Outside of Blair Witch 2, which I never watched, every single Movie Defense Force has been movies that I enjoyed, and spend a while not even realizing that they are disliked by many. Freddy Versus Jason is definitely a stupid slasher flick, but it is very good at being a slasher flick, and I was genuinely impressed at how they made the disparate mythos fit together in clever ways.
Also, how someone can go from Jason X to this and say that THIS is bad is beyond me.
It's debatable if Versus had better special effects than the original Nightmare on Elm Street. I mean, do you remember the face-in-the-walls-and-ceiling scenes? That shit was dope.
I was waiting for this one, since it being in the intro genuinely gave me a surprise. I had heard grumblings about Friday the 13th fans feeling that Jason was misused in the film, but I mainly came from the other camp and had an absolute blast.
I also agree for the most part with the review, but I'm not entirely sold on the concept of FvJ being the best visually out of either series. The best off of Jason's plate, maybe, but some of the NoES films really took the fact that there's pretty much no limit to stages you could plop Freddy in and ran with it. Ol' Burnface has slashed his way through an unearthly cathedral, a minotaur-worthy labyrinth made out of boiler-room equipment, M.C. Escher's stairways, a literal planet-sized junkyard, the moment of his own conception in the prison of a hundred maniacs, and the magic schoolbus.
The actual scripts could vary from okay to godawful, but those sets man. Those sets.
I was under the impression this movie was almost universally enjoyed.
Surprising choice for a defense force episode from my perspective.
Next you'll tell me we need to defend Rocky 4 or Commando.
As for the video I pretty much agree with everything.
The original Nightmare movie would be the closest contender for best flick out of the bunch but that's really just preference.
yeah, the idea is good and was amusing to watch. has some good kills in it and compared to the previous titles, it is better made. maybe i will watch it again when i see it in my rental store.
btw, i have the feeling he will do the fifth element one day.
I was 14, didn't have any preconceived ideas about how this could or "should" play out. I was just a kid who was a pretty big Jason fan (I don't know why...and that bugs me) and I really honestly couldn't even make sense of the match up but none the less I went to the theatre an excited kid and ended up really really enjoying it.
And I still do to this day as I have matured and grown a pretty fierce hatred for horror movies since Cabin in the Woods pretty much became the ultimate "holy wood horror movie" to me both changing the game while revealing and poking fun at the rules of the old one (modern Scream?) <<<wow run on sentence.
I have seen All of the Nightmare on Elm Street films, as well as own them (Box Set, with the 3-D glasses, and I own the VHS Unrated Cut of Elm Street 5), but I have seen none of the Friday the 13th movies (I didn't want boobs, I wanted story, even at a young age).
I still kind of enjoy Freddy V. Jason in a strange sort of way, but is it better then the Seven Elm Street Movies? Not hardly.
The First Elm Street started the franchise, and it's still undeniably creepy in spots.
Elm Street 2 is the black sheep, but it's the one I defend because of the psychological aspects. It was trying to not be Wes Craven's movie, and it succeeds because it isn't trying to mimic Elm Street 1, it is its own film. I would love to go more into it, because I have legitimate defense for why Elm Street 2 is actually the better film out of the entire series. It's more creepy, unnerving, dark and uncomfortable. Jim, if you should decide to do a Movie Defense Force for Elm Street 2, I'd love to hear what you think about it.
Elm Street 3 is actually not the 2nd best, it's just more technologically advanced. Special Effects do not a good movie make. It is fun, but no where near as enjoyable as many people make it out to be.
Elm Street 4 is fine, but monotonous. By that point, it was Freddy Jumping the shark.
Elm Street 5 is the worst of the entire series. A pregnant woman being involved with the story would make an entertaining idea, but it isn't used to near its full effect, and with the only highlights of the film being the deaths (which aren't that good, unrated or not), it's by and large, the worst film.
Freddy's Dead is silly, with cameos abound and a Looney Tunes like Freddy for the majority of the film, but as bad as it is, it's still fun to watch.
New Nightmare is probably the 2nd best, after Elm Street 2 and 3. It used whatever Wes Craven could salvage out of the monster he made in 1984 with Elm Street 1 and condensed it into an uncomfortable and brilliant meta film.
FVJ isn't a bad movie, but I do agree, it felt rather anemic, at least, from what I can say of Freddy's Films.
Still, not a bad film.
I fully agree with you Jim I never saw why people hated this film so much i ultimately delivered on its promise of the said fight and it was a very good battle overall.
I cant wait for Your Hellraiser 3 review thats another one of my favs from the series and i was unaware that people hated them especially with all the bad sequels post the giant space cube hellraiser movie.
Hmmm, I don't know...
I will agree with the fact that both franchises are pretty much stupid as hell - though sometimes entertaining - but I still think Nightmare on Elm Street 3 is a better film. Story? Meh. There were creative deaths and good special effects to go with them. The smoking girl getting her face smashed into the TV and the muscled woman slowly turning into a cockroach were way more memorable to me than anything that happened in Freddy Vs. Jason.
The cockroach women is from Nightmare 4 not 3 yeah i know they all kinda blend together.
Whelp, there goes my credibility. Though the third one did have the guy being led to his death like a puppet with strings made from his own flesh, right? That was still pretty memorable.
Yeah that's the one the 3rd one takes place mostly at a asylum for teenagers and the 4th one takes placer mostly at a high school and has the highlarious scene of the martial arts guy fighting a invisible Freddy.
"Freddy vs. Jason is better than any single Nightmare on Elm Street or Friday the 13th movie."
Wes Craven's New Nightmare would like to have a word with you.
This was NOT a better film than the originals in their respective series. However, Jim is right that if you go into it knowing what Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Street basically were, you will appreciate it more. The movie isn't trying to be award winning and it's downright funny at times. It's still one of my favorites and a really fun film bringing two of the best horror movie villains together for an epic showdown.
I agree that this movie is better than most of Nightmares or Fridays movies, except the first Friday the 13th. That movie got deep into me, I think because Jason wasn't there.
And that the killer's motive and identity were truly terrifying in perspective.
I was unaware this movie was considered bad by any stretch of the imagination. I really haven't watched the Friday the 13th movies, save the first one, so I can't comment on them. But I did watch the Nightmare on Elm Street movies. All of them. In a row. In an ill-advised marathon. Of all... eight of the Freddy movies, barring the recent reboot, the three worthwhile movies are the first one, Wes Craven's New Nightmare, and Freddy Vs. Jason and I would consider Freddy Vs. Jason to be the most entertaining of the three. The rest are crap, especially Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors. What a shitload of fuck that movie was. Why is that one considered good in any way?
The Nightmare on Elm Street, and presumably, the Friday the 13th movies are cinematic junk food. They're not supposed to be scare. They're a fun amusement park ride. Freddy vs. Jason is probably the best of that lot because the killer that they're afraid of is the one that's chasing them at the moment. Freddy and Jason both become a savior of the main characters for a brief moment before reverting to a menace. this helps keep things fresh and changing. Sort of like the end of Jurassic Park when the T-Rex saves them from the raptors (spoilers. Sorry). The thing that was a terrifying menace before is now an erstwhile savior and while they wouldn't high five the t-rex for saving them any more than you'd high five Freddy when he injects Jason with all those sedatives, the audience feels this reversal and it maintains interest much, much longer than always being afraid of this killer, or even two killers. Older horror movies did this, such as the scene where Frankenstein's monster befriends the blind dude or that little girl. You get to sympathize for the monster and see there's something to it besides being scary and likely killing people. There really isn't anything else to jason or Freddy, so playing them off each other was the only thing to do.
So I really like Freddy Vs. Jason. Wish I still had the DVD. I could go for watching it a bit right now.
I enjoyed Freddy Vs Jason. My only problem with this movie is that Ronny Yu used the wrong opening/closing for the theatrical release. The alternate opening/closing on the dvd were way better. Sadly there's no option on the disc for just using them either.
Interesting stuff - not a fan of slasher movies but you make some good points.
Just a quick shout out to the Escapist folks though - shouldn't this video have come with an age-restriction intro? There was some seriously unpleasant stuff on there.
I would have agreed with you, but you said that NOES original movie was garbage. that was the best slasher movie out there.
I didn't know people thought this one was so terrible. I have watched every F13 and Nightmare movie, and while they are enjoyable they aren't... you know... GOOD MOVIES. They serve their function well enough, some a LOT more than others. If you expect something OTHER than what the series have always served up, you're delusional.
For my money, FvJ is certainly BAD... but it's the GOOD kind of bad. The hilarious, over-the-top bad that only slasher movies really provide, and this one tops it off by being pretty good both on plot and acting. So, pretty cool.
especially Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors. What a shitload of fuck that movie was. Why is that one considered good in any way?
Agreed, and yet... it is a masterpiece compared to the reboot :P
Funnily enough, it ended exactly the way I thought it was going to. Both companies have worked on the script for over 15 years and it went through a million rewrites.
Also, the quality of actors in the modern ones are just as good as what came before. With obvious exceptions of Depp and Fishbourne, who were not there yet in their careers.
Really good video with a lot of valid points!
I have to say, about this series... Jim, I love the series, but hate the intro and outro. Get some better theme music and graphics for Season 2 or whatever.
Although I mostly agree with you, I'm afraid I have disagree with you on the idea that Freddy vs Jason is the BEST of both series. If I were building a list, it would probably go:
Nightmare on Elm Street
Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors
Wes Craven's new Nightmare
Freddy Vs. Jason
I Don't Care For Any Of The Other Movies In These Franchises So They All Tie For Last (IDCFANOMINTFSTATFL for short)
I in no way think this film is as bad as people give it credit for being, but better then the old movies? I am not sure about that, I found a lot of the older Freddy movies a bit more creative and fun, but that's not to say they weren't all technically bad movies. I liked Freddy vs. Jason, but honestly it was just underwhelming. Not because it wasn't 'epic', but because it just wasn't quite as fun or creative as I wanted it to be. Maybe because Jason was involved, and I always found him and his movies kind of meh. I mean, hes a zombie... with a knife. Just not my cup of tea.
Jim, please keep these coming. Your views on these movies (which I, and I'm sure many others, had simply neglected to even consider briefly before) are not only intriguing but fun too! For a show which I had no expectations for, Movie Defense Force has rapidly become one of the most anticipated shows in my week. Thanks for the great stuff, Jim. And always keep that chungus coming.
Freddy vs. Jason is a great movie, but fans of both series hate it because it's not a horror movie at all: It's literally Freddy vs. Jason, in the same tradition as Godzilla vs. [insert name of monster here].
Never saw the movie but always watched the first 5 minutes on the pay per view channels because of the skinny dipping chick ;)
Hey that was fun too. I like this new stuff Jim. Keep it up.
I presume you're getting a mountain of requests, but I'd like to mention a few (semi-)terrible movies I'm a huge fan of (in that embarrassing kind of way). I've always loved The Craft, but especially the more recent film SKYLINE.
Grossly hammered by critics ... but holy shit what a freakin' cool movie. I remembered watching one reviewer in particular bitch about how the main character has no development in the story and just rrrrrrrrrraging. He goes from 'oh shit, you're pregnant?! I don't think this is gonna work out ...' to becoming Daddy Hulk. That's a pretty big fuckin' development. It's like Hitler starting the movie as a genocidal maniac and ending up running a small orphanage for Jewish children.
I absolutely LOVED this movie when I saw it in theaters and I think part of that is that I, and a group of friends, had just gone back and watched a couple of the originals, so there were no rose-tinted lenses and, yeah, agree with Jim absolutely. Came in expecting:
1) Gory, ridiculous kills
2) Freddy and Jason throwing down
3) Some T&A
The movie absolutely delivered 3/3 and more (THANK YOU for acknowledging the plot is ACTUALLY pretty great by series standards! I think that gets lost in the discussion a great deal).
Jim's going to have to do a MDF on how the Friday the 13th movies could possibly be better than the Nightmare on elm st's, it's a claim he made in this piece that both requires backing up and would also make for interesting content.
The Fridays are okay, there's plenty of content and squirm, but frankly the Nightmares are better aligned, more comprehensive and hold better congruence.
Thank god for Jim.
To be honest, I like both Freddy VS Jason and the Nightmare series (and Friday the 13th to some smaller extent). I completely agree that FvJ is better than it has any right to be and that it's way to integrate both movies' settings is a lot more clever than could be expected of something like this. The result is a completely enjoyable and fun slasher flick.
I disagree somewhat that VS is better than any Nightmare film, though, but I guess that's a matter of taste.
next week on no right answer, which is worse, Freddy vs Jason or Aliens vs Predator.
but no, seriously, I didnt mind Freddy vs Jason when I saw it. I thought it was pretty decent for what it was.
"...but we/all of us have to accept they're almost all universally, dreadfully garbage. Once we do that, we can accept a very simple truth: Freddy versus Jason is better than any single movie installment of either series."
While you do go on to defend your opinion, this statement has me bashing my head into a wall.
No, I am not being a fan boy here. The contrast between those two sentences is just maddening.
My only disappointments in the movie was that the best kill was in the first 5 minutes, & that the alternative ending where Freddy wins wasn't the default ending.
Been a favourite of mine for quite a while because it's a crossover, the main characters are essentially immortal for reasons no one actually cares about going into enough to screw it up, and honestly? It's entirely aware of how ridiculous it could be, but still plays the funny bits funny, and the gore/deaths 'properly' in that people die, and there's no terrible effects.
I watched it a $2 theater with some friends who had also seen most of the slasher movies from the Freddy and Jason slasher flick days. We loved it because we remembered just how cheesy the slasher movie period was and we didn't mind laughing about which victims spent lots of money on their boob job.
Given some of the attempts to revive film series Freddy vs Jason is far better than it has any right to be. Without the cheese it would have missed the spirit of the original films, but it also had enough thought put into it that there was a good reason for Freddy and Jason to go slicing and dicing on each other in an over the top undead battle.
I went into FvJ expecting the following:
Some humans that I don't really care about and will ultimately be picked off one by one.
I got everything I expected and wanted from the film and I enjoyed it greatly.