Zero Punctuation: Tomb Raider

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Marik Bentusi:
But even in the very beginning she decided to send the expedition to the island of doom
then she decides to save everyone and stuff

deosn't she?

That said, this installment didn't feel as Tomb Raid-y to me as I'd like and didn't feel as survivalist as it was advertised. Tombs are just some side-missions and puzzles really basic, most is about shooting hundreds of people with a bit of mystery in the background.

So kind of an inversion of what I was hoping for. The actual shooting wasn't bad tho.

This^ Haven't played it yet, but not in the mood to fork over $60 for a not bad shooter. Will probably pick up when real cheap.

Mike Fang:
Yahtzee's point about reactionary characters being difficult to describe as having a story arc is a legit point. If you're left with the impression that they did things only because they had to, not because they chose to, then there's not that much changing about their personality, motives, point of view, etc.

On the other hand, the problem is that there's rarely any middle ground anymore when it comes to reactionary/proactive characters. By that I mean that people at large seem to have this very jaded, cynical (and yes, I know that describes Yahtzee in a nutshell) viewpoint about fictional character motives. If a character tries to do something out of a sense of morality or honor, they quickly get the "morkishly virtuous" label stamped on them and are quickly dismissed as the ridiculously stalwart paladin-types who will charge blithely into a dangerous situation that any "sensible" person would know better than to mess with because anyone with two brain cells to rub together would see they're not going to win this particular fight charging in head-on. On the other hand, the "sensible" characters often act like self-centered, emo jack asses who will only begrudgingly do something that requires sacrifice or risk on their part with no immediately apparent reward, usually just to get the crowbared-in love interests to stop whining at them and get their tits out.

That, to me, seems to be the two types of protagonists we have to chose from these days: either the brave idiot or the smart coward. To tell the truth, sometimes I'm not sure if its because that's just how all protagonists are being viewed, or how they're being written these days. I have to admit, sometimes it seems like the proactive protagonists act pretty damn stupid, like Vash the Stampede from Trigun, incessantly trying to reason with every bad guy even when they've got a gun to an innocent person's head, or Snow from Final Fantasy XIII, hurtling into every dangerous situation without the faintest idea what the fuck he's going to do. Seriously, where are the protagonists that balance sense with morals, like Humphrey Boggart's Sam Spade or Clint Eastwood's The Man With No Name?[/quote[quote="C117" post="6.403881.16709754"]Okay, so... another game I've already played through is getting reviewed by our beloved Yahtzee. Good review. Guess I'll give my opinion as well...

Bear in mind, this is the opinion of one who has never before played a Tomb Raider-game except Angel of Darkness, but that was so long ago I remember squat about it.

...

Hey, here's a crazy idea: why did this game need humans to shoot at anyways? Wouldn't it have been enough with, you know, wildlife? After all, you're stuck on an island in the middle of the ocean, in a place few people ever live to go through, and no hope of rescue in sight. Why the cultists? Couldn't the whole game have been about the struggles of a lone girl in a hostile environment, instead of this psychotic woman slaying a whole bunch of mad people? Surely that would negate a lot of my criticism. Just saying.

Anyway, overall this game was... meh. Aside for my intense hatred for the main character, the overall gameplay is just okay. It works, but is nothing groundbreaking. In my opinion, it is not worth shelling out 50-60 bucks for this game. If you decide to play it, wait until it goes down in price or hits a sale.

That is all.

Finally someone with an objective, thoughtful criticism of this game. I myself am quite annoyed that crystal dynamics has rebooted the series into a shooter, and from what your saying and the clips i saw, they threw in some torture/gore porn for the kiddies to lap up. People say that this is an artful and uninhibited way of showing the physical horror that Laura goes through, and how she must dig deep to overcome it. But the fact is Laura(or no one) doesn't have to get shot, beat, strangled, impaled, almost raped, etc. to become the strong confident woman back in the original tomb raider. Then the close up view of her horrible death, which is also very unnecessary to tell the story of a girl becoming a strong woman, further shows us that it's only gore/torture porn, and represents another bold move by the worlds rulers to desensitize youth as much as possible to senseless violence and mayhem.

Well, this thread sure went off-topic. The more you guys bring up the name Captain Walker, I think of this guy:
http://marvel.wikia.com/John_Walker_(Earth-616)
And he's a more stand-up guy compared to the Spec-Ops dude.

Yahtzee really didn't know what he was talking about this ZP.I've never seen him so clueless and frankly...dumb while doing a review.

Also surprising how he explicitly spoiled a great moment in SO and FC3.Good job.

No matter what Yahtzee says The new tomb raider is a fantastic game, and finally lara is more than a pair of tits attached to a human body.It's fair enough that he liked her as a pair of tits (as he states), but tyo tell others that this game sucks because they added some real character?Just no.

Also the little 'countdown timer thing'?Yeah, i saw that timer on both Lugo and Adam in Spec Ops.I knew halfway something was going to happen to both of them and it would affect walker.Walker's development is even funded down by their...things.

Yahtzee was just dumb this week.When he has nothing substantial enough to dislike about a game, he will come up with them from thin air.

SoMuchSpace:
Yahtzee really didn't know what he was talking about this ZP.I've never seen him so clueless and frankly...dumb while doing a review.

Also surprising how he explicitly spoiled a great moment in SO and FC3.Good job.

No matter what Yahtzee says The new tomb raider is a fantastic game, and finally lara is more than a pair of tits attached to a human body.It's fair enough that he liked her as a pair of tits (as he states), but tyo tell others that this game sucks because they added some real character?Just no.

Also the little 'countdown timer thing'?Yeah, i saw that timer on both Lugo and Adam in Spec Ops.I knew halfway something was going to happen to both of them and it would affect walker.Walker's development is even funded down by their...things.

Yahtzee was just dumb this week.When he has nothing substantial enough to dislike about a game, he will come up with them from thin air.

The man never gave any indication that he liked the previous tomb raider games because Laura had a pair of tits. He states she had a pair of tits, but that's not why he said he liked the games.

SoMuchSpace:
Yahtzee really didn't know what he was talking about this ZP.I've never seen him so clueless and frankly...dumb while doing a review.

SoMuchSpace:
Yahtzee was just dumb this week.When he has nothing substantial enough to dislike about a game, he will come up with them from thin air.

You know, I am really getting sick and tired of this "IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I LIKE, THEN YOU'RE A COMPLETE MORON!" mentality that always seems to crop up from the gaming community. He didn't like it. And guess what? There are other people out there that didn't like it, myself included. And those reasons are no less substantial than yours are for liking it. Deal with it!

SoMuchSpace:
No matter what Yahtzee says The new tomb raider is a fantastic game, and finally lara is more than a pair of tits attached to a human body.It's fair enough that he liked her as a pair of tits (as he states), but tyo tell others that this game sucks because they added some real character?Just no.

Funny, I already came to the conclusion of her being "more than a pair of tits attached to a human body" back in 1996 when her human body count maxed out at six. Here's a more detailed explanation I posted in another forum if you're interested.

I also find it a little amazing that I started playing Tomb Raider Anniversary yesterday just on a whim and the more I played that, the angrier I got about this game.

SoMuchSpace:
Also surprising how he explicitly spoiled a great moment in SO and FC3.Good job.

SoMuchSpace:
Also the little 'countdown timer thing'?Yeah, i saw that timer on both Lugo and Adam in Spec Ops.I knew halfway something was going to happen to both of them and it would affect walker.Walker's development is even funded down by their...things.

The most recent release of Spec Ops: The Line was June 29, 2012. I think that safely puts it under the "If you haven't seen it by now, you're not going to" category. Even so, he didn't reveal the endings to that or Far Cry 3 in a way that spoiled the overall stories to either game. We have you all here to thank for that.

bigman88:
from what your saying and the clips i saw, they threw in some torture/gore porn for the kiddies to lap up. People say that this is an artful and uninhibited way of showing the physical horror that Laura goes through, and how she must dig deep to overcome it. But the fact is Laura(or no one) doesn't have to get shot, beat, strangled, impaled, almost raped, etc. to become the strong confident woman back in the original tomb raider.

You haven't even played the game and yet you feel qualified to judge the game and its players? Fail harder please.

And it's 'Lara' not 'Laura' you dope.

bigman88:
represents another bold move by the worlds rulers to desensitize youth as much as possible to senseless violence and mayhem.

Oh noes!!! Will someone please think of the children! :O

Yuuki:
I too held off on the QTE in the "rape scene" to see how it unfolded, and turns out he was just trying to kill her just like every other murderer on the island. So the people who condemned this game (and the developers) for that scene will be feeling like a right bunch of sillies now won't they?

Yeah but who knows what he did after he choked her?

...

I thought her character arc was as believable, interesting and engaging as anakin skywalker's. Don't you just love prequels?

It still boggles my mind that these big companies haven't learned to hire a somewhat competent writer and/or game designer.

Seriously, QTE's? Where's the vision, guys?

What decisions? The game is linear, straight. As for spec ops the line and the phoso chapter....you have no choice, the devs want you to do this for their own reasons. Devs have no clue as to what the word "Choice" actually means.

Carnagath:

You, along with Spec Ops's devs, seem to be confusing real life violence with videogame violence.

No, I'm saying there's a disconnect between them, and that it's what Spec Ops is commenting on.

I thought 4.16 was going to be a reference to The Room...

goliath6711:

Funny, I already came to the conclusion of her being "more than a pair of tits attached to a human body" back in 1996 when her human body count maxed out at six. Here's a more detailed explanation I posted in another forum if you're interested.

Sir/Madam, we've never met, but I just want to say that you have beautifully summed up many of the problems I've had with not just this game, but the general development and direction of the games ever since the original. In particular this part:

Then came the release to show off Lara's new "realistic" look. Now if you're going to choose to do that, then just do it. If you're going to answer the inevitable questions that people will have about the change and why you did it, that's also fine. What you don't do is promote that on the forefront of your advertising among things that you're going to "right the wrongs" the previous games did. And then have media outlets already trumpet this as a godsend despite the fact that it doesn't have any impact on the game itself. All it succeeds in doing is alienating myself as a previous fan by making me look like the only reason I'm a fan is because of the T&A factor, and I don't appreciate that.

This is what I truly hate: by saying "Lara isn't just T&A" *any more*, you're effectively vindicating the sexualisation and objectification of a character who was so much more than that, rather than treating it as a problem with the *audience,* not the *character*. It's like focusing on Princess Leia based purely on her slave attire in "Jedi" and ignoring the fact she was a leader of the Rebel Alliance. As if people were right all along to treat Lara as a sex toy, whe really, there shouldn't be any justification for reducing a character to her physique. And now we have nonsense like "Lara is finally a real character now," ignoring that she did in fact have a character, a history, a personality, beyond the cartoonish physique back in 1996. Just because the games didn't delve into deep character motivations doesn't mean they *weren't there.*

Heck, I was alienated enough back in 1996 by being a straight male who liked the game for the exploration and adventure instead of gawking at her pixellated breasts. I really resent the idea that those dumbass classmates who only played the game as a masturbatory aid were implicitly justified by the idea that classic Lara didn't have a character - and more problematically, suggesting that it was OK to view Lara as a sex object because she had large breasts and long legs, when the point is that NO ONE should be viewed as only a sex object regardless of how attractive they are.

balladbird:

GryffinDarkBreed:

His point, sir, is this blatant misandry is something we shouldn't rightly stand for or allow to happen without bringing it up with the developers. If the roles were reversed and it was a male and all he did was kill endless waves of females, the game would have been protested left and right. Was it intended to be hateful? I doubt it. This is kinda like how Resident Evil 5 wasn't intentionally racist against African people. It just needs to be pointed out to the developers that they need to keep this stuff in mind. Maybe sprinkle in a few female baddies in here and there.

A valid argument, but it's not really fair to condemn Tomb Raider for it, because the sin's not really this game's. It's one of the most prevalent double standards in video games in general (and pop culture, for that matter.) Mooks will always be male. gender diversity in a faceless army is nigh nonexistent. Likewise, any instance of a lead character killing a female character will always be a point of high emotion, because killing a woman is inherently "worse" or more immoral than killing a man. There are alterations, but they're few and far between.

it's even a tv trope: "Men are generic, women are special"

the only reason it seems to be an issue for people in this game is because the lead is a female. While there may be misandrist overtones in the narrative itself, since misandry is the first thing mistaken for feminism by action movies (second to sadism, a' la "I spit on your grave,) the fact that Lara is fighting armies of exclusively male mooks in a video game isn't misandrist, it's just a video game standard, with the only difference being the gender of the person doing the killing.

You seem to have missed the story point that there can't be female mooks, because all the women on the island will have been "tested" for the end-of-plot-event. Beyond that, nigh on every person on the island has been brought there by shipwreck, and merchant shipping is still primarily a male-dominated career.

That brings up my one huge issue with the game - it's just TOO gory! By which I mean the level of background gore is so over-the-top as to prevent normal suspension of disbelief.

The are literally thousands of (dismembered) cadavers on the island, in some cases just sitting in piles near the living quarters. Where the heck did all these people come from? How is anybody left alive on the island with disease-ridden, festering corpses on every doorstep? How can Lara not die with a horrific, feverish infection after walking through what can be described as dead-body-slurry with open wounds?

This is another thing we can compare to Spec Ops: Tomb Raider, a game about an adventurer lost on an island, is more gory than a game about war crimes.

CD seriously need to tone it down, because a game where Lara is able to push a stack of floating disembodied heads down a river of blood to get to where she's going ceases to be threatening and goes way too far into the territory of ridiculousness.

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