Leave Me The F**k Alone

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I dunno, I can understand it in some situations, but when it's just talking or something like that I don't get it.
If it is something quick that you'll miss if you're facing the wrong direction, it's probably justified.

That is something that has always bothered me. Some of the coolest moments in gaming or when you just kinda notice stuff and it happen organically.

Golden middle way. Just don't overdo it.

I'm reminded of Bulletstorm which has a load of different locked viewpoint ingame cutscenes, typically where you're falling. I like them. While they're not intellectual deep thought scenarios, you see what the intent with the scene was.
If you're free falling for a short period and you have free mouse movement, you're bound to just flail around until you hit the ground and not see anything.
In Bulletstorm it plays more like a proper action movie and I for one feel more immersed.
(Ignoring a shit ton of other bad stuff in the game, it's just an example).

I have a question though. Isn't it pretty damn obvious which games will have them or not?

This comic could really have done with a Clockwork Orange reference in the last panel.

Zykon TheLich:
This comic could really have done with a Clockwork Orange reference in the last panel.

Just would have confused more than half the readers, and we would need to spend the entire thread explaining it to them. The references they do put in the comic almost always have the same effect.

Yeah there is a bit of an over the top need for control and also slightly irritating lack of lesson learned in them

I prefer that they SHOW me the stuff, there are many horror games where I simply missed some pretty scary moments simply because I wasn't looking at the right direction, and many other times missed downright epic events because, again, I was paying attention to something else. Also, camera, I love when God of War simply fixes the camera in a given position in order to, say, focus on the scope of the scenario.
However, sometimes it is frustrating and imbecilic, like when, as said in the comic strip, they focus on a wolf, a wolf like any other of the thousands of wolves that you'll encounter the whole damn game, for no reason at all, it's a cool dire wolf with body armor, it's not a boss, it's a wolf you've been hunting for, or at least the first time you encounter said enemy, it's just one of many, then it feels empty...

i agree, if you steal my camera i hate you.

game devs do it all the time, if they want my attention make me do the cool thing. don't have it just happen
why should the npc's have all the fun while i watch?

I would Erin but I find your bangs hypnotic... 0_0

I don't mind it if it's used sparingly and sensibly. Like, level intros, or "next bit" intros inside levels.

Quiet a bit of that in "Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines", but that seemed to be along the lines of "Hey look at this for a second, it's important" than showing ff, and it worked. Useful when there's something you want to tell the player so they don't spend ages wandering around wandering what they should do next.

I get irritated when they hold my hand to teach me how to play the game (I often skip tutorials and learn as i go if it's an option), but the game is unplayable when they hold my hand the entire game.

It would appear that videogames have found the missing "2nd person" perspective. Also:
image
Look at it! Look, Look! Don't miss it! Are you seeing this? It's important!

Some of the alternatives can be annoying too.

Like the trigger-a-plot-important-event-as-soon-as-the-player-looks-at-it routine. This falls down horribly when I'm swinging the camera around, trigger an event in passing, and don't notice until I've missed most of it. Unlike static things that you can find and examine at your leisure, it's generally not possible to re-trigger events you missed.

I agree with this to no end, it's annoying as hell when they do it constantly, disrupting the game, instead of going for the subtle, "it's more your choice to see it" approach.

MetalMagpie:
Some of the alternatives can be annoying too.

Like the trigger-a-plot-important-event-as-soon-as-the-player-looks-at-it routine. This falls down horribly when I'm swinging the camera around, trigger an event in passing, and don't notice until I've missed most of it. Unlike static things that you can find and examine at your leisure, it's generally not possible to re-trigger events you missed.

Yeah, this is something that maybe could be handled a bit better, but still has to be in the gaming world. Immersion is nice, but if you never take control of the camera away it becomes like Skyrim... you have all the freedom in the world, but the story is shit because you can't tell one without at least a little guidance. Is Journey less of an incredible game because it has cutscenes?

Journey does its best to be as free and immersing as possible, and even it has flaws in the gameplay. I can't remember how often I see people run around not even noticing the glow on the edges of the screen, only learning later that someone was with you and trying to get your attention, and you were being a gigantic dick and ignoring them.

"Take control of away"...."TAKE CONTROL OF AWAY"?!

Quick men, throw your F7 keys at them.

Captcha: "bet on cheltenham at betfair"
Solve media is making me write advertising slogans to post on forums now?

And yet, I'm sure most of the people with these complaints still worship MGSIV.

For me it sometimes works, I can definitely understand hating it though. The only times I condone it, is when there are tiny plot points that are easy to miss. The first example, I may never forget, is at the beginning of Fallout 3, when escaping the vault. The player is supposed to decide to help their childhood friend or not, but I couldn't recognize her because the character model looks like so much dirt was rubbed on it that I couldn't find her. It makes it worst that she's in a room directly on your path to the exit, I thought she was just some random redshirt. Then I get bitched at for not saving the damsel and get irritated at the character models even more. A short, fixed camera or focus would have been nice.

I actually think Tomb Raider 2013 managed to hit a good middle ground with this. They gave the player control while keeping the action and explosions in your line of sight. And when they did take control away, it was for a short amount of time and usually came right after a rather mashy quicktime event to give you a slight reprieve.

I think when used right, taking away a bit of control for a small amount of time can be nice. It's just when overused or poorly used that it becomes a less of a game and more of a movie. Even worse is when the characters you're playing get to do way more cool stuff like surfing on their swords to kill demons or having awesome aerial battles or just do stuff you never get to do. I'm looking at you MGS4 and every Devil May Cry and Final Fantasy ever.

grigjd3:
And yet, I'm sure most of the people with these complaints still worship MGSIV.

I don't think cutscenes are the same thing as forced camera positions during gamepaly. Your mileage may vary though

It's preferable to missing stuff simply because you weren't looking in the right direction at the time.

bafrali:

grigjd3:
And yet, I'm sure most of the people with these complaints still worship MGSIV.

I don't think cutscenes are the same thing as forced camera positions during gamepaly. Your mileage may vary though

Cut-scenes imply forced camera. Anyhow, I'd be shocked to discover there was any gameplay at all in MGSIV. After playing through the first eight hours of the game, I certainly didn't find any. Just a terrible movie. Also, the comic didn't specify forced camera vs cut-scene. It just specified forcing the player to look at something.

maninahat:
"Take control of away"...."TAKE CONTROL OF AWAY"?!

Quick men, throw your F7 keys at them.

Captcha: "bet on cheltenham at betfair"
Solve media is making me write advertising slogans to post on forums now?

For a looong time now.

grigjd3:

bafrali:

grigjd3:
And yet, I'm sure most of the people with these complaints still worship MGSIV.

I don't think cutscenes are the same thing as forced camera positions during gamepaly. Your mileage may vary though

Cut-scenes imply forced camera. Anyhow, I'd be shocked to discover there was any gameplay at all in MGSIV. After playing through the first eight hours of the game, I certainly didn't find any. Just a terrible movie. Also, the comic didn't specify forced camera vs cut-scene. It just specified forcing the player to look at something.

But at least it doesn't pretend to be gameplay or have you in control. Whether efficient or not, I find them at least honest to the player about what they are.

Too true guys. Good comic.

So many developers want to be "cinematic" but in AAA titles that just usually turns into "Bay-tastic explosion-fest". Dead Space, Uncharted, apparently the new Tomb Raider even Far Cry 3 had it. I don't know whats worse, having the camera remain in first person (if its a fps) to prepare for the inevitable QTE or just have cinematic after cinematic. Strangest thing? Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance had both of these yet they didn't bother me... I have no idea why.

I miss the games that let you piece the story together yourself from things you find in the world. Usually they still were linear stories but unless you found little lore snippets (metroid prime) listened to audiologs or read cryptic writings found on items (Dark Souls) you might not get the full story. And even if you did, what you read might be cryptic enough to leave you speculating. I think stuff like that adds replay value.

because i don't wanna quote people....

1. the forced camera bananas is kinda okay if and when done right, there is no such thing as an absolute.
2. clockwork orange reference shoulda been a shoe-in. to the person who said it would just require too much explanation then immediately said that they always do that in this strip... your logic centers are malfunctioning.
3. take control of away was literaly the only reason i checked the comments here. not to corect it myself, but to see if i was the only one who saw it. i generally assume i'm insane unless someone verifies the insanity for me.
4. "captcha commericals" were invented by richard nixon who was possessed by hitler's ghost. i remember Ol' Scapey before they were around. I miss those days.
5. I never never never had that problem with Amata in Fallout 3. i frequently wonder about the attention span of people who have those issues because almost everytime i read about someone braindeading their way past simplistic things, i reach for my beatin' stick.
6. it's a sturdy beatin' stick.

Arakasi:
I dunno, I can understand it in some situations, but when it's just talking or something like that I don't get it.
If it is something quick that you'll miss if you're facing the wrong direction, it's probably justified.

Well then they should learn to direct eye-lines. Or quit making games if they can't accept that someone's going to miss something occasionally - that's the charm of the medium.

VanQ:
I actually think Tomb Raider 2013 managed to hit a good middle ground with this. They gave the player control while keeping the action and explosions in your line of sight. And when they did take control away, it was for a short amount of time and usually came right after a rather mashy quicktime event to give you a slight reprieve.

Tomb Raider is pretty terrible with it during set-pieces. I remember the days when you used to be allowed to actually play through them. Now they just cut-away every 5 seconds and it's disorientating as fuck. If a building's collapsing around me I don't really give a shit about what it looks like from a 45-degree aerial shot. If I wanted that I'd watch a bloody film.

OT: I am sick of this crap. It's lazy on the developer's part and equal parts irritating and infuriating and boring on mine.

Smilomaniac:
Golden middle way. Just don't overdo it.

I'm reminded of Bulletstorm which has a load of different locked viewpoint ingame cutscenes, typically where you're falling. I like them. While they're not intellectual deep thought scenarios, you see what the intent with the scene was.
If you're free falling for a short period and you have free mouse movement, you're bound to just flail around until you hit the ground and not see anything.
In Bulletstorm it plays more like a proper action movie and I for one feel more immersed.
(Ignoring a shit ton of other bad stuff in the game, it's just an example).

I have a question though. Isn't it pretty damn obvious which games will have them or not?

Another thing Bulletstorm did right in that respect is the "push a button to view this nonsense or just keep going" thing.

Someone has been playing tomb raider. The hand-holding is pretty bad, especially early on. I think it got better later in the game though.

I don't know, I'd be more inclined to compare it to that part in A Clockwork Orange where the guy is strapped down and forced to watch stuff with his eyes forced open.

Watch as people agree with the author while not making the connection that to the idea that cinematic of all types are bad because of this. Because watching a cut-scene is perfectly fine in an interactive media... for some reason.

I'll take a well made, cinematic moment that helps to amp up the drama and gravaty of a moment over being locked into a first person perspective any day of the week.

You know why I like movies? Because in a giant monster attack the cinematography generally sucks (**cough**Cloverfield sucked**cough**). In a Godzillia movie you always have the best camera angel for when he uses a super attack or a swarm of tanks open fire. Taking the camera away from the iron sights for a brief moment to prove to me I'm not just some floating gun isn't all that bad. If the cinematography is well done all the better.

Now forcing the floating gun I'm playing to turn to look at something I wasn't looking at is a hole other story. Don't do that.

Woodsey:

Arakasi:
I dunno, I can understand it in some situations, but when it's just talking or something like that I don't get it.
If it is something quick that you'll miss if you're facing the wrong direction, it's probably justified.

Well then they should learn to direct eye-lines. Or quit making games if they can't accept that someone's going to miss something occasionally - that's the charm of the medium.

VanQ:
I actually think Tomb Raider 2013 managed to hit a good middle ground with this. They gave the player control while keeping the action and explosions in your line of sight. And when they did take control away, it was for a short amount of time and usually came right after a rather mashy quicktime event to give you a slight reprieve.

Tomb Raider is pretty terrible with it during set-pieces. I remember the days when you used to be allowed to actually play through them. Now they just cut-away every 5 seconds and it's disorientating as fuck. If a building's collapsing around me I don't really give a shit about what it looks like from a 45-degree aerial shot. If I wanted that I'd watch a bloody film.

OT: I am sick of this crap. It's lazy on the developer's part and equal parts irritating and infuriating and boring on mine.

What he said. Let me play the damn game and see/miss things as they happen. It adds to the charm of re-playing games when you notice stuff you missed your first time through. Just fuck off and leave me alone!

Too many people with too much control do not think they can trust the player with thier own playtime.

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