The Big Picture: Enough With The Batman Already!

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 NEXT
 

I personally had be wondering why the hell they were debating about what to do with Batman, when the one of the trio they need to focus on getting right is Wonder Woman. Nothing in media outside the comics with her name on it has been successful, which is a friggin Greek tragedy. (See what I did there?)

They need to get Diana right without screwing things up, especially since as a little girl I was always a huge fan. Well, up until they started to lean too heavy on the sex during the late 90's after the advent of Gen 13's Fairchild. Oh, and WB, if you do decide to focus on one or two "lesser" known DC characters, don't go the easy route and pick Powergirl. For the love of God don't pick Powergirl. I like her, she's amusing, but I know what Hollywood will do with her.

When I think of Batman the word 'urban' comes to mind. That sort of style has been pretty big with the 'yoof' who are the main demographic for this sort of thing. People might think that comics are the domain of the nerd, but the truth is that's not been the case for some time. Your regular batman watcher plays CoD, listens to to their iphone on the back of the bus and calls each other bumbaclot ironicly. They like being the bad boy, they like the power of the individual, they like their technology and toys and they are angry. They like batman.

Now, when I think Superman the word 'metropolitan' comes to mind. Superman's world is hopeful, profesional, moral. It promotes monogomy and building a better world. It's traditional but also out of touch. Like it or not, our world is much more like Gotham than Metropolis and contains far more young angry Bruce Waynes than successful Clark Kents.

So who is this new Superman film going to be made for? Are they going to try and throw in some urban flavor so that it isn't alien to the masses. I noticed from the trailer that superman's suit is more a silver-grey then vivid blue. What other ways are they going to appropriate the current climate into superman's character?

I think a major pull with The Batman is that noone knows what he's capable of or what he's going to do next.
While most super heroes tend to solve their confrontations and conflicts by using their powers (PUNCHING!!!), Batman needs to rise to the occasion every single time and ruthlessly exploit whatever weakness he can find. While also doing quite a lot of punching.
I agree that his place in the Justice League is greatly exaggerated (bullshit plot armor, as someone said previously), but his presence in the Justice League is key.
Doesn't really matter though, I think most DC characters are pretty lame.

I don't want to see bad Batman. I don't want to see Batman and Robin Batman; I don't want to see "Batman as reliable and therefore inevitable cash cow." I had mixed reactions to the last of the Nolan Batmans, though ultimately I thought it was reasonably enjoyable (so long as you didn't think about it too hard); still, I'm glad that it ended, rather than stringing along until everyone who was working on it was completely sick of it.

But a lot of the analysis of Batman that desires to be critical of the character seems to run kind of shallow. Okay, yeah, arguably a shallow character, but that's beside the point. He can be played as incongruously mortal comrade to a roster of demigods, or as mentally unhinged avenger who may be as sick as the people he hunts, or the guy who only gets to play in these leagues because he's rich, but that's particular aspects that different writers and directors choose to emphasize. There have been interesting stories written about Batman that play up entirely different ones.

If I'm concerned about more Batman, it's not because of the Batman character, but because of the potential for a crummy rush job in making a Batman presence someone feels is obligatory. I refuse to say out of hand "no more Batman"; there could be someone out there who could make a new Batman that would be fantastic, and I'd be daft to suggest I'd rather see a bad Wonder Woman or Flash or Green Lantern story than a good Batman story. If making a good Batman takes another five or six years, maybe that's for the best. But if an awesome screenplay showed up on someone's desk that happened to be especially well suited to tie into a Justice League franchise?... Well, why not?

The only person I could see playing the joker without being like 'overshadowed' by ledger (at least in my mind) is Mark Hamill.
:)

Noooooo we can never get enough Batman! Personally I think that as long as the games (Arkham-games) and the movies (Nolan triology) continues to be of so high standard, by all means please continue making them. Its when the movies and/or games go into Schumacher and bat-nipples territory that we might need a break, but only from the bad Bat-movies.

I've been having this argument with friends for a while now. The crus of their argument is "How do you make a Batman movie that fits in well with the more, for lack of a better term "comic booky" concepts of the JLA without suffering thematic whiplash coming off of Nolan's run?

My argument is pretty much the same that was given here. You don't need a new Batman movie, at least not right away.
You don't need to copy the Avengers formula to...copy the Avengers formula. By which I mean each character doesn't need their own film series before jumping into the JLA.

You can mention Bruce Wayne in Man of Steel as the chief business rival of Lex Luthor or mention that Wayne Industries just acquired the Daily Planet. If you want to do the Fighter Pilot meets the Amazons story for Wonder Woman do a little jiggery pokery and viola! Steve Trevor is a WayneTech test pilot.

What I'm getting at here is that you can have Batman all over the place in your JLA setup films without having to retrofit him into the actual story.

Jennacide:
I personally had be wondering why the hell they were debating about what to do with Batman, when the one of the trio they need to focus on getting right is Wonder Woman. Nothing in media outside the comics with her name on it has been successful, which is a friggin Greek tragedy. (See what I did there?)

The best she's been was in her original TV/movie series and the Animated universe. Her Animated movie was really good :)

ninjaRiv:
I

I'm a bit fed up of people hating on Batman in this way. I'm fine with folk not liking him, that's fine! Fine! It's not liking him because he's overexposed or because he has no superpowers or because his main thing is thinking ahead that bothers me. Batman is kind of a genius. Not even kind of. He IS a genius. He has plans with how to deal with every super being known to man, he's an expert fighter- ah, you know the rest.

Imagine a world were Batman barely had any exposure, and say it was Superman who was all over the place and every other Superman related thing took potshots at how much better Superman is then Batman. Welcome to how fans of any DC hero NOT Batman has been living in SINCE THE 90's.

Batman does not need to be the ONLY hero on display form the DCU and he sure don't need to be better then every other DC hero and villains all put together.

THAT'S what people are sick of.

Jman1236:
Want a different take on the dark knight, in the 1990's Takara and sunrise did just that. When the child of a millionare cuple gets killed, he inherts there locomotive company and desides to fight crime. However since this is the future(and japan, not that's a bad thing) all the criminals use giant robots, so what does he do? He makes a giant robot out of a giant train....and it was awesome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmm8klRP6Jg

hold on...rich guy

fights crime in a giant robot...

We need a Big O movie

shadowmagus:
1) I actually agree with Bob that maybe it is time to put Batman away for awhile and lets try making GOOD (and I emphasis that word) movies for the other characters in the DC canon.

2) I disagree that Batman has nothing to bring to the table. The truth is that in many cases, Batman is capable of doing what the others heroes can't or won't do. Make no mistake, in that little list of super humans Bob rattled off, none of them are a half-decent detective and I wouldn't trust any of them to do any kind of real infiltration. Sorry Bob, but just because you're tired of him doesn't mean he isn't one of the most important parts of the Justice League for more then just "being Batman".

Reason I dislike Batman is that he's a selfish prick who refuses to kill to appease his own little delusion of morality. He's cool, yes, but we need less of him.

And here's the thing: DC doesn't make good heroes. They do, however, make the greatest villains in history.

ThrobbingEgo:
His power is being the goddamn Batman.

He's Deus Ex Machina and Mary Sue incarnate.

NathanS:

ninjaRiv:
I

I'm a bit fed up of people hating on Batman in this way. I'm fine with folk not liking him, that's fine! Fine! It's not liking him because he's overexposed or because he has no superpowers or because his main thing is thinking ahead that bothers me. Batman is kind of a genius. Not even kind of. He IS a genius. He has plans with how to deal with every super being known to man, he's an expert fighter- ah, you know the rest.

Imagine a world were Batman barely had any exposure, and say it was Superman who was all over the place and every other Superman related thing took potshots at how much better Superman is then Batman. Welcome to how fans of any DC hero NOT Batman has been living in SINCE THE 90's.

Batman does not need to be the ONLY hero on display form the DCU and he sure don't need to be better then every other DC hero and villains all put together.

THAT'S what people are sick of.

I... Kind of already said I think that they need more exposure. Pretty sure it was at the end of the post you quoted. In fact, I said I'd rather see a Flash movie over a Justice League one with Batman. I like Flash as much as Batsy.

ObsidianJones:

Reminded me of this:


And the other thing that bothers me is how impossible being "always prepared" is or how people act like batman is the only "thinking hero" who doesn't solve problems through punching.

WB needs to Power Girl the shit out of the box office!

Lol, just kidding about that. Seriously, I think that WB should try to get a better go at the Green Lantern Corps. I always figured that the Justice League does not work well by itself without Superman, the goddamn Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, and, I guess, Aquaman. They could probably replace Aquaman with Congo Bill and it wouldn't make any difference. With one not so good Green Lantern movie out, WB should try to make a better sequel with someone like, I don't know, Geoff (freakin'!) Johns as head writer. Maybe also skip over Hal Jordan and go straight to Guy Gardener or Kyle Rayner.

Either way, WB should get to fixin' Green Lantern and maybe some good Martian Manhunter before Marvel finds a way to get X-Men from Fox and make Avengers vs. X-Men.

Gorfias:

OtherSideofSky:
Outside of the proposed Justice League movie itself, I definitely don't want to see any more Batman for a while.

I'd love another Batman movie tomorrow. Seriously, there are so many interpretations of the character they could do one tomorrow very different from Nolan's vision and we'd still have something fresh.

My hope is we see the Batman and the world of Arkham City brought to the big screen.

I agree with Bob in that, they're going to have to work hard to make Bruce Wayne relevant with alien Jesuses around and not seem silly.

My bet: they can do it. Bring it on!

Don't get me wrong: I'm perfectly aware of how much room there is to do things with the Batman character (personally, I'd like something with a bit more color and less rubber armor next time around; maybe with a touch of pulp adventure to it or even a straight-up detective story) and his world, but I feel ready to take a break from him for awhile. Between all the movies and games and comics and TV shows, there's just so much Batman around that I'm just burned out on his whole world at the moment.

Also, past experience has given me a significantly less optimistic view of how well made the Justice League film, if it ever materializes, will actually be.

i do not want to see anymore whiny emo batman that cannot detect that his ceo is his enemies daughter, nm why she drags it out when she any number of opportunities to outright kill him.

nor do i want anymore of the nolan oh i will quit being batman after like 2 years because i am the gdamn batman.

far as plot armor batman goes he was wearing one of darkseeds troopers armor, and he is not a average human he is the ultimate specmine of human potential yadda yadda, i mean the guy can leap like 12 feet into the air in the comic wo breaking a hamstring. and he is generally built like a steroid junky.

also might point out that darkseed was holding back with batman clearly, if he had hit him with his full power he would have squished batman like a bug, ds is a god. batman had changed his codes and had the key to disarm them so his entire planet would not be burnt to a molten ball, even tho that would not have killed ds, it would have killed a ton of his minions.

this is also the encounter that convinces DS that he needs batman for his ultimate army. which plays out in final crisis/batman rip.

we do not need to know where batman came form or that his parents were shot we know who the man is that i can agree with, maybe it is time they look to make good batman stories rather than telling the same ones over and over and tinkering with the details.

Time to make a Nightwing movie SO THAT WE CAN PUT BATMAN IN IT!

Anyone remember the Justice League: Unlimited episode "Epilogue"?

The world will always need a Batman.

Yeah, Ill take a pass on the opinion of someone who swooned over captain America and thought the Avengers film wasnt the boring repetitive rip off of Transformers that it was.

Easy way to reboot Green Lantern. Act like the first one didn't happen and redo it but pretty much lift the script of Training Day and put it in space. Sealed and done. I'd watch the hell out of that. Wonder Woman, have her first movie her fighting an intrusion of mythological creatures who have invaded the US. The Flash would be a great disaster movie witha super fast guy and a bad guy behind it. Think that one run away train movie or hell a Speed esque movie but with the flash in the second half of the movie. He's well loved in his home city, show us why.

werewolfsfury:
how people act like batman is the only "thinking hero" who doesn't solve problems through punching.

I find that attitude somewhat amusing. Because I feel it relates to a big reason Bats is doing better then some most other DC heroes. Hold, on because this is about to get nerdy. Batman is seen as the "thinking hero" because he has no powers, and because for a long time now the Super Hero genre has been and seen mainly as an action genre, it's about "how do you beat up the bad guy." in such a genre, a character not having powers would put them to a focus as the planner.

This is way you get "DC heroes are boring, they're all too powerful!" but when most of those guys were made, or were being supped up to godlike power levels it was the Silver Age and DC Silver Age comics were NOT action focused. You read them not see how Sups could beat up some dude, but to see wacky places and powers, and uses of powers. Villains were almost all of the puzzle box verity, "Superman has to be in two places at once! what creative use of his powers will he use to solve this?" types stuff was the norm, beating up villain directly was always impossible, and far from the point.

Back then all of DC heroes were thinking heroes.

I was bored of Batman before he was even popular. Random rich guy with a bunch of gadgets and a homoerotic suit beats up bad guys. Woo. So exciting... compared to Superman, Alien Jesus. Yea, I can see why Batman is more popular. /eyeroll

I watch superhero movies for the "super" part. There's nothing "super" about Batman except his bank account. He's boring. He's mundane. He's ordinary. His only remarkable trait is courage, which EVERY superhero has.

I have two things to say about this:

1. Yeah, Batman should take a break. I really don't want to start rolling my eyes every time I hear his name, like I do with Chuck Norris.

2. In the picture for the video, with all the different Batmen, it looks like Nolan-Batman has a tiny Arkham-Batman on propping himself up on his shoulder, not entirely unlike a parrot on a pirate captain.

teamcharlie:
Here's one immediate, easy way to make Batman new again: Adam West him the fuck up. Make him an archaic, ridiculous symbol of oldschool machismo, bring back the sexy 60s-looking ladies to fawn over and/or catwoman him, give him one of his sillier opponents to fight as a B-plot with waves of implausible goons and make everything as goofy as possible.

Oooo... And watch the nerdcore explode as they realize he's NOT dark and edgy.
I'd pay to see that. I really would.

I'm not so much tired of Batman movies but tired of not having any good DC movies other then Batman.

holy crap the metal poster (don't know the proper terminology)is the same one i have in my room right next to me while i watched this video whats even weirder is the fact that ever since one of the nails holding it up came loose it has been tilting at the angle shown in the video my laziness paid off!

The obvious thing to do is to bring in Batman cold, without a movie, than have him have a surprise backstory that causes him to betray the entire League, or pretend to betray the entire League in order to find out who the real villain is, or the person who is introduced as Batman is actually Batmite or something. Essentially Batman is a wildcard because the movie plays with our expectations of who he is.

Yup not gonna happen.

Ted Kord and Booster Gold could make a great duo film, joining the League afterward.

Heck, Jaime Reyes, the third Blue Beetle would be an awesome one, you do do the whole Reach storyline and have his film finish with Endgame, leading him to be noticed by the more recognized heroes and asked to join the League. I'd love to see that.

I don't think it's possible to be "Batmaned" out. A Justice League movie without Batman and Superman's relationship playing a pivotal role in how Superman operates just won't be Justice League.

Batman is so vital to the Justice League as he's the only member of the "inner circle" without super powers. He is there to keep them all in check by employing methods that any average human could use to bring them down provided they had the resources or knowledge of what the weaknesses are.

The number of times Batman is recorded to have prevented Superman from doing something really destructive or stupid to the Justice League's reputation is nearly countless.

Batman is to Justice League as Iron Man & Captain America (COMBINED) are to The Avengers.

Dear Bob: Here's a hint: When people read your title and subconsciously equate it to "CUT IT OUT GUYSSSSSS", it's hard to take you seriously, especially when people who've been watching your videos already kinda got the hint that you're really not interested in seeing Batman media, media that you could just... you know, STOP partaking in.

"On an asset that's not that vital"

I almost stopped watching here for just how idiotic that sounded. Are you really suggesting- to everyone on the Escapist- that audiences everywhere would sit down and see a Justice League film without Batman, despite them having rights to it (unlike how The Avengers couldn't have Spider-Man, because the producers had a legitimate legal reason not to use him), and not question his absence? Really, Bob?

"Do they really need to be putting this much effort... into Batman?

It's getting increasingly harder and harder to take you seriously. HELL YES they need to take making what they do next with Batman into large consideration, because out of all of the superhero films that Warner Bros. has produced in the past fucking decade, only Batman was consistently commercially and critically successful. And hate Rises all you want, but its predecessor raised the bar for superhero films (proving that they could be intelligent and instead of using superheroes as the main dead-center of every action going on, as instead rather a huge player in the bigger picture of what's going on in a setting), and considering its present commercial viability, whatever WB does next with Batman, it has to not suck.

Snip about Batman's simple presence being enough to make a Justice League flick work

It won't work, according to the standards you've already set. If it's Nolan's bat-verse, it'd require Christian Bale (or Joseph Gordon-Levitt, maybe?), and if it was an entirely new Justice League-verse, would it have audiences demand a new Batman series? I mean, audiences besides you?

[suggestion of using other DC IPs they have access to]

Okay, that's... probably the best suggestion you've had for a while, now, if only because of the extraordinarily slim chance of a film about The Question:

Some good points but not really a coherent argument. You pointed out yourself how difficult it will be to make a new Batman movie that is accepted well in the coming years but if they don't have one then they are potentially missing out on the major draw of the Justice League movie. Right now pretty much no-one gives a crap about any DC hero that isn't Batman and WB can't make a Justice League movie no-one is interested in just because people liked the Avengers.

So a good Batman movie running up to the Justice League is pretty much necessary and very difficult. It's going to be a big deal no matter what. Of course if Man of Steel tanks then maybe they should just give up on the whole thing. But then they're in a position where Batman needs to breathe but he's the only character that doesn't tank horrendously.

You know, I used to think that Batman over-saturation at the expense of the rest of the DC universe was a problem with the movies, but now Cartoon Network is cancelling their awesome and original Green Lantern cartoon in favor of a new Batman Cartoon, "Beware the Batman." Which, if the action figure line is any indication, is going to be an even more obvious toy shill than Ben Ten, with an art design so stylized it almost looks outright LAZY. But we all know how Cartoon Network seems to gravitate away from interesting and well made shows that grab a wide audience (Samurai Jack, Megas XLR, Symbionic Titan, Thundercats, etc) in favor of pandering toy commercials nowadays so it's not a surprise. At least Adventure Time and Regular Show are pretty secure, of course they have the much safer time slot.

Maybe? Maybe?

MB202:
Bob mentioned this in one of his Junk Draw episodes, in that we drove Boba Fett and Chuck Norris into the ground, now we're doing the same with Batman... I guess that WAS enough to fill out and episode episode.

'Course, we drove Batman into the ground well before either was a thing, and neither were worth driving into the ground in the first place. Hell, the Chuck Norris craze was the failure to recognise a parody.

Now, I thin kthe big thing with Batman and filling an episode is that circumstances have changed.

Spot1990:

ThrobbingEgo:

LadyRhian:
I was trying to think about what villain WB could bring to the table that could be powerful enough to take on the entire Justice League... and the only thing I came up with is Darkseid, And Batman dealing with Darkseid would be like nipples on a Batsuit-unnecessary, as well as outclassed.

Quick question: Do you know who Batman is? Due to writers compensating for putting the guy in a batsuit on a team with demigods, Batman has become the most feared and ruthless hero of DC's entire roster. His power is being the goddamn Batman.

That video sums up everything that's wrong with Batman. Batman's a normal human, that's his sell. Yet Darkseid (who can beat down Superman, who in turn has the strength to move planets) can punch him through a concrete pillar and Batman doesn't turn to soup. Superman can move faster than light and could punch someone into the sun, it doesn't matter how prepared you are, you're not reacting to that quickly enough. Batman has the ultimate super power, bullshit plot armour.

To be fair, Darkseid isn't trying to kill Batman, Bruce is visibly injured, and it's a PG13 film.

That said, I personally enjoy the absurdity of Batman's lack of acknowledged powers.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here