretty much nothing, or in the case of bringing some of the transfers from say The Middle East to Europe might involve rape at some point which would hardly be politically correct, it doesn't HAVE to, but would be plausible in explaining how a genetic lineage might trace through cultures that generally hated each other at a time frame when interracial relationships was a bigger deal than it ever was in the modern world when it was viewed as a problem.

Except it is stated that Ezio and Altair are not blood related, Altair's descendents did not wind up in Italy, and as the picture I posted previously shows, Connor is not related to Altair or Ezio, but his descendants intertwine with Aquilus and then that union intertwines somehow into (presuming the dialogue is correct) Desmond's father's side. Yes, we could definately have a scenario where Desmond's ancestor is a rape child, or a rapist, or incestuous, I never said that was not plausible, but there is always a chance dealing with lineage going as far back as AC does. As you pointed out, people use to live for roughly 40 years, that's quite a fair bit of ancestors that can be thrown in given how the average person had children around 16.

Therumancer:

Given the lifespans involved here you couldn't explain how a family lineage could move to say Asia, and then move back to produce Desmond in the game's present. They are simply put running out of room. Not to mention that it's a problem to deal with genetic ancestors doing things in timeframes that were already covered given the needs of moving things to the next location.

It's entirely plausible that they moved to America JUST in time. We have yet to see Desmond's mother, and she may very well be any ethnicity. My grandparents on one side are Spanish/Asian, and my sister and I turned out having no asian traits what so ever. I even know a guy whom is half aboriginal and half english, and he took after the english side rather than the aboriginal side. You would be surprised how quickly appearances can be diluted.

Therumancer:

As I said though, this does not mean you couldn't do Assasin stories involving the same mythology in other places, and using any ethnicity of protaganist, just not in the core series, involving Desmond and the central plotline, unless you moved it into the future. Desmond could wind up marrying/breeding with anyone especially considering modern sensibilities so if you were to say move it ahead two or three generations, and then say the guy married a black woman, and his offspring also married black, their child could for all intents and purposes look (and be) black and carry on the central plotline. Of course for each generation now your looking at accelerating the series an increased amount of time, especially if we want Desmond to be in the past, simply due to modern lifespans.

Well...

Therumancer:

This is incidently why the rumors about concept art for a future game being genuine held a degree of possible validity because you could justify that. You couldn't at this point say Desmond's colonial ancestor line moved to China, stayed there for two or three generations to produce an authenticly chinese looking/cultural protaganist, and then moved back and produced a guy that looks like Desmond. Your only dealing with a period of a couple hundred years now and people that are going to routinely start living up to 80. Up until this point you had some fairly brief lifespans to justify the passage of "in between" generations combined with a much greater degree of time since this all started back in The Middle Ages.

You are still forgetting that Desmond has 2 parents, who have 2 parents, who had 2 parents, who had 2 parents who had 2 parents, who had 2 parents. 6 generations hold 12 ancestors for Desmond, thus there is a good chance that at some point one of his ancestors was a vastly different ethnicity. So far we only know that Connor's lineage has made it to America in the 1800s, that is still 200 years, and given that we've only just recently (within the last 40-50 years) begun dying around 70-80, there is a chance that they COULD be Asian or African, even if it's slim it is plausible.

Therumancer:

Now I suppose in theory you could do a game set before Altair, but then you run into similar problems with justifying the lineage with the cultural trends at that point. Explaining how an ancestor in ancient china wound up producing a son a few generations later who was accepted as a full blooded arab, which is more than just appearance, would be kind of rough for the time period especially given demands for racial purity. It isn't like today where anyone can have a kid with just about anyone else in the first world, and the people upset by it represent something of a minority.

They did do a comic about an ancestor of Desmond spanning before Altair, it was Aquilus, and he was Roman. As for how an ancestor back then could be Chinese or African when racial prejudice was deeply ingrained in all societies, I go back to the point you brought up that Desmonds ancestor could be a rapist. While an Arabian in the 1200s may believe an Asian to be below them, that doesn't mean they wouldn't rape them. Rape is all about the power and dominance over the victim, not, "Oh wow, she/he is really attractive and I want to make love to them". So it is entirely plausible that we could play as a child conceived through rape. Or, it is more possible that the parent of the child could be a prostitute. The possibilities are almost enless when going far back into someones lineage.

Let's bring some maths into the equation. The first thing to bear in mind is the ascendants we play only need to be related to Desmond, not to each other. So Altair need not be related to Connor, who need not be related to Ezio, who need not be related to the protagonist of the next game (who, for the sake of ease, I am henceforth going to call Squigglepuff). That may sound rather silly but it's bloody obvious when you think about it; afterall you are related to both your parents, but they aren't closely related to one another (at least I hope not!). When you take this back, it becomes more obvious. Assuming no inbreeding, or odd coincidences, your fathers fathers fathers father isn't going to be related to your mothers mothers mothers mother. Despite you being related to both.

So that's that out of the way. Let us assume, on average through history, that the average age of parents when giving birth to a sprog is 20 years old. May seem a very arbitrary amount, but it seems plausible to me, and makes the maths easier. Hence a generation for the purposes of the maths is 20 years.

So, let's look at how many people Desmond is descended from who were alive at the same period as, say, the Third Crusade (Altair's time). That's 800 years, give or take, thus 20 generations. For those willing to check on the maths, one works it out as 2 to the power of the number of generations, in this case 2^20. That's pretty much (with some rounding) 1,000,000,000,000 (1 trillion) people he is descended from. Well, obviously not. The population of the world in 1200 was only about 360,000,000 (360 million). Hell, the best guestimate to the number of people who have ever existed is only 110,000,000,000 (110 billion). The fact is that there is going to be some inbreeding, though much will breeding with relatives so distantly related that, for all intents and purposes, they actually aren't (19th cousing 12 times removed and all that)

It means, statistically, if one was to draw a family tree that included all the people you are directly descended from, the top line would include everyone who was alive in 1200AD....1,800 ish times.

So can Desmond be descended from both an Arab during the crusades, and a Ming Dynasty Nobleman? Statiscally, he has to be...many times over.

Though it does raise the rather important question as to why the fuck Desmond is so important... I mean, seriously, having done the maths it strikes me that they could have chosen any random git and had the same result...

Probably something trite and cliché.

Oh how I wish it were set in one of these:
- 1848 revolutions
- Red October and ensuing civil war (maybe even Stalin's purges)
- unification of Italy
- ancient Rome
- ancient Japan

Really, anything but the inevitable American Civil War setting.

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