No Right Answer: Show that Jumped the Shark the Most

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Am I the only one who liked the complete second season of Heroes? It introduced my favorite character Daphne! After she died then I quickly lost interest in the show though. Then the last season seemed like it could go somewhere, but it didnt so... ehh only a few good things came out of that show. First my discovery of Brea Grants and two I cant watch How I Met Your Mother without seeing Ted's mom and saying "'ey it's Ms. Petrelli!"

I didn't watch lost, but I watched every episode of Heroes. I really enjoyed the first season 1 and the episode Family man was one of the best of the show. I continued watching it mostly because I talked about on forums with a community and was something we all did every week.(On the city of heroes forums when the game still existed.) The Show suffered from several problems.

- One it was meant only have the characters for each season stick around for one season then drop down to supporting afterwards.NBC execs then went and said No , you re going keep the same guys since you did so well after Volume 1. So Volume2 they half ass their intentions and the writer strike happens.It forced the show to keep retreading the same ground all too often.

- Let's show a door syndrome. This show would build up stuff, and almost never had any decent pay offs. I get they didn't want to make the show about action, but given the source material and the logical conclusion scuffles would happen. Due to the network TV budget, we were in for some majot let downs when it came to throwdowns.(the first transformers movie suffer from LSAD syndrome , as every time two robots would fight, they d show what sam or humans were doing instead or tranformers in vehicle mode since it's cheaper to show that.) Sylar the big bad of Season 1, Peter tackles him off a set of stairs. He get's hit by a chalk board by Molhinder. Future versions of Sylar and Peter go to fight, well we just see a door flashing instead since it's cheaper to imply a fight than show it. They unfornately did it again in chapter 4 when nathan and Peter battle Sylar together. This show needed a bigger budget.

- Characters were stuck in limbo. Some characters Like Peter and Hiro were main to protaganists of the show usually, and usually the main characters trying to do good. Probelm was both became entirely too powerful too quickly by end of the first season. So in order make things interesting the two regularly got written out of the story so all bad things could happen they either of them could solve in 5 secs or when they were around they suffered plot induced stupidity. They were both nerfed by the 3rd chapter since they were basically walking plot devices by then.(big bad of season 3 steals both Hiros and Peters powers.) Amazingly Peter goes from being one of the dumbest characters on the show to one of the most clever immediately after he gets nerfed. Both settle in a bit after this point as they operate at much easier to write levels(Peter can only absorb one power at a time, and Hiro uses his powers sparingly or it will kill him.), but the damage had been done already.

The inability to commit to the characters growth seemed to riddle the entire cast for most part. only handful of times did we see character grow and it stuck in a meaningful way. Hiro and Parkman are ones of the I say actually changed over the course of the show. Molhinder never could do anything right.Claire and Her dad keep playing the we love each and suddenly can't trust each other game for all 5 chapters. Nathan can't see to decide if he wants to be a hero or a sellout. Sylar can't decide what he wants to do ...ever. Season 3 had several ideas that could have worked and been cool directions. I don't care which one you went with just pick one and stick with it for a bit.

- Bunch of characters just suddenly died or disappeared. DL was killed off camera in season 2.They might as well had him die from the injuries of season 1's finale instead of drawing it out in flashbacks and having him die a pointless death. Monica had cool powers like the taskmaster...she was just gone. Maya and her brother were entirely pointless as neither ever did anything worth adding them to the mix. Plenty of characters just got wacked out of nowhere. if you don't care about your characters then why should the audience?

I could probably go on, but under all BS were some really awesome moments that made you see the potential the show had to be great that never was fully realized. Showed us some that stirred emotions or imagination. Hiro and Charlie's story was one of my favorite parts of the show, partly because I was going thru a simliar experience of a love story that just wasn't meant to be no matter how perfect it could have been. I wished I could have gone back and time back time, try again get it right. Hiro couldn't I couldn't either. We had to be stronger and accept things as they were. It was bitter sweet, but like Hiro I wish for my dream girl to found happiness too without me. Also the court room episode Hiro has in his head is full of soo much win. I definitely don't regret watching it even if it never hit the notes it should have been. Sometimes we have watch someone play icarus to know how to really fly.

synobal:
The problem with TV is, no one is willing to let a show go when it's finished. If it's still making money, has good ratings etc they've got to continue the show no matter what. Supernatural was a good example of this. In my opinion they should of ended it after the whole apocalypse plot was resolved. I was expecting that but they continued it and well. I dunno I've heard people say it's still good but I couldn't get past the whole soulless Sam season.

They should of just let it end with a nice ending, now it's going to go on until they decide to axe it and it will have an either terrible cobbled together "end" episode or it will just stop mid plot and leave all it's balls hanging in the air for ever.

YES!!! I completly agree. It was ment to end at season 5 but The CW wanted more. The show creator left so it was passed over to other people. I stopped watching about 2 episodes into season 6 but wiki has kept me up to date. The problem I have with it is that you cannot beat the Devil for a bad guy. They were fighting Lucifer himself in an effort to prevent the apocalypse. You cannot top that. Now the show just feels very small and really boring.

After listening to your podcast I love NoRightAnwser even more - are there any podcast with you guys anywhere? What's Kayle's site?

The Possom man is on his way - Im working on design, should I sent the raw sketches?

Lost was one of the best shows ever in Seasons 1 and 2, a good show in 3, became mediocre in 4 and 5 and was mostly just bad TV in 6. Most TV shows lose focus sooner or later, they begin to add too many characters and too many sub and side plots. They feel like well-produced soap operas.

But there is no way to really end a show like Lost well. NO explanation will ever be good. Twist endings have all been done and they're almost impossible to pull off in a TV show - as opposed to a movie - because of all the time spent on it. A twist ending will probably contradict too many things and it will just invalidate everything before.
And all non-twist endings to Lost will be either mundane (yeah, it's just people and technology) or supernatural (angels, aliens, whatnot).

Heroes was an awesome show for half a season and decent for the second half. The writer's strike gutted it in season 2 and it never recovered. A bit sad.

Lost was so great because even though what was happening was insane and shark jumping you still felt totally invested because of how well written the characters were and how cool the world was set up. That's how I felt anyway.

rembrandtqeinstein:
If you want to see a better take on the whole "ordinary people get superpowers" thing check out Misfits:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1548850/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Just finished season 1, really good so far. IMDB comments say season 2 is good and 3 dies but 2 good seasons is about all a lot of shows have.

Yea, season 1 and 2 were fantastic.

Season 3 was boring as all hell though. Got worse the next season too.

Sad, sad days.

You're just making me mad about the end of Lost all over again...

But seriously, now, Chris should have gotten two or three points at least for that Train Analogy.

That was inspired.

Not even a contest, Lost jumped the shark so regularly there was a ramp set up just for them... kinda the point though, and before the shitty ending it almost worked in the show's favor.

And I liked Heroes right up until the end, sure it certainly had problems, but it was still a live-action superhero series, and it had great moments, a few interesting characters and in some ways, seemed like it was paying tribute to comic books with how it played out.

Lost was fucking great. And the ending makes sense. And they explain almost everything. And it was fucking great.

LightspeedJack:
Lost was so great because even though what was happening was insane and shark jumping you still felt totally invested because of how well written the characters were and how cool the world was set up. That's how I felt anyway.

Exactly. It always pushed things right to the edge, but it never went full retard. That's what made it compelling.

Woodsey:
Lost was fucking great. And the ending makes sense. And they explain almost everything. And it was fucking great.

LightspeedJack:
Lost was so great because even though what was happening was insane and shark jumping you still felt totally invested because of how well written the characters were and how cool the world was set up. That's how I felt anyway.

Exactly. It always pushed things right to the edge, but it never went full retard. That's what made it compelling.

I agree with these two. The crazy stuff in Lost made it enjoyable but also had really well written characters.

Roroshi14:
Am I the only one who liked the complete second season of Heroes? It introduced my favorite character Daphne! After she died then I quickly lost interest in the show though. Then the last season seemed like it could go somewhere, but it didnt so... ehh only a few good things came out of that show. First my discovery of Brea Grants and two I cant watch How I Met Your Mother without seeing Ted's mom and saying "'ey it's Ms. Petrelli!"

No, you're not. I loved Heroes, and I have all the seasons on DVD (apart from the fourth, which I've never seen, because it never aired in New Zealand, and I didn't even know it existed until late last year). I'll admit the Third season was really hard to get into, going into sub-plots that I couldn't care about at all, and it took way too long to develop any real momentum, and several characters disappeared and never returned (remember the girl who could imitate anyone she sees?). They killed off Adam, and he was my favourite villain, and his and Hiro's reuniting was really disappointing. I couldn't have cared less about Sylar's parents, and his creepy turning-into-my-mum thing was way too weird. And I really loved the future episode where everyone had powers, and Claire was a total baddass, and Peter was the bad guy, but then we never saw more than that. I still loved it though, because cinematically it was beautiful, and the actors were all phenomenal.

Lost on the other hand...bloody hell. When the island became a living thing that could shift in time, that's when all hope for any and all TV shows was lost. The only thing I'm looking forward to is a new show with Daniel Radcliffe in it. Everything else is mediocre.

Wolcik:
After listening to your podcast I love NoRightAnwser even more - are there any podcast with you guys anywhere? What's Kayle's site?

The Possom man is on his way - Im working on design, should I sent the raw sketches?

We love you too! No, keep the sketches and have a big reveal!

Kapol:
But that isn't the point I think. They aren't arguing which is the worse show. They're arguing which one had jumped the shark the most. I've not seen either, but the general fact that Heroes just couldn't seem to do anything right, especially past the first season, just sounds like it makes it a poor show to start with and it went on a continous downhill track from there. Lost sounds like it had some good stuff, but it just kept getting worse and worse from the first three seasons or so. Which means that Heroes only really jumped the shark once before it got bad. Lost, on the other hand, sounds like it managed to bring viewers on a roller-coaster of interest which gave them some hope but smashed that hope before long.

Well, here's the thing I should perhaps have made clearer:

Taken on its own in isolation, Season 1 of Heroes was quite possibly the best superhero television show ever made. Just about every criticism I made of everything that came after wasn't true in Season 1. Characters had arcs and development; they were relatable, and some of the plot developments had real resonance: the estrangement between the brothers, the internal struggle of choosing between ambition and doing the right thing, discovering that against all prior expectations you were intended to play a central role in important events.

More, it was possible to ask basic questions of the plot and expect to have them answered: Why was it important to "save the cheerleader"? Why could one of the brothers sometimes fly, and sometimes not? What was the nature of the doom that was facing New York?

By Season 2, things like suggesting that causing a future timeline someone had been left stranded in to cease to exist was "rescuing them" or someone who could regenerate just knowing that being decapitated would mean their death just kind of breezed on by. Characters moved backwards, and writer Kring would later make comments to the press that things like romance "just weren't a good fit for the show" (ignoring that romance could be a good fit for the show if a) we believed the characters had a reason to be romantically involved abd b) none of those so involved appeared to be sociopaths).

While some may dispute this, I'd argue that Lost, by comparison, was actually pretty even in quality throughout its run. Certainly it had its ups and downs and its share of arbitrary plot twists, but arguably its failing was not that it got worse but that the questions established from the beginning were sometimes answered questionably and other times answered not at all. Lost made people ask questions; the expectations that those questions had good answers may have been let down, but arguably that's as much the problem of the expectations themselves as the writing.

Lost was basically one long, six year story. Heroes was a different story each season with some of the same characters, none of which measured up to the first, and most of which degraded the elements that made that first season work.

Callate:
*snip*

Again, that makes it sound more like it's the worse of the two shows, or the more disappointing. But I don't think that really qualifies as jumping the shark more. It sounds like, from season 2 onwards, it just got bad more than anything. But I don't know for sure.

I personally despise the use of idioms like "jump the shark", mostly because like other similar phrases it's become a go-to tool for people on the internet to bludgeon whatever show, movie, etc. in a post-experience manner. And while I'm certainly guilty of this myself, people that do this have such a strong presence on the Internet that it's becoming exhausting to me.

Also, best derailment metaphor ever.

Also, who's Gary Mitchell?

Lost never appealed to me. Even early on I could tell it was a "mystery for the sake of mystery" show, and I've honestly come to hate that because they're always writing out of their ass with no coherent plan even episode to episode. It's not always bad, but I feel we get more "The Events" and fewer 4400s.

Heroes, ugh now this hurts. I actually took a while to warm to the show, faded off midseason, then came back with a full vengeance. Then things got goofy. There's a lot of talk about what went wrong, however blaming the writer's strike isn't one of them. If they had a good idea, they could have picked up where they'd left off and used the original plan of the virus getting out. However fans had been jumping ship like they'd found out they were on the Titanic. The most common complaint was lost momentum, which I always took as people expected this show to be the x-men. I was never under that opinion, and felt the show was supposed to be about the "everyday" heroes like single moms and EMTs that just happen to have superpowers. The show went the other way trying for more action based, and failing pretty hard, due in no small part to contrivacies to keep characters around, or ideas very comic booky like lost identical siblings, evil future mes, and whatever the hell they were thinking with Sylar. By books 4 and 5, even the mysteries that had originated in the show had given up and while they were good ideas, nothing was well pulled off, and always felt rushed.

I'll take your Heroes season 2 and raise you Dark Angel season 2. That shark went into orbit. How do you screw up Pretender + Batman? Well they did.

All the interesting antagonists in the first season? Dead! Paralyzed friend creating interesting tension between himself and his super-soldier friend? Give him legs! Add an annoying werewolf that makes Jar Jar and Scrappy Doo tolerable!

Assassin Xaero:
I watched Lost all the way through a few months ago, and I really liked it. I can see why people wouldn't (especially the last season), though.

They point out people can't let go of Lost, but did so easily of Heroes. Y'know, Benedict Arnold's betrayal hurt so much because he was an awesome general. I'm sure, like Heroes, there were less greats that also betrayed us and we forget them as they were meh.

Lost really was great. They gave us a terrific quantum physics idea for the last two seasons, promised all along that these (and everyone is supposed to know this entire thread is about spoilers, so, this follows!) guys were NOT dead, then, let the whole time travel quantum physics idea be irrelevant and, yeah, the Lost Alts were actually in the after life.

As someone put it better, it is like they gave us an intriguing concept that hooked us in and then explained, "oh, well, this is just a weird magic happy place where weird stuff happens." Unacceptable.

Before I even knew the shows these guys would fight over, I picked Lost for the shark jumper of this generation. Heroes never really got going. Lost did.. and really got lost by the end.

rembrandtqeinstein:
If you want to see a better take on the whole "ordinary people get superpowers" thing check out Misfits:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1548850/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Just finished season 1, really good so far. IMDB comments say season 2 is good and 3 dies but 2 good seasons is about all a lot of shows have.

Yeah, that's actually another good example for a show that jumped the shark. The first two seasons are excellent though.

The thing about Lost was everyone said "purgatory, they are all dead". The writers said no, its something different and original. An it turns out it was purgatory, what every one said way back in series one. Complete waste of a good show. Not so much it jumped the shark as filled the many episodes with pointless stuff that wasnt important to the overall plot and characters. Especially when you get to the ending, it makes a lot of the previous series pointless.

24. Now i love 24, but after the last series its good they stopped there. It becomes difficult to come up with new stuff and not redoing things from previous series.

Xfiles.....now theres a show that jumped the shark. Just kept adding more complications an weirdness to there "mythos" as the series went on. Still love the earlier series.

Lost, imo. Especially, like they said, going from barely pseudo-science to "lol purgatory"
I'd like to give a special mention to Happy Days, for coining the term...

Honorary mention to Fringe who also jumped the shark lots. But did make sense sort of at the end...

I can pin-point the exact moment in Heroes when I just felt 'this is shite, why am I watching this'? Not just that, but I could actually see a shark jump out of my desk, over my screen, do a little dance, and then dive back in the water.
For those that do remember it, that moment when the boy that could fly says to the cheerleader 'I won't let you fall'. It took me a weak to clean up all the puke that resulted from that.
Not that I've ever seen Twilight, but I could hardly imagine even that being that bad.

I am now glad, perhaps even greatly so, that I never got a chance to watch EITHER series because I was too busy playing video games.

BTW...nice Charizard Red Ranger shirt there. But, uh...I wonder if you've seen THIS by any chance...

SonOfVoorhees:
The thing about Lost was everyone said "purgatory, they are all dead". The writers said no, its something different and original. An it turns out it was purgatory, what every one said way back in series one. Complete waste of a good show. Not so much it jumped the shark as filled the many episodes with pointless stuff that wasnt important to the overall plot and characters. Especially when you get to the ending, it makes a lot of the previous series pointless.

No. Only the alternative timeline in season 6 was purgatory. They made that pretty clear.

Oh god... that train metaphor, it was just too epic. It should have been the natural end to Chris' whole argument!

I loved the hell out of Heroes season 1. I watched a couple of season 2's episodes and just said... meh.

I watched the first episode of Lost long after it became a thing. I was never intrigued enough to continue. Thankfully.

I remember watching Lost, getting super excited about the next episode when it ended and cursing that it would take one whole week but at some point, I kind of lost interest. The show was on hold for a few months and when it came back, I just wasn't really that interested anymore. I tried to get back to it but I couldn't. Same happened with Heroes, just quicker.

Heroes was also the first TV show I ever bought. Such a disappointment (well not the first season... it was pretty interesting).

I didn't mind most of season 4 of Lost. It was all of Season 6 that had me so confused and frustrated. I give the win to Heroes for not even making it to Season 2 >__>

I'd watch a show that was just Hurley and Sawyer. Without Kate and Jack it would have been better =D

List of things Heroes borrowed from Marvel:

1) Days of the Future Past (alternate reality episode)...
2) Phoenix Saga
3) *Mutant* Registration Act (later brought up again as the Superhero Registration Act)
4...

I quit watching.

SonOfVoorhees:
The thing about Lost was everyone said "purgatory, they are all dead". The writers said no, its something different and original. An it turns out it was purgatory, what every one said way back in series one. Complete waste of a good show. Not so much it jumped the shark as filled the many episodes with pointless stuff that wasnt important to the overall plot and characters. Especially when you get to the ending, it makes a lot of the previous series pointless.

Nonsense. They weren't in purgatory at all. People believed they were because of the "flash-sideways" but that timeline wasn't separate at all. It didn't happen alternately or concurrently with the events on the island at all. That timeline was the future, only presented as if it was happening alternately. In a way, it was kind of funny to me; it was almost as if the writers were making fun of the "they're all dead" theorists. "Well of course they were dead at the end, everyone dies eventually."

I didn't even make it past the episode were Hayden Panetierre wakes up from her autopsy for Heroes. But Lost? At it's worst, Lost was a quirky sci-fi/fantasy series that didn't like answering most of the questions it raised (although this helpful cracked article gives you some). But at its best? At its best, Lost was one of the greatest character dramas ever. Most shows only get one or two great characters. Lost managed to have several. Ben, Jin, Sun, Charlie, Sayid, Sawyer, Desmond, Richard, and John Locke is probably one of the best characters ever; they're all powerful characters with flaws and motivations. They make mistakes. They change. They grow. Did it have weird and sometimes dumb plot twists? Absolutely, but the setting and the mysteries were never the heart of this show. Its heart was always the characters. And in that regard, the show succeeded fantastically.

Both shows have really solid first seasons. But LOST is so much better, Heroes went downhill since its unsatisfying season one finale. LOST kept getting better and better until a really divisive final season. The cast was perfect, the direction rivaled what we see on the big screen with impressive production values. Risks were taken with the plot...some paid off, other didn't. But it has such an interesting identity that even when it fails, it fails gloriously! With a gripping soundtrack and memorable episodes, it remains one of my all-time favourite tv shows, second only to Twin Peaks.

Heroes showed promise and copied what's exciting about superhero comics. The later seasons copied the parts where comics failed in the 90's.Limited character development, killing and ressurecting characters left and right, altering character's personalities for shock value and overabundance of new uninteresting characters.

LOST may jump the shark, but to me it was never boring. Heroes overstayed its welcome fast.

purifico:
That train metaphor was glorious.

Can't say anything about Lost since I've stopped watching after season 1. Season 1 was awesome. The first 3 episodes of season 2 were so bad and made me so angry that were it a game my reaction would have been a rage quit followed by deleting the game, snapping the disc in half and throwing your computer out of the window. So yeah. Can't really say how bad the rest of the show was as my memories of the show stay mostly unmarred.

My vote goes to Heroes. I managed to see the show to it's end and boy was it not pretty. Never seen anything start so well and end so badly. You could basically see the show detoriate before your eyes, losing rotten limbs and finally collapsing into a pile of putrid flesh. So very sad.

rembrandtqeinstein:
If you want to see a better take on the whole "ordinary people get superpowers" thing check out Misfits:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1548850/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Just finished season 1, really good so far. IMDB comments say season 2 is good and 3 dies but 2 good seasons is about all a lot of shows have.

Unfortunately it goes the way of heroes after season 2. The first 2 seasons of Misfits are outstanding. The latter 2 not so much. They loose the overarcing story and become a compilation of episodes that are mostly not connected to each other in any way. The accent on superpowers also kinda whittles. Plus

SPOILER!!!!!!!

all the leading people from the start of the show leave by the end of season 3 and are replaced by new crew that can't even hold a candle to the original misfits.

yeah it sort of seemed it was only ment to last 2 seasons, i have no idea why they decided to go on. the first 2 seasons were fantastic, and it's all you really need to watch.

I watched Heroes. Stopped after about halfway through season 1. I just could not keep up.

Lost was a weekly things with my father. Still impossible to keep up, but good.

Question I want to see? Tim Curry vs Jeremy Irons: Who's the better villainous voice?

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