Reel Physics: Shoot Em Up - Now that's a Hand-Gun

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Shoot Em Up - Now that's a Hand-Gun

This week we wonder if Clive Owen would need to register his hand-gun.

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Hey everyone, we have a fun episode for you this week... Shoot Em Up with one of my favorite actors out there, Clive Owen.

This movie was a hell of a lot of fun to watch and going back to it for this episode made me want more movies like this in the future.

This is a great scene from the movie that was a lot more interesting to cover once we got into it. I hope you like it!

Jason Dean
REEL PHYSICS

They should check out Mythbusters, they actually tested something like this. That was to see whether ammo in an oven would ignite if you would turn the oven on.

OT: I agree with the time this movie was still believable. But then again, that was sort of the over the top style it was going for, so I'd let it slide. Note: Listen closely, you can hear 8 shots from four bullets.

I was always rather impressed Clive Owen was able to pull off the serious and the ridiculous version of the same story.

Henkie36:
OT: I agree with the time this movie was still believable. But then again, that was sort of the over the top style it was going for, so I'd let it slide. Note: Listen closely, you can hear 8 shots from four bullets.

That's probably the sound of the charges in Giamatti's shirt going off. I also noticed they didn't turn the sound for the movie off even when they were explaining the formulas over the slow motion part.

Mythbusters also did it for replacing a fuse in a car with a bullet. It turns out that while the bullet will fire, the casing actually explodes so it's more of a grenade than a ballistic

Henkie36:
Note: Listen closely, you can hear 8 shots from four bullets.

DVS BSTrD:
That's probably the sound of the charges in Giamatti's shirt going off. I also noticed they didn't turn the sound for the movie off even when they were explaining the formulas over the slow motion part.

Yea, we saw the Mythbusters episode a long time ago covering the shotgun shells in the oven. This is different though.

As for the sound of the 8 shots, it's a bit misleading but that's from the scene cut... It's a similar effect when you see old action movies show the same explosion from 3 different camera views. There weren't 3 different explosions, but it costs a lot of money and the directors always overdid it with how much coverage they would give it. This is the same and probably an homage of sorts to that style of directing... 4 bullets go off with the sound from one camera angle of the bullets in his hand and then they replay the scene again from the angle where we see the bullets hit Giamatti. It's just old-style action movie editing. ;)

Thanks for watching, guys!
Jason Dean
REEL PHYSICS

Well, that was entertaining, as always. And i love those goof-ups that are shown during the credits.
Keep up the good work!

Somehow this made me think of Wanted. Can you guys figure out whether someone can actually make bullets curve around things?

spwatkins:
Somehow this made me think of Wanted. Can you guys figure out whether someone can actually make bullets curve around things?

I second this request.

spwatkins:
Somehow this made me think of Wanted. Can you guys figure out whether someone can actually make bullets curve around things?

uneek:
I second this request.

You never know what the next week might bring...
Jason Dean
REEL PHYSICS

Anakinnnn:
Yea, we saw the Mythbusters episode a long time ago covering the shotgun shells in the oven. This is different though.

I wonder, have you had any contact with Mythbusters? Do they watch your show?

Don Reba:

Anakinnnn:
Yea, we saw the Mythbusters episode a long time ago covering the shotgun shells in the oven. This is different though.

I wonder, have you had any contact with Mythbusters? Do they watch your show?

That's a good question. I hope they watch it. ;) Those guys are far busier and more important than we are so I highly doubt they even know we exist. I have watched their show since it debuted and their budget allows for some pretty wild stuff. I think our show is just as interesting but in a more scientific method versus their experimental approach. Math doesn't lie... but experiments can yield different results based on so many factors when doing them for a TV show. They get a lot of grief from fans requesting them to do experiments again in different ways... from what I have seen.

Jason Dean
REEL PHYSICS

Also, assuming it did work, wouldn't it tear his fingers off? Or am I crazy? ...or both?

Gentlemen, I think there's another element of this that was missed. My issue with the scene wasn't just that there's no barrel, but, instead, that there was no chamber that it was being fired in. When the round is fired, the casing is held within a solid, usually steel, chamber that can handle the force of the expansion outwards, and so directs the gases and accompanying force forward and backward. I'm not entirely sure, given that I've never tried and can't do the math, but, I'm mostly certain that without a chamber, a fired round's casing would crack and peel back and a lot of the force would go sideways into his hand. At least, that's the theory I'm working with. And, of course, that's ignoring that there would be no rifling, and the round could probably not be expected to go in any sort of a direction reliably. Let me know what you guys think.

uneek:

spwatkins:
Somehow this made me think of Wanted. Can you guys figure out whether someone can actually make bullets curve around things?

I second this request.

I can actually answer that one" no, you can't. To fire around corners requires a special gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RaubAtWZQM

Anakinnnn:

Don Reba:
I wonder, have you had any contact with Mythbusters? Do they watch your show?

That's a good question. I hope they watch it. ;) Those guys are far busier and more important than we are so I highly doubt they even know we exist. I have watched their show since it debuted and their budget allows for some pretty wild stuff. I think our show is just as interesting but in a more scientific method versus their experimental approach. Math doesn't lie... but experiments can yield different results based on so many factors when doing them for a TV show. They get a lot of grief from fans requesting them to do experiments again in different ways... from what I have seen.

Math doesn't lie, but a mathematical model is just as open to criticism as a physical experiment. You are certainly seeing this already in this comment thread. And if you did statistics, you would have had people picking your priors apart.

Excellent episode, but my thoughts were more on would the casing hold together when the round cooked off. In my head I imagine that the case would probably split or burst. Any thoughts?

uneek:

spwatkins:
Somehow this made me think of Wanted. Can you guys figure out whether someone can actually make bullets curve around things?

I second this request.

It was already done on Mythbusters.
I think "arrow" ammo with integrated moving heads was experimented with by the US around 1996-7.
The shape of the bullet head changes, causing it to change course.

On the episode:
I was really intrigued to know if it would help much if he'd held the casing really tight, so not as much energy would be wasted on it flying backwards... Can you guys throw that into your formula real quick?

I'd appreciate more of the "what if" angle in upcoming episodes.
Where a little tweak might make the needed jump from reel to real.

On future episode ideas:
I think The Matrix has some interesting things going on in the chopper scene.
Doesn't he run across a window when dangling or something?

This one was a gimme do a less easy to call scene next week.

Great episode guys!

Can you check out why StormTroopers always miss?
Nah just kidding!!

The movie is otherwise very good too so if you haven't seen it, see it!

Great as always guys, I really love this series!
You think you could take a look at RED?
Specifically the scene where Karl Urban's character rams Bruce Willis, in a police cruiser, spins the car and Bruce walks out opening fire narrowly missing the back end of the cruiser as it spins some more.

I love this movie! The previous episode (Torque) reminded me of this - silly crazy stupid fun, of course Shoot em up is definitely better then Torque.

I really appreciate how you guys respond to us on the forums!

Mumorpuger:
I really appreciate how you guys respond to us on the forums!

Absolutely! We love that you guys not only take the time to watch the show but you also take the time to come hang out here in the forums with us and discuss the finer details of the episode. We have to cut out a LOT of stuff and many of the comments and questions we get here are things we generally have gone over in preparation for the show but had to cut out due to time, relevance, or interest in making the show watchable. We could bore you guys to death with how much extra is cut when it comes to variables and equations and research... ;)

Thanks very much for your interest in the show! We can't do it without all of you!

Jason Dean
REEL PHYSICS

And you couldn't just get some bullets, a fire and a mannequin hand?

Also, forget the hand cannon, I want to know if a carrot can kill if you stab it in to someone's eye?

spwatkins:
Somehow this made me think of Wanted. Can you guys figure out whether someone can actually make bullets curve around things?

uneek:

spwatkins:
Somehow this made me think of Wanted. Can you guys figure out whether someone can actually make bullets curve around things?

I second this request.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFMQSdJXyF4

OT: So what really happened to your hand? If anything at all?

Much as I like this show, I'm increasingly looking forawrd to it each week just for the outtakes at the end.

[quote="DanHibiki" post="6.402652.16621719"]And you couldn't just get some bullets, a fire and a mannequin hand?quote]

They mention that they'd need to hold the hand in the fire for a while, at which point the mannekin hand would most likely have melted

Yeah, I see people have mentioned this, but yes, bullets will go off in a fire or an oven and can go off as low as 280 degrees.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/21/17045722-woman-shot-by-oven-while-trying-to-cook-waffles

With all the over the top shit going on in this movie, the fact that that scene isnt possible doesnt surprise me in the slightest... now if you'll excuse me, I have to go watch Shoot'em Up again...

*Edit*

Also, just because I cant think of either of these without the other:

ok being someone who makes their own 45acp ammo, there is another level of, it can't happen that is missed by none "reloaders," Powder Burn rate. Simply put Bullets don't explode they rapidly burn. modern smokeless powders burn at various speeds based off of the individual chemistry of the powder. Most bullets do not reach max operating pressure till the bullet has partially traveled down the barrel. to get even more technical bullets can be seated so that the total length of a 45acp round can be anywhere from 1.16-1.27 inches in length and still be "in Spec."

to the guy who asked if the brass cases would crack or explode the answer is not so clear. New brass Cases can handle a fair bit of pressure in relative terms a round exerting 40k psi on a new casing that is unsupported will bend and deform the casing but not crack a new casing so it is not inconceivable that with only the strength of your hand that the lower pressure 45acp brass casings would be relatively fine.

Draconalis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFMQSdJXyF4

OT: So what really happened to your hand? If anything at all?

I hate that video link, the second part where they have the "3" different alterations to the bullets is not real they only have 1 with 3 different quantities of weight reduction. they would have to Cast their own bullets to actually change the aerodynamics or weight distribution of the round without also affecting the weight of the round.

Its sort of amazing how little my status as a gun-nut helps me keep up with the math here. But that's what we're all here for, no doubt.

LadyRhian:

uneek:

I can actually answer that one" no, you can't. To fire around corners requires a special gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RaubAtWZQM

I don't want to nit-pick here, but so that you aren't misled as to CornerShot's specifications, it is actually a special housing for a normal, standard issue firearm. I don't mean to correct you; only inform. [quote="kailus13" post="6.402652.16622090"][quote="DanHibiki" post="6.402652.16621719"]

They mention that they'd need to hold the hand in the fire for a while, at which point the mannekin hand would most likely have melted

Colby's face when he says "...No." kind of tells the story. :)

Henkie36:
Note: Listen closely, you can hear 8 shots from four bullets.

they might have remembered that the igniters you know.. exist and fired in response to the main powder?

by far the most plausible thing i see here, frankly

As for the "can it go through the skin",

Is the bullet's pointy form taken into account?
I mean, I can understand if a fairly round paintball is better able to transfer all it's kinetic energy when it hits you (if that makes sense.. like, it smashes into you and then stop). But isn't a bullet pointy? Wouldn't that make it easier for it to cut through you?
You mention near the end that it would penetrate his skin,how deep do you think it would go?

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