Escape to the Movies: Beautiful Creatures

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bificommander:
Yeah, my response to the trailer was 'I know you guys probably like to rake in some of that sweet Twilight money, but could you at least try to look like you're making something with ideas of it's own?' This is to Twilight what Battleship was to Transformers: Shoving trailers in the more succesful franchise fan's faces and shouting "Look, look, it looks exactly like what you just watched, surely you'd love to watch it again?"

I wish I had done the same, but it was Valentine's day and that is what my Girlfriend wanted to see. The really sad part, the Trailer had all of the best scenes from the movie in it, including every single scene where magic is used (visually) save one. The rest of the film was boring teen romance BS, complete with angst.

Don't worry, I was planning to stay away from this anyway on account of it being a stupid romance thing.

Also I've been pretty much meh about everything to do with the next generation of game consoles.

And finally, Megan Fox is going to play April? Where did that come from? Also I echo Bob's sentiment: NO!

maxben:

00m:
Bob, and whomever else it may concern.

Now I am not expert (unlike Crispin Freeman http://www.mythologyandmeaning.com/), but this seems to be the myth of the women as hero taken to its logical conclusion, which says to me that not only is this film wrong, but a lot of human culture's myths and ideas of man and women are patriarchal and screwed up.

What do I mean:

Link and Luke choose to take up the sword when offered.

Serena (Sailor Moon) and Sakura (Card Captors) have magical powers bestowed on them whether they like it or not.

Beatiful Creatures is just the extreme of this sexist myth that only insecure dudes, and those under their influence (lots of people) would come up with in response to something obvious:

"Why is she suddenly bleeding? That's so weird! Oh wait, it may be weird but now she can, and will, seed my immortality." Actually from the biological perspective the women is the default body plan, so no it is not, and don't even get me started on the rest of that...

Anyway, those are just the thoughts of some random rich athletic straight white Christian man, aware and trying to do something about his own power and privilege. Your thoughts?

I feel strongly against your hypothesis.
1. Link was either a) barely a character or b) predestined/forced to act (Ocarina of time and majora's mask). Rarely was he given a legitimate choice to just walk away (He did in Wind Waker, right?). Luke was genetically predisposed to his path, was actively looked after by the guy who would become his guide, and there was that whole jedi prophecy thing. While he could have turned evil, so could have buffy as faith pointed out. The great powers/position of greatness was not a choice.
2. Many popular and old male heroes in the west were predisposed to greatness such as Hercules or Achiles and even Harry Potter through birth. Not all, but many.
3. You picked two Japanese characters and then talk about white christian men? Lets talk about characters created by white men before discussing the Japanese which have their own particular cultural understanding of women

So the ball is in your court if you wish to continue to defend your point of view, I'd love to see what you have to say

Interestingly, one of the OLDEST ideas of fate is from the Bhagavad Gita where the character Arjuna is conflicted about whether or not he must kill a close friend of his. However, the god Krishna basically says "uh, no, you have to kill him whether you like it or not. You're war ITSELF, you HAVE to do it, it's your goddamned FATE." Fate in general is something that is a BIG part of myth and literature, mostly because man has always wondered if he truly is in charge of himself.

Falseprophet:
Now we're seeing all these urban fantasy/paranormal books written by people who played a lot of World of Darkness RPGs in the 1990s.

As someone who played Mage: The Ascension far more than Vampire, this BETTER not be someone's interpretation of a Mage chronicle. I may facepalm so hard I give myself a concussion.

m19:
"Cause wymmin. Am I right fellas?"

Women write it. Women love it. But let me berate men anyway.

Ummmm.....I don't love it. Nor does any woman I know love it.

A certain fanbase of women love it, but that's as far as I'm conceding.

Coruptin:
Why was the borderline sexist magic rule brought up as an issue, but the blanket stereotype of southerners never addressed? As an Asian who grew up in Georgia I can attest the vast majority southerners are sincerely kind people. Different political views does not a bigot make :T

Hate to say it, but as a southerner (Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia/West Virginia to be specific), we do have these clusters and small towns who are like that and worse. In my own hometown, people still in the 21st century can be heard lamenting about how it's illegal to hang blacks at will.

Yeah... that arbitrary alignment switch thing is quite the load of horseshit...

GunsmithKitten:

Ummmm.....I don't love it. Nor does any woman I know love it.

A certain fanbase of women love it, but that's as far as I'm conceding.

Never did I say all women like it. Enough do to make Twilight and the like massively successful. Moviebob would rather poke at the men again though who neither write this stuff nor are the main target audience.

Smilomaniac:

Gorfias:
I am shocked at the whole, guys decide what they want to be, girls do not. Bu this was written by two women Karmi Garcia and Margaret Stohl. What were they thinking?

Women can be sexist against their own gender.

Above, I respond to Plugav who has some fun analysis. That the movie is about a girls rebellion away from the old guard way of thinking. Interesting stuff.

But I think you still have a point. One of the classic analysis of this phenom was "Gone with the Wind." This is a story written by a woman and beloved by women. There is a scene where Rhett basically spousal rapes Scarlett. Scarlett awakes the next morning radiant. Why does this scene strike a chord with women when it should be found, by all right thinking people, abhor ant?

1:40 and 1:49

My point being that you probably haven seen the movie, so how do you know that you would agree with his opinion? :)

Too true. Is it the kind of rebellion Plugay writes of, or more of the sort of self limiting thing we see in places like "Gone with the Wind?" As I love movies, especially those with special effects, I don't doubt I'll get around to seeing this ASAP.

Mumorpuger:

Gizmo1990:
I have no idea what Bob was saying Fox should not play but as she is bad in everything it is probably good advice. Can anyone enlighten me as to who it was?

I'm guessing "1990" is your birth year. I feel sad now at April being unrecognized.

If it makes you feel better, I recognized April and forgot who Megan Fox was.

I too like the glowy blue thing.

Also HAHAHA at Megan Fox as April.

And for the OT: So...better than twilight? Granted thats not hard...

No sparkling vampires is automatically better in my book.

All I heard for about half of that was SPACE JAM, SPACE JAM, SPACE JAM!

If you want a real "That was it" see the latest Paranourmal Activity. The level of audiable disappointment made by my fellow movie-goers never ceases to make those movies worth it.

If I wanted to follow a borderline sexist story about people who are 'good' on account of just not being evil that promises to engage some deep philosophical questions but throws it away at the last time for a by-the-numbers disappointing ending I'd play a videogame.

NinjaDeathSlap:
Was that... Megan Fox as April O'Neil?

If it was, then your 'NO' was barely a fifth of the size that it needed to be.

(Also, considering the circumstances behind her leaving the Bayformers, let's just say I'm very surprises that her and Michael Bay are working together again)

Fox as April.... Bay style....

All I see is a yellow belly-shirt, or a jumpsuit that opens down to her navel.

"Because, y'know, that embodies the character as I see her." (I think we ALL know what you see, Bay.)

How big of a nerd am I that recognized April O'Neil from the cartoon still you posted? Probably no more so than most of the Escapist readership...

Yeah I'm sorry I do not see Megan Fox playing as April O'Neil for TMNT. She just doesn't look the part nor have the attitude. Honestly with a role like April O'Neil you don't even have to look like her 1980's or even 2000's cartoon counter parts. O'Neil is really best played by the unknown actor, the up and coming because it enables that tabla rasa impression that will allow her to interpret O'Neil in her own style without having to be weighed down by all that baggage.

Or we can just do this...and let's make this one for the pony lovers here cause it is

Your Gaffer:
How big of a nerd am I that recognized April O'Neil from the cartoon still you posted? Probably no more so than most of the Escapist readership...

Not really that big of a nerd really. Honestly I used to think that I used to be a huge nerd but then I realized that while being able to recognize characters certainly a good entry point the real depths of one's knowledge and pop culture stems from actually knowing everything around that starting point of recognizing that character.

I had to pause the video I was laughing so hard at the "x I mean y I mean z" section. God. Bob. I wouldn't say you're a comedic genius - I tune in more for your insight than your sense o' humour (and the Escapist has LRR, Zero Punctuation, and Jimquisition pretty much plugging the comedy niche well up) - but dear lord. Great fucking job on that one, dude, and I mean it. Gold.

varmintx:

Gizmo1990:
I have no idea what Bob was saying Fox should not play but as she is bad in everything it is probably good advice. Can anyone enlighten me as to who it was?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/22/megan-fox-joining-michael-bays-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles

Wait don't Bay and Fox hate each other? As in she said she was never going to be in another movie made by him again?

OT: Yea wasn't gonna touch this one either way. I just can't wait for a fantasy genre movie where a love story ISN'T the main theme to come around. If one doesn't in the next few years I may have to take matters into my own hands and call up some of my buddies who degreed in movie related stuff.

Jacco:
I'm so tired of this teenie bopper young adult bullshit. I'm now motivated to go write a genre redefining book that turns all of this crap on its head.

I wish it were possible. There's plenty of literature out there for intelligent people, the target audience of that bullshit you speak of just like to read bullshit.

Man, that image of Peach made me super sad that we still haven't gotten a sequel to super princess peach.

Darken12:

Therumancer:
*snip*

Hey. What you're talking about is rape culture. The social message that men are supposed to be powerful, aggressive and dominant, while women are supposed to be passive, delicate and enjoy being "ravished" (that is, raped), is a very deeply rooted bit of misogyny that we still can't shake off as a society. Rape culture isn't just that, it's far broader, deeper and encompasses more aspects of daily life (that's why it's termed rape culture), but the gist of it is that women are taught to embrace rape and abuse as desirable things, and to surrender their sexuality, agency and power to the patriarchy.

Thankfully, we are slowly working on getting rid of this really harmful societal message, but it's going to take time and a lot of effort. And in the meantime, we're going to get horrible, horrible things like fetishised rape and abuse.

Ummm, no, and that's kind of the point I'm trying to make. You see this in literature written by women for women, not as some kind of oppressive misogynist propaganda being perpetuated by men. The point that I'm making to Bob is that current left wing thinking and what is being projected onto women is not nessicarly what women in general want or see in their fantasy. It's difficult to articulate what exactly I'm getting at here without getting into exactly the kind of arguement your making, which is why I suggest reading women's literature first hand.

See, it would be one thing if you were dealing with *a* female author portraying this kind of thing, then you could say she represents an aberration. But when you understand this to be the norm, not only for the writers, but also what women seek out and consume in massive quanities even with all the liberation in society, it paints a differant picture.

Now there is a differance between reality and fantasy, and none of what you see here is saying women want to be enslaved, dominated, and treated like cattle out in the real world, or event that the end of the day this is what's being written about. It's something you really have to immerse yourself in to understand the point, which is why I say Bob really should do it.

But no, it's not rape culture, not really, and the inabillity to understand that is exactly the problem, that leads to the whole question of "why the hell is anyone writing this stuff, or worshipping it". We're at the point now where it's actually more insulting to say that there is some kind of "rape culture" involved at this level as that basically implies women are too stupid and brain washed to realize it, and that's really not the case.

seiler88:
Am I the only Christian conservitive that is confused by this recent trend in fiction? I thought this line of thought had fallen out of the mainstream and was relegated to the minority.

Second why is Hollywood turning this stuff out shouldn't they be opposed to this stuff on principle?

Morally opposed to what stuff on principle? Magic? Fantasy? I don't think there's anything morally wrong with that at all, and Hollywood certainly wouldn't be opposed to whatever is the "it" thing right now even if some people have some moral problems with it.

Therumancer:
-snip-

I personally can't make up my mind on whether or not you're right, but I will say that it's refreshing to actually see someone consider a different perspective on what's sexist. That was your longer original post by the way, not the response.

Therumancer:
Ummm, no, and that's kind of the point I'm trying to make. You see this in literature written by women for women, not as some kind of oppressive misogynist propaganda being perpetuated by men. The point that I'm making to Bob is that current left wing thinking and what is being projected onto women is not nessicarly what women in general want or see in their fantasy. It's difficult to articulate what exactly I'm getting at here without getting into exactly the kind of arguement your making, which is why I suggest reading women's literature first hand.

I read women literature constantly. I read M/M literature written by women, where actual rape is pretty much the norm. I read about feminism and keep myself updated with what women think about the products aimed at them. My views aren't mine alone, they are shared by a significant portion of women.

Also, there's something called "internalised misogyny" and it happens quite often.

Therumancer:
See, it would be one thing if you were dealing with *a* female author portraying this kind of thing, then you could say she represents an aberration. But when you understand this to be the norm, not only for the writers, but also what women seek out and consume in massive quanities even with all the liberation in society, it paints a differant picture.

Yes, it paints the picture of rape culture and women being indoctrinated by the patriarchy into seeing controlling, predatory, dominant, aggressive and misogynistic behaviour as sexy.

Therumancer:
Now there is a differance between reality and fantasy, and none of what you see here is saying women want to be enslaved, dominated, and treated like cattle out in the real world, or event that the end of the day this is what's being written about. It's something you really have to immerse yourself in to understand the point, which is why I say Bob really should do it.

I completely agree that there is a difference between fantasy and reality, but the truth is that society is actually telling women that the should find certain traits sexually attractive, whether in reality or in fiction (or in both). This happens for a reason, and to turn a blind eye on it does nothing to further progress and gender equality.

Therumancer:
But no, it's not rape culture, not really, and the inabillity to understand that is exactly the problem, that leads to the whole question of "why the hell is anyone writing this stuff, or worshipping it". We're at the point now where it's actually more insulting to say that there is some kind of "rape culture" involved at this level as that basically implies women are too stupid and brain washed to realize it, and that's really not the case.

I advise you to educate yourself on rape culture.

I never implied that the existence of rape culture implies women are too stupid and brainwashed to realise it. Doing so would imply that, in ancient times, those who supported slavery and racial or religious genocide were too stupid and brainwashed to realise they were committing gross human rights violations or that people who supported the apartheid were too stupid and brainwashed to realise how racist they were.

MetalMagpie:

Therumancer:
Bob, I'm going to address you directly again.

You would address him more directly by just sending him a message. ;)

True, but I prefer not to spam web personalities by sending them E-mail unless I have something fairly important to say. I've found on this site a lot of the people doing the shows tend to read their responses, especially early on, and I've gotten direct responses before. I'm not so much fishing for a discourse with Bob on the subject so much as just giving an alternate point of view (such as it is), and putting it up publically also invites discussion, which means traffic, which ultimatly makes his articles and videos more successful.

I might not always be the most popular guy in the world, but you might notice I try and say something nearly every time Jim Steling, Bob Chipman, or Yahtzee put up a video, which is a way of support by again, generating activity. Even when people argue with me viciously over a point or comment, it pretty much helps.

Annoying people with already jammed E-mail boxes with my verbose posts, doesn't actually help with the hits, traffic, displayed interest, etc...

Speaking of which, I think Jim's "Movie Defense Force" gig could use some more love in it's responses. It has potential, but I think if it doesn't pick up a bit in the activity we might wind up losing it.

Cpu46:

varmintx:

Gizmo1990:
I have no idea what Bob was saying Fox should not play but as she is bad in everything it is probably good advice. Can anyone enlighten me as to who it was?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/22/megan-fox-joining-michael-bays-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles

Wait don't Bay and Fox hate each other? As in she said she was never going to be in another movie made by him again?

OT: Yea wasn't gonna touch this one either way. I just can't wait for a fantasy genre movie where a love story ISN'T the main theme to come around. If one doesn't in the next few years I may have to take matters into my own hands and call up some of my buddies who degreed in movie related stuff.

Well you can't put any faith in anything Micheal Bay says. We had all that fair well crap with Dark of the Moon was going to be Micheal Bay's last Transformers movie ever and yet he's back for part 4. The guy just never keeps his word.

For Megan Fox I'm guessing it's because she hasn't had a hit since Revenge of the Fallen. She has gone from one box office disaster to the next so she needs a franchise where something other than her name can draw a crowd.

Two people driven by nothing but the need for money and attention. Maybe that's why they fight because they are just too much alike. It's not about art or pushing themselves creatively it's just how can I get a pay check out of something that was popular before I started working on it.

Therumancer:

MetalMagpie:

Therumancer:
Bob, I'm going to address you directly again.

You would address him more directly by just sending him a message. ;)

True, but I prefer not to spam web personalities by sending them E-mail unless I have something fairly important to say. I've found on this site a lot of the people doing the shows tend to read their responses, especially early on, and I've gotten direct responses before. I'm not so much fishing for a discourse with Bob on the subject so much as just giving an alternate point of view (such as it is), and putting it up publically also invites discussion, which means traffic, which ultimatly makes his articles and videos more successful.

I might not always be the most popular guy in the world, but you might notice I try and say something nearly every time Jim Steling, Bob Chipman, or Yahtzee put up a video, which is a way of support by again, generating activity. Even when people argue with me viciously over a point or comment, it pretty much helps.

Annoying people with already jammed E-mail boxes with my verbose posts, doesn't actually help with the hits, traffic, displayed interest, etc...

Speaking of which, I think Jim's "Movie Defense Force" gig could use some more love in it's responses. It has potential, but I think if it doesn't pick up a bit in the activity we might wind up losing it.

Sorry, I was just teasing you because it seems like an odd statement to make about a completely public post. ;)

I've certainly noticed you leave very long comments. You may find more people respond if you condense your points down to fewer words.

WhiteTigerShiro:

Markunator:

WhiteTigerShiro:
Uh-oh! MovieBob said something about a Sony product that wasn't completely positive, time to queue-up the "Figures, he always was a Nintendo fanboy" comments. Because Heaven forbid that we should be getting bored of a design that's nearly 2 decades old.

How is the controller the same as it has been? It has made the necessary updates, nothing more. Why change something that isn't broken?

Because it IS broken. The Sony controller was originally designed without the analog sticks. After the N64 came out, Sony decided to slap a couple of analog sticks on there, because even back then they were copying everything Nintendo did, and the lack of planning shows. The analog sticks are simply too clunky to use with their current positioning unless you have abnormally long thumbs.

Well, I guess I have abnormally long thumbs, then ...

Rank? Why ain't nobody got a rank in Megaforce. 'Cept the Commander, but we all call him Hunter.


You've made me a very happy man today Bob. I thank you. I'm going to see if I can find the first few seasons of Spin City anywhere...

At first I thought this looked interesting but then I found out that the girl's wealthy dowager relative wasn't Lady Haversham and I was disappointed...Hollywood hear me! A Southern Gothic retelling of Great Expectations could be really cool!

Markunator:

Well, I guess I have abnormally long thumbs, then ...

Well you know what they say about guys with abnormally long thumbs don't you? They are quite likely to be acquitted of the murder of their ex-wife and her friend...too soon?

Not for nothing, but the hat pretty much tells poor future wizards their fate in Harry Potter.

Gorfias:
*snip*

Wow, someone actually replied to my points and didn't pick apart my post and misquote it for their own benefit.
Someone pinch me, is this still the internet? D:

I haven't seen Gone With the Wind.
I can relate to the scene with a relationship I had, where this girl wanted me to rape her. She definitely had her insecurities, but this was a borderline masochistic wish, to be used and get a kick out of it.
Since I mostly felt uncomfortable about it I was treated with disdain when I didn't want to do that; I was being "unmanly".

I'm not sure that this is specifically rape culture or just an influenced fetish, but there was a deep urge for her to be actively submissive during sex and when we did do it her way, with the slapping, the pain, holding her down, choking and whatnot, she was ecstatic and while it wasn't always my cup of tea, I do admit that I enjoyed myself when I immersed myself in the role.

If Scarlett had anywhere near the same urge or fantasy, this might be what she wanted, but didn't realize it. It's certainly a popular theme in erotic stories and this is afterall fiction. It's especially erotic, because Scarlett has to be prim and proper(In the 1860's) and is able to live out her dirty side.

I'm going to go off on a tangent here and try to explain it in a different way(Sorry for the long post):

It's important to note that in BDSM relationships, everything is based on trust. A Master who mistreats his slave outside of the bedroom is something that is extremely discouraged in the community. Even inside, it only works because there is a trust that dictates that you don't go beyond a set of rules that are either laid out or that you both innately know because you know your partner so well. Pushing the borders comfort zones *is* part of it, but breaking them is a no-no, it's ultimately destructive and ruins the experience for at least one of you and might end the relationship.
This is a lot of responsibility and work on the dominant side that usually comes naturally, but the relationship is not as one-sided as people often thinks it is and this is why I'm against just labeling any forceful sex as mere rape-culture.

Once you're in that mindset, when you understand how powerful the experience is for both sides, you can relate it to that scene and understand what both people are feeling before, during and after. This is why it doesn't come off as actual rape to me. It might be and that it just ended well and she realized that they love one another or that she's so bound by the time she's in that she thinks she deserves it and has been put in her place(Cured of hysteria as they might have called it).

I don't think it's as cut and dry as saying that it's a matter of actual rape and all women should be shocked and hate it. I think the beauty of it is that you can apply it to any situation you want, that it means something to you.
While some will support this and let it be an outlet for women to understand themselves(whether it's one or the other way, sexual liberation or admission of being submissive for all the wrong reason) there's not a lot of room for men here.
As a man, I'm not allowed(according to current popular opinion, at least on this forum) to think of this scene as one where I can live out my fantasies or especially use it to condone any actions of similar situations without a UN report on the ramifications, the risks, her state of mind and feelings and her human rights.
This is all about Scarlett, what she needs, how she feels and not about the dummy stereotypical male who is the obvious bad guy here.

This worries me, not because I don't get to condone rape in my spare time, but because the focus is on percieved womens rights compared to men and not true gender equality. I honestly think that in the pursuit of becomming a better society we're just chasing idealism for no better reason than the fact it's popular right now(in the gaming community specifically). I honestly believe that most men/boys here hope to gain some sympathy out of this discussion, in a desperate futile hope, just to get laid. I'm not kidding :D

Okay, this has run on for long enough, sorry again for the lengthy reply. Again, I haven't seen the movie or the specific scene(other than what you posted and what I could scrounge up on youtube), so this is just my thoughts on the matter. Hope I didn't make it too convoluted.

Smilomaniac:
snip

Great post. I've experienced, as have friends of mine, women who hate violence, but do enjoy force. So many romantic novels have women being passionately ravaged by a man illustrated on their very cover. These are not lawyers in love (ie "I'm going to escalate physical contact by placing my hand on your buttocks as we kiss. Is that acceptable to you before I go on?")

Assuming this movie is not about rebellion from stereotypes (for the sake of argument only) I guess we can assume that even a woman who wants to be empowered needs some downtime to fantasize about things she wouldn't want for herself in real life.

Movie Bob would have a point that art can effect our outlook on things. Does this movie further stereotypes? I guess one has to watch it to have an opinion. It will be interesting if the movie is about a rebellion from stereotypes, and Bob missed that!

I expect April O'Neil to become an alien turtle too, because, you know, love interest for the four turtles.
Right?

Hehehheheheheheheheheheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...

Can't choose whether she's good or evil?

That's a giant red blinking neon sign screaming, "I'm a terrible writer and this is my forced conflict."

On the other hand it excuses the evil witches from any and all terrible actions they might take, since they really don't have a choice as far as this setting is concerned. I mean yeah, the bad witch just skinned an entire town worth of children, but it wasn't her fault.

I'm rolling my eyes.

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