The Elder Scrolls Online Preview - Mud Crabs & Joe DiMaggio

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Ickabod:
I'm sorry but this sounds like a disaster in the making. The media are getting a play test but there is a mountain of items that need to be worked on still. You know what that means, rushed content.

I like the Elder Scrolls so I'm hoping for the best, but honestly I'm seeing some yellow flags here (not red, just yellow at this point.)

The media are getting to play what is essentially the tutorial area, that stuff was probably developed a looooooooong time ago.

And I can pretty confidently say the game has been in development for a looooooooong time too, rumours about an Elder Scrolls MMO and 'Zenimax Online Studio' have been circulating for at least 5 years now.

Fiz_The_Toaster:
EDIT: After looking at the screenshots I'm gonna have to try to get over the fact that there are spiders, and try to fight them without freaking out. Ugh.

Maybe they'll have a mod for that.

Busard:
Yeah no, I still have the same worries that I had when it was announced, and some of them are kinda confirmed in this preview

First: the approach of "The story where YOU are the hero" again. Why do mmos keep needing to do this ? I play in a world with THOUSAND of other people, I don't WANT to be considered the centerpiece of the game, even more when other players are considered the same. Not only that, but let me chose my OWN story to freaking play, please. What if I just want to play some lonewolf who just spends my time happily hunting the wildlife in the mountains and taking bounties ? Of course the game won't entirely stop me from doing that, but I know as hell it won't reward me as much than following their cookie-cutter main plot.

This. A thousand times. This approach just kills any and all emergent gameplay dead. With fire.

I remember the days in Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies, where players set up their own towns and created their own social structures which served some tangible purpose. Every heroic story one could tell ("that one time we were trapped between a couple of Krayt Dragons"/"that time we saved the town from the invasion of an enemy guild") was real and not part of some predetermined story.
It's hard to roleplay in a game where everyone is the chosen one destined to save the princess. Heck, even if you're not into RP, it's hard to really take others seriously when really everyone just goes through the same pre-packaged story.

I for one had a lot of fun playing my secondary character in UO - a street urchin selling pies. Yes, pies. Made from fish and whatever I could find. It wasn't exactly heroic storytelling, but since there was no "main plot" to follow, I could play that character and still get the full game experience.

omicron1:
They should make an optional system that replaces PC names with procedural lore-accurate names. You know, for people who don't want to see Billy1234 passing by on the quiet provincial streets.

Good idea.

This always annoys me the very rare times I did play mmorpgs.

You are trying to immerse yourself in a different world and 'humerous' names of others avatars just break that immersion.

Fiz_The_Toaster:

EDIT: After looking at the screenshots I'm gonna have to try to get over the fact that there are spiders, and try to fight them without freaking out. Ugh.

You're not alone. I feel the same in every MMORPG I go into... actually had a panic attack when I encountered Granddaddy Longlegs in DaoC. My guild was awesome enough to call together everyone they could muster and completely wipe Campacorentin of all spiders they could find for a few hours, helping out players who needed those for a quest but making it a special point to annihilate the Boss-Spider every time just for me. Good times.

grey_space:

omicron1:
They should make an optional system that replaces PC names with procedural lore-accurate names. You know, for people who don't want to see Billy1234 passing by on the quiet provincial streets.

Good idea.

This always annoys me the very rare times I did play mmorpgs.

You are trying to immerse yourself in a different world and 'humerous' names of others avatars just break that immersion.

I totally support this idea.

The fact that there will be PvP disturbs me, I've yet to see an MMO were the PvE side wasn't negatively influenced by changes meant for the PvP side of the game.

The new level up system kind of irks me too. The fact that they aren't adding some of the guild types isn't good, and no, adding them later doesn't make it better. MMO history suggests heavily that the first impression is the only one that matters, MMOs that have fixed the majority of their release problems/lacks have shown that doing so doesn't typically get people to give them a second chance after the first taste is found wanting.

Their response to the modding question was expected, but at the end of the day it highlights the most glaring thing wrong with TESO. That it's not the single player, Elder Scrolls experience the fans expect or want. There are very particular sets of reasons people keep coming back to the TES games, and the modding community, like it yourself, or not, is one of them. No matter the excuses the developers, or the fans, will make this 'will' hurt the game. No, it won't kill them game. It will just hurt it. Yes, oddly enough when something you've come to expect from a series is suddenly gone, some people get turned off, and you lose a sale. Whodathunkit.

Obviously, this does not only apply to mods, by way of this being a multiplayer game, and not a singleplayer game, there are more than a few features of TES we know and love that are simply not going to be present. This highlights one of the most obvious problems with a TES MMO . . . 'if you're not making it in the style appreciated by your current, established and very large, fanbase, then who exactly are you making the game for?' For all the things you might bring up present, there are still a large number, well documented, that are not going to be there - these are things this developer has outright said won't be there. To the extent the developer outright told in the first place that TES fans may not like this game. Which is an insane thing to say, "We're making a TES game that fans of TES are probably going to hate" is one of the most mind boggling mission statements I've ever heard.

I think the only thing that could really kill this game, though, is if they tried to release it as a pay to play MMO. Monthly fee MMOs, outside of the very rare, particular and older MMOs with an already present loyal fanbase have largely gone the way of the dodo. The ones that still remain, are the exceptions - and yes, WoW is a major exception, literally nothing else is like it in the industry, and MMOs like Rift are also an exception (but for different reasons).

The thought that 'my MMO will be different, it will be an exception too!' borders on ridiculous, the delusions of an unstable mind. I'm very sure that if TESO is released as a pay to play MMO it will go down in flames, or turn to a buy to play or free to play model. From the recent industry successes . . . it would seem free-to-play (no monthly fees and no purchase of the game with cash shop) or buy-to-play (buy the game at full price, play forever with no monthly fee - with cash shop, and occasional expansions you can choose to purchase or not) are the current models that actually work, and actually get people to play your game.

honestly this looks boring i really hope they planning to make it F2P fast or it will fail so hard.

Monsterfurby:

Fiz_The_Toaster:

EDIT: After looking at the screenshots I'm gonna have to try to get over the fact that there are spiders, and try to fight them without freaking out. Ugh.

You're not alone. I feel the same in every MMORPG I go into... actually had a panic attack when I encountered Granddaddy Longlegs in DaoC. My guild was awesome enough to call together everyone they could muster and completely wipe Campacorentin of all spiders they could find for a few hours, helping out players who needed those for a quest but making it a special point to annihilate the Boss-Spider every time just for me. Good times.

I almost didn't buy Skyrim for that reason.

I was looking through some of the screenshots and came across one where the character was fighting a giant spider and thought, "NOPE!" Still, from what I can see they don't look too realistic, so I think I might be okay.

There's nothing more sad than watching a grown woman panic while fighting a giant digital spider all the while said woman is practically in a fetal position and swearing like crazy.

It doesn't look as awful as the original previews did, but its still looks far too generic. A TES game should aim for the amazing visual design of Morrowind, not the bland genericness of Oblivion.

Susan Arendt:

grey_space:

omicron1:
They should make an optional system that replaces PC names with procedural lore-accurate names. You know, for people who don't want to see Billy1234 passing by on the quiet provincial streets.

Good idea.

This always annoys me the very rare times I did play mmorpgs.

You are trying to immerse yourself in a different world and 'humerous' names of others avatars just break that immersion.

I totally support this idea.

So something along the lines of the option LOTRO has? That game has a lot of good ideas buried under the dross, like seperating character appearance from gear.

King of Asgaard:
I have a couple of friends with their eyes on TESO, and the thing that's keeping them on the fence is whether or not there's a subscription fee, or if it opts for the Guild Wars 2 business model, i.e., pay for the game at a base price rather than a monthly subscription fee.
I don't suppose they've let slip what they're planning on doing in that regard, have they?

This. So far the game is looking good for me. I know it won't be just like the others but if they can mix the best parts of TES and mmos then this will be a great game. The only thing thats bugging my right now is if its subscription

Hmm, if there is no online subscription fee, my computer can handle it and I can find some chums to play it with, then I might just get it, sounds interesting so far.

Susan Arendt:

King of Asgaard:
I have a couple of friends with their eyes on TESO, and the thing that's keeping them on the fence is whether or not there's a subscription fee, or if it opts for the Guild Wars 2 business model, i.e., pay for the game at a base price rather than a monthly subscription fee.
I don't suppose they've let slip what they're planning on doing in that regard, have they?

Oh, very much not. I've rarely seen a "We're not talking about that" come out of a dev's mouth faster than when the ESO guys were asked that question.

And the reason for that is because they really, really want to be a subscription game. But admitting that fact early in development would have killed a lot of the hype surrounding the game, since GW2 had already promised to offer the exact same experience for a one-time fee.

And now with TERA and SWTOR moving to free-to-play, among other major MMO titles, TESO is currently trying to decide whether or not they've created a game capable of competing with GW2 while still being a subscription game. But make no mistake, they'd love to be a subscription game. That was their plan from the start. But they're holding off for right now because they want to hook people on the hype train. It's the same tactic SWTOR used, and to some degree, GW2 itself used that same tactic (albeit tweaked a bit).

Thank god I had the highest possible chance of getting into the closed beta. My WoW guild has been around long enough to have its own website and forums, which boosts your chances.

I'm very excited, because I've outgrown any sense of satisfaction from correctly predicting something to be terrible. I want it to succeed, and I'm going into this with the most positive attitude possible.

I guess the beast races are going to have the same skeletons as the regular races once again.

Clive Howlitzer:
I guess the beast races are going to have the same skeletons as the regular races once again.

While it would be cool, I guess it's practical considering they'd have to make animations separately for those races otherwise, especially considering they'll almost definitely be the least played races.

Eeeeeehhhhit looks....cool?

This article did quell a few worries I had, but I'm still cautious.

I want it to do well, I want this thing to be fantastic, but I know it could so easily be just another MMO.

Even if the combat was like WoW or GW, just having something else to do aside from combat is something I've yearned for in all the MMO's I've played.

I just hope when this thing blows up in their face , it wont take the company with it. I would really miss the games they produce. But the Eldar scrolls will most likely end with this mess and that is to bad , but maybe they can make a new world.

Oh man, I'm getting really excited for this. I've heard really good things from the people that have played some of it - most especially about the AI's performance in group battles. I can't help it, I'm getting hyped!

But if it is subscription based, I will have to pass on it.

it's probably a bad sign for gaming journalism that this left me expecting a 2D platformer one variant of Stephen Hawking voice for VAs. Or is it game companies? Either way I'll take a look at it three expansion in if it's on offer at some point.

Trebuchets are fun. The description of PVP makes me wonder how similar it'll be to WvW. The game does sound slightly more interesting now, than before, but if it has a monthly subscription fee I'm not going anywhere near it.

Susan Arendt:

King of Asgaard:
I have a couple of friends with their eyes on TESO, and the thing that's keeping them on the fence is whether or not there's a subscription fee, or if it opts for the Guild Wars 2 business model, i.e., pay for the game at a base price rather than a monthly subscription fee.
I don't suppose they've let slip what they're planning on doing in that regard, have they?

Oh, very much not. I've rarely seen a "We're not talking about that" come out of a dev's mouth faster than when the ESO guys were asked that question.

I'm going to be that crazy person and say that I kind of hope it has a subscription. I think F2P sucks because when I'm playing the game I feel like I'm constantly being followed by a passive aggressive salesman. It usually means I spend an awful lot of time feeling like I'm playing a gimped product because they gate things such as bank space behind micro-transactions. It's not something vital to your gameplay experience, but it is damned annoying to be told every time you open up your pitifully small storage space and are reminded it could be bigger if you just gave them some money.

It's little things like that, little things that aren't restricted to players when they're already paying a monthly fee. The game is there but it's encapsulated in an infuriating bubble of sales pitches. Hell, it's why I eventually find myself back at Blizzard's doorstep; I fork over $15, I get to play, and then they never bother me again. If I want more bank space I just make larger bags on one of my characters or buy some from the auction house. They don't try to sell me on extraneous BS in game because I've already paid for a month's access for less money than it takes to go to the movies.

The other side effect is that the developers running the game have access to a steady flow of income to create more content. Sorry, but content updates in F2P games tend to suck and they tend to suck because the content updates are only adding more more crap for them to pitch to you to buy in micro-transactions. Even if the game has a subscriber option it's usually not worth the money because you're still playing a game that's designed around micro-transactions.

I forget where I heard it but it is the absolute truth about F2P games. They aren't designed around what the devs think players will find fun enough to keep them coming back. They're designed around how they can funnel players into paying for the micro-transactions. As unlikely as it is in the current environment where WoW is the only surviving subscription MMO, I really hope that Bethesda goes with and sticks with a subscription model. Otherwise TES: Online is going to be a miserable experience that I don't really want to spend my money on.

I basically have but one question at this point:

Is the first-person viewpoint the default, or at least a perfectly viable, viewpoint for this game? In PvE and PvP.

Because for some reason I really want my TES games first-person.

Susan Arendt:
The Elder Scrolls Online Preview - Mud Crabs & Joe DiMaggio

Feels like The Elder Scrolls, right down to the mud crabs and nirnroot.

Read Full Article

I hope it runs on the same graphics engine as Skyrim so that someone can port the entire map to that :D.

Ayay:
I just hope when this thing blows up in their face , it wont take the company with it. I would really miss the games they produce. But the Eldar scrolls will most likely end with this mess and that is to bad , but maybe they can make a new world.

Considering that the MMO is being made by an entirely separate company then the company that makes single player TES games, there is literally a zero % chance of that happening.

Zenimax online, the people who are making the MMO, was created specifically as to not interfere with Bethesda's game development.

No matter how many times people say it is not Bethesda but a sister-studio creating it people still go "ARGH BETHESDA MAKE MMO ARGH!"

I reserve judgement on TESO until I get to play it.
I REALLY want this to work, especially after TORtanic.

Besides I want to play an Orc in an MMO that does not sound like a soccer hooligan.

My broke ass is hoping it's FTP like LotRO with purchasable areas I can get access to with gift cards on christmas.

Ah modding...I'd almost forgotten how hideous the Elves looked without mods.

KeyMaster45:
As unlikely as it is in the current environment where WoW is the only surviving subscription MMO, I really hope that Bethesda goes with and sticks with a subscription model. Otherwise TES: Online is going to be a miserable experience that I don't really want to spend my money on.

The irony, of course, being that if the game is Free-To-Play, you wouldn't have to spend any money on it anyways.

CriticKitten:

KeyMaster45:
As unlikely as it is in the current environment where WoW is the only surviving subscription MMO, I really hope that Bethesda goes with and sticks with a subscription model. Otherwise TES: Online is going to be a miserable experience that I don't really want to spend my money on.

The irony, of course, being that if the game is Free-To-Play, you wouldn't have to spend any money on it anyways.

Actually I would as I highly doubt that Bethesda won't require you buy a game key to play initially; be it with install discs or digitally. There may be no subscription afterwards, but there is still an initial investment that I won't want to make.

KeyMaster45:

CriticKitten:

KeyMaster45:
As unlikely as it is in the current environment where WoW is the only surviving subscription MMO, I really hope that Bethesda goes with and sticks with a subscription model. Otherwise TES: Online is going to be a miserable experience that I don't really want to spend my money on.

The irony, of course, being that if the game is Free-To-Play, you wouldn't have to spend any money on it anyways.

Actually I would as I highly doubt that Bethesda won't require you buy a game key to play initially; be it with install discs or digitally. There may be no subscription afterwards, but there is still an initial investment that I won't want to make.

Which would make it a Buy-To-Play game, not a Free-To-Play game.

CriticKitten:

KeyMaster45:

CriticKitten:
The irony, of course, being that if the game is Free-To-Play, you wouldn't have to spend any money on it anyways.

Actually I would as I highly doubt that Bethesda won't require you buy a game key to play initially; be it with install discs or digitally. There may be no subscription afterwards, but there is still an initial investment that I won't want to make.

Which would make it a Buy-To-Play game, not a Free-To-Play game.

Really? I've never heard Guild Wars or GW2 referred to as such. Matter of fact I've never heard any games referred to as that. You're either the F2P business model or the subscription model. Regardless, the model of GW2 still has the company relentlessly trying to sell you shit after you've given them money to play; which is exactly the model TES: Online is most likely going to have.

I still won't be giving Bethesda any money for it if that's the business model they plan to use.

KeyMaster45:

Really? I've never heard Guild Wars or GW2 referred to as such. Matter of fact I've never heard any games referred to as that. You're either the F2P business model or the subscription model. Regardless, the model of GW2 still has the company relentlessly trying to sell you shit after you've given them money to play; which is exactly the model TES: Online is most likely going to have.

I still won't be giving Bethesda any money for it if that's the business model they plan to use.

Having been a long-time player of the guild wars series, I cannot think of anyone who has ever said that the game is free-to-play, without having someone who actually plays the game correct them by saying it is buy-to-play.

Hell, it became a running joke of sorts in guild wars to correct people who called the game free-to-play, when it was in-fact, buy-to-play.

And having played Guild Wars 2 since it came out, i really cant say I ever felt like the company was trying to pressure me into buying shit, ever.

The only thing I'm thinking looking at this article is "Hey look, it's the next SWTOR." Why do people keep wasting their careers on making MMOs? And more specifically, who thought that having hundreds of other people running around doing random stuff is going to make the Elder Scrolls so much better?

The only MMOs I've seen that actually understand how to make the multiplayer aspect a key part of the gameplay include the old Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, and Eve Online. Every other MMO release has been this happy go lucky theme park ride that just has group activities thrown in.

In response to whether or not there were plans to release any kind of modding for The Elder Scrolls Online, Pete Hines quipped "We kinda did. It's called Skyrim It works great, use that." (Note, this wasn't addressing UI modding.)

Wait, they are releasing a multiplayer DLC for Skyrim?

From what I can gather, the newest Elder Scrolls game MMO has elements like that of an Elder Scrolls game...that's all I'm getting from that article.

Was always interested in this MMO though. Definitely gonna check it out when it comes out.

Gather:

In response to whether or not there were plans to release any kind of modding for The Elder Scrolls Online, Pete Hines quipped "We kinda did. It's called Skyrim It works great, use that." (Note, this wasn't addressing UI modding.)

Wait, they are releasing a multiplayer DLC for Skyrim?

No, it's a joke that you can mod in Skyrim.

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