The Big Picture: Continuity Wars

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Matthewmagic:
Wait... Mario has a story? I mean I know I never played far enough into a game too get too a cut scene before just going "Well, I'm bored" and turning it off." You can not convince me there is a coherent story in there somewhere.

'One day the kingdom of the peaceful mushroom people was invaded by the Koopa, a tribe of turtles famous for their black magic. The quiet, peace-loving Mushroom People were turned into mere stones, bricks and even field horse-hair plants, and the Mushroom Kingdom fell into ruin.' -- Super Mario Bros Instruction Booklet

Always had a story, and frankly a very macabre one when you consider it. I mean Mario smashes bricks with his fists to collect the insides. Also horse-hair plants are actually mushrooms with long thin stems that have a white underbelly and darken on the top towards the center, usually to a dark red shade, just the fire flower.

image

If VII doesn't have at least 5% Kyle Katarn in it,it stinks already.

Do I sense next week's topic, Bob? I hope I do!

No, no, no Bob. You started it. Mario is Weird!!

This episode was most enjoyable. I am full of agreement... agreeance?... agreeness? ...greenhornet?

Though I couldn't help but notice that it was only prequel footage used in the B-roll... an interesting and curious choice.

I just want new stuff. New characters, stories and enemies. Not the same from the previous movies. You can have new planets and new characters and have the empire as the enemy, even new sith. But dont shoe horn cameos in it for the reason that they are loved by fans. We can have a star wars movie without chewie, han, vader and luke. We dont need, wink wink remember this happened in star wars, type connections. Make a great movie set in the huge universe star wars has......its bigger than the characters.

Its why the Alien franchise sucks. To much importance on Ripley, than on the Aliens themselves. Dump Ripley, she was only interesting the first two movies. Write a new movie with the Aliens and whole new characters and people will love it if it says true to its roots. Its why the SW prequels failed, to much cgi, boring writing and every thing focused on Vader when that story didnt need to be told over 3 movies. It failed because the characters were more important than the story, thus the story was written around the characters.

Just dont mess up Star Wars. There are thousands of years of history to use. Fans love it all and want originality, to see soemthing different. New characters. Yes we loved Han and Luke and Leia, but that because they where well written, great acting and we identify with them. You can write new characters like that.

Just for clarity, am not a major SW fan, watched movies, played games but have never read the books. Just sucks when a great franchise with so much promise and scoop for greatness gets short changed and destroyed through lack of vision or understanding of the franchise.

While not that big on the whole SW canon thing, I'm kind'a still hoping Kyle Katarn would make a comeback...

Ha ha you think there's continuity in Mario? What a nerd.
now If you excuse me I'm going to tv tropes to post a theory about how doctor who fallout and shin megami tensei are all in the same universe.

Anyway to me the Jedi knight games will always be my episode 7 8 and 9 even if the new movies are really good to me they won't be anything more than alternate universe.

shadowmagus:

If George Lucas' words are to be believed/followed, nothing outside the movies is direct canon.

This holds true even for the OT's novelizations.

Yoda is blue in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi books.

Ever notice that?

You could probably make an episode about Mario continuity and theories as to why they can do certain things. You blew my mind with that.

"You know what? Never mind," is the attitude I have towards continuity. All I care about regarding that is "Is this character roughly the same as before?" And even that doesn't matter because what is clearly sequential is sequential, and, if not clearly sequential, the sequence or continuity doesn't really matter.

There's Mario in Subcon, and there's Mario in a replica of the real world, and there's Mario in the Super Mario series, and there's Mario in the Paper Mario series, etc... Whatever.

Malconvoker:
That whole Mario thing should be next weeks episode. :3

Honestly yes. I didn't care too much about the star wars or the marvel talk but when he got into mario I was all ears. lol

There's a lot to be said for a clean continuity. Mirrors of the Wheel are fine, you really do need a solid timeline to fall back on. There's a fair amount of mess in the EU, but some real gems too. By all means plow over thinks like the black fleet crisis, but allow some story lines to continue exist (IE. just don't come out and contradict them), a movie of those events is unnecessary. Some shout outs to the current EU would be good too. Mention things like Kyle Katarn, Centerpoint Station, Dathomir, and Myrkr I'll be happy.

That said, if they start the moves off with Han or Luke or Leia married to some random newly created character, that's not going to go over well. In fact, calling it now, if one of them is married or going out with a character new to that movie, that character WILL die at some point for drama purpose.

But if there is any way to erase the Force Unleashed 1 and 2 from existence, I would appreciate it.

As a Doctor Who fan, the idea of one set of continuity for all the comics and books and games and etc is a nice idea, but more for amusement discussion (which I wrote articles toward!) than something to take as a 'this must be' stance.

Movie Bob. You seem pretty informed on the Mario Universe.

Now, please explain to me The Zelda series in a way I understand...

Obligatory snipe at Star Wars EU being nothing more than fanfiction, followed by spiel about Mario bullshit that consumes half the episode. Yep, I'm still watching Moviebob, and he still has nothing interesting to say without annoying me.

Jesus fucking H. Christ, Bob.

Mario continuity? Really?
I know you're a Nintendo fanboy and I know you wear that title with pride, but you really need to keeps tabs on your manchild tendencies.

MovieBob:
Continuity Wars

MovieBob shows us the consequences of the new Star Wars movie.

Watch Video

4:38 'Tis the law of equilvalent exchange. We get something awesome,we in turn have to deal with something horrible.

Do I want the Sequel Trilogy to be an adaptation of EU stories? No, that's silly. I want a new story, not a rehash of one I could buy from Del Rey. On the other hand, I also believe it would be pretty bad to ride roughshod over the entire existence of the EU. Sure, it isn't all award winning literature, but there is some good stuff in there, and I would hate for the new trilogy to pretty much say that none of the characters in those stories exist at all.

Incidentally, the timing of these movies is eerily in sync with the current progression of the post-RotJ EU fiction. The Fate of the Jedi series ends up at about 40 years after the Emperor takes his swan dive into a reactor core(or whatever that was), and by the time Ep VII comes out it will have been about 32 years since RotJ hit theaters. If Ep VII took place a couple years after that storyline you would have a Skywalker just coming out his teens, a Solo on the Jedi Council, and another Solo preteen on whom the balance of the Force may turn. Not to mention the Empire has just had its first general election, there are at least two different sects of Sith out there somewhere, and the Galactic Alliance(formerly the New Republic) is reeling from a catastrophe on Coruscant.

I could think of several possible stories one could tell with that cast and setting.

Mario 1, he's tripping on some mushrooms. Mario 2, it's a dream. Mario 3, the game starts with a curtain rising. Conclusion, Mario makes a play based on all his trippy visions. Super Mario World, every area is named after a food, ergo Mario has the munchies.

The Mario rant is one of the funniest things I've seen in a Moviebob video. Bob's not normally funny or self-deprecating, but by God, he's funny when he's self-deprecating.

It was the earnestness of it that got me. It was as if Bob would have preferred to be making a video about Mario than Star Wars.

Gizmo1990:

Also will their ever be a Big Picture on the New 52 as I know very little about it and really want to know why Bob seems to hate it.

He already did. It's called Continanity Reloaded, I think.

ShadowKatt:
I never once expected them to pick up the EU. Lucasarts never did, why would Disney. It's not as if the legwork is already done for them and they would just have to throw their infinite supply of money at it until they worked out a script with only a fraction of the effort. That would just be insane.

OK, time out. LucasArts CONTRIBUTED to the SWEU with lots of great video games (in no particular order: Dark Forces and the Jedi Knight Series, KOTOR, Shadows of the Empire, The Rogue Squadron Trilogy, Republic Commando) and there's no reason to think those will POOF disappear when the new movies arrive.

from topic of starwars to mariobros, in the same pod-cast, reached twice by side tracking... yep, only Bob can deliver this level of side tracking.... GJ!

How come Star Wars didn't make a movie/movies about Jedi Academy? like Harry Potter, but WAY BETTER!~ I don't see why not, and how this isn't going to be a hit... I think they could have done it for TV too.... oh well... it's ashame... we might never get a Jedi-Academy TV series with spacial episodes where Kyle Katarn shows up as an instructor/master and save the day with his "Gray Jedi" crusade.

Another fun episode from Bob, slightly schizophrenic but it made me laugh so here we are...

But as for the Extended Universe... I don't agree, Making another star wars movie is a large risky proposition and if Disney has the opportunity to draw upon a partial script and story line that has already achieved some level of appeal and acceptance (EI: it has demonstrably worked) then I think it makes economic sense for them to do so especially since existing EU efforts like the rogue squadron games have already demonstrated success.

Crimson_Dragoon:
As much as I like some of the EU, there was never any reason to think it would be used for the movies.

And I would say something about the DC's New 52 and how there are really good titles on it, but most of those good titles (like Batman and all the Green Lanterns) largely ignore the continuity reset anyways.

They're not ignoring it. Nothing has changed in the Bat family and Corps other than Sinestro being a Green Lantern again.

Meanwhile....************minor spoilers********

Wonder Woman's origin has changed to make sense and she might be stronger than Superman now thanks to her god powers.
Superman no longer works for the Planet and is no longer obsessed with Lois Lane and is no longer a boy scout
Supergirl doesn't seem to give a damn about the people on a planet she just got to...and it works.
Superboy is less Superman-like and slightly less awful than before.
Justice League replaced Martian Manhunter with Cyborg and it's better off for it.
JLA has a new cast
Red Lanterns can now think and speak properly.
Hawkman's armor is reactive now and awakens when he calls it...which is awesome.
Aquaman is badass and retained some of what made him awesome in Flashpoint
The JSA are no longer overshadowed by the JL, as Bman,Superman,and WW are all dead on Earth 2.
The Huntress of Earth 2 is now the only Huntress.
Powergirl has a new suit and it's terrible...just like her character now.
Some of the Teen Titans have changed. Wonder Girl is no longer a WW clone and has a better back story.

So, there's a good bit of change in the New 52, but I do find it odd that Batman and GL seem to live in a bubble, where they're the only ones that remember Blackest Night and the events surrounding it.

As for Bob's opinion of Dc's continuity, I'd rather have a semi-fresh start than whatever Marvel is doing with Marvel Now. I'm reading about 12 books in Marvel right now and I'm pretty disappointed they didn't do a reboot instead of resetting numbers or changing titles from Incredible to Indestructible...or Amazing to Superior (awful comic btw. This whole Doc OC is Spiderman by way of magic was nice for an issue but now.../facepalm)

Desert Punk:

MovieBob:
Continuity Wars

MovieBob shows us the consequences of the new Star Wars movie.

Watch Video

Bob, could the next big picture just be your take on the mario continuity? That was entertaining as hell to listen to.

I second that motion. Personally I didn't think there was much of a continuity so it would be interesting to watch Bob look at the issue.

Seven Samurai Star Wars, I've got hopes for that.

Hmmm, we've gotten a Zelda Historica. Where's the Mario Historica? o.0

You want to talk about continuity try sentai continuity. Up until Gokaiger the rule was every super sentai was in it's own seperate universe except for the versus(crossover) movies. The only series to admit the exsistance of another team was Timeranger. Now that gokaiger makes them share the same world serveral of them contradict others. For example take the dinosaur themed sentai, Zyuranger said that it was Witch Bandora(Rita) that killed the dinosaurs, but then Abaranger says that the asteroid only killed some of the dinosaurs while it also sent the rest to a another dimension that the impact created, but then the new series kyoryuger says they were killed when a monster-of-the-week caused a global ice age...

image

Anyone have an advil?

Did bob seriously just say that 50+ years of continuity makes it less intimidating to get into comics?

Because while I do read the damn things the idea of getting into current mainstream comics terrifies me . I can only read relatively new stuff like northlanders or series that have already ended like preacher or scott pilgrim . everything else seems like work . DC's reboot actually got me to try a few of the new books but even then I was going " who is this again?" like every 3 seconds .

(New swamp thing is nice though )

I'd like it if they filtered books and kept some of the really good stuff mainly stackpole and zhans stuff or at least a few nods, but ditched basicly everything els.

I mean Timothy zhan gave us corosaunt not Lucas, and stackpoles rouge squadron stuff wouldn't interfere with anything.

Soviet Heavy:
Obligatory snipe at Star Wars EU being nothing more than fanfiction, followed by spiel about Mario bullshit that consumes half the episode. Yep, I'm still watching Moviebob, and he still has nothing interesting to say without annoying me.

Arqus_Zed:
Jesus fucking H. Christ, Bob.

Mario continuity? Really?
I know you're a Nintendo fanboy and I know you wear that title with pride, but you really need to keeps tabs on your manchild tendencies.

I don't think you two would know self-deprecating humour if it walked up in front of you and insulted itself.

bastardofmelbourne:

Soviet Heavy:
Obligatory snipe at Star Wars EU being nothing more than fanfiction, followed by spiel about Mario bullshit that consumes half the episode. Yep, I'm still watching Moviebob, and he still has nothing interesting to say without annoying me.

Arqus_Zed:
Jesus fucking H. Christ, Bob.

Mario continuity? Really?
I know you're a Nintendo fanboy and I know you wear that title with pride, but you really need to keeps tabs on your manchild tendencies.

I don't think you two would know self-deprecating humour if it walked up in front of you and insulted itself.

Thing is, I don't give a shit about Mario continuity. I came in with the promise of hearing about Star Wars, and left with nothing useful being said and a two minute tangent on why fucking Shy-Guys are interdimensional beings.

What about the Old Republic? Armies of Sith and Jedi beating the crap out of each other would make nerds cream their C3-PO pants.

Thumbs up if you get the reference

bastardofmelbourne:

Soviet Heavy:
Obligatory snipe at Star Wars EU being nothing more than fanfiction, followed by spiel about Mario bullshit that consumes half the episode. Yep, I'm still watching Moviebob, and he still has nothing interesting to say without annoying me.

Arqus_Zed:
Jesus fucking H. Christ, Bob.

Mario continuity? Really?
I know you're a Nintendo fanboy and I know you wear that title with pride, but you really need to keeps tabs on your manchild tendencies.

I don't think you two would know self-deprecating humour if it walked up in front of you and insulted itself.

Cute.

He spends about one third of the entire episode talking about it. In great detail. With information that seems disturbingly well thought about. Questioning various theories in rapid succession. He probably wanted to let it come of as a joke, but if you're not too dense, it's quite obvious he's really being quite serious.

It's like that Moviebob episode where he pretends to have seen a private screening of a new high budget Super Mario movie. The episode was basically: "If I had half a billion dollars, this is the Mario movie I would make." Yeah, it was disguised as an April fools episode, but he just wanted to get all his "super cool ideas" to the masses.

Continuity is kind of a make or break thing for me because I like settings almost as much as I like stories. Hell, I buy RPG manuals that I know I'm never going to actually play just so I can read about the setting.

So when a corporation (let's face it, it's almost always a corporation) comes in and mucks up the continuity, I start to lose interest real fast. I mean, Star Wars already had an absurd number of levels of canon, then Lucas made the prequels, and now we're going to have a split post-Jedi canon and... the setting is ruined. The stories might be good, the characters good, but the setting, without any sort of internal consistency, is ruined, and I have no further interest in it.

And this isn't the first time I've "broken up" with a series because of continuity problems. I dumped Dragonlance after reading over 100 books because not only did some books directly contradict others, but some books actively made fun of the others. It's like there wasn't any editorial oversight at all, and authors just mucked around as they pleased without respect to those who came before.

This is also why I can't really get into comic books. I mean, sure, Marvel has better continuity than DC to an extent, but they still retcon the Hell out of everything to the point that no one really knows what has and has not happened or what the rules of the setting are at any given point in time. Once you get into the cross-medium stuff (books vs. movies), even a token nod to consistency goes out the window.

In summary, I primarily read single-author (or cohesive team) scifi and fantasy because everything else drives me up the wall.

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