The Big Picture: Enough With The Batman Already!

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Regarding the power issues of the many jesus' of DC...

I wondered how they would deal with the Thor, the god of thunder, kicking too much ass in The Avengers...
But they made it work :)

I wish people (In this case, MovieBob.) who openly profess to be fans of a particular intellectual property (In this case, Batman.) would just gracefully give up on something that they've clearly outgrown. It's kind of sad when people try to turn something into a glassy-eyed wax memorial of a past affection, instead of letting it grow in a direction they don't particularly care for.

As someone who has never followed, read, or watched any Justice League fiction, how did they get the whole "team of people with god-like powers" to work in the first place? Even more god-like enemies?

The Avengers have got some tough people, like the Hulk, Thor and his magic hammer, and Captain America. But they don't hold a candle to Mr. Arbitrarily-Fast, Mr. Arbitrarily-Fast-plus-Arbitrarily-Strong, and Mr. Can Wish Anything Into Existence With a Magic Ring. It just doesn't seem like the type of thing that will work that well in a movie short of making the stakes absurdly huge, never mind a series of movies where the temptation is going to be to constantly re-up the intensity and re-capture what sold the first movie.

But then again, what do I know? As long as Wonder Woman looks hot, there's tons of explosions and action scenes, and either a melodramatic or funny plot, it will probably make a ton of money overseas.

I wouldn't mind a blue beetle movie.

ThrobbingEgo:

Spot1990:

ThrobbingEgo:

Quick question: Do you know who Batman is? Due to writers compensating for putting the guy in a batsuit on a team with demigods, Batman has become the most feared and ruthless hero of DC's entire roster. His power is being the goddamn Batman.

That video sums up everything that's wrong with Batman. Batman's a normal human, that's his sell. Yet Darkseid (who can beat down Superman, who in turn has the strength to move planets) can punch him through a concrete pillar and Batman doesn't turn to soup. Superman can move faster than light and could punch someone into the sun, it doesn't matter how prepared you are, you're not reacting to that quickly enough. Batman has the ultimate super power, bullshit plot armour.

To be fair, Darkseid isn't trying to kill Batman, Bruce is visibly injured, and it's a PG13 film.

That said, I personally enjoy the absurdity of Batman's lack of acknowledged powers.

Yeah but humans are squishier than concrete. If you throw a human at concrete with enough force to break the concrete then you'll break the human. I know it's a cartoon but you can't hold up Batman just being a human as a major reason for his coolness then have him do clearly inhuman things.

completely agree. i been saying enough of batman 3 years ago and im still of that opinion. we need to explore other, better heroes.

GamemasterAnthony:

Sylocat:
Unfortunately, Bob's complaints will fall on deaf ears, since WB doesn't give a shit about anything besides money, and they're not even all that good at predicting what will make money.

Sad but true...and you could actually apply this to ALL companies since the recent trend seems to be to redo everything that is "safe" enough to make money. See: All the grey-brown shooters.

oh for fucks sake..

really? I mean REALLY? your going to pull the "brown shooter" card? thats so friggrn 2008 its not funny..seriously, tell me hoq many brown shooters have we actually had besides COD?...warfighter? well everyone knows that was crap

OtherSideofSky:

Don't get me wrong: I'm perfectly aware of how much room there is to do things with the Batman character (personally, I'd like something with a bit more color and less rubber armor next time around; maybe with a touch of pulp adventure to it or even a straight-up detective story) and his world, but I feel ready to take a break from him for awhile. Between all the movies and games and comics and TV shows, there's just so much Batman around that I'm just burned out on his whole world at the moment.

Also, past experience has given me a significantly less optimistic view of how well made the Justice League film, if it ever materializes, will actually be.

I'd love to see a more colorful Batman. Blue cape and cowl sorta thing. I do want hints that there is some bullet proofing to his outfit. He is not to be Ironman, but you have to think he'd do something to protect himself.

Increasingly these days, I don't worry too much about bad movies when it comes to franchise properties (although they happen) but meh stuff. Just saw Die Hard 5 and it does not even closely compare to Die Hard 4. It was by the numbers. The story was not logical. I'm not talking plot holes. I'm talking about not making sense and not really trying to do so. They just figured, put big explosions on the screen and people will like it. So, it was a 2.5/5 type of deal.

Even Avengers Phantom Menace battle ending showed signs of studio types saying, "OK, we got to rap this part up." even if it made no sense. (The invaders weren't centrally controlled robots: they were sentient aliens, the Skrull equivalent in a Marvel universe). So, I worry you are likely correct in that someone in power may say, just have them throw some costume types on screen. That will make them happy!

Spot1990:

ThrobbingEgo:

Spot1990:
That video sums up everything that's wrong with Batman. Batman's a normal human, that's his sell. Yet Darkseid (who can beat down Superman, who in turn has the strength to move planets) can punch him through a concrete pillar and Batman doesn't turn to soup. Superman can move faster than light and could punch someone into the sun, it doesn't matter how prepared you are, you're not reacting to that quickly enough. Batman has the ultimate super power, bullshit plot armour.

To be fair, Darkseid isn't trying to kill Batman, Bruce is visibly injured, and it's a PG13 film.

That said, I personally enjoy the absurdity of Batman's lack of acknowledged powers.

Yeah but humans are squishier than concrete. If you throw a human at concrete with enough force to break the concrete then you'll break the human. I know it's a cartoon but you can't hold up Batman just being a human as a major reason for his coolness then have him do clearly inhuman things.

That's artistic license. They're just letting you know Dark Seid is pissed off. But the plot works. You can believe Batman would break that code and make uncompromising demands what he'd learned. This is an excellent example of having Batman be relevant in the presence of so many demi-gods. In fact, more credible and important than, much as I like him, Captain America.

How about Batwoman?

undeadsuitor:

Jman1236:
Want a different take on the dark knight, in the 1990's Takara and sunrise did just that. When the child of a millionare cuple gets killed, he inherts there locomotive company and desides to fight crime. However since this is the future(and japan, not that's a bad thing) all the criminals use giant robots, so what does he do? He makes a giant robot out of a giant train....and it was awesome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmm8klRP6Jg

hold on...rich guy

fights crime in a giant robot...

We need a Big O movie

YOU READ MY FREAKING MIND!

image

Than again, I'm not quite sure how it would work without an actor with a spectacular voice like Steve Blum :(.

We don't always get what we want, and what we get is going to be different than what we wanted.

Might as well accept the inevitable and admit that the JLA movie will suck. Unless they do what Marvel did and have setup movies for at least the 3 main characters, then half the movie will be 3 origin stories shoehorned in with a big bad boss fight 40 minutes later. It will feel rushed and it will look rushed. Despite all this, they will keep making JLA movies because they think it will cut in to Marvel's money bin sized profits.

Spot1990:
Batman's a normal human, that's his sell.

And that a superior intellect will always be the ultimate superpower. Every time Batman either comes to the rescue to or jeopardizes the lives of the rest of the Justice League, they're pandering to every comic book nerd convinced that their 'superior intelligence' is the main reason behind them being social outcasts. Some of the people who're into comic books are very intelligent people with poor social skills, but I've met my fair share of delusional numbskulls with poor social skills too and they tend to put on airs and try to act far more intelligent then they really are.

Two birds, one stone. The stone is probably shaped like a bat.

WiseBass:
As someone who has never followed, read, or watched any Justice League fiction, how did they get the whole "team of people with god-like powers" to work in the first place? Even more god-like enemies?

The Avengers have got some tough people, like the Hulk, Thor and his magic hammer, and Captain America. But they don't hold a candle to Mr. Arbitrarily-Fast, Mr. Arbitrarily-Fast-plus-Arbitrarily-Strong, and Mr. Can Wish Anything Into Existence With a Magic Ring. It just doesn't seem like the type of thing that will work that well in a movie short of making the stakes absurdly huge, never mind a series of movies where the temptation is going to be to constantly re-up the intensity and re-capture what sold the first movie.

But then again, what do I know? As long as Wonder Woman looks hot, there's tons of explosions and action scenes, and either a melodramatic or funny plot, it will probably make a ton of money overseas.

What's up with this hang up of Batman being the only member with no superpowers forgetting another team member can be taken out with a number 2 pencil?
Seriously batman's intelligence and worldliness has more than in one occasion proved, useful. Most of the team can't do stealthy investigation or hack computers and like that Darkseid scene no one who else could convince someone like Darkseid he'd blow up a planet? Speaking of which Batman was wearing 2 kinds of armour to absorb most of the force (along with Darkseid's fist), if you can believe a man can fly let it go.

In the Timmverse (and animated world in general) most Superpowers where scaled down from the comic or movie counterparts what i liked about DC more than marvel was it had more none superpowered superheroes but that's me.

Really if they get Aquaman and WW right it'll be okay, make Batman's look Arkham City like, dial back Superman's powers and you have a movie. I do think Bob is right that they keep over-thinking and over-emphasizing Batman.

I love Batman He's a great character, but when it comes down to it. He's not needed for a Justice League team. One he's not a founding member and Two he isn't even in most versions of the team. Now for a movie you absolutely need him there but that's only because he'll bring in viewers.

Red X:

WiseBass:
As someone who has never followed, read, or watched any Justice League fiction, how did they get the whole "team of people with god-like powers" to work in the first place? Even more god-like enemies?

The Avengers have got some tough people, like the Hulk, Thor and his magic hammer, and Captain America. But they don't hold a candle to Mr. Arbitrarily-Fast, Mr. Arbitrarily-Fast-plus-Arbitrarily-Strong, and Mr. Can Wish Anything Into Existence With a Magic Ring. It just doesn't seem like the type of thing that will work that well in a movie short of making the stakes absurdly huge, never mind a series of movies where the temptation is going to be to constantly re-up the intensity and re-capture what sold the first movie.

But then again, what do I know? As long as Wonder Woman looks hot, there's tons of explosions and action scenes, and either a melodramatic or funny plot, it will probably make a ton of money overseas.

What's up with this hang up of Batman being the only member with no superpowers forgetting another team member can be taken out with a number 2 pencil?
Seriously batman's intelligence and worldliness has more than in one occasion proved, useful. Most of the team can't do stealthy investigation or hack computers and like that Darkseid scene no one who else could convince someone like Darkseid he'd blow up a planet? Speaking of which Batman was wearing 2 kinds of armour to absorb most of the force (along with Darkseid's fist), if you can believe a man can fly let it go.

In the Timmverse (and animated world in general) most Superpowers where scaled down from the comic or movie counterparts what i liked about DC more than marvel was it had more none superpowered superheroes but that's me.

Really if they get Aquaman and WW right it'll be okay, make Batman's look Arkham City like, dial back Superman's powers and you have a movie. I do think Bob is right that they keep over-thinking and over-emphasizing Batman.

They'll probably scale them down just like they did in the Avengers. Thor's just as powerful as Superman and yet we didn't see him going all nuts in the movie.

daxterx2005:
I wouldn't mind a blue beetle movie.

Ted Kord or Jaime Reeys?

I agree, as much as I love Batman... maybe it's time we took a break... despite what some folks say. (Also, loved the Leauge introduction bit).

If something is awesome, it's awesome. You can't get enough awesome. Defies the laws of awesomnium.

If you need a break, take one yourself!

I'd agree. I'm generally kind of sick of batman, and I'm sick of all the memes too.

"Be whatever you want to be, unless you can be Batman, then always be Batman" hur hur hur

I never grew up with comics so I just can't understand the allure of them, especially in today's time. But thats the reason, I think. I have the internet now where I can "plug in" to nerd culture at a whim. Back then comics were one of the only things around right?

But as someone who doesn't really care about the Marvel or DC universe. The whole Bruce Wayne with Demigods is kinda irrelevant. He should just be their PR guy or handle their taxes or something. Actually, he wouldn't be a good PR guy cuz of the whole mental issues thing. hmmm

WiseBass:
As someone who has never followed, read, or watched any Justice League fiction, how did they get the whole "team of people with god-like powers" to work in the first place? Even more god-like enemies?

The Avengers have got some tough people, like the Hulk, Thor and his magic hammer, and Captain America. But they don't hold a candle to Mr. Arbitrarily-Fast, Mr. Arbitrarily-Fast-plus-Arbitrarily-Strong, and Mr. Can Wish Anything Into Existence With a Magic Ring. It just doesn't seem like the type of thing that will work that well in a movie short of making the stakes absurdly huge, never mind a series of movies where the temptation is going to be to constantly re-up the intensity and re-capture what sold the first movie.

But then again, what do I know? As long as Wonder Woman looks hot, there's tons of explosions and action scenes, and either a melodramatic or funny plot, it will probably make a ton of money overseas.

JLA is mainly about dealing with threats to the entire planet or the entire universe. and everyone brings something different to the table other than just their powers

Superman and Batman are the Smart guys
Wonderwoman and Aquaman are the leaders of armies with the resources of nations
Martian Manhunter is the Coordinator
Flash is the heart
Lots of others hold other things other than just their powers.

Red X:

Jennacide:
I personally had be wondering why the hell they were debating about what to do with Batman, when the one of the trio they need to focus on getting right is Wonder Woman. Nothing in media outside the comics with her name on it has been successful, which is a friggin Greek tragedy. (See what I did there?)

The best she's been was in her original TV/movie series and the Animated universe. Her Animated movie was really good :)

I'll have to look into that. I admit I forgot about the Justice Leagure cartoon, which at least did a good portrayl for once. Point still stands though, don't fuck it up WB! :p

I agree with Bob. Our Caped Crusader should go on a retirement... So we can get Batman Beyond Begins.

Agree, screw Batman. Make a Flash or Hawkgirl movie. Not only is Batman overdone but having a new Batman series first would mean having to wait like 7 years for a justice league movie.

Paradoxrifts:

Spot1990:
Batman's a normal human, that's his sell.

And that a superior intellect will always be the ultimate superpower. Every time Batman either comes to the rescue to or jeopardizes the lives of the rest of the Justice League, they're pandering to every comic book nerd convinced that their 'superior intelligence' is the main reason behind them being social outcasts.

Is Batman any more of a brain than Sherlock Holmes, The Doctor, or MacGyver? Just because a superhumanly smart character resonates with nerds doesn't make it pandering.

Pandering would be if Batman saved the day thanks his collection of Magic the Gathering or the massive slashfic library on his Bat-harddrive.

Hindkjaer:
And in the end when WB give Zack Snyder the GO-ahead to just make awesome comic-book movies, we will have a "NERD-OFF" Between him and Joss Whedon :) And it will be glorious :D

Don't think that Zack '300' Snyder is the man for the job, nor will he be for the Man of Steel film. Actually, I think Josh Whedon made a great 'the one superhero film to rule them all' and should have said no to any other sequel project. I am tired of superheroes, we (the audience) have been bludgeoned with Batman, Iron Man, Thor, Captain 'Murrica, Spiderman, Fantastic Four, Green Lantern, The Punisher and many other superhero films whom ranged from cream of the crop to 'oh-my-god-that-was-so-bad-I-want-to-go-home-and-take-a-hot-shower-while-crying-and-clenching-my-knees' bad. Maybe it's time to come up with something new, or at least hasn't doused our minds for the last 13 years.

ThrobbingEgo:

Paradoxrifts:

Spot1990:
Batman's a normal human, that's his sell.

And that a superior intellect will always be the ultimate superpower. Every time Batman either comes to the rescue to or jeopardizes the lives of the rest of the Justice League, they're pandering to every comic book nerd convinced that their 'superior intelligence' is the main reason behind them being social outcasts.

Is Batman any more of a brain than Sherlock Holmes, The Doctor, or MacGyver? Just because a superhumanly smart character resonates with nerds doesn't make it pandering.

Pandering would be if Batman saved the day thanks his collection of Magic the Gathering or the massive slashfic library on his Bat-harddrive.

Sherlock Holmes, MacGyver and the Doctor from Doctor Who didn't routinely show up a roster of characters that include alien Jesus, human Sonic the hedgehog, green alien Jesus, Space Cop, yes mistress and the sequined-shirted sea man. Also allow me to note that of the three examples that you mentioned, the archenemies of two of them are every bit as smart and resourceful as the heroes they're up against.

Paradoxrifts:
Sherlock Holmes, MacGyver and the Doctor from Doctor Who didn't routinely show up a roster of characters that include alien Jesus, human Sonic the hedgehog, green alien Jesus, Space Cop, yes mistress and the sequined-shirted sea man. Also allow me to note that of the three examples that you mentioned, the archenemies of two of them are every bit as smart and resourceful as the heroes they're up against.

How about Jason and the Argonauts? The 'normal guy who leads an army of demigods' isn't exactly a new trend.

Aside from Bane and The Joker, Batman has R'as Al Ghul, a villain who has greater resources, comparable intelligence, and is still dangling the Wayne family on his strings. I'd say R'as is Batman's Moriarty.

You heard it hear folk. Movie Bob has decreed that the part of Batman in the Justice League movie should be played by The Question!

Bob, hi I've seen 2-3 of your reviews, generally watch Jim sterling and Ben Yahtzee.

Ironically enough I got lured back because (drum roll) BATMAN! Now i liked the last one that you kinda dumped on. I enjoyed Bane.

And at that time I just assumed "Hay maybe he knows something i don't?" and instead of fan boying it up, i just shut up and walked away.

Bob... I think deep down inside superman is gonna suck. I could be wrong. But listen to your please. I think we're all bracing for it to suck.

and your mad at Warner brothers wanting to fall back on "batman" the franchise to pick up the tab of dumping a bunch of money on a bomb? Christ are you that selfish? You'd prefer warner brothers eat it's massive lose.. and not do it's most popular most enjoyable movie cause... well...

you might, kinda sorta feel guilty if you like it cause you have a hang up over venerating Heath ledgar?

I'm trying not to be to much of a nerd but can you meet me half way?

Desert Punk:
Batman is pretty much the only interesting hero in DCs primary stable though!

INeedAName:
Although Batman is really the only DC hero to interest me, I agree that WB should really pull out a couple of other superhero movies, introducing new characters, before they make another Batman. Maybe even try to make them good this time.

^This. The main problem with using other DC superheroes besides Batman is that, while all of them are interesting and relatable enough in the comics, they do a REALLY crappy job of transistioning them into other media and retaining that interest, and until they get that down Batman is all we're going to get stuck with.

teamcharlie:
Here's one immediate, easy way to make Batman new again: Adam West him the fuck up. Make him an archaic, ridiculous symbol of oldschool machismo, bring back the sexy 60s-looking ladies to fawn over and/or catwoman him, give him one of his sillier opponents to fight as a B-plot with waves of implausible goons and make everything as goofy as possible. That sounds like several gallons of fun in my book. Hell, I'll just bet that Jon Hamm would jump at the chance to be Bruce Wayne for pennies on the dollar.

They already tried that, behold the result:
image
...and it turned out to be one of the most universally reviled superhero movies in existance.

The fact is, nobody wants an Adam Westing Batman anymore. Hell, if superheroes as a whole wasn't so ridiculous and campy back when the actual Adam West Batman existed, we wouldn't have wanted an Adam Westing Batman back then either. The Adam West Batman is one of those things that people only thought was good because they didn't have anything better, go back and read the pre-crisis Batman comics and watch the old T.V. show now and tell me that you'll be able to even get through a single comic book or episode.

I'll be honest...
I kind of want some more Batman...

Possibly cartoon Batman.
Preferably with a soundtrack that sounds like the animated series.

And it's definitely gonna need more Joker...
Lots and lots of Joker.

The Great JT:
How about we put Batman out for a while and replace it with something...unexpected? No, not Superman. Flash...eh, he had a TV show that ran for a number of seasons, I think the public still kind of knows his deal. Green Lantern had his shot and dropped the green energy construct in the shape of a ball so badly it blew up a planet. To me, there's three major DC characters ripe for adaptations that have had pretty minimal exposure (relative to Batman) that I would love to see on the movie screen.


While I agree that MM would probably work well enough, I'm not so sure about WW and Zatanna. If they wanted to have WW and Zatanna in anything they have to fix the problems with how Superheroines and women in general are potrayed in media. That being that Superheroines are always just walking stereotypes and fanservice in any media they are in, not anything resembling real women. Superheroines are always these unrealistically beautiful supermodels that are obsessed with men, either in the overly male dependant way or because they're staw feminists that think "ALL MEN MUST DIE!!!" that are constantly thinking they're being oppressed even when they aren't (that one is sometimes truth in television sadly). In either case they're always wearing skintight everything while showing as much skin and cleavage as legally allowed while having sex scenes thrown in, mostly to get men going. I mean, I'm a man, and even I can see just how unrealistic this is, and I don't really like it.

Newflash writers of media everywhere, most women in the world are NOT supermodels and don't constantly dress in skimpy outfits. They also spend only a small portion of their time talking about men, whether it be in a positive or negative light. You want the people women watching to identify with your superheroine to get the best effect, and making them walking stereotypes and fanservice will never accomplish that. Try casting a woman who's beatiful but not ridiculously so, and write the Superheroine's dialog to be more realistic.

I'd love to hear your breakdown of why batman is popular in our society today, a la why monster films were popular in the 50's kind of deal. I always enjoy those societal break downs so very much, and they're great food for thought.

Here's to hoping

Well, i agree to you on some points: It is very possible to overextend even on the very good franchises and Batman had "enough attention" through the last few years. DC (i'll just use it right now because it's Batmans "origin" and shorter than writing Warner Bros. all the time) should take the chance and make some other good movies without relying entirely on Batman, obviously, it would not only extend their ground, but the fundaments they could build on.

However, i think you're a bit unfair with this, in a way. You don't want some Justice League movie to suck, i wouldn't want that either and while you mentioned Marvel's Avangers as a comparison, which is necessary at this point considering the movie more or less dominated last year, but on the other hand, isn't Marvel just as flawed in this way as DC is? When i look at the Avangers i think one of them stands out very similar to Batman and who could that be? Iron Man, who else?! He is pretty much Marvel's version of Batman, some stinking rich guy with enough intelligence and self-claimed "justice" to go off and fight tons of bad guys as a hobby. Don't get me wrong, i've liked both at very equal levels and much more than many others, probably because of their similarities, qualities and flaws compared to other super-heroes. And this year another Ironman movie comes out, it will very likely shovel in another bunch of money for Marvel and he had several tv-franchises and games as well, recently even added an "anime" to that list (yeah, not going to talk about that one further).

In fact, both, Marvel and DC had respective works of success and fuc*** up some others. For that i'd like to remind you of the Green Lantern movie, or X-Men: Wolverine (though i actually had much to laugh about in this one, i saw it as an utter mess, but a funny mess at that).

Sure, now that Marvel scored big with The Avangers, DC think they "have to counter" with the Justice League or something like that and it feels kinda stupid and they will probably focus to much on Batman and so on and so forth; but hey, that's what this business is about and not just for Warner Bros., but for most of the entire business.
And in a way, this concludes to the point you got to in multiple of your last videos: What is the movie-/entertainment-industry gonna do about it? What do you wanna do about it? What is annybody gonna do about it? Right now it barely matters if a possible Justice League movie might suck or not, it will very likely get them the money they want either way and even if their "reputation" might increase or decrease a bit, by itself, the results won't change to much about the status quo, otherwise they would have to fail so damn hard, it is close to unimaginable.

That said, i just think this episode wasn't one of your bests either, but nonetheless, i'll watch the next one as well ;).

immortalfrieza:

They already tried that, behold the result:
image
...and it turned out to be one of the most universally reviled superhero movies in existance.

The fact is, nobody wants an Adam Westing Batman anymore.

I suppose you aren't a fan of Batman Brave and The Bold? It's 70% campy Silver Age Comic weirdness, 30% and continuity nods.

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